Nah, everyone knew that was Durant’s last year with the Dubs by like February, no matter what they said on his podcast, Dray was definitely making “me or him” ultimatums to the team that season
Kyrie for Westbrook would actually help the Lakers not be completely terrible.
Well, on paper, but Kyrie is very part time which is super on brand for the Lakers these days…but really, Lebron needs to be miserable in his final year(s) as penance for his Deshaun Watson dipshittery*
*cross-pollination talk- Lebron was one of a few complete fucking morons that expressed immediate and fawning praise for serial sexual-assailant Watson coming to the Browns because Watson is theoretically the best at playing QB the team has had since the guy they’re named for was coaching them
Looks like Blazers got Jerami Grant for the Bucks 2025 1st rounder and some 2nd round pick swaps. That makes the CJ trade much more platable (essentially becomes CJ + Nance for Grant + Hart, not bad really). Had they kept Norm and Roco, theyd be looking at a really steong starting lineup with a pretty decent bench. I guess they had to do it to avoid the repeater tax, but its going to be very eye rolly if they still end up with the two undersized defensively deficient, very expensive backcourt they just traded away from.
Looks like Blazers got Jerami Grant for the Bucks 2025 1st rounder and some 2nd round pick swaps. That makes the CJ trade much more platable (essentially becomes CJ + Nance for Grant + Hart, not bad really). Had they kept Norm and Roco, theyd be looking at a really steong starting lineup with a pretty decent bench. I guess they had to do it to avoid the repeater tax, but its going to be very eye rolly if they still end up with the two undersized defensively deficient, very expensive backcourt they just traded away from.
Yes and no. Ant looked even worse then cj at defense at times, but he’s also still super young with only 3/4 of a year with real minutes. CJ isn’t going to suddenly become a two way player. Ant still could. Better position to be in.
I agree though that norm would have been a great addition to the current lineup. Still missing someone who can actually play good one on one defense though. Which is pretty critical to building a good playoff defensive team.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
quick reminder that, as kyrie and durant look closer and closer to following harden out the door, the rockets either own or can swap with every net pick until 2027
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
The only teams at this point that would want Kyrie, I feel like, is the aforementioned Lakers to get rid of Westbrook and the Knicks so they can say they signed a big free agent finally.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I just kind of love how we all predicted Durant, Kyrie, and Harden would not have worked at all just based purely on personalities, and not basketball, and everything has worked out exactly as predicted with that. Sometimes, there is a paradox of how shocking it can be that something happens that them most likely outcome occurs exactly as predicted and with little deviation.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I just kind of love how we all predicted Durant, Kyrie, and Harden would not have worked at all just based purely on personalities, and not basketball, and everything has worked out exactly as predicted with that. Sometimes, there is a paradox of how shocking it can be that something happens that them most likely outcome occurs exactly as predicted and with little deviation.
It's probably unfair to lump Harden in with the other two. Guy wanted to win, tried to put the team on his back, and then got fed up and left. Even Durant is not quite at the same level. He obviously has a minor self-perception/social media, but he's accomplished a lot and seems to be happy just hooping with his friends, crazy as they may be. So he's probably not leadership material, but at least he shows up to play.
like god damn. anyone dumb enough to give up anything for him deserves everything they're going to get. houston gonna get some value from those picks/swaps
Knight_ on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I just kind of love how we all predicted Durant, Kyrie, and Harden would not have worked at all just based purely on personalities, and not basketball, and everything has worked out exactly as predicted with that. Sometimes, there is a paradox of how shocking it can be that something happens that them most likely outcome occurs exactly as predicted and with little deviation.
It's probably unfair to lump Harden in with the other two. Guy wanted to win, tried to put the team on his back, and then got fed up and left. Even Durant is not quite at the same level. He obviously has a minor self-perception/social media, but he's accomplished a lot and seems to be happy just hooping with his friends, crazy as they may be. So he's probably not leadership material, but at least he shows up to play.
It's really just Kyrie. He's a dumbass.
Has Harden shown up to training camp in shape once in the last 7 years? I agree Kyrie is a moron, but Harden has never had much work ethic and now it appears his body is falling apart.
like god damn. anyone dumb enough to give up anything for him deserves everything they're going to get. houston gonna get some value from those picks/swaps
He'd still probably be worth the headache if he actually played a full season of basketball.
