Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I dunno, I feel like referencing child rape and genocide in the context of a broader discussion around the amalgamations of cultures and histories, perhaps more specifically those referenced by the Dothraki, and then being told, "Well the average age of marriage during 15th Century Europe was 25" is just not relevant. Maybe that's just me.
Even if we were talking specifically about the marriages of the Lannisters vs. the marriages of the Lancasters, I'm fairly certain that you would see a number of historical examples of what we would consider to be underage children being forced to marry in order to secure bloodlines and political alliances. So the average age of marriage for some peasant farmer or city dweller in Paris at the time is not even relevant in the context of the types of fictionalized Westerosi marriages we're typically concerned with in the books.
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
It also would have made sense thematically. Ice and fire get married and lead the kingdom happily every after is a proper ending to a series entitled “a song of ice and fire”
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
I'm the one who posted the most recent news article about his new production deal.
I'm not mad at him. He can do whatever he wants. You can be disappointed about something without being angry about it.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
It also would have made sense thematically. Ice and fire get married and lead the kingdom happily every after is a proper ending to a series entitled “a song of ice and fire”
I never had the illusion that a happy ending was in the works for this material.
More likely an ending would be for it to be painful and horrible, then smashcut to 100 years in the future where still-king bran has very embellished, flowery and wildly inaccurate versions of what happened told of him and his family to the masses. The version that the Maesters will recount for generations to come will have honorable knights and a happy ending. Reality is rarely so clean.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I dunno, I feel like referencing child rape and genocide in the context of a broader discussion around the amalgamations of cultures and histories, perhaps more specifically those referenced by the Dothraki, and then being told, "Well the average age of marriage during 15th Century Europe was 25" is just not relevant. Maybe that's just me.
Even if we were talking specifically about the marriages of the Lannisters vs. the marriages of the Lancasters, I'm fairly certain that you would see a number of historical examples of what we would consider to be underage children being forced to marry in order to secure bloodlines and political alliances. So the average age of marriage for some peasant farmer or city dweller in Paris at the time is not even relevant in the context of the types of fictionalized Westerosi marriages we're typically concerned with in the books.
Or the sexual mores and practices of the past weren't quite so different from now when it comes to age of sexuality, or even rape. Marital rape only became outlawed anywhere in the US in 1975, and the 50th State to outlaw it only happened in 1993. Public opinion on whether or not something constitutes marital rape is also not particularly progressive, even now. We want the past to be more grimdark than it was in order to feel that we are more advanced and civilized than we are.
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
I'm mad at Martin for giving up on the books, but not like I'm going to fight him way or even send a tweet way. I'm mad because I'm sad I likely won't get to see him play it to the end, not mad because he owes me something. One of my best friends is a 2nd generation American and he told me he said he hated something in front of his Russian grandfather. His grandfather's response was "you don't know the meaning of hate, I hated Stalin and that was the only thing I've ever hated in my life." What I'm trying to say is thst yeah I'm mad at missing this great piece of writing that will likely never come, but more like mad in the way I feel about For, Whom the Bell Tolls. Not mad like I hate Martin like my friends grandfather hated Stalin for his genocide.
Yeah, I'm not like angry at Martin, but I do kinda feel like I got suckered for buying the books. This ties in to what I said earlier about feeling like an ending is a vital component to a story - if a series is going to go unfinished, I'd rather just not even start. It's one thing for the author to die trying to finish it like Robert Jordan, but Martin just seems like he doesn't feel like it any more.
It would also be one thing if he just came out and admitted that it was too big, too complicated, and that he doesn't feel he could possibly finish it, but I don't think he's done that. As far as I'm aware he still maintains that it will be finished.
It just looks instead like with the show ending he's wrung all the money he can out of that project, so now he's starting new projects.
It would also be one thing if he just came out and admitted that it was too big, too complicated, and that he doesn't feel he could possibly finish it, but I don't think he's done that. As far as I'm aware he still maintains that it will be finished.
