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Star Trek: Amok Rhyme

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Posts

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User, Moderator mod
    yeah I don't know what is with star trek writers and wanting to do awful things to Troi all the time because she's an empath

    it's gross and also the worst

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Winky wrote: »
    I just heard that Data is coming back in Picard!

    This is currently unsubstantiated. Stand by for confirming evidence.

    If he, or anyone besides Beverly Crusher, Q, or Vash, appears on Picard but doesn't call him "Captain," it's going to be kind of weird.

    Auralynx on
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    yeah I don't know what is with star trek writers and wanting to do awful things to Troi all the time because she's an empath

    it's gross and also the worst

    It’s an easy way to do some violence without hiring stuntmen. Plus empath magic lets you use it whenever you want, as opposed to having to setup a specific set of circumstances.

    There’s a lot of reasons to use it if you’re a writer, just that most of those reasons are lazy or using shortcuts.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.

    Minor nitpick:
    His name is B4. As in, the android before Lore and Data.

    Yes, it's stupid, but so is most of the film.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I wouldn't mind a character swap if he's more like tv show Data and less like emotion chip goofy movie Data.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The emotion chip was a bad idea.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a character swap if he's more like tv show Data and less like emotion chip goofy movie Data.

    Eh, goofy Data is really only in Generations, and Spiner chews less and less scenery in each film.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.

    Minor nitpick:
    His name is B4. As in, the android before Lore and Data.

    Yes, it's stupid, but so is most of the film.

    In the script he was B9, but that apparently ran into copyright issues over another sci-fi robot with that name?

  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    I'm glad Nemesis was the last TNG movie because it makes it easier to pretend it never happened.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.

    Minor nitpick:
    His name is B4. As in, the android before Lore and Data.

    Yes, it's stupid, but so is most of the film.

    In the script he was B9, but that apparently ran into copyright issues over another sci-fi robot with that name?

    God, that's actually an even worse play on words.

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.

    Minor nitpick:
    His name is B4. As in, the android before Lore and Data.

    Yes, it's stupid, but so is most of the film.

    In the script he was B9, but that apparently ran into copyright issues over another sci-fi robot with that name?

    God, that's actually an even worse play on words.

    His first name was To'taly.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    Wasn't Nemesis the one where the director was frequently a huge dick to LeVar Burton for no reason?

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I think Nemesis is OK if you fast forward past the mind-rape stuff and pretend Lore never existed. Then it's an average TNG episode with a big budget.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Wasn't Nemesis the one where the director was frequently a huge dick to LeVar Burton for no reason?

    Wow, I read up on that. Baird (the director) repeatedly called LeVar "Laverne" and thought Geordi was an alien. And the director refused to watch any TNG episodes.

    Fuck that guy.

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.
    calling it now:
    B4 uploads Data's consciousness into his brain, and becomes an entirely new consciousness that is a mix of B4 and Data

    and then Admiral Janeway kills him

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Wasn't Nemesis the one where the director was frequently a huge dick to LeVar Burton for no reason?

    Wow, I read up on that. Baird (the director) repeatedly called LeVar "Laverne" and thought Geordi was an alien. And the director refused to watch any TNG episodes.

    Fuck that guy.

    Also, at the time, that director's experience was mostly as an editor, with a couple of middle of the road films as a director. Whereas at the time, LeVar was (and still is) on the board of the Directors Guild of America.

  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    We should have a recurring theme where Admiral Janeway kills off any characters who could become interesting in their cradles.

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    New series: Star Trek: Admiral Janeway's Rampage

    aebbdflk47rj.png

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User, Moderator mod
    John Wick 5: Admiral Janeway's Return

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative: violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."

  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    Nah, Lore got killed off during the series. If he was still alive, Data wouldn't have his emotion chip, which Lore stole before killing their creator. This is also a reason why Data was somewhat reluctant to install the emotion chip because it resulted in Lore becoming a psychopath and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have similar negative impacts on Data.

    If they wanted another one of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids, they had to create a new one.

