[Slay the Spire] Silently Watching the Defective Ironclad Heart.

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    Gonna try an experiment here. Got a run going that I feel has promise, but I'm not sure what to go for off the Act 2 boss relics because none of them are screaming out to me as ideal.

    Boss Relics options are: Black Star, Tiny House, Astrolabe

    My Relics:
    • Pure Water
    • Duality (1 dex per attack played per turn, Watcher only)
    • Smiling Mask
    • Letter Opener
    • Preserved Insect
    • Fusion Hammer (Act 1 boss reward)
    • Red Mask
    • Bird Faced Urn
    • Pantograph
    • Bag of Preparation
    • Bottled Lightning

    My Deck:
    • Strike+ x2
    • Defend+ x4
    • Eruption+ (only way into Wrath)
    • Vigilance
    • Carve Reality
    • Sands of Time+
    • Crush Joints+
    • Worship (only way into Divinity)
    • Rushdown
    • Wheel Kick
    • Tranquility
    • Wallop+
    • Omniscience (BOTTLED) (Act 1 boss reward)
    • Deceive Reality
    • Fear No Evil
    • Flurry of Blows x2
    • Empty Mind
    • Conclude
    • Talk to the Hand
    • Wish (Act 2 boss reward)

    Fusion Hammer locks me out of upgrades, so Astrolabing two strikes and a defend has a certain appeal, but I got the upgrade all strikes/defends event so I'm just trading upgraded cards for more upgraded cards which might be worse. I guess Astrolabing un-upgraded cards might be alright as well, but I took Deceive Reality to go with Duality/Flurry spam turns, but got Talk to the Hand late in the act. Not sure what else I should scrap, and if the risk of losing with random cards is too high.

    Black Star + Preserved Insect has an appeal (I already took a super elite in Act 1, so my pathing options in Act 3 are wide open) but even with bottled Omniscience + Wish combo I'm not sure the deck is super super strong unless I get a very good card draw order, also Bird Faced Urn only has one power currently for sustain purposes. I wish I had a Tantrum or something so I could pop off more, or another Omniscience (I've seen no rares in regular card rewards so far, so its possible).

    I'm not taking Tiny House unless there's an amazing argument for it that I'm missing.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    With only one Divinity source Astrolabe on that plus Rushdown and Conclude might pay off. Never been a fan of those two.

    Consider that Tiny House upgrades a card too.

    I'd probably go Black Star and hope for an elite heavy path tbh.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    Conclude is so strong in AOE fights (cleaned house on the adds for collector forcing him to summon a lot), but it isn't upgraded so that nerfs its damage somewhat.

    If I could pick Tiny House's upgrade, that would make it a pick. Upgrading Omniscience since I'm stuck on 4 energy (missed Lantern in a store) is a thing.

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I find it difficult to assess how good at dealing damage Watcher decks are, but yours doesn't feel great at it? You do seem like you're a Tantrum or Simmering Fury away from making Rushdown function, or another Empty ____ from being able to actually use your flurries reliably.
    Black Star feels like more of a gamble than Astrolabe, honestly. You need your deck to be up to it, and the pathing has to play out. Can you kill a 3/4 health Stone Head before it rolls you over? What about Reptomancer?
    Maybe Astrolabe 1x Strike, 1x Defend, 1x ... Conclude? I don't like ditching it, but your deck wants to play its attacks first, and un-upgraded or reliably able to be in wrath makes it less appealing. I think it's either that or Worship, and this lets you path shops in Act 3 to try and find your second source of wrath.

    Naphtali
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Another one of those times the game seems like it's mocking me. First card pick has a Pressure Points. OK fine, just did that deck going for something else. Besides, those don't spawn that often despite being common.

    Long story short by the end of Act 1 the game spawned SEVEN of them. I picked none, but I think I'm going to have to replay this seed just to see what happens if I take them all..

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Another one of those times the game seems like it's mocking me. First card pick has a Pressure Points. OK fine, just did that deck going for something else. Besides, those don't spawn that often despite being common.

    Long story short by the end of Act 1 the game spawned SEVEN of them. I picked none, but I think I'm going to have to replay this seed just to see what happens if I take them all..

    Ultra Mega Pressure Points? Shh no, he is legend.

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  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Sup

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    edited April 23
    aoaqbko9l089.jpg
    (excuse the edited screenshot, the Switch's score screen makes you scroll to see all the cards)

    Astrolabe on Strike+, Defend+, and Conclude got me Devotion+, Prostrate+, and Third Eye+.

