Round 'ere we dont just Slay spires. Oh no. We STOMP em.
I've been talking a bit recently about how you dont need a lot of damage to win the game, you just need Enough. i think this deck was a very good example of that - 2x Deadly Poison+, 1x Poison Stab+ and a Catalyst+. Sprinkled with a Letter Opener, and later on a Mercury Hourglass, and that was all it had till it bought Bronze Scales in the a4 store. (Which turned out utterly unnecessary, 9 turn kill on the heart with minimum 5 turns of Intagible in hand still)
Net result? One of the easier victories I've had. Letter Opener + Mercury hourglass mopped up aoe fights, and the Catlasyt combo did in most other things without any real sweat - being able to be intangible for a minimum of 6 turns + stronger weak sources an a bonus dex goes far. Only fight in act three it took damage against was Donu Deca
I think I am taking too many cards that are irrelevant to my build.
Maybe! Post decklists and ask questions and we can help you figure it out.
I dont have a hard and fast rule on how many cards i stick into my deck. I've won with 40+ card beasts and tiny 25ish decks. Though generally i'm floating between 25-40, with about 32-33 being the most common.
Generally, the things you're looking to solve for a deck can be split into: How do you Scale? (Offensive/Defensive). How do you do damage (Scaling/Frontloaded)? How do you Defend yourself. How do you draw what you need/do other utility options (Aritfact, Exhuast, other linchpins the deck may or may not need, stripping enemy artifact)?
So if we take the deck above - It's damage got (mostly) solved by mid-late act 1, thanks to finding poison cards and catalyst, and getting upgrades. It didnt have a solution for AoE other than letter opener, so i was hoping to find a Corpse Explosion. Hence i just stopped taking offensive cards, because the threshold for them was pretty high - Corpse Explosion and Crippling Cloud would have been about the only offensive cards i'd have taken.
Defensively the deck was a lot less sure on what it was doing - Hence we pick up Wraith Form end of Act 1, as this offers a strong option. Piercing Wails give us both a strong defensive option, and strip artifact. Paper Krane is bought to open up another defensive avenue, though it never pans out - a shame, but these things happen. Finally we get Apparitions, confirming we're going for a Intangibility based strategy, so at this point (End of act 2) we've basically stopped taking cards. We'll take a Leg Sweep (Weak), we'll take a Nightmare (Utility, 3 good targets in the deck in Apparition, Wraith Form & Catalyst), and we'll take the CE/CC we mentioned previously. But the deck's approach has been figured out, and we really dont need to shove more in to support that.
Honestly? Best advice is just experiment. figure out what works for you. If something DOSENT seem like it's working, or you're not sure why... ask us questions!
Having a damage and block cap in mind when building isn't something I've honestly though about, but you're right. May feel cool absolutely stomp something with obscene block, strength, poison etc, but if the overkill was trimmed down you could probably get the machine working earlier by function of just having fewer cards in your deck to cycle through
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Just had my first win as Ironclad. basically abused Eat a whole bunch. Game is not nearly as long as I thought.
Having a damage and block cap in mind when building isn't something I've honestly though about, but you're right. May feel cool absolutely stomp something with obscene block, strength, poison etc, but if the overkill was trimmed down you could probably get the machine working earlier by function of just having fewer cards in your deck to cycle through
Generally a block cap is not something you want. The only way you have too much block is if it's interfering with drawing your other cards. Or if you're somehow doing stupid hings that are having you hit the block cap (and even then, the heart will overwhelm your 999 block eventually).
but attacks, definitely. of course what "Enough" is is a bit of an art, and it's not something i can nail down easily. I knew that deck had "enough", but that's a product of experience and practice more than anything else.
Every time I play the Silent, I try to be "I want to go shivs this time", and end up with everything poison.
So big, big tip with this game: Do not try and force archtypes. you WILL get screwed if you do. Shivs, posion, etcera... they're all just means to an end: Winning.
Every time I play the Silent, I try to be "I want to go shivs this time", and end up with everything poison.
So big, big tip with this game: Do not try and force archtypes. you WILL get screwed if you do. Shivs, posion, etcera... they're all just means to an end: Winning.
Snecko Skull probably would have been more useful. This was just the first time I've had the Specimen and it did a crazy amount of work in Act 3.