He will never play a full season minus rest days ever. He will always miss time for injury. And feelings. And feelings he's lying about having, which is like its own time bank
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If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
Its true, but its so much mystique and credibility built on one shot, when all evidence really points to clutch vs not clutch really being mostly random. It likely could have been many different people (but, of course, it actually was him, which does count on some level)
Kyrie is good, he solves multiple issues for your offense and theoretically makes it easier to build a championship team
He has 2 team-killing flaws
1. Availability, even without the vaxx shit, dude is injury prone, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s played in less than 60% of his various teams’ games since joining the league
2. He makes everyone else on the team hate his fucking guts and just want to go fishing rather than keep playing during the late spring
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
Its true, but its so much mystique and credibility built on one shot, when all evidence really points to clutch vs not clutch really being mostly random. It likely could have been many different people (but, of course, it actually was him, which does count on some level)
It wasn't just that shot. He averaged 27.1 points that series on 47% shooting including .405 from three. For all the credit LeBron deserves for leading the Finals in every statistical category, Kyrie was the second best player in the series. He shot better than Curry everywhere, including the free-throw line, and even averaged more assists. He'll maybe never come close to that level again, but Cleveland doesn't pull off that upset without him. Not with Love averaging 8.5 a game and .263 from three.
Kyrie is good, he solves multiple issues for your offense and theoretically makes it easier to build a championship team
He has 2 team-killing flaws
1. Availability, even without the vaxx shit, dude is injury prone, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s played in less than 60% of his various teams’ games since joining the league
2. He makes everyone else on the team hate his fucking guts and just want to go fishing rather than keep playing during the late spring
To your point 1 - its more like 75% availability, with his least games per season coming in the past 3 seasons for Brooklyn - 20, 54 and 29 respectively. At least according to his wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrie_Irving#Regular_season
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited June 2022
Kyrie was the perfect second banana for that series. He took enormous advantage of the attention LeBron drew at many key moments. When Steph and Klay would hit threes back-to-back and start their little celebration, Kyrie would take the inbound pass, run past all of them, and get a quick two with one of his signature circus-style finishers to immediately stop the bleeding.
It's weird that Irving was never a big threat in transition considering he's one of the best, if not the best, at the rim finishers of his generation. Dude is an artist off the glass with either hand and from any angle.
If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
Its true, but its so much mystique and credibility built on one shot, when all evidence really points to clutch vs not clutch really being mostly random. It likely could have been many different people (but, of course, it actually was him, which does count on some level)
It wasn't just that shot. He averaged 27.1 points that series on 47% shooting including .405 from three. For all the credit LeBron deserves for leading the Finals in every statistical category, Kyrie was the second best player in the series. He shot better than Curry everywhere, including the free-throw line, and even averaged more assists. He'll maybe never come close to that level again, but Cleveland doesn't pull off that upset without him. Not with Love averaging 8.5 a game and .263 from three.
No its, true, he definitely was incredible. Im not trying to say he wasnt really good when available, im just noticing that there have been a lot of really good guards who were incredible in their 20s, and flamed out by their 30sn but Kyrie gets put on another level from those guys (again, BD, Marbury, Francis, Penny) in large part because he played with Lebron and made best use of that opportunity in 1 or 2 seasons.
I mean, hes never really been a great player in any playoff series since he left, but he is still talked about like one of those guys who is a series/title decider.
If Kyrie doesnt hit the 2016 championship winner, how different is his career and perception? Is he thought of much differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Baron Davis or these other young talented point guards who fell off by age 30.
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
Its true, but its so much mystique and credibility built on one shot, when all evidence really points to clutch vs not clutch really being mostly random. It likely could have been many different people (but, of course, it actually was him, which does count on some level)
It wasn't just that shot. He averaged 27.1 points that series on 47% shooting including .405 from three. For all the credit LeBron deserves for leading the Finals in every statistical category, Kyrie was the second best player in the series. He shot better than Curry everywhere, including the free-throw line, and even averaged more assists. He'll maybe never come close to that level again, but Cleveland doesn't pull off that upset without him. Not with Love averaging 8.5 a game and .263 from three.
No its, true, he definitely was incredible. Im not trying to say he wasnt really good when available, im just noticing that there have been a lot of really good guards who were incredible in their 20s, and flamed out by their 30sn but Kyrie gets put on another level from those guys (again, BD, Marbury, Francis, Penny) in large part because he played with Lebron and made best use of that opportunity in 1 or 2 seasons.
I mean, hes never really been a great player in any playoff series since he left, but he is still talked about like one of those guys who is a series/title decider.