It just looks instead like with the show ending he's wrung all the money he can out of that project, so now he's starting new projects.
I think he's got all the money he could possibly spend. I think he's just more excited about new projects than old ones.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I've quit lots of things I've figured out I couldn't do. You need to live your life instead of grinding away at the impossible.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Yeah exactly.
I don't think he's wrong, I'd probably do the same thing.
But I can also understand why people might look at that and think he's a jerk.
People are idiots with no empathy then.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
There is a little bit of an implied social contract when you start a series that it will eventually be finished. But it's just that - implied. At the end of the day, he's free to spend his time doing whatever he wants. To be frank, I'm sure he's spent a lot more time working on the books than people give him credit for. The problem is likely rooted in the rewriting and editing process. Given how unwieldy the last two books were, it seems pretty clear that he's struggling to finalize the narratives in a way that he is happy with. But I'm sure he has literally hundreds of pages already written. But the question is whether those are actually the final draft or if they need to be changed or replaced entirely with something else, along with what else is remaining that he has to finish.
Martin's use of PoV and specifically how he used it to suggest your opinion of characters and events and then in later books how he used it to either subvert that opinion or reinforce it was a marvel to me. There's something so messy and true to life about that technique.
While I'd prefer him to finish I know that finishing projects often sucks and I'm not gonna fault him for deciding it's not worth it. Besides, for me that PoV journey from 1-4 was well worth the investment no matter if I ever see the end
I've quit lots of things I've figured out I couldn't do. You need to live your life instead of grinding away at the impossible.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Yeah exactly.
I don't think he's wrong, I'd probably do the same thing.
But I can also understand why people might look at that and think he's a jerk.
People are idiots with no empathy then.
Naw I think that's incredibly uncharitable.
People got invested with the series and his writing. I don't think people being annoyed because he appears to have walked away from it permanently means they're idiots and have no empathy.
I mean if they're calling for his head on a pike or something ok sure but those people wouldn't just have no empathy, they'd be total assholes as well :P
I mean people seemed to hate his ending so that may be a part of it as well. Apart from a few bits that I would want to see in the book ending like Manderly etc I was happy with the ending and it seemed very appropriate with the overall arcs. We all knew Dany was going to go Mad Targ on the inside we just lost the subtle bits. We got enough in the show. Also would want to see what happened with Stoneheart but eh not major enough to make it to the show. On to the wonderful duality naturalistic magic of Wheel of Time I go.
If he doesnt finish the books its just disappointing. We are allowed to feel that.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
GRRM's ending has about as much in common with the show's ending as a picture of a boat does with an actual boat. In the middle of a storm. With a box of scraps.
I mean sure Sandersons ending of WoT is probably different than what Jordan would have done but that is because Jordans would have been 10 more books. The essence was there as he gave them.
GRRM's ending has about as much in common with the show's ending as a picture of a boat does with an actual boat. In the middle of a storm. With a box of scraps.
Yes, because the thing that doesn't (and almost certainly never will) exist is so much better than the thing that exists.
I didn't even like the ending to the TV series but at least it was an ending.
I didn't like the ending of the Black Prism series, but it was the ending I got. Claiming GRRM's ending is somehow different or superior to the show ending is,at this point, utter bullshit. He has not only not written an ending, he's a minimum of two books away at this point. Wish for a better ending all you want but the ending we got was at least based on what GRRM said the ending should be.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I never said I was wishing for a better ending. Calm down. Your projection is showing.
I, for one, believe that no ending is preferable to the ending we got. Case in point - Firefly is a beloved show that will never have a proper run or ending, but is more beloved in retrospect than Lost, which did get an "ending".
It is pretty much inarguable that the ending of the show was done so poorly that it basically destroyed the legacy of the franchise. They would've been much better off leaving things to people's imaginations than finishing things in the manner that they did.