Specimen is one of my favorite relics that I admit isn't actually as good as it should be given how much I like it lol
It's one of thsoe relics i think is at the wrong rarity (Tingsha is another one, actually) - it's really powerful, but it's also a do nothing relic in a lot of fights. Gremlin horn has the same conditional, but is Uncommon rather than rare. Much prefer to see it and Tingsha bumped down to uncommon, and Snecko Skull bumped up to uncommon (Snekco Skull is WAY too strong for how easy it is to get)
Specimen is one of my favorite relics that I admit isn't actually as good as it should be given how much I like it lol
It's one of thsoe relics i think is at the wrong rarity (Tingsha is another one, actually) - it's really powerful, but it's also a do nothing relic in a lot of fights. Gremlin horn has the same conditional, but is Uncommon rather than rare. Much prefer to see it and Tingsha bumped down to uncommon, and Snecko Skull bumped up to uncommon (Snekco Skull is WAY too strong for how easy it is to get)
The gremlin horn, it really bothers me that passive orb kills don't let you keep the card you drew for the next turn.
Also has a few other minor changes - Fire Breathing and Calling Bell are getting changed.
The Firebreathing change is not what i expected, but it's interesting. It probably makes firebreathing a legit early game pickup, if nothing else just for Tri-Sentries/hexaghost. Which is not the worst thing. ALso means it works wel with Evolve/Mark of Pain and other such shennagins, so that's actually reasonbly cool.
Not convinced it's a goood card mind, but hey.
Call of the Bell is interesting - Need ot see how that actually works.
The 4th character looks interesting in general, as expected. Seems stance shifting is your main energy gain mechanic, and balancing your stance-dancing is going to be an important part of how you scale/. Looks like they have a LOT of ways to go nova with energy gain, but card draw is a bit more fussy - though there's a gain cards on stance-switch. Lots of interesting stuff here!
Calling Bell will be grab-able without curse if you have Omamori, I hope. Will make that a consistently strong pick regardless.
Assuming that the Curse of the Bell is a permanently unremovable Curse ala Necronomicurse, yeah, it should be a much more reasonble pick. It's very, very niche right now, the varience on it is just too high
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'm surprised you're not talking about the Hovering Kite change. It seems more reasonably pick-able now, but I feel like I also like it less. Part of what I liked about Hovering Kite was the forced discard, as it could let you use the discard-for-benefit cards without needing something else to feed them. The current version seems like it just makes Prepared a lot better and your first Acrobatics free (these are both great things, but not exactly interesting).
New class seems like its gonna get even more mileage out of runic pyramid than other classes, since many of its cards care about hand size and/or doing big one turn combos. Like it may be a near autowin for that class.
I'm surprised you're not talking about the Hovering Kite change. It seems more reasonably pick-able now, but I feel like I also like it less. Part of what I liked about Hovering Kite was the forced discard, as it could let you use the discard-for-benefit cards without needing something else to feed them. The current version seems like it just makes Prepared a lot better and your first Acrobatics free (these are both great things, but not exactly interesting).
Quite honestly, I'm waiting for the patch notes and the chance to play things before I really go whole hog on things.
Like the kite change? I have NO IDEA how that's going to feel in actual play. It's a very, very big difference. Loosing a source of garunteeded discard seems like a big deal. It's energy becomes more unreliable to, so it's worse with X cost cards now, unless you can get tools of the trade in play. It makes upgraded ToT a lot better...
But this is all napkin theory. Actual play experience is what matters for me!
I didn't think to use artifact to block the focus loss of Biased Cognition. Blew my mind.
you can also block the stat loss of Flex Potions or Speed Potions. Important note: If you're popping multiple of the same type, pop them first THEN apply artifact. That way a single artifact stack will negate the entire loss. Potent!
Re: Hovering kite change - a further thought. This change makes it into an unreliable energy relic, akin to the Battery for Defect, or other conditional energy relics (Happy Flower, Sundial, etcera). That's particularly notable as one of the reasons to take a fourth energy is you need that fourth energy every time. So this is a VERY huge change once you start breaking down what it lets you play. EG: Dash + Preadator in hand, under the old HK: You may play both. Dash + Predator in hand under the new model: You can only play one, unless you can somehow draw into the other with a calculated gamble.
It also neutuers some of the strength of the Unceasing Top/HK combo (Which worked off using the forced discard to let you dig through your deck faster with Top)
I honestly think it's going to land up being a boss relic i still don't take a lot - but now it'll be because it just doesnt offer a lot to me, rather than because the downside was too painful. But again, actual play experience is needed
The artifact plus temp effect trick is really good to have up your sleeve for bosses and elites on later floors. You can't really sustain it across multiple hallway fights but it can lead to some crazy damage bursts or eke out a few more turns
The artifact plus temp effect trick is really good to have up your sleeve for bosses and elites on later floors. You can't really sustain it across multiple hallway fights but it can lead to some crazy damage bursts or eke out a few more turns
Generally, an artifact pot + a speed pot (or a flex pot in the right deck - you need some good STR scaling) is strong enough to outright win you a boss fight. If you've ever seen me hold an artifact pot while i'm streaming, it's often just off the strength of that combo. ALso because blocking Vuln in the heart fight is so, so important, but that's a more niche thing.
