In general trying to take out both legs without precision shots is fairly hard. Firing from the front is no-no, you'll blow their CT far before their legs go. Firing from the side often works but even then you usually damage CT enough that destroying both legs without coring the mech is tricky. It gets a lot easier in urban maps if they jump to the top of a building so you can destroy that and knock them down to damage both legs, but that only works in that one map type and only for mechs that have stock JJs.
Black Knights are decent, but IMO not worth the trouble of save-scumming for full salvage. Your first Orion? Sure. A Cataphract? Maybe. But a Black Knight? Ehhhhhh...
The pure energy loadout limits its usefulness since you'll invariably end up being heat-limited.
Between a Trebuchet or a Black Knight, I'd go for the Black Knight. But I wouldn't kill myself trying to get it.
I dunno, I think BLKs are pretty great. Sure, it's pure energy, but it also punches like a freight train (and can carry three support weapons). Swap the PPC for another LL, max the SLs, adjust MLs and armor to taste and you have a pretty nasty disco brawler with a massive short range alpha that can cool down afterward by slapping a fool.
Black Knights are decent, but IMO not worth the trouble of save-scumming for full salvage. Your first Orion? Sure. A Cataphract? Maybe. But a Black Knight? Ehhhhhh...
The pure energy loadout limits its usefulness since you'll invariably end up being heat-limited.
Between a Trebuchet or a Black Knight, I'd go for the Black Knight. But I wouldn't kill myself trying to get it.
I dunno, I think BLKs are pretty great. Sure, it's pure energy, but it also punches like a freight train (and can carry three support weapons). Swap the PPC for another LL, max the SLs, adjust MLs and armor to taste and you have a pretty nasty disco brawler with a massive short range alpha that can cool down afterward by slapping a fool.
One of those support weapon slots are in the head, so you probably don't want to use that hardpoint. Also one energy hardpoint is there, which leaves you with 7 - could go full discoball with 7 MLs and 2 SLs. That's 96 heat but it leaves you with like 20 tons free for heatsinks, heat exchangers and/or heat banks so all that heat is not a problem. I'd rather have a Grasshopper but it's not a bad build.
Black Knights are decent, but IMO not worth the trouble of save-scumming for full salvage. Your first Orion? Sure. A Cataphract? Maybe. But a Black Knight? Ehhhhhh...
The pure energy loadout limits its usefulness since you'll invariably end up being heat-limited.
Between a Trebuchet or a Black Knight, I'd go for the Black Knight. But I wouldn't kill myself trying to get it.
I dunno, I think BLKs are pretty great. Sure, it's pure energy, but it also punches like a freight train (and can carry three support weapons). Swap the PPC for another LL, max the SLs, adjust MLs and armor to taste and you have a pretty nasty disco brawler with a massive short range alpha that can cool down afterward by slapping a fool.
One of those support weapon slots are in the head, so you probably don't want to use that hardpoint. Also one energy hardpoint is there, which leaves you with 7 - could go full discoball with 7 MLs and 2 SLs. That's 96 heat but it leaves you with like 20 tons free for heatsinks, heat exchangers and/or heat banks so all that heat is not a problem. I'd rather have a Grasshopper but it's not a bad build.
You don't really have access to a lot of head mods when you're transitioning from mediums to heavies. The 3rd SL likely has no opportunity cost at that point in your career/campaign. My point was more that a BLK is a huge upgrade over any medium (except the Royal Griffin, of course) and arguably a better brawler than any other heavy but an Orion.
And yeah, a Grasshopper is evergreen and more valuable long term, but if you're using it as a brawler then you're probably doing it wrong.
Look. Just tell me how quickly during each melee it loses both arms and a leg.
>.>
Hmm, two turns? In a hot biome, I'd get my tankiest mech close enough to into tempting it into an alpha strike, which will hopefully get it hot enough that it can't do that again for at least a couple of turns. If the biome isn't hot, I'd use an LRM bot to get it unstable before running my best meleer in to punch it.
Look. Just tell me how quickly during each melee it loses both arms and a leg.
>.>
Hmm, two turns? In a hot biome, I'd get my tankiest mech close enough to into tempting it into an alpha strike, which will hopefully get it hot enough that it can't do that again for at least a couple of turns. If the biome isn't hot, I'd use an LRM bot to get it unstable before running my best meleer in to punch it.
John Cleese frowns in your general direction.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
Got it! It took a bit of luck, but I also changed my strat slightly and it worked out. Now I'm playing around with loadouts. Going to start with 3*LL, 2*ML, 2*SL.
Going to try no jump jets and see if I can still move fast enough to get into close range and start lighting people up.