    Orb walker event gave Pocket Watch, Giant Head (which took six restarts and both potions to find a line that worked) gave Boot and a second Omniscience, Nemesis gave Shuriken, act chest had Teardrop Locket, Reptomancer gave Potion Belt and an Entropic Brew, which gave Swift Pot, Cultist Pot, Weak Pot, and Miracle Pot. Bosses were Time Eater and Donu Deca, which both couldn't withstand the setup double Omni gave me. Double Wish, Double Devotion+. Divinity every turn almost.

    Act 4 shop had Anchor, Happy Flower, Foresight and Meditate. Act 4 Elite gave Mental Fortress and Cloak Clasp.

    Poor Heart didn't have a fucking chance. Now I can die. And thank you all again for the advice on the Act 2 boss relic pick, that really made the run.

    Naphtali on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Congrats @Naphtali Sorry i dindt stick in advice earlier, i kept getting distracted

    For watcher against the Act 4 elites, something that helps a lot i've found is iether abusing Watcher's wonderful Retain cards, or using stuff like Vault + Eruption to just let you blow one to pieces beofre it can do anything (Watcher beyond any other class is amazing at that)

    On that note:
    B9DF5338992A6E644519AA8E3029636FB1012891

    Boy was this a silly run.

    Relic trade gets me Black Star, and there's a four elite path in act 1. Then i manage to put Explosive Pot, Wheel Kick, Battle Hymn and Empty fist into the deck before the first elite... which gives me Dead Branch.

    Yyyyyeah. Then i get Wing Boots in act 2 and get another 4 elites.

    Also a great example of scores being dumb - this thing STEAMROLLED the game, but got a very low score (mainly becuase i just took chip damage all over the place). Whatever!

    Heart was kinda hairy in the "i still had 35 hp and killed it in ten turns" way. Not getting Deva form into play made it Very Awkward as my hand proceeded to fill up with Windmill strikes.

    Oh, also, i blew up the Transient.

    As you might be able to see, i've been testign the no eruption upgrade recently. Still not really a fan of it at all - it just FEELS awful, thoguh act 1 upgrading Battle Hymn was the objectively correct choice, act 2 i had to rest and then upgrade Deva form (Kinda vital to the deck functioning) and act 3... i got a fasting upgrade.

    Not exactly rolling in upgrades here.

    Another interesting moment: Forgoing buying a clockwork souvenir so i could buy Master Reality. Pretty sure that was 100% correct choice given dead branch and how stupid strong upgrades are en-mass

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  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    Everyday is console patch day :rotate:



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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Bedlam wrote: »
    Everyday is console patch day :rotate:

    I’m sure I have no idea what you’re talking about.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    completely normal amount of block to end the heart fight with:
    9BF6D927562A67ADA86E5AC66212F5D6A712963824B76AA3DD2949F8789D37D1ADB9455A6CB133A4

    Used Third Eye+ to discard Omniscene turn 1, then pull it back into my hand with liquid memories on turn 2 and double cast Fasting+, then hit the heart with Fear No Evil - triggering Orange Pellets and giving me a nice 8 dex and 8 str. Very reasonable!

    Starting with Runic Dome is tough, but hardly undoable. Leaned heavily into Wrath/Halt/Fear No Evil shennagins and later on trasinitoned to abusing Establishment+ and Battle Hymn+ to give the deck constant free ammo. Wish i'd had a second Meditate+, but even one was enough to handily break the energy economy of the deck. (Especially helpful when i found a Worship+). And ofc, double talk to the hand+ does work

    Could have been a 6 energy deck, but you only really need 4e in act 2, and taking Pandora's box when you have Toxic Egg is almost always the right play

    ...Somehow in the act 4 store i removed Wallop? According to the thing, which dosent seem rihgt- i distinctly remember removing Deus Ex. It's possible i did remove wallop and just... didn't notice, that seems like a me thing to do.



    I meant to remove Deus Ex though, because the mircales were flooding my hand - I guess removing parasite also would have worked, but hand flood was a real problem with the miracles.

    Also a very nice self-thinning deck. Admire how many cards get removed once you play them, leaving you with a lean punchy engine!

    ...really do wish i'd had more meditates to be able to abuse them and Sancity+

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Runic Dome is the one relic where if Neow gives it to me I just nope straight out. I just really, really hate it.

