In no way would I ever have dreamed of people describing the Reality Dysfunction series as hard sci fi.
Well, I don't think anyone would. The keyword being "supposedly". At least, I went into it thinking it wasn't totally space fantasy. Maybe a little FTL but that's kind of an edge case to keep from tying the author's hands. But then it went totally off the rails.
Midway check-in; I really like this first earthsea book. I don’t know if it’s intentional as such but the writing style feels exactly like I’m at the tavern hearing the story of a core mythology of this world. And just le guin writing is always a standout to me. What she could say in 200 pages just feels equal to what others output in their whole careers
They do tend to fall on the side of “you can have as much freedom as you want as long as you agree with us” scale, and can be absolutely ruthless dealing with less developed cultures. Within the culture everyone is free, taken care of, and largely happy.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Midway check-in; I really like this first earthsea book. I don’t know if it’s intentional as such but the writing style feels exactly like I’m at the tavern hearing the story of a core mythology of this world. And just le guin writing is always a standout to me. What she could say in 200 pages just feels equal to what others output in their whole careers
I read through the earthsea series last year and you hit it right on. It feels like a tale. Easily one of my favorite series.
I've read two of Hamilton's trilogies: the Void trilogy, where each book is some 800 pages, and the Salvation Sequence, at about 600 pages each.
The Void books were in dire need of an editor hitting him with a rolled-up newspaper. It kind of has. two parallel books going on at once, and I found the Waterwalker part way more intriguing than the rest, where it just felt like most characters were either having multi-body orgies, or running around in a panic dragged along by events rather than really doing anything. Feels like a lot of the non-Waterwalker stuff could have been cut pretty heavily.
The Salvation books also have several parallel plotlines going on, but not feeling as surgically separated as the Waterwalker parts of the Void books. Overall they feel a lot tighter, so maybe he actually did get better, or got tired of being slapped with a newspaper.
In no way would I ever have dreamed of people describing the Reality Dysfunction series as hard sci fi. I like space fantasy sometimes, as mentioned, my biggest problem was how damn long it was, and the mega evil torturer villains.
I think if you consider the setting of Reality Dysfunction sans the space ghosts, it's at least as "hard" as any other SF setting that allows for FTL travel.
I've read two of Hamilton's trilogies: the Void trilogy, where each book is some 800 pages, and the Salvation Sequence, at about 600 pages each.
The Void books were in dire need of an editor hitting him with a rolled-up newspaper. It kind of has. two parallel books going on at once, and I found the Waterwalker part way more intriguing than the rest, where it just felt like most characters were either having multi-body orgies, or running around in a panic dragged along by events rather than really doing anything. Feels like a lot of the non-Waterwalker stuff could have been cut pretty heavily.
The Salvation books also have several parallel plotlines going on, but not feeling as surgically separated as the Waterwalker parts of the Void books. Overall they feel a lot tighter, so maybe he actually did get better, or got tired of being slapped with a newspaper.
I feel like there's a place in the world (and on my bookshelves) for huge, plot-driven, multi-PoV mega-series. Quantity does indeed have a quality all its own. I bet Stalin would loved GRRM and Robert Jordan.
Recently finished Eyes of the Void by Adrian Tchaikovsky, which is the second book in the Final Archecture series following Shards of Earth. While it was a little slow to hook me again, once it got going I really enjoyed how he opened up the world. If you liked the first one, I would definitely recommend it. My only complaint is I started reading it thinking it was the final book in a duology, only to realize about 3/4th of the way in it was definitely not going to wrap up the overall story. I later realized it is a planned trilogy but with how quickly he writes I'm sure it will be out early next year.
After that I quickly knocked down A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik after reading about it in this thread. After the meaty existential experience with the Architect series, this was a welcome change of pace. While parts seemed slightly repetetive, I loved the tone and the world and immediately bought the 2nd book.