Going from memory, he was great in his first playoff series with the Celtics (2019 vs Pacers), but he checked out versus the Bucks. Ever since then it’s been about availability (sometimes physical, but mostly mental), including playoffs.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Kyrie is undoubtedly a great player. A bit overrated in terms of actual effectiveness, perhaps, and definitely not a good or even average defender, but he's undoubtedly an All-Star and has some of the best handles I've ever seen.
Still 100% a dumbass, though. And his value as a player has to be taken in context of what he does to locker rooms and his actual availability (a.k.a. "the best ability"). If I had to choose between a player with 75% of Kyrie's on-court effectiveness and none of his other bullshit, I'd take that player every single time. Especially since they would likely come without a max contract and I could spend that cap space elsewhere.
The main thing, I wonder if we should reconsider if he actually is that good, anymore. He had one good game against the Celtics, and was more or less average the rest of the time. That has happened in a number of series lately, even when he has been available. Like, sure he looked incredible in the regular season when he was playing one game every 4 or 5 days, but it seems like as soon as he is on a regular NBA schedule, or gets into a playoff schedule, he can't keep up the effectiveness that makes him so special at times.
I also think that his game is so aesthetically pleasing that people remember a lot of his greatest hits and forget all of the time it doesn't work out. It's like the Kobe thing. People are so enamored with the incredible difficult shots they make, they kind of neglect that such a diet of incredible shots often leads to average or below average efficiency. When it comes to winning, I prefer the player who can get easy looks (say, Lebron, Giannis) over the player who can make hard ones (Kobe, Kyrie).
Of course, if you can do both, that's the best of all worlds (Durant).
Now, just because I got myself thinking about it, here are the easy looks vs hard makes players in the league, IMO. Unsurprisingly, it roughly breaks down to bigs vs smalls, with exceptions, but I also think of players who can quick by anyone to get to the cup as easy looks players (like Morant)
Well, then that's normal. Paradoxically, I think getting easy shots is harder to do than making hard ones. If everyone could do it, all of the shots would be easy ones, I think.
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Well, on paper, but Kyrie is very part time which is super on brand for the Lakers these days…but really, Lebron needs to be miserable in his final year(s) as penance for his Deshaun Watson dipshittery*
*cross-pollination talk- Lebron was one of a few complete fucking morons that expressed immediate and fawning praise for serial sexual-assailant Watson coming to the Browns because Watson is theoretically the best at playing QB the team has had since the guy they’re named for was coaching them
it would be a new record in inefficiency
John Wall, remember him? Gonna get 47M next season.
Eat shit, Fertitta
Yes and no. Ant looked even worse then cj at defense at times, but he’s also still super young with only 3/4 of a year with real minutes. CJ isn’t going to suddenly become a two way player. Ant still could. Better position to be in.
I agree though that norm would have been a great addition to the current lineup. Still missing someone who can actually play good one on one defense though. Which is pretty critical to building a good playoff defensive team.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
He's not the only one either, Shaq with "Ojew Anonombie" earlier this past season (starting at 44 seconds)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The only teams at this point that would want Kyrie, I feel like, is the aforementioned Lakers to get rid of Westbrook and the Knicks so they can say they signed a big free agent finally.
It's probably unfair to lump Harden in with the other two. Guy wanted to win, tried to put the team on his back, and then got fed up and left. Even Durant is not quite at the same level. He obviously has a minor self-perception/social media, but he's accomplished a lot and seems to be happy just hooping with his friends, crazy as they may be. So he's probably not leadership material, but at least he shows up to play.
It's really just Kyrie. He's a dumbass.
like god damn. anyone dumb enough to give up anything for him deserves everything they're going to get. houston gonna get some value from those picks/swaps
Has Harden shown up to training camp in shape once in the last 7 years? I agree Kyrie is a moron, but Harden has never had much work ethic and now it appears his body is falling apart.
He'd still probably be worth the headache if he actually played a full season of basketball.
He will never play a full season minus rest days ever. He will always miss time for injury. And feelings. And feelings he's lying about having, which is like its own time bank
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Probably a lot different but you can't discount a top 5 biggest shot in NBA history. He stared the unanimous MVP down and iced the game right in his face.
Its true, but its so much mystique and credibility built on one shot, when all evidence really points to clutch vs not clutch really being mostly random. It likely could have been many different people (but, of course, it actually was him, which does count on some level)
He has 2 team-killing flaws
1. Availability, even without the vaxx shit, dude is injury prone, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s played in less than 60% of his various teams’ games since joining the league
2. He makes everyone else on the team hate his fucking guts and just want to go