    Elvenshaekime
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Runic Dome is the one relic where if Neow gives it to me I just nope straight out. I just really, really hate it.

    Honestly, i hate it too, but i'm just stubborn enough to refuse to give up just because i got it. (And starting with 4 e is so good on Watcher anyway...)

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited April 25
    ...hahahaha, what.

    I just walked out of act one with 3 Rangarok+

    And i got Snecko Eye.

    Bahahahahahahaha

    Edit: Yeah, there was no loosing this run.

    I got a True Perfect on the heart - Didnt even drop buffer. Also fucking hell, this was the most degenrate deck i've had in a while. I actually skipped buying orange pellets + fasting because it would have made the deck weaker
    95BCA264F2E03AD90B24ECB5CB79E675FB0E8CB46840BE66E47351634374A5A1B42CDDEEA724CEB0

    4. 4 talk to the hand+

    Just hahaha, what. A ragnarok made 72 block when cast!

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Watcher is by far my best class. I'm still unsure if that's because she's overtuned, or i just understand her better -

    Or frankly, that i just lean way more into variance with her, so when i high roll at the start of the run, i tend to high roll really hard.
    033674CC31080DDB94D8D61E6395005A20D5F6D6D964D63BD04F91B9A2155D1EA66700E126E4A78F

    First deck was a right nightmare to pilot. It worked, in the end, but i only just scraped through the act 3 boss fights. Going in at 35 hp against awoken one, then 19 hp vs time eater? Yeah, not my best plan. But demolished the A4 Elites and A4 Heart.

    The second deck was a much stronger affair - Leaned into 0 costs to go with the RP early, upgraded eruption at the first campfire to ease the energy burden, then got Deva form on floor 8 and Apoth from my first shop. Council of Ghosts on floor 20 gave me effective immortality, but i still didnt really have a solution to damage until floor 27 - at which point i got Alpha. On top of having Omniscience.

    Lots "Do a 100 damage at the end of your turn" fights followed. The heart fight was extra fun?? because i only managed to get a 50 damage Omega into play - cue lots and lots of careful play to get as much damage down without exploding. 13 turns later, it finally had a fatal heart attack.

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  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Making a decent A4 Watcher run, encounter Writhing Mass. Get past it, barely. A few rooms later, enter a mystery room... containing another Writhing Mass.

    Fuck you too, game.

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  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    edited April 29
    this game was so so fun

    I think my deck was down to 9 cards after the first shuffle? Fewer, if I spent omni on worship or something. And 2 of those 9 were retain cards and 2 more were draw.

    uzZsh7r.jpg

    I got the peace pipe from the whale, so I was eyeing the possibility of a meme run. Act 1 was everything I needed - Protect, an upgrade to Eruption from the Living Wall, Regret and Relic followed by Wing Statue to remove the regret, and a treasure room from an event. I removed a Strike and 2 Defends at campfires, and found 2 Like Waters, a Wheel Kick, Establishment, and Mental Fortress. Odd picks for act 1, but a meal ticket and a blood vial and the early protect made it possible to do it safely. The sentries hit me for 35, but I took no damage from Lagavulin. I blocked through the slime boss until I could kill it without it dividing. Got rewarded with Omni/Scrawl/Brilliance, took Omni on the grounds that it exhausted itself and another card. Cursed Key for the energy relic.

    First event room of act 2 was the forge, second one was a fight, and at the shop in room 4 is where my gamble really paid off. Dolly's mirror and a remove. I agonized over it for awhile, considering I would hit panache every turn once my deck thinned itself out, and an anchor would help me get to that point, but in the end I couldn't pass the mirror with an omni. Like TTTH, every omni in your deck is better than the one before, and you can never have too many.

    I never saw the third omni, but the infinite dream came alive! The madness event let me omni->omni->madness->madness, and eventually i picked up a meditate which combined with establishment made it possible to drop all card costs to 0.

    The bronze automaton had his little buddies steal my omnies, and my deck got too small to play them once they came back out. But I was still able to stance swap into and out of divinity multiple times a turn, and when you're hitting him with more than one divine wheel kick a turn you can kill him before the first hyperbeam.

    He gave me a choice between alpha, scrawl, brilliance, which I stared at for a while since I'd hit 30 mantra in the previous fight and alpha is really nice with omni, and a thin deck has to fear shield and spear. Eventually I decided the card draw from scrawl would get me set up faster. Then the relics were an interesting choice too: sacred bark, sozu, tiny house. I went with sozu, holding a regen pot and an attack pot, both of which saved my life in act 4.