The population that found the ending ok is not zero so its not inarguable. Only because you want it to be. I am not saying it isnt rushed and they could have added more to flesh out Dany's descent into further madness (she was one the edge throughout the series and did horrific things in the first of her name heh). But I am interjecting PoV from the books as well.
I never said I was wishing for a better ending. Calm down. Your projection is showing.
I, for one, believe that no ending is preferable to the ending we got. Case in point - Firefly is a beloved show that will never have a proper run or ending, but is more beloved in retrospect than Lost, which did get an "ending".
It is pretty much inarguable that the ending of the show was done so poorly that it basically destroyed the legacy of the franchise. They would've been much better off leaving things to people's imaginations than finishing things in the manner that they did.
"GRRM's ending has as much in common wit hthe show's ending as a picture of a boat does with an actual boat." implies that both of those things exist. And that one of them is, if not better, then at least different from the other.
I'm not sure what projection I'm meant to be showing. I thought the ending was meh but not terrible.
And HBO would have been insane to provide no ending. GoT was the show for its entire run. Saying, "Ehhh, we don't know how to end this. Sorry." would not have left the franchise in a better position.
They werent going to not finish it. With the money even the last seasons made. The Internet Historian had a good vod about changes they could have done in edits and minor revisions to make the finale good and I found it well done. But eh ill just head out have a good one. I just thought there might have been news with the rush of recent postings.
In regards to Dany's madness, I know it has become bon ton to say that you don't mind the ending, only the way they got there. However, personally I find 'society which explicitly bars women from the highest position of power because they're irrational harpies is proven completely right' to be slightly distasteful. Especially when you combine it with the strongly implied message that you can never really escape the shadow of your parents and that your genetics will inevitably determine your fate. I might be wrong about this, but nothing GRRM has written in the books so far seems to imply that we are supposed to agree with these kinds of views. Therefore, I consider it likely for the ending of the books - if the final two ever come out - to be significantly different from the show. If, for example, Daenerys would only be made to look like a 'Mad Queen' and seemingly confirm all the prejudices of a Medieval society, while in actuality she is anything but, then that would be much more in line with the sort of tragedy I expect from the world of A Song of Ice and Fire.
I'm not saying this is definitely going to be the case, but it would explain where the hacks who helmed the television show got the idea. Or perhaps I'm wrong about all of this and GRRM does intend for us to agree with sexist messaging, in which case...fuck me for thinking too highly of him, I guess?
I've quit lots of things I've figured out I couldn't do. You need to live your life instead of grinding away at the impossible.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Could also be motivation. Even if the last couple seasons were pretty bad, they still followed his outline. I could easily see not having the motivation to spend hundreds of hours writing out a better version of the same ending. Especially combined with all the new opportunities that he's presented with.
If that's the case, I just wish he'd get over himself and find an author he likes and coach him a bit to take over. He's been pretty adamant that nobody will finish the books after his death if he doesn't.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I've quit lots of things I've figured out I couldn't do. You need to live your life instead of grinding away at the impossible.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Could also be motivation. Even if the last couple seasons were pretty bad, they still followed his outline. I could easily see not having the motivation to spend hundreds of hours writing out a better version of the same ending. Especially combined with all the new opportunities that he's presented with.
If that's the case, I just wish he'd get over himself and find an author he likes and coach him a bit to take over. He's been pretty adamant that nobody will finish the books after his death if he doesn't.
It's his brainchild, so I don't begrudge him the desire to keep it his.
There seems to be this thread of ownership over his output I'm reading in many of these comments.
He doesn't owe us shit.
We don't own the IP.
Let's get over ourselves and get used to disappointment. We don't always get what we want. And if he can't be asked to do it himself, do we want someone else's shitty interpretation of his outline? That worked out so well last time.
I mean perhaps you are giving too much credit to an author who had his main heroine sold into sexual slavery at 16 but ended up loving the man with all her heart shortly after?.... and then as she plods along making some huge mistakes, and ruthlessly murdering people who get in the way, she uses her dragons as a crutch to rid herself of those mistakes by bathing people in dragonfire?.... perhaps a bit....