  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    Nah, Lore got killed off during the series. If he was still alive, Data wouldn't have his emotion chip, which Lore stole before killing their creator. This is also a reason why Data was somewhat reluctant to install the emotion chip because it resulted in Lore becoming a psychopath and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have similar negative impacts on Data.

    If they wanted another one of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids, they had to create a new one.

    On the other hand, Lore is exactly the sort of villain to have created a backup of himself.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    Nah, Lore got killed off during the series. If he was still alive, Data wouldn't have his emotion chip, which Lore stole before killing their creator. This is also a reason why Data was somewhat reluctant to install the emotion chip because it resulted in Lore becoming a psychopath and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have similar negative impacts on Data.

    If they wanted another one of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids, they had to create a new one.

    He was not. He was deactivated. As far as anything the show showed he simply needs to be turned back on.

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    There's the root of some interesting ideas in Into Darkness too, but in both films all the ideas are left half thought out and tangled together into a mess that serves no purpose but to fill time between TWoK scene A and TWoK scene B.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Zach and I have been making our way through the Greatest Generation podcast. Currently on the start of season 2 of ds9. Vichy France guy is definitely my favorite new character.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Wasn't Nemesis the one where the director was frequently a huge dick to LeVar Burton for no reason?

    Wow, I read up on that. Baird (the director) repeatedly called LeVar "Laverne" and thought Geordi was an alien. And the director refused to watch any TNG episodes.

    Fuck that guy.

    Also, at the time, that director's experience was mostly as an editor, with a couple of middle of the road films as a director. Whereas at the time, LeVar was (and still is) on the board of the Directors Guild of America.

    Yeah, I think that guy directed US Marshall’s, the entirely unnecessary spinoff of The Fugitive. That movie is... well... I recall there being a scene that flash backed to a previous one that happened practically 5 minutes earlier because they thought we were too stupid to understand why RDJ was obviously the villain of the piece. It was so, so bad.

    Luscious Sounds Spotify Playlist

    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Another interesting note from binge watching: there's two major Bashir "reveals" that literally occur back to back.

    One episode he's apparently been a changeling for ... some amount of time. Literally the next episode he's also a superman. Frankly, neither of them really land well. And both feel, and according to Memory Alpha were, last-second retcons.

    The changeling thing only really makes imo assuming it happened like 1 episode before. Since nothing about previous episodes makes him feel like he's not Bashir, nor does it quite make sense. Given we have no idea what amount of time passes between most episodes, I figure we can roll with that. It's a cute little reveal but it ends up discarded like minutes worth of screentime later so it ultimately doesn't amount to much meaningful. It does a good job of motivating the plot of that specific 2-parter and that's it.

    The genetic engineering reveal is just ... very whatever on it's own. And just completely does not make sense with previous stuff with the character and thus really really feels like a retcon.

  • GimGim a tall glass of water Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Zach and I have been making our way through the Greatest Generation podcast. Currently on the start of season 2 of ds9. Vichy France guy is definitely my favorite new character.

    I want Kevin Uxbridge to deliver the eulogy at my funeral.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    VO only or full blown de-aging CGI protocol engaged.

    Actually, it would be awesome if Data deliberately had himself refitted to look more “aged” as he got older, in a further attempt to experience what it’s like to be human.
    You can't get older if you're dead. I wonder what the conceit will be. B9 was a bucket of bolts but we've seen consciousness transfer before so maybe they'll retcon it.

    Better yet ignore Nemesis because it's a garbage movie that isn't worth watching even when it's free.

    Minor nitpick:
    His name is B4. As in, the android before Lore and Data.

    Yes, it's stupid, but so is most of the film.

    In the original script it was B9, as in he was benign. They changed it while shooting because they couldn't put anything remotely clever into the movie. sigh.

    edit - whoops didn't realize this was already replied to

    Hardtarget on
    steam_sig.png
  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    Nah, Lore got killed off during the series. If he was still alive, Data wouldn't have his emotion chip, which Lore stole before killing their creator. This is also a reason why Data was somewhat reluctant to install the emotion chip because it resulted in Lore becoming a psychopath and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have similar negative impacts on Data.

    If they wanted another one of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids, they had to create a new one.

    On the other hand, Lore is exactly the sort of villain to have created a backup of himself.