    First act 3 shop had a second scrawl. I fought 0 elites in acts 2 and 3, perfected the double orb walkers, picked up some gold from the gold&regret event and toked the regret away (always a good life choice)

    Act 4 shop was a bust, on to shield and spear. Perfect first hand, omnied a strength wish and a worship for +8 strength, triple damage, and enough energy to play whatever i scrawled. And... whiffed? No attacks? And my attack potion didn't give me a multiattack or draw! But I held 2 established protects and made a mental fortress, whcih let me mostly block the big round 2 hit with an eruption and a fear no evil. Took no damage on turns 3 and 4 before I killed them. Pulled a ragnarok! And the boot. SIGH. Why did they make the boot stop going through heart invincibility? Because the fucking boot was too powerful a relic? :headshake:

    Again a great heart draw - fear no evil, talk to the hand, omni, erupt, ascender's bane. I played TTTH and omnied for quadruple like waters. And, with 3 sources of calm and 2 scrawls in the remaining 18 cards, whiffed calm and whiffed scrawls! Took a brutal hit from the 67 damage swing, but by using tungsten rod and delaying block until the end, managed enough hp that I had 2 hp left after the multiattack. After that it was off to the races, because madness hit ragnarok! so 6x hit with +8 damage (hardcasted wish plus fasting) for 12 block. I kept meditating ragnarok and erupt and killed it on turn 8, with 4 hp left over.

    Powerpuppies on
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  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    I was playing an expunger deck and was excited to win an a20 heartkill without using one of my standard achetypes and help convince my buddy the watcher isn't boring or binary broken/hopeless

    Then I got a strange spoon and 2 TTTH and a wish. Conjure Blade / Strange Spoon is a broken combo we've explored before, and TTTH / Strange Spoon is not far behind it.

    Oh well. At least this happened

    dnMESSt.jpg

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    unknown.png

    I have been on such a losing streak with Defect on A20 hearts lately you wouldn't believe. But this run everything finally lined up. Including Incense Burner, which perfectly blocked Woke Bloke's multi hit, Time Eater, Act 4 elites turn 2, and the heart doing a big hit on turn 2.

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  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    How did it play? Was the dark relevant?

    sig.gif
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    How did it play? Was the dark relevant?

    Yes, occasionally. It's how I killed off Awakened One and Time Eater after getting set up, just stalled until it was good enough to nuke them. Getting the echo forms in play and echoing the core surge and biased cogs was the main strategy, and using the glaciers to defend. I had saved a darkness pot for the heart and that helped polish it off.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Why is conjure blade and strange spoon an OP combo? Generally i would prefer conjure blade to exhaust rather than not

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I can see the argument - if you're a deck that can abuse Conjure Blade, more conjure blades is almost certainly better.

    I'd argue TTTH/SS is way, way, stronger though.

    Meanwhile: At this point i'm mostly just playing watcher, because she's easiest for me to play lazily on a20 and have fun. 2.6k hours into the game and i'm basically over playing super seriously, but the game still ahs it's hooks in me.
    40A5E56D5168375FFB5071D61915C0820D559A71

    This win was super fun. 6 energy deck that played 3 Fasting+. Indignation remains a ridiclous damage engine on Watcher, and thsi deck was just silly. also 102 max hp by the heart, which you know, not bad not bad.
    7FA805050F40F5A86785B547486CBB9828FE0357
    This run meanwhile needed an Establishment from about mid act 1 to be really good. So of course i finally got it from the heart in a power pot. *twitch*

    (Seriously, dont sleep on the ridc power that is Meditate+ and Establishment)

    Also brilliance remains a really solid card even before you start putting Divinity into your deck. (1e 16 damage is just... good in act 1, and even act 2).
    CD3AB5AA7AD192CD14E9CCBC4449586C8C4B874B

    Then you get it ot the point where you dunk on the heart with a 200 damage brilliance and it's just Mmm, yes, goood. (also which idiot forgot to remove weak? This idiot. Sadly for the heart, it didn't matter)

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  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Not relevant to me, but possibly of interest to some of you.


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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Not relevant to me, but possibly of interest to some of you.



    Oh noes! MY FREE TIME!!!