Next up, sticking on topic, is either Revelation Space or Pushing Ice. This will be my first foray into Alistair Reynolds after getting reacquainted following the strip a few weeks ago. Big fan of Expanse, Culture, Scalzi stuff, etc so I expect it's up my alley but not sure which one to start with, even after the above discussion. Anyone have a strong suggestion?
In no way would I ever have dreamed of people describing the Reality Dysfunction series as hard sci fi. I like space fantasy sometimes, as mentioned, my biggest problem was how damn long it was, and the mega evil torturer villains.
I think if you consider the setting of Reality Dysfunction sans the space ghosts, it's at least as "hard" as any other SF setting that allows for FTL travel.
I suppose I could agree, but the ghosts loom so large, and the Edenists feel pretty soft as a whole.
On Earthsea, as much as I liked Wizard, out of the first four I feel like Tehanu is my favorite, possibly because, or in spite of, how little happens. It takes the mundanity of Wizard and really amps it up to feel like a nice warm blanket, though terrible things happen off the page, and fleshes out the lived in feeling of the world.
Recently finished Eyes of the Void by Adrian Tchaikovsky, which is the second book in the Final Archecture series following Shards of Earth. While it was a little slow to hook me again, once it got going I really enjoyed how he opened up the world. If you liked the first one, I would definitely recommend it. My only complaint is I started reading it thinking it was the final book in a duology, only to realize about 3/4th of the way in it was definitely not going to wrap up the overall story. I later realized it is a planned trilogy but with how quickly he writes I'm sure it will be out early next year.
After that I quickly knocked down A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik after reading about it in this thread. After the meaty existential experience with the Architect series, this was a welcome change of pace. While parts seemed slightly repetetive, I loved the tone and the world and immediately bought the 2nd book.
Next up, sticking on topic, is either Revelation Space or Pushing Ice. This will be my first foray into Alistair Reynolds after getting reacquainted following the strip a few weeks ago. Big fan of Expanse, Culture, Scalzi stuff, etc so I expect it's up my alley but not sure which one to start with, even after the above discussion. Anyone have a strong suggestion?
Revelation Space is the book that made Reynolds famous. It's set in the distant future and starts a three book series, followed by Redemption Ark and then Absolution Gap. I'd recommend starting with RS and its related works. They're the original Alastair Reynolds experience and TBH, I feel like his more recent works aren't as good. IMO Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Chasm City, and the first 3/4ths of Absolution Gap are his best stuff.
Pushing Ice is near future, and standalone. It's a very fun setting, but as I posted earlier, I have issues with its characterization. If you really like The Expanse, you'll probably like it. The two have a lot of similarities.
They do tend to fall on the side of “you can have as much freedom as you want as long as you agree with us” scale, and can be absolutely ruthless dealing with less developed cultures. Within the culture everyone is free, taken care of, and largely happy.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
This is the core thesis of Look To Windward which was a pretty early Culture novel.
I also enjoyed Bank's thorough demolition of "It's OK when good chaps like us do it" Imperialism in Excession.
tl;dr if you've not read Banks, you've missed out on one of the founding voices of modern SF.
Interesting fact: When Banks started writing the Culture novels he got hate mail and death threats, because how very dare he show a communist utopia being awesome and kicking ass
This book is weird. I like it. Thanks for the recommendation.
The language has that odd quality where it wants to be a breathless rush of consciousness but it's very obviously meticulously written with great effort. It almost put me off but the weirdness of the story and the fact that I used to know people exactly like several of the characters kept me in until I got used to it.
I feel like I've read another book or story or watched a movie or something with a lot of the same elements as here but damned if I can think of what it is.
I feel like a lot of people have borrowed heavily from her work in general. I am glad you like it!!!
Over the weekend I finished The Merciful Crow and The Faithless Hawk by Margaret Owen. Rating them both 4/5. They're kind of vaguely YA-ish in construction -- 16yo female protagonist who is Born into a Caste and falls for Boy From Other Caste.