I think I'm going to farm up at least one more solid mech before trying the next story mission.
I'm going to try and get to the dropship tonight on time. Not sure since there are two enemy lances in my way, but will radio if I manage to get there in time.
Aka, I may have some real life things to take care of and might not make it in time. Will post here if I manage to get online.
Before I shut the game down last time in BT, I watched a couple of vids by Baradul and did some quick system travel, and managed to pick up the final piece for a Quickdraw. Baradul had his set up as a SRM/MLaser bruiser, so both it and the Black Knight will likely replace the Wolverine and Shadowhawk as my brawlers.
The Shadowhawk is way too good to keep on the sideline for now, so I'm debating having either it, or one of the heavies above take the place of my Dragon (AC/missile "sniper") since I'm not happy with the Dragon anyway. You can't get enough armor on it!
Goal for my next sessions is to find my first Orion or possibly a Catapult before moving on with the next story mission.
Before I shut the game down last time in BT, I watched a couple of vids by Baradul and did some quick system travel, and managed to pick up the final piece for a Quickdraw. Baradul had his set up as a SRM/MLaser bruiser, so both it and the Black Knight will likely replace the Wolverine and Shadowhawk as my brawlers.
Quickdraw is a lot worse than either Wolverine or a Shadowhawk. It doesn't even have Dragon's big melee attack. Just because a mech is heavier doesn't make it better.
In BT the 60 ton heavies suffer under the initiative system. Barely any better than 55 ton mediums but an activation slower when it matters.
They work okay as tanks for early engagement while your workhorse mediums get the job done though, just maximize armor and use medium lasers as primary armament, at least until you can trade up to an Orion.
Hm. Maybe I'll let the Quickdraw sit on the sideline for now, then. In the short term, the LL/ML/SL setup for the Knight can still fill that "midrange" role while being a third brawler in a pinch. I'd rather not lose AC and additional LRMs for their stability effects, but if I'm only using the Knight for a short time, I can make it work.
In BT the 60 ton heavies suffer under the initiative system. Barely any better than 55 ton mediums but an activation slower when it matters.
They work okay as tanks for early engagement while your workhorse mediums get the job done though, just maximize armor and use medium lasers as primary armament, at least until you can trade up to an Orion.
They also lack the innate avoidance bonus mediums get, which (along with the vulnerability of slower initiative) makes them more fragile than the 55 tonners. So they aren't even that great for tanking for your lance - you'd have about as much success using a Vindicator for that role.
0
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
In BT the 60 ton heavies suffer under the initiative system. Barely any better than 55 ton mediums but an activation slower when it matters.
They work okay as tanks for early engagement while your workhorse mediums get the job done though, just maximize armor and use medium lasers as primary armament, at least until you can trade up to an Orion.
In general the 60 ton heavies are worse than the 55 ton mediums. Worse initiative, slower, heavier jump jets, and all of 1 ton more free.
I personally don't bother with the heavies until I can get my hands on a decent 70 or 75 ton one.
I was successful with Quickdraws for early tanking, but I had them on Bulwark characters and blocking in front of LRM boats. Could have probably tanked better with Shadow Hawks and Wolverines but I wasn’t happy with how builds were shaking out on those with the variants I got.
In the end, I think I only had Quickdraws for maybe 10 missions before I traded up.
In BT the 60 ton heavies suffer under the initiative system. Barely any better than 55 ton mediums but an activation slower when it matters.
They work okay as tanks for early engagement while your workhorse mediums get the job done though, just maximize armor and use medium lasers as primary armament, at least until you can trade up to an Orion.
In general the 60 ton heavies are worse than the 55 ton mediums. Worse initiative, slower, heavier jump jets, and all of 1 ton more free.
I personally don't bother with the heavies until I can get my hands on a decent 70 or 75 ton one.
I'm a "Grasshopper is the only heavy I use" guy myself but I wouldn't tell a newbie that the 65 tonners suck. They have a lot of room for weapons/armor/heatsinks so if all you want is a slow mech bristling with guns they do ok. As long as they don't try using stock Jaegermechs, those things seriously need more armor and a new loadout before they are battle-worthy.
Not gonna lie, I was pretty astonished the first time I tried to outfit a Dragon and "Max Armor" didn't even get it half way there. All of a sudden, the comments about it ("the best use for a Dragon is to strip it and sell it") all made complete sense.
+3
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
+1
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Thunderbolts and Catapults are also 65 tons, so I guess I need to lower it to 65 tons or bust for the heavies.