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
It also would have made sense thematically. Ice and fire get married and lead the kingdom happily every after is a proper ending to a series entitled “a song of ice and fire”
I was secretly hoping for this. I don't understand why, if the show runners were getting bored, that they didn't just got this route. In a way, this would be a twist better than what we got, since we weren't really expecting it.
I've quit lots of things I've figured out I couldn't do. You need to live your life instead of grinding away at the impossible.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Could also be motivation. Even if the last couple seasons were pretty bad, they still followed his outline. I could easily see not having the motivation to spend hundreds of hours writing out a better version of the same ending. Especially combined with all the new opportunities that he's presented with.
If that's the case, I just wish he'd get over himself and find an author he likes and coach him a bit to take over. He's been pretty adamant that nobody will finish the books after his death if he doesn't.
It's his brainchild, so I don't begrudge him the desire to keep it his.
There seems to be this thread of ownership over his output I'm reading in many of these comments.
He doesn't owe us shit.
We don't own the IP.
Let's get over ourselves and get used to disappointment. We don't always get what we want. And if he can't be asked to do it himself, do we want someone else's shitty interpretation of his outline? That worked out so well last time.
For sure, if we don't get anything else, fine. But at the same time, you know his estate is going to sell the rights to finish it at some point after his death, might as well have a hand in picking who will do it. Also this reflects on his legacy, maybe he doesn't care, but given his interviews, he strikes me as the kind of guy who might.
EDIT: Also the last part is a bit harsh. We're allowed to be disappointed that the series many of us love won't be finished. Just as he's well within his rights to not give us an ending, we're well within our rights to be pissed at him for doing so.
If the show writers had gone with any of the more obvious endings and it'd come out that Martin had given them some other ending the internet rage would have burned hotter than dragon fire. People gave them a lot of shit for the ending we got, but if they'd just made one up whole-cloth? Even if it had been a good ending it would have gotten mountains of shit once Martin mentioned in an interview that he had a completely different ending in mind for the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
It also would have made sense thematically. Ice and fire get married and lead the kingdom happily every after is a proper ending to a series entitled “a song of ice and fire”
I was secretly hoping for this. I don't understand why, if the show runners were getting bored, that they didn't just got this route. In a way, this would be a twist better than what we got, since we weren't really expecting it.
I mean there was no real way to have a happy ending. You have Cersei showing that drunken narcissists suck no matter. You have Jon who shows that best interests largely dont work. you have dany who will use her dragons in whatever way she needs to be it stealing a slave army or killing off a small house because they refused to kneel, etc.
For me the main line was fine all the characters had some major faults. The nightwalker line is the one that made me the most perplexed.
The single thing that absolutely drove me the most mad in the show is that Cersei faced functionally no political consequences for blowing up the Sept of Baelor. The guy who wrote that series about the Dothraki also wrote about this effectively somewhere. Said that a common flaw of modern people when reflecting on history (or people interacting with a fantasy world) is believing that people did not actually believe in their own religion. But no, that's why the Catholic faith was so strong the whole time. And say what you will about Martin, but he would not do that shit.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The single thing that absolutely drove me the most mad in the show is that Cersei faced functionally no political consequences for blowing up the Sept of Baelor. The guy who wrote that series about the Dothraki also wrote about this effectively somewhere. Said that a common flaw of modern people when reflecting on history (or people interacting with a fantasy world) is believing that people did not actually believe in their own religion. But no, that's why the Catholic faith was so strong the whole time. And say what you will about Martin, but he would not do that shit.
I can agree to this to a point. It would be interesting to see how Martin would handle the building around Cersei getting rid of all her internal enemies in one go. I imagine it would be one of his finer game plot lines.
I never said I was wishing for a better ending. Calm down. Your projection is showing.
I, for one, believe that no ending is preferable to the ending we got. Case in point - Firefly is a beloved show that will never have a proper run or ending, but is more beloved in retrospect than Lost, which did get an "ending".