But the world is more interesting than the average Sorted Into Categories™ YA. The castes are named after various birds - Phoenix, Crow, Owl, Swan, etc. There is, of course, a hierarchy, where the Splendid Castes form the ruling aristrocracy, and then the likes of Sparrows and Crows being the lowly servants, with the Crows being barely tolerated outcasts. Of course Fie, the protagonist, is a Crow.
And of course the castes have Powers™ (called capital-B Birthrights) too, around which the plot centers once it gets moving. Phoenixes are immune to fire and can to a degree control it, Owls have photographic memory and make excellent scholars, and Crows... are immune to the Sinner's Plague.
When someone dies from the Sinner's Plague, it will rapidly spread, killing not only people but animals and crops, killing the very ground for years to come. So villages light the beacon to call for black-robed Crows to come cut the throat of the sinner before they die and take the body away to burn it. They are grudgingly paid for their service and then shunned again.
This is the core thesis of Look To Windward which was a pretty early Culture novel.
Not sure I'd say it's early. It was written 13 years after Consider Phlebas, and was the 7th of 10. It's also set about 800 years later, and about the same time as most of the other novels.
Interesting fact: When Banks started writing the Culture novels he got hate mail and death threats, because how very dare he show a communist utopia being awesome and kicking ass
They must have really loved Star Trek. Especially TNG, which aired the same year as the first Culture novel was published.
Over the weekend I finished The Merciful Crow and The Faithless Hawk by Margaret Owen. Rating them both 4/5. They're kind of vaguely YA-ish in construction -- 16yo female protagonist who is Born into a Caste and falls for Boy From Other Caste.
But the world is more interesting than the average Sorted Into Categories™ YA. The castes are named after various birds - Phoenix, Crow, Owl, Swan, etc. There is, of course, a hierarchy, where the Splendid Castes form the ruling aristrocracy, and then the likes of Sparrows and Crows being the lowly servants, with the Crows being barely tolerated outcasts. Of course Fie, the protagonist, is a Crow.
And of course the castes have Powers™ (called capital-B Birthrights) too, around which the plot centers once it gets moving. Phoenixes are immune to fire and can to a degree control it, Owls have photographic memory and make excellent scholars, and Crows... are immune to the Sinner's Plague.
When someone dies from the Sinner's Plague, it will rapidly spread, killing not only people but animals and crops, killing the very ground for years to come. So villages light the beacon to call for black-robed Crows to come cut the throat of the sinner before they die and take the body away to burn it. They are grudgingly paid for their service and then shunned again.
Starts with a nice in medias res too.
I will definitely give these a try. They sound fun.
Star Trek was tone-policed utopia, which never made a big deal about being communist and took care to have a very American accent.
Pretty sure you can (and do) read books in whatever accent you want to.
Personally, I don't see a huge difference between the two, in terms of how society actually interacts. I'd say the main difference I see is mainly who the overlords are.
And if I was someone who had knee jerk death threat reactions to communism, I'd say Kirk saying in The Voyage Home (1986, a year before either TNG or The Culture) that they no longer use money in the 23rd Century wouldn't go over too well.
Star Trek was tone-policed utopia, which never made a big deal about being communist and took care to have a very American accent.
Pretty sure you can (and do) read books in whatever accent you want to.
Personally, I don't see a huge difference between the two, in terms of how society actually interacts. I'd say the main difference I see is mainly who the overlords are.
And if I was someone who had knee jerk death threat reactions to communism, I'd say Kirk saying in The Voyage Home (1986, a year before either TNG or The Culture) that they no longer use money in the 23rd Century wouldn't go over too well.
Trek, despite also being a communist, post-scarcity utopia, doesn't tend to feel as much like one as the Culture just because, I think, Trek is (outside of DS9) set firmly within a quasi-military operation. Everybody has an obvious job and it doesn't feel weird that they just have their issued quarters and the same access to food and entertainment because that's pretty much how it works aboard a Navy ship. The Culture giving everybody whatever they want while they do whatever they feel like doing is much more in-you-face about it.