Think of it this way: A speed pot DOUBLES the effectivness of your defends. DOubles. That's INSANE
Had dead branch on silent, it made me a storm of steel. Played that, discarding 4 cards. The shivs made me an eviscerate which still cost 4. I guess it doesn't see cards that were discarded before it existed even though it is worded like it should.
Had dead branch on silent, it made me a storm of steel. Played that, discarding 4 cards. The shivs made me an eviscerate which still cost 4. I guess it doesn't see cards that were discarded before it existed even though it is worded like it should.
Cards that have just been created have no idea of what's come previously. Claws created by Hello World notably have no idea of what the Claw # is, and will only deal the base damage. Conversely, if you duplicate a Rampage, it copies the current rampage #, but those copies are then seprate.
Had dead branch on silent, it made me a storm of steel. Played that, discarding 4 cards. The shivs made me an eviscerate which still cost 4. I guess it doesn't see cards that were discarded before it existed even though it is worded like it should.
Cards that have just been created have no idea of what's come previously. Claws created by Hello World notably have no idea of what the Claw # is, and will only deal the base damage. Conversely, if you duplicate a Rampage, it copies the current rampage #, but those copies are then seprate.
I would expect new claws to not get bonuses by their wording since each claw buffs all claws. But eviscerate says "costs one less for each card you have discarded this turn" not " every time you discard a card reduce this card's cost by one".
Probably my only complaint about the game is there are a few mechanic interactions that could use tightening up.
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Well thank you! I looked for this and didn't find it.
And now they have gone one to become my favorite along with the defect
I've been talking a bit recently about how you dont need a lot of damage to win the game, you just need Enough. i think this deck was a very good example of that - 2x Deadly Poison+, 1x Poison Stab+ and a Catalyst+. Sprinkled with a Letter Opener, and later on a Mercury Hourglass, and that was all it had till it bought Bronze Scales in the a4 store. (Which turned out utterly unnecessary, 9 turn kill on the heart with minimum 5 turns of Intagible in hand still)
Net result? One of the easier victories I've had. Letter Opener + Mercury hourglass mopped up aoe fights, and the Catlasyt combo did in most other things without any real sweat - being able to be intangible for a minimum of 6 turns + stronger weak sources an a bonus dex goes far. Only fight in act three it took damage against was Donu Deca
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Maybe! Post decklists and ask questions and we can help you figure it out.
I dont have a hard and fast rule on how many cards i stick into my deck. I've won with 40+ card beasts and tiny 25ish decks. Though generally i'm floating between 25-40, with about 32-33 being the most common.
Generally, the things you're looking to solve for a deck can be split into: How do you Scale? (Offensive/Defensive). How do you do damage (Scaling/Frontloaded)? How do you Defend yourself. How do you draw what you need/do other utility options (Aritfact, Exhuast, other linchpins the deck may or may not need, stripping enemy artifact)?
So if we take the deck above - It's damage got (mostly) solved by mid-late act 1, thanks to finding poison cards and catalyst, and getting upgrades. It didnt have a solution for AoE other than letter opener, so i was hoping to find a Corpse Explosion. Hence i just stopped taking offensive cards, because the threshold for them was pretty high - Corpse Explosion and Crippling Cloud would have been about the only offensive cards i'd have taken.
Defensively the deck was a lot less sure on what it was doing - Hence we pick up Wraith Form end of Act 1, as this offers a strong option. Piercing Wails give us both a strong defensive option, and strip artifact. Paper Krane is bought to open up another defensive avenue, though it never pans out - a shame, but these things happen. Finally we get Apparitions, confirming we're going for a Intangibility based strategy, so at this point (End of act 2) we've basically stopped taking cards. We'll take a Leg Sweep (Weak), we'll take a Nightmare (Utility, 3 good targets in the deck in Apparition, Wraith Form & Catalyst), and we'll take the CE/CC we mentioned previously. But the deck's approach has been figured out, and we really dont need to shove more in to support that.
Honestly? Best advice is just experiment. figure out what works for you. If something DOSENT seem like it's working, or you're not sure why... ask us questions!
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Generally a block cap is not something you want. The only way you have too much block is if it's interfering with drawing your other cards. Or if you're somehow doing stupid hings that are having you hit the block cap (and even then, the heart will overwhelm your 999 block eventually).
but attacks, definitely. of course what "Enough" is is a bit of an art, and it's not something i can nail down easily. I knew that deck had "enough", but that's a product of experience and practice more than anything else.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Do you mean Snecko Skull? Speciem only bounces poison across to targets? Still in an Aoe fight it's ceartinly a poison multipler
So big, big tip with this game: Do not try and force archtypes. you WILL get screwed if you do. Shivs, posion, etcera... they're all just means to an end: Winning.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Snecko Skull probably would have been more useful. This was just the first time I've had the Specimen and it did a crazy amount of work in Act 3.