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
Yeah, a Jager A is a better LRM bot than a Catapult, and the Jager S works surprisingly well as "Baby's First AC/20 Brawler".
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
0
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
I prefer up-armoring them and changing their loadout. At least get rid of those AC/2s and replace with a third AC/5, if not a pair of AC/10s or a single AC/20. Stock Jaegers get smashed up too easily and have a fairly weight-inefficient loadout.
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
I prefer up-armoring them and changing their loadout. At least get rid of those AC/2s and replace with a third AC/5, if not a pair of AC/10s or a single AC/20. Stock Jaegers get smashed up too easily and have a fairly weight-inefficient loadout.
I don't disagree, but if you do manage to snag one that early in the campaign, you also may not have that equipment lying around yet to make those changes.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
I prefer up-armoring them and changing their loadout. At least get rid of those AC/2s and replace with a third AC/5, if not a pair of AC/10s or a single AC/20. Stock Jaegers get smashed up too easily and have a fairly weight-inefficient loadout.
I don't disagree, but if you do manage to snag one that early in the campaign, you also may not have that equipment lying around yet to make those changes.
The least you can do is to remove an AC2 and add armor, you don't need any extra equipment for that. That's 480 more armor already. Or remove AC2 and add jump jets and 160 armor, that works too - getting to good sniping positions without JJs is usually a huge pain in the ass.
That's a good point, a reworked Jaegermech is a solid machine. And generally will available fairly early since you can get your hands on parts from an early story mission.
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
I prefer up-armoring them and changing their loadout. At least get rid of those AC/2s and replace with a third AC/5, if not a pair of AC/10s or a single AC/20. Stock Jaegers get smashed up too easily and have a fairly weight-inefficient loadout.
I don't disagree, but if you do manage to snag one that early in the campaign, you also may not have that equipment lying around yet to make those changes.
The least you can do is to remove an AC2 and add armor, you don't need any extra equipment for that. That's 480 more armor already. Or remove AC2 and add jump jets and 160 armor, that works too - getting to good sniping positions without JJs is usually a huge pain in the ass.
Yeah, in my (very, very limited) experience with the game, the AC2 is the worst weapon available. It's only selling point: huge range, is difficult to actually utilize when you have to have line of sight to your target, both between the shooter and the spotter mech. And that takes half your lance up in order to plink away with 2 damage for 6 tons (plus ammo). Sure, you're plinking from the other side of the map (LoS permitting), but it's still plinking. I got much better results for long range fighting with LRMs.
Drop both the AC/2s and the ammo, up armor like a boss, then make sure you've got enough ammo to keep your AC/5s firing. If you've got space, jump jets for positioning. I think it might have some additional energy hardpoints you could make use of as well?
I don't think Thursdays are going to work out very well for me, but late Friday nights definitely will, I'll very likely be on for a bit tomorrow night (probably around midnight EST)
I don't think Thursdays are going to work out very well for me, but late Friday nights definitely will, I'll very likely be on for a bit tomorrow night (probably around midnight EST)
Could have two nights of Oosik Drops to catch all of the Oosiks. We'll just make you the drop commander for Friday nights.
@Nips started the whole Thursday Night Oosik Drop a while ago and it fit with my schedule. So I kept it going after he had to watch over the future of the Oosiks.
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
I just traded a Hunchback and an Orion (no pilots killed though, got lucky and they're just out for 6 thousand days instead) for a King Crab I headshotted early in the mission and now I feel bad. Even worse my Orion was taken out by the very last enemy mech's very last weapon right before I was able to kill it.
Oh and every valuable and rare laser I had was on the HBK.
Edit: it was the first 4 skull battle I've played on this Ironman playthrough and it immediately put me up against 2 full lance's of assault's and heavies. By the end of the thing I had a single Banshee with an AC-10 and a Catapult that could do nothing but kick to finish the enemy off with.
I just traded a Hunchback and an Orion (no pilots killed though, got lucky and they're just out for 6 thousand days instead) for a King Crab I headshotted early in the mission and now I feel bad. Even worse my Orion was taken out by the very last enemy mech's very last weapon right before I was able to kill it.
Oh and every valuable and rare laser I had was on the HBK.
Edit: it was the first 4 skull battle I've played on this Ironman playthrough and it immediately put me up against 2 full lance's of assault's and heavies. By the end of the thing I had a single Banshee with an AC-10 and a Catapult that could do nothing but kick to finish the enemy off with.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I meant specifically the Orion. Hunchbacks are a dime a dozen.