Star Trek was tone-policed utopia, which never made a big deal about being communist and took care to have a very American accent.
Pretty sure you can (and do) read books in whatever accent you want to.
Personally, I don't see a huge difference between the two, in terms of how society actually interacts. I'd say the main difference I see is mainly who the overlords are.
And if I was someone who had knee jerk death threat reactions to communism, I'd say Kirk saying in The Voyage Home (1986, a year before either TNG or The Culture) that they no longer use money in the 23rd Century wouldn't go over too well.
Trek, despite also being a communist, post-scarcity utopia, doesn't tend to feel as much like one as the Culture just because, I think, Trek is (outside of DS9) set firmly within a quasi-military operation. Everybody has an obvious job and it doesn't feel weird that they just have their issued quarters and the same access to food and entertainment because that's pretty much how it works aboard a Navy ship. The Culture giving everybody whatever they want while they do whatever they feel like doing is much more in-you-face about it.
That's a good point. Though in the books, so much of our narrative involving Culture citizens is in their "service" arms - particularly Special Circumstances - out on a mission. I feel like we see more of Regular People from outside the Culture than we do of them in it.
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NoneoftheaboveJust a conforming non-conformist.Twilight ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2022
Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space books could be read in any order. Revelation Space is a good first read or Chasm City.
Or just read Pushing Ice to get a sense of his writing style.
Also, somebody should make a movie out of Pushing Ice. Depending on who writes and directs it could be a great movie or really bad. Somehow you've got to improve a little on character motivations. Ridley directing another movie with strong women main characters is something he can do. Chris Nolan or Ridley Scott directing would be great. I prefer Scott because nobody else could capture the look of what the book describes.
Just about to finish The Galaxy, and the Ground Within.
It's amazing how good Becky Chambers is at making you care about these characters. The series is so low stakes. There's no evil empire and ancient prophecies or Al Capone ghost or Satanist torturers to overcome. Just a few people living their lives--in this case dealing with an unexpected space layover. But she makes it so easy to empathise with their struggles and join in their triumphs, that it really doesn't matter it doesn't have big plot beats or twists and turns. You just want to hear more of these characters' stories.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I finished Vita Nostra, by Sergey and Marina Dyachenko*.
It is very, very interesting. The blurbs and description do not do it justice. It is sort of a book about a girl who goes to magic school, but that is not quite the way to think of it, necessarily. The magic in the book is less sorcery than occultism or personal transcendence; the (university-aged) students at the institute attend under coercion (explicit threats to their loved ones); there is little overt at all and little explained. Lots of scenes of studying utter gibberish and perhaps getting a glimpse of something more; and very much present is fear in the face of an uncaring post-soviet world where there is no security and no personal agency.
But also, yes, the shitty roommates who won't stop smoking in your room, some interestingly realistic and messy teenage relationships, the redefinition of a 17 year old within their family unit--it's not all this rather abstract and surreal magic.
I loved this book and it was just so interesting to see how skilled writers can create a protagonist with little to no agency. It isn't for everyone, and it certainly makes more sense when you think of it in the post-soviet cultural context. The translation is not great--stiff and unnatural; the translator is not a professional nor a native english speaker (it was her passion project because she loved the book so much). Still--absolutely worth reading. Extremely cool. Belongs on your bookshelf next to kafka rather than harry potter.
*they are married Ukranian authors living in California and writing in Russian. Sergei I think just died very recently, sadly.
It's been interesting so far, but I realize that maybe I know less about Russian/Ukrainian names than I thought? What exactly is the protagonists name?
Also, it's very interesting reading a story of fiction set in an area that I have done a lot of non fictional reading about recently? Do they ever make it clear what cities they are in?
Her name is Alexandra Samokhina--Sasha is short for Alexandra (can also be short for Alexander). Every person in the book, it should be said, has a very normal name--nothing playful or weird is happening. Only slightly weird name is Farit, which is a persian or arabic name, so you imagine maybe he's from one of the former soviet republics/central asia.