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    edited June 4
    Aw, still no Android? Oh well. I can wait.
    Watcher is by far my best class. I'm still unsure if that's because she's overtuned, or i just understand her better -

    I just kind of noticed this thought and I think I know why Watcher's so much better than the other 3 classes. She just has a far stronger starter deck that builds into her natural synergies. It's like if Ironclad started with a strength or exhaust card, or Silent started with a poison card, or Defect started with Focus. Getting both Calm and Wrath sources in your starting deck when you'll need one or both to get through most of the run for a while, or the entire run just gives you so much more flexibility. Stances are her scaling in a way and she immediately has access to two of them in some form, no RNG required.

    Naphtali on
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  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    I think you have a good point. I also felt like Watcher can get by with less upgraded cards, and can more reliably keep its cards working together.

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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I find the basic class design here interesting in a way because it follows traditional design decisions of rarity in Magic the Gathering, according to Mark Rosewater's articles. Except for the Watcher.

    A lot of his design philosophy is about getting set mechanics at a low enough rarity that the bulk of players of various formats will interact with them. He also is trying to keep complexity away from common cards and in higher rarities. The sweet spot for them is much different than StS, but the intersection of classes and sets is novel in a way that I don't see in other games.

    I do think that it's that stances are both a class mechanic and a way to scale that makes it tough to keep out of the starting deck without devaluing them extensively.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    I mean those two cards alone (Vigilance and Eruption) are not enough to carry, but just Wrath stance alone can get you to Act 2 generally (especially against Slime Boss and one other decent heavy attack).

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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    But if you didn't start the game with them in your deck, they can't guarantee that you'll ever encounter stances in a way conducive to drafting. They'd have to make them more prolific to have any impact and a draftable strategy. Without just making them into some other mechanic entirely, you'd be flooded with them at common. Which, I guess is workable, but not remotely the way the other classes are designed.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I would also argue she has the best starting relic, because it's typically a boss relic. :P

    Burtletoy
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Unrelated, this was obviously the daily run, but it's hilarious.
    vo5742ie1psg.png

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  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular


    I honestly don't think I'd get it on my phone if/ when it comes to android, but that's because I value my battery life.

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    I'll get it on my android phone so I can lose at A20 on the go even more than I do now :rotate:

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    New personal high score:

    3797
    D2ADE83ADBF39CCC622AA0862341EE2912C88BE5[img][/img]

    Always fun when you kill the A4 elites on turn one, too. Without preserved insect.

    Yyyyyeah, this deck was bahrooooken - only lost Bossfight hp in Hexaghost and the Heart. Total damage taken from elites was... 12 hp across the entire run.

    Basically being able to guarantee that any given fight started off with a Wrath'd Raganrok (+TTTH and WoTTH) did the rest. and you know, if that wasnt enough, Deva Form, Dead Branch and Battle Hymn are pretttty good together, weirdly enough.

    I'm still curious what the theoretical max legit score is in the game. It probably involves some absurdly lucky routing (A 4 elite a1, and an a2/a3 that are also 4+, ideally 6 or 7 with wing boots), getting perfect on all the elites, perfect on all the bosses, a20, heart kill, getting the 2k gold scorebonus, getting the 25+ relics bonus, and a few other shennagins.

    Which probably means it's some sort of Snecko Watcher with very early Courier + Membership card that then sees the mindbloom event, possibly while also having Black Star.

    Also a bunch of other wins, buuuut less to say about them. Dead branch still good.
    739FD4E2E49ED63943F59F2F925E71E86511B6436D285FBE9B2242B44F91752FF5174646C67CF8DC3810255772D42A7CF6531082B69414BA63698DF7

    Considering getting Monster Train. We'll see

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  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    edited June 15
    Anyone know if the iOS version includes the Watcher update?

    Edit: Yes, it does

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  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular


    I'm actually pretty impressed I got to Heart without any relics giving me extra energy. Let's hear it for a bunch of 0s.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I bought StS in iOS and did my first run with the Defect the other day. Got Sneko Eye and went all-in on the big cards. Couldn't find Echo Form to save my life. I beat the boss and...

    ...unlocked Echo Form.

    Right....you gotta unlock shit.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    @Vyolynce as you get better at the game you'll find the value of energy relics drops a decent amount. They, are, to be clear, INCREDIBLY powerful, and are usually the right choice.

    But the negatives on them are all pretty nasty and you really have to weight your choices carefully.

    What did you pass up for tiny house? That i'm curious on as tiny house is pretty universally awful. I need to go argue at the devs it needs Moar Buffs again =D (They dont agree with me ;.;)

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