It is pretty much inarguable that the ending of the show was done so poorly that it basically destroyed the legacy of the franchise. They would've been much better off leaving things to people's imaginations than finishing things in the manner that they did.
That's a pretty interesting idea. I'm not sure if I agree that no ending was better. One reason that I think Firefly is not directly comparable, is that it was a much more episodic, story focused show than GoT.
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Even if we were talking specifically about the marriages of the Lannisters vs. the marriages of the Lancasters, I'm fairly certain that you would see a number of historical examples of what we would consider to be underage children being forced to marry in order to secure bloodlines and political alliances. So the average age of marriage for some peasant farmer or city dweller in Paris at the time is not even relevant in the context of the types of fictionalized Westerosi marriages we're typically concerned with in the books.
Instead, they managed to annoy both the casual "hot show of the moment" fans AND the hardcore "whining on the internet about their favorite character being cut" fans.
The people who are mad at Martin for apparently giving up on the books are unpleasable but that doesn't mean everyone who watched the show was unpleasable. Heck, a 100% predictable "Dany and Jon live happily ever after" ending would have made more people happy (even me) than what we got.
It also would have made sense thematically. Ice and fire get married and lead the kingdom happily every after is a proper ending to a series entitled “a song of ice and fire”
I'm the one who posted the most recent news article about his new production deal.
I'm not mad at him. He can do whatever he wants. You can be disappointed about something without being angry about it.
I never had the illusion that a happy ending was in the works for this material.
More likely an ending would be for it to be painful and horrible, then smashcut to 100 years in the future where still-king bran has very embellished, flowery and wildly inaccurate versions of what happened told of him and his family to the masses. The version that the Maesters will recount for generations to come will have honorable knights and a happy ending. Reality is rarely so clean.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Or the sexual mores and practices of the past weren't quite so different from now when it comes to age of sexuality, or even rape. Marital rape only became outlawed anywhere in the US in 1975, and the 50th State to outlaw it only happened in 1993. Public opinion on whether or not something constitutes marital rape is also not particularly progressive, even now. We want the past to be more grimdark than it was in order to feel that we are more advanced and civilized than we are.
I'm mad at Martin for giving up on the books, but not like I'm going to fight him way or even send a tweet way. I'm mad because I'm sad I likely won't get to see him play it to the end, not mad because he owes me something. One of my best friends is a 2nd generation American and he told me he said he hated something in front of his Russian grandfather. His grandfather's response was "you don't know the meaning of hate, I hated Stalin and that was the only thing I've ever hated in my life." What I'm trying to say is thst yeah I'm mad at missing this great piece of writing that will likely never come, but more like mad in the way I feel about For, Whom the Bell Tolls. Not mad like I hate Martin like my friends grandfather hated Stalin for his genocide.
Finishing the books isn't impossible is the thing.
This isn't "Oh well I created just a massive and complicated story that it's literally impossible to wrap up."
It's "I wanna do other things and I already got paid so...."
Or just bored/stuck/etc.
If you've got fuck-you money, you don't have to do things that don't bring you pleasure.
Would that we all had the luxury of doing so.
Yeah exactly.
I don't think he's wrong, I'd probably do the same thing.
But I can also understand why people might look at that and think he's a jerk.
It just looks instead like with the show ending he's wrung all the money he can out of that project, so now he's starting new projects.
I think he's got all the money he could possibly spend. I think he's just more excited about new projects than old ones.
People are idiots with no empathy then.
While I'd prefer him to finish I know that finishing projects often sucks and I'm not gonna fault him for deciding it's not worth it. Besides, for me that PoV journey from 1-4 was well worth the investment no matter if I ever see the end
Naw I think that's incredibly uncharitable.
People got invested with the series and his writing. I don't think people being annoyed because he appears to have walked away from it permanently means they're idiots and have no empathy.