(these are all Russian names with Russian spellings--the authors wrote this in Russian)
It seems to take place in southern Russia, but we never get the name of the beach town they go to, or, I think, the city Sasha is from. The university is in an imaginary provincial town called Torpa.
I really want to talk about the ending with someone so tell me when you're done!
I'm about 2/3rds of the way through, posting this two hours after I should have reasonably gone to sleep, hoping it'll interrupt me from going back. I've actually read a fair amount while slightly high and awake past a reasonable time, and I feel like it really builds a sense of empathy with Sasha. There were a couple of parts that I've been really worried about, but all of them have been handled fairly well in my opinion, so that's been nice. Early on I noticed some translation weirdness, or maybe just weak prose, but at this point I'm devouring it fast enough that the only time I notice the writing is when it hits real good.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Russia on Tuesday placed Dmitry Glukhovsky, a popular science fiction writer, on its wanted list after accusing him of spreading false information about its military intervention in Ukraine.
In a post on the Telegram messaging app, Glukhovsky wrote that he stood accused of discrediting Russia's armed forces in an Instagram post.
"I am ready to repeat everything said there: "Stop the war! Admit that this is a war against an entire nation and stop it!" he wrote.
The Interior Ministry's website listed Glukhovsky, best known for the "Metro 2033" sci-fi novel and its sequels, as wanted under an unspecified article of the criminal code.
Russia has already targeted opposition figures and journalists with a law seeking jail terms of up to 15 years for those convicted of intentionally spreading "fake" news about Russia's military.
They do tend to fall on the side of “you can have as much freedom as you want as long as you agree with us” scale, and can be absolutely ruthless dealing with less developed cultures. Within the culture everyone is free, taken care of, and largely happy.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
The Culture claims to be an anachronistic socialist paradise but really they're ruled by an near omnipotent groups of AIs who uses social pressure to maintain absolute control
They do tend to fall on the side of “you can have as much freedom as you want as long as you agree with us” scale, and can be absolutely ruthless dealing with less developed cultures. Within the culture everyone is free, taken care of, and largely happy.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
The Culture claims to be an anachronistic socialist paradise but really they're ruled by an near omnipotent groups of AIs who uses social pressure to maintain absolute control
I don't think they ever really claim that. They're pretty up-front and open about the fact that the Minds are in charge and nobody within the Culture really seems to have any even passing interest in changing that state of affairs.
It's definitely not socialist. Anarcho-communist fits at most scales because they're so far post-scarcity that the ruling Minds don't need to get involved at anything less than a planetary scale. They might anyway, because they can, but it's not like you have to go petition the ruling Mind for things. Everything is just already available because the weakly-godlike Minds have anticipated the needs and desires of the populace and made it available.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
They do tend to fall on the side of “you can have as much freedom as you want as long as you agree with us” scale, and can be absolutely ruthless dealing with less developed cultures. Within the culture everyone is free, taken care of, and largely happy.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
The Culture claims to be an anachronistic socialist paradise but really they're ruled by an near omnipotent groups of AIs who uses social pressure to maintain absolute control
I don't think they ever really claim that. They're pretty up-front and open about the fact that the Minds are in charge and nobody within the Culture really seems to have any even passing interest in changing that state of affairs.
It's definitely not socialist. Anarcho-communist fits at most scales because they're so far post-scarcity that the ruling Minds don't need to get involved at anything less than a planetary scale. They might anyway, because they can, but it's not like you have to go petition the ruling Mind for things. Everything is just already available because the weakly-godlike Minds have anticipated the needs and desires of the populace and made it available.
Most Minds (or I guess at least Orbital and other human care oriented minds) are more than willing to split off a small bit of themselves to explain all the questions you could possibly think to ask them about the decisions being made for and about the Culture at large.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Trek, despite also being a communist, post-scarcity utopia, doesn't tend to feel as much like one as the Culture just because, I think, Trek is (outside of DS9) set firmly within a quasi-military operation. Everybody has an obvious job and it doesn't feel weird that they just have their issued quarters and the same access to food and entertainment because that's pretty much how it works aboard a Navy ship. The Culture giving everybody whatever they want while they do whatever they feel like doing is much more in-you-face about it.