OK that was a bit more fun. Rejiggered my lance a bit to give it a run. Dragon with AC/10 and MLs, Black Knight with 2*LL, 4*ML, 2*SL; typical Shadowhawk setup; and Centurion with PPC and LRM5+LRM10. Worked out much better. The lance is a bit slower than I'd like, but they can all take some hard hits and keep dishing out the damage. I'm going to try to use this setup for the story mission, and see how things go.
Took them on a trial mission and got enough XP for my second pilot with Breaching Shot. It's the same pilot that managed to luck into a headshot on the test mission(!) so I'm quite happy.
Depending on how things fare in the story mission, and if I can decide whether I want to bring in a catapult as my PPC+LRM boat, this may be the gateway to 2.5 skull missions and some more heavies to salvage.
Mugsley on
+2
Options
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
Turns out I was mistaken. It wasn't my Orion, it was my god damned Banshee and my Orion had to fend off the last mechs with an AC10.
Here is my lance as it stands currently. I'm just sort of winging it:
King Crab with 2 AC20 LLaser and LRM 10, took out the other stock stuff to add more AC20 ammo
Orion with basically stock stuff (I just replaced the standard stuff with ++ versions)
PPC Version of Catapult, currently stock
LRM version of Catapult, 2 LRM20++ and 2 small lasers.
R8 my lance, what should I be replacing? Sometimes I swap out the PPC catapult with an Urbie or a Commando if I need a scout. I can put down some pretty heavy mechs super fast with this lance, but my heat management is abysmal, I already know I'm not optimizing my Lance's setup correctly.
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
My standard operating procedure is to stuff anAC/20 with 3 tons of ammo into anything that can fit it, add an SRM6, and shove a large laser or a couple mediums and as many heat sinks as I can fit. Shooting for high armor as well because I brawl.
2x AC20 is perfect for those 100 ton mechs.
For weapons fit consider your per turn heat buildup. A weapon does you no good if it’s not capable of being fired because you are at heat cap, unless meleeing regularly is part of your plans (it isn’t for me because aimed shots plus heavy weapons means I’ll do much more damage as long as I can keep firing).
But I have all my pilots built around that kind of weapons for. Bulwark, multishot, and evenly split between breaching shot and coolant vent. The other abilities are handy, but not as handy for my play style.
0
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
And of course tactics 9 all around as soon as both abilities have been selected.
Posts
I dunno, I think BLKs are pretty great. Sure, it's pure energy, but it also punches like a freight train (and can carry three support weapons). Swap the PPC for another LL, max the SLs, adjust MLs and armor to taste and you have a pretty nasty disco brawler with a massive short range alpha that can cool down afterward by slapping a fool.
One of those support weapon slots are in the head, so you probably don't want to use that hardpoint. Also one energy hardpoint is there, which leaves you with 7 - could go full discoball with 7 MLs and 2 SLs. That's 96 heat but it leaves you with like 20 tons free for heatsinks, heat exchangers and/or heat banks so all that heat is not a problem. I'd rather have a Grasshopper but it's not a bad build.
You don't really have access to a lot of head mods when you're transitioning from mediums to heavies. The 3rd SL likely has no opportunity cost at that point in your career/campaign. My point was more that a BLK is a huge upgrade over any medium (except the Royal Griffin, of course) and arguably a better brawler than any other heavy but an Orion.
And yeah, a Grasshopper is evergreen and more valuable long term, but if you're using it as a brawler then you're probably doing it wrong.
>.>
Hmm, two turns? In a hot biome, I'd get my tankiest mech close enough to into tempting it into an alpha strike, which will hopefully get it hot enough that it can't do that again for at least a couple of turns. If the biome isn't hot, I'd use an LRM bot to get it unstable before running my best meleer in to punch it.
John Cleese frowns in your general direction.
Going to try no jump jets and see if I can still move fast enough to get into close range and start lighting people up.
I think I'm going to farm up at least one more solid mech before trying the next story mission.
Aka, I may have some real life things to take care of and might not make it in time. Will post here if I manage to get online.
Steam: betsuni7
The Shadowhawk is way too good to keep on the sideline for now, so I'm debating having either it, or one of the heavies above take the place of my Dragon (AC/missile "sniper") since I'm not happy with the Dragon anyway. You can't get enough armor on it!
Goal for my next sessions is to find my first Orion or possibly a Catapult before moving on with the next story mission.
Quickdraw is a lot worse than either Wolverine or a Shadowhawk. It doesn't even have Dragon's big melee attack. Just because a mech is heavier doesn't make it better.
They work okay as tanks for early engagement while your workhorse mediums get the job done though, just maximize armor and use medium lasers as primary armament, at least until you can trade up to an Orion.