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It's one of thsoe relics i think is at the wrong rarity (Tingsha is another one, actually) - it's really powerful, but it's also a do nothing relic in a lot of fights. Gremlin horn has the same conditional, but is Uncommon rather than rare. Much prefer to see it and Tingsha bumped down to uncommon, and Snecko Skull bumped up to uncommon (Snekco Skull is WAY too strong for how easy it is to get)
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Yeah, that'd be a fine buff to it too.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
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The gremlin horn, it really bothers me that passive orb kills don't let you keep the card you drew for the next turn.
Also has a few other minor changes - Fire Breathing and Calling Bell are getting changed.
The Firebreathing change is not what i expected, but it's interesting. It probably makes firebreathing a legit early game pickup, if nothing else just for Tri-Sentries/hexaghost. Which is not the worst thing. ALso means it works wel with Evolve/Mark of Pain and other such shennagins, so that's actually reasonbly cool.
Not convinced it's a goood card mind, but hey.
Call of the Bell is interesting - Need ot see how that actually works.
The 4th character looks interesting in general, as expected. Seems stance shifting is your main energy gain mechanic, and balancing your stance-dancing is going to be an important part of how you scale/. Looks like they have a LOT of ways to go nova with energy gain, but card draw is a bit more fussy - though there's a gain cards on stance-switch. Lots of interesting stuff here!
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Assuming that the Curse of the Bell is a permanently unremovable Curse ala Necronomicurse, yeah, it should be a much more reasonble pick. It's very, very niche right now, the varience on it is just too high
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Given the way it's written, that sounds like it's a PERMANENT upgrade. So it's Feed-But-For-Upgrades. iiiiiinnnteresting.
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Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Given Megacrit's track record I would've been really surprised if they would've come up with something boring. :P
Quite honestly, I'm waiting for the patch notes and the chance to play things before I really go whole hog on things.
Like the kite change? I have NO IDEA how that's going to feel in actual play. It's a very, very big difference. Loosing a source of garunteeded discard seems like a big deal. It's energy becomes more unreliable to, so it's worse with X cost cards now, unless you can get tools of the trade in play. It makes upgraded ToT a lot better...
But this is all napkin theory. Actual play experience is what matters for me!
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
This game is 1000% more addictive than you've read. Good luck!
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I just beat Ascension 10 with it almost trivially
That is maybe the most delightful run I've ever had
you can also block the stat loss of Flex Potions or Speed Potions. Important note: If you're popping multiple of the same type, pop them first THEN apply artifact. That way a single artifact stack will negate the entire loss. Potent!
Re: Hovering kite change - a further thought. This change makes it into an unreliable energy relic, akin to the Battery for Defect, or other conditional energy relics (Happy Flower, Sundial, etcera). That's particularly notable as one of the reasons to take a fourth energy is you need that fourth energy every time. So this is a VERY huge change once you start breaking down what it lets you play. EG: Dash + Preadator in hand, under the old HK: You may play both. Dash + Predator in hand under the new model: You can only play one, unless you can somehow draw into the other with a calculated gamble.
It also neutuers some of the strength of the Unceasing Top/HK combo (Which worked off using the forced discard to let you dig through your deck faster with Top)
I honestly think it's going to land up being a boss relic i still don't take a lot - but now it'll be because it just doesnt offer a lot to me, rather than because the downside was too painful. But again, actual play experience is needed
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
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Also, still failing woth Silent and Defect.
Generally, an artifact pot + a speed pot (or a flex pot in the right deck - you need some good STR scaling) is strong enough to outright win you a boss fight. If you've ever seen me hold an artifact pot while i'm streaming, it's often just off the strength of that combo. ALso because blocking Vuln in the heart fight is so, so important, but that's a more niche thing.
Think of it this way: A speed pot DOUBLES the effectivness of your defends. DOubles. That's INSANE
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Cards that have just been created have no idea of what's come previously. Claws created by Hello World notably have no idea of what the Claw # is, and will only deal the base damage. Conversely, if you duplicate a Rampage, it copies the current rampage #, but those copies are then seprate.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
On the otherhand, finally got a victory with the Silent! got extremely lucky, though.
I would expect new claws to not get bonuses by their wording since each claw buffs all claws. But eviscerate says "costs one less for each card you have discarded this turn" not " every time you discard a card reduce this card's cost by one".
Probably my only complaint about the game is there are a few mechanic interactions that could use tightening up.