That's a good point. Though in the books, so much of our narrative involving Culture citizens is in their "service" arms - particularly Special Circumstances - out on a mission. I feel like we see more of Regular People from outside the Culture than we do of them in it.
I think there was an interview with Banks where he mentioned both Star Trek and the Culture for just that aspect -- all the shows and books take place at the edges of their respective contact surfaces with outside cultures, because that's where you can get some nice conflict to drive the story. (Quite literally in the Culture novels since a whole lot of them have Contact influence)
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NoneoftheaboveJust a conforming non-conformist.Twilight ZoneRegistered Userregular
If I was going to read just one book in The Culture series, would it just be the first book? I'm somewhat against lengthy book series.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
If I was going to read just one book in The Culture series, would it just be the first book? I'm somewhat against lengthy book series.
Absolutely not. Consider Phlebas is the least Culture of the Culture books.
Player of Games is next and a really solid choice. Excession is the recommendation if you want lot of super intelligent ship shenanigans and seeing this superpower deal with something that might legitimately end them. I think Surface Detail is one of the best books and has ruminations about the making of our own hells (literally and figuratively), exactly what a hippie space utopia produces for warships and really bitching tattoos.
If I was going to read just one book in The Culture series, would it just be the first book? I'm somewhat against lengthy book series.
Player of Games is the usually suggested starting point.
The Culture novels aren't serial, by the way. Same setting and occasionally a character crosses from one book to another but each book stands by itself.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
If I was going to read just one book in The Culture series, would it just be the first book? I'm somewhat against lengthy book series.
Player of Games is the usually suggested starting point.
The Culture novels aren't serial, by the way. Same setting and occasionally a character crosses from one book to another but each book stands by itself.
I'd also note that their the same setting like as in "Post War America" is. The character crossovers are really more like movie cameos, they are neat to catch but irrelevant to the story.
I will 5th or whatever Player if Games. It’s a good book just in general even if you don’t like Gurgeh (the protagonist; I didn’t) but I think really captures the feel of the Culture as a setting/entity.
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Well, I don't think anyone would. The keyword being "supposedly". At least, I went into it thinking it wasn't totally space fantasy. Maybe a little FTL but that's kind of an edge case to keep from tying the author's hands. But then it went totally off the rails.
It comes down to a weird question of: is cultural chauvinism ok if the culture doing the chauvinism is right that everyone really will be happier doing things the way they do.
Like we know now through bitter experience as the west that we can’t just go into other parts of the world and solve all their problems for them, it turns into a complete clusterfuck that is inevitably as bad or worse than what was there before…. But what if it didn’t? What if you really could invade Afghanistan and have a western style democracy and standard of living in 20 years with around the same amount of bloodshed and suffering you’d expect during 20 years of taliban rule or less? Would it be right to militarily intervene in that case? Or is the self determination of those people more important even if it leads to more death and suffering over the long term?
I don’t really know the answer to that question, but the federation definitely comes down on one side (at least ideally if not always in practice) and the culture on the other.
I read through the earthsea series last year and you hit it right on. It feels like a tale. Easily one of my favorite series.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
The Void books were in dire need of an editor hitting him with a rolled-up newspaper. It kind of has. two parallel books going on at once, and I found the Waterwalker part way more intriguing than the rest, where it just felt like most characters were either having multi-body orgies, or running around in a panic dragged along by events rather than really doing anything. Feels like a lot of the non-Waterwalker stuff could have been cut pretty heavily.
The Salvation books also have several parallel plotlines going on, but not feeling as surgically separated as the Waterwalker parts of the Void books. Overall they feel a lot tighter, so maybe he actually did get better, or got tired of being slapped with a newspaper.