They also lack the innate avoidance bonus mediums get, which (along with the vulnerability of slower initiative) makes them more fragile than the 55 tonners. So they aren't even that great for tanking for your lance - you'd have about as much success using a Vindicator for that role.
In general the 60 ton heavies are worse than the 55 ton mediums. Worse initiative, slower, heavier jump jets, and all of 1 ton more free.
I personally don't bother with the heavies until I can get my hands on a decent 70 or 75 ton one.
In the end, I think I only had Quickdraws for maybe 10 missions before I traded up.
I'm a "Grasshopper is the only heavy I use" guy myself but I wouldn't tell a newbie that the 65 tonners suck. They have a lot of room for weapons/armor/heatsinks so if all you want is a slow mech bristling with guns they do ok. As long as they don't try using stock Jaegermechs, those things seriously need more armor and a new loadout before they are battle-worthy.
Yeah, a Jager A is a better LRM bot than a Catapult, and the Jager S works surprisingly well as "Baby's First AC/20 Brawler".
They do need changes against heavies and above, but even getting that stock Jagermech early will work fine against mediums and lights if you hold it back and utilize its long range to avoid return fire.
I prefer up-armoring them and changing their loadout. At least get rid of those AC/2s and replace with a third AC/5, if not a pair of AC/10s or a single AC/20. Stock Jaegers get smashed up too easily and have a fairly weight-inefficient loadout.
I don't disagree, but if you do manage to snag one that early in the campaign, you also may not have that equipment lying around yet to make those changes.
The least you can do is to remove an AC2 and add armor, you don't need any extra equipment for that. That's 480 more armor already. Or remove AC2 and add jump jets and 160 armor, that works too - getting to good sniping positions without JJs is usually a huge pain in the ass.
Yeah, in my (very, very limited) experience with the game, the AC2 is the worst weapon available. It's only selling point: huge range, is difficult to actually utilize when you have to have line of sight to your target, both between the shooter and the spotter mech. And that takes half your lance up in order to plink away with 2 damage for 6 tons (plus ammo). Sure, you're plinking from the other side of the map (LoS permitting), but it's still plinking. I got much better results for long range fighting with LRMs.
Drop both the AC/2s and the ammo, up armor like a boss, then make sure you've got enough ammo to keep your AC/5s firing. If you've got space, jump jets for positioning. I think it might have some additional energy hardpoints you could make use of as well?
Steam: betsuni7
Could have two nights of Oosik Drops to catch all of the Oosiks. We'll just make you the drop commander for Friday nights.
@Nips started the whole Thursday Night Oosik Drop a while ago and it fit with my schedule. So I kept it going after he had to watch over the future of the Oosiks.
Steam: betsuni7
Oh and every valuable and rare laser I had was on the HBK.
Edit: it was the first 4 skull battle I've played on this Ironman playthrough and it immediately put me up against 2 full lance's of assault's and heavies. By the end of the thing I had a single Banshee with an AC-10 and a Catapult that could do nothing but kick to finish the enemy off with.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I meant specifically the Orion. Hunchbacks are a dime a dozen.
Also I sold all the other ones to avoid bankruptcy.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Mmmm....
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Took them on a trial mission and got enough XP for my second pilot with Breaching Shot. It's the same pilot that managed to luck into a headshot on the test mission(!) so I'm quite happy.
Depending on how things fare in the story mission, and if I can decide whether I want to bring in a catapult as my PPC+LRM boat, this may be the gateway to 2.5 skull missions and some more heavies to salvage.
Here is my lance as it stands currently. I'm just sort of winging it:
King Crab with 2 AC20 LLaser and LRM 10, took out the other stock stuff to add more AC20 ammo
Orion with basically stock stuff (I just replaced the standard stuff with ++ versions)
PPC Version of Catapult, currently stock
LRM version of Catapult, 2 LRM20++ and 2 small lasers.
R8 my lance, what should I be replacing? Sometimes I swap out the PPC catapult with an Urbie or a Commando if I need a scout. I can put down some pretty heavy mechs super fast with this lance, but my heat management is abysmal, I already know I'm not optimizing my Lance's setup correctly.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
2x AC20 is perfect for those 100 ton mechs.
For weapons fit consider your per turn heat buildup. A weapon does you no good if it’s not capable of being fired because you are at heat cap, unless meleeing regularly is part of your plans (it isn’t for me because aimed shots plus heavy weapons means I’ll do much more damage as long as I can keep firing).
But I have all my pilots built around that kind of weapons for. Bulwark, multishot, and evenly split between breaching shot and coolant vent. The other abilities are handy, but not as handy for my play style.