    I could see that.
    shryke wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    Nah, Lore got killed off during the series. If he was still alive, Data wouldn't have his emotion chip, which Lore stole before killing their creator. This is also a reason why Data was somewhat reluctant to install the emotion chip because it resulted in Lore becoming a psychopath and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have similar negative impacts on Data.

    If they wanted another one of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids, they had to create a new one.

    He was not. He was deactivated. As far as anything the show showed he simply needs to be turned back on.

    I went and checked, seems like he was disassembled (now I'm reminded of short circuit). I know Star Fleet has it's far share of incompetence, but wouldn't be surprised if some on the Enterprise saw to it that he couldn't be reassembled without Data's aid.

    I think Lore backup copy or an android build by lore probably would have worked better. Either way, would have worked better than what Nemesis gave us. Though it sounds like they had a shit director that shouldn't have been allowed to manage things. I know I wouldn't tolerate a director that refuses to watch stuff that is in a franchise. I wouldn't tolerate an excuse on that, even the whole "but I don't want my creative thought process to be constrain by established expectations" because a franchise like Star Trek pretty much has expectations that people need to work within.

    Anyways, I just hope they pretend Nemesis didn't happen. Upside is it wasn't nearly as bad as Star Trek The Motion Picture, which I think has be chucked out of the cannon.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    TMP is fine. It's slow and some bits don't work but it's the most SF movie of the movies and captures a sense of wonder brilliantly. I dunno what could be gained by removing it from canon.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    TMP had about zero impact on the setting, so you could remove it or say it happened twice and it'd make no difference. I wasn't a huge fan of it, but it wasn't as disruptive for no good reason as Nemesis. If you're going to give the Romulans a slave race, wipe out their government and then kill Data, you better be doing something good with that.
    evilbob wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I actually think Nemesis had some really interesting ideas, but just executed so so terribly. And for no discernible reasons in some case.

    Like, secret Picard clone that grew up different and acts as a dark mirror to the man we know. Ok, this can work. Hell, the established descriptions of his past make this sound totally legit. A Picard who never learned discipline and control, especially a much younger one, works.

    Then you mirror that with a similar Data storyline. Except ... you invent a new android? What? Lore is right fucking there.

    Like, right there, that's a solid basis for a good movie. You can make that shit work. But it just felt like no one cared.

    There's the root of some interesting ideas in Into Darkness too, but in both films all the ideas are left half thought out and tangled together into a mess that serves no purpose but to fill time between TWoK scene A and TWoK scene B.

    What Starfleet would do when faced with an existential threat from a superior foe is something that's been done with the Borg and Dominion. Having the events of the Trek reboot kick off the standard 'things are dangerous out there, we must be more dangerous' thinking was the easy option. A better direction for them to go in would have been to use the fact that Nero's crew had (as far as I can remember) trashed the hell out of the Klingons and Starfleet fleets, and I think had murderized a bunch of Romulans too. That gives you the three major powers who have all had their militaries massively weakened, which could be used as motivation for the three major powers to join in some sort of vague alliance. Basically instead of WoK, riff on the Trek with Shakespeare. It might not be great, but it'd certainly be better than thawing out Khan to build a really big ship to start a war with the Klingons. If they really needed an admiral to do something TOS related with weapons and stupidity, the Planet Killer neutronium ice cream cone is right there.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I am not a fan of the Borg

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I am not a fan of the Borg

    Remember Wolf 359

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I am however a fan of

    Picard being stuck in a shuttle with Wesley for several hours

    And I guess this weird race of aliens who appear to be too stupid to tie their own shoes let alone master space travel

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Dan you're gonna get jacked by all the space grifters

    Happiness is within reach!
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Agrarian Irish Planet

    Yesssssss

    And of course Riker meets a smoking-hot Colleen

    knitdan on
    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Oh god a “Troi’s Mom” episode

    Kill me now

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    I completely turned around on my opinion of Lwaxana on my last rewatch. She's usually excellent value and inspires in Picard reactions we see no one else provoke. Seeing Picard peek out of his cabin to make sure she's not lying in wait is delightful.

This discussion has been closed.