I think if you consider the setting of Reality Dysfunction sans the space ghosts, it's at least as "hard" as any other SF setting that allows for FTL travel.
I feel like there's a place in the world (and on my bookshelves) for huge, plot-driven, multi-PoV mega-series. Quantity does indeed have a quality all its own. I bet Stalin would loved GRRM and Robert Jordan.
After that I quickly knocked down A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik after reading about it in this thread. After the meaty existential experience with the Architect series, this was a welcome change of pace. While parts seemed slightly repetetive, I loved the tone and the world and immediately bought the 2nd book.
Next up, sticking on topic, is either Revelation Space or Pushing Ice. This will be my first foray into Alistair Reynolds after getting reacquainted following the strip a few weeks ago. Big fan of Expanse, Culture, Scalzi stuff, etc so I expect it's up my alley but not sure which one to start with, even after the above discussion. Anyone have a strong suggestion?
I suppose I could agree, but the ghosts loom so large, and the Edenists feel pretty soft as a whole.
On Earthsea, as much as I liked Wizard, out of the first four I feel like Tehanu is my favorite, possibly because, or in spite of, how little happens. It takes the mundanity of Wizard and really amps it up to feel like a nice warm blanket, though terrible things happen off the page, and fleshes out the lived in feeling of the world.
Revelation Space is the book that made Reynolds famous. It's set in the distant future and starts a three book series, followed by Redemption Ark and then Absolution Gap. I'd recommend starting with RS and its related works. They're the original Alastair Reynolds experience and TBH, I feel like his more recent works aren't as good. IMO Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Chasm City, and the first 3/4ths of Absolution Gap are his best stuff.
Pushing Ice is near future, and standalone. It's a very fun setting, but as I posted earlier, I have issues with its characterization. If you really like The Expanse, you'll probably like it. The two have a lot of similarities.
This is the core thesis of Look To Windward which was a pretty early Culture novel.
I also enjoyed Bank's thorough demolition of "It's OK when good chaps like us do it" Imperialism in Excession.
tl;dr if you've not read Banks, you've missed out on one of the founding voices of modern SF.
Interesting fact: When Banks started writing the Culture novels he got hate mail and death threats, because how very dare he show a communist utopia being awesome and kicking ass
But the world is more interesting than the average Sorted Into Categories™ YA. The castes are named after various birds - Phoenix, Crow, Owl, Swan, etc. There is, of course, a hierarchy, where the Splendid Castes form the ruling aristrocracy, and then the likes of Sparrows and Crows being the lowly servants, with the Crows being barely tolerated outcasts. Of course Fie, the protagonist, is a Crow.
And of course the castes have Powers™ (called capital-B Birthrights) too, around which the plot centers once it gets moving. Phoenixes are immune to fire and can to a degree control it, Owls have photographic memory and make excellent scholars, and Crows... are immune to the Sinner's Plague.
When someone dies from the Sinner's Plague, it will rapidly spread, killing not only people but animals and crops, killing the very ground for years to come. So villages light the beacon to call for black-robed Crows to come cut the throat of the sinner before they die and take the body away to burn it. They are grudgingly paid for their service and then shunned again.
Starts with a nice in medias res too.
Not sure I'd say it's early. It was written 13 years after Consider Phlebas, and was the 7th of 10. It's also set about 800 years later, and about the same time as most of the other novels.
They must have really loved Star Trek. Especially TNG, which aired the same year as the first Culture novel was published.
Pretty sure you can (and do) read books in whatever accent you want to.
Personally, I don't see a huge difference between the two, in terms of how society actually interacts. I'd say the main difference I see is mainly who the overlords are.
And if I was someone who had knee jerk death threat reactions to communism, I'd say Kirk saying in The Voyage Home (1986, a year before either TNG or The Culture) that they no longer use money in the 23rd Century wouldn't go over too well.