I mean if they're calling for his head on a pike or something ok sure but those people wouldn't just have no empathy, they'd be total assholes as well :P
If he doesnt finish the books its just disappointing. We are allowed to feel that.
It could be anything. It could even be a boat.
Yes, because the thing that doesn't (and almost certainly never will) exist is so much better than the thing that exists.
I didn't even like the ending to the TV series but at least it was an ending.
I didn't like the ending of the Black Prism series, but it was the ending I got. Claiming GRRM's ending is somehow different or superior to the show ending is,at this point, utter bullshit. He has not only not written an ending, he's a minimum of two books away at this point. Wish for a better ending all you want but the ending we got was at least based on what GRRM said the ending should be.
I, for one, believe that no ending is preferable to the ending we got. Case in point - Firefly is a beloved show that will never have a proper run or ending, but is more beloved in retrospect than Lost, which did get an "ending".
It is pretty much inarguable that the ending of the show was done so poorly that it basically destroyed the legacy of the franchise. They would've been much better off leaving things to people's imaginations than finishing things in the manner that they did.
"GRRM's ending has as much in common wit hthe show's ending as a picture of a boat does with an actual boat." implies that both of those things exist. And that one of them is, if not better, then at least different from the other.
I'm not sure what projection I'm meant to be showing. I thought the ending was meh but not terrible.
And HBO would have been insane to provide no ending. GoT was the show for its entire run. Saying, "Ehhh, we don't know how to end this. Sorry." would not have left the franchise in a better position.
I'm not saying this is definitely going to be the case, but it would explain where the hacks who helmed the television show got the idea. Or perhaps I'm wrong about all of this and GRRM does intend for us to agree with sexist messaging, in which case...fuck me for thinking too highly of him, I guess?
Could also be motivation. Even if the last couple seasons were pretty bad, they still followed his outline. I could easily see not having the motivation to spend hundreds of hours writing out a better version of the same ending. Especially combined with all the new opportunities that he's presented with.
If that's the case, I just wish he'd get over himself and find an author he likes and coach him a bit to take over. He's been pretty adamant that nobody will finish the books after his death if he doesn't.
It's his brainchild, so I don't begrudge him the desire to keep it his.
There seems to be this thread of ownership over his output I'm reading in many of these comments.
He doesn't owe us shit.
We don't own the IP.
Let's get over ourselves and get used to disappointment. We don't always get what we want. And if he can't be asked to do it himself, do we want someone else's shitty interpretation of his outline? That worked out so well last time.
I was secretly hoping for this. I don't understand why, if the show runners were getting bored, that they didn't just got this route. In a way, this would be a twist better than what we got, since we weren't really expecting it.
For sure, if we don't get anything else, fine. But at the same time, you know his estate is going to sell the rights to finish it at some point after his death, might as well have a hand in picking who will do it. Also this reflects on his legacy, maybe he doesn't care, but given his interviews, he strikes me as the kind of guy who might.
EDIT: Also the last part is a bit harsh. We're allowed to be disappointed that the series many of us love won't be finished. Just as he's well within his rights to not give us an ending, we're well within our rights to be pissed at him for doing so.
I mean there was no real way to have a happy ending. You have Cersei showing that drunken narcissists suck no matter. You have Jon who shows that best interests largely dont work. you have dany who will use her dragons in whatever way she needs to be it stealing a slave army or killing off a small house because they refused to kneel, etc.
For me the main line was fine all the characters had some major faults. The nightwalker line is the one that made me the most perplexed.
idk, given what we got as the show runners wanted to be done, I'd be ok throwing theme to the wind.
That was the problem! "Theme is for book reports" or something to that effect.
I can agree to this to a point. It would be interesting to see how Martin would handle the building around Cersei getting rid of all her internal enemies in one go. I imagine it would be one of his finer game plot lines.
That's a pretty interesting idea. I'm not sure if I agree that no ending was better. One reason that I think Firefly is not directly comparable, is that it was a much more episodic, story focused show than GoT.