Trek, despite also being a communist, post-scarcity utopia, doesn't tend to feel as much like one as the Culture just because, I think, Trek is (outside of DS9) set firmly within a quasi-military operation. Everybody has an obvious job and it doesn't feel weird that they just have their issued quarters and the same access to food and entertainment because that's pretty much how it works aboard a Navy ship. The Culture giving everybody whatever they want while they do whatever they feel like doing is much more in-you-face about it.
That's a good point. Though in the books, so much of our narrative involving Culture citizens is in their "service" arms - particularly Special Circumstances - out on a mission. I feel like we see more of Regular People from outside the Culture than we do of them in it.
Or just read Pushing Ice to get a sense of his writing style.
Also, somebody should make a movie out of Pushing Ice. Depending on who writes and directs it could be a great movie or really bad. Somehow you've got to improve a little on character motivations. Ridley directing another movie with strong women main characters is something he can do. Chris Nolan or Ridley Scott directing would be great. I prefer Scott because nobody else could capture the look of what the book describes.
It's amazing how good Becky Chambers is at making you care about these characters. The series is so low stakes. There's no evil empire and ancient prophecies or Al Capone ghost or Satanist torturers to overcome. Just a few people living their lives--in this case dealing with an unexpected space layover. But she makes it so easy to empathise with their struggles and join in their triumphs, that it really doesn't matter it doesn't have big plot beats or twists and turns. You just want to hear more of these characters' stories.
I'm about 2/3rds of the way through, posting this two hours after I should have reasonably gone to sleep, hoping it'll interrupt me from going back. I've actually read a fair amount while slightly high and awake past a reasonable time, and I feel like it really builds a sense of empathy with Sasha. There were a couple of parts that I've been really worried about, but all of them have been handled fairly well in my opinion, so that's been nice. Early on I noticed some translation weirdness, or maybe just weak prose, but at this point I'm devouring it fast enough that the only time I notice the writing is when it hits real good.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The Culture claims to be an anachronistic socialist paradise but really they're ruled by an near omnipotent groups of AIs who uses social pressure to maintain absolute control
I don't think they ever really claim that. They're pretty up-front and open about the fact that the Minds are in charge and nobody within the Culture really seems to have any even passing interest in changing that state of affairs.
It's definitely not socialist. Anarcho-communist fits at most scales because they're so far post-scarcity that the ruling Minds don't need to get involved at anything less than a planetary scale. They might anyway, because they can, but it's not like you have to go petition the ruling Mind for things. Everything is just already available because the weakly-godlike Minds have anticipated the needs and desires of the populace and made it available.
Most Minds (or I guess at least Orbital and other human care oriented minds) are more than willing to split off a small bit of themselves to explain all the questions you could possibly think to ask them about the decisions being made for and about the Culture at large.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I think there was an interview with Banks where he mentioned both Star Trek and the Culture for just that aspect -- all the shows and books take place at the edges of their respective contact surfaces with outside cultures, because that's where you can get some nice conflict to drive the story. (Quite literally in the Culture novels since a whole lot of them have Contact influence)
I would skip Consider Phlebas if you are only reading one. Excession is my favorite, but it's got a bit of a weird tilt to it. Maybe Player of Games?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Absolutely not. Consider Phlebas is the least Culture of the Culture books.
Player of Games is next and a really solid choice. Excession is the recommendation if you want lot of super intelligent ship shenanigans and seeing this superpower deal with something that might legitimately end them. I think Surface Detail is one of the best books and has ruminations about the making of our own hells (literally and figuratively), exactly what a hippie space utopia produces for warships and really bitching tattoos.
Player of Games is the usually suggested starting point.
The Culture novels aren't serial, by the way. Same setting and occasionally a character crosses from one book to another but each book stands by itself.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I'd also note that their the same setting like as in "Post War America" is. The character crossovers are really more like movie cameos, they are neat to catch but irrelevant to the story.
Player of Games, it is! Surface Detail sounds great too.
*Pours one out for Mr. Banks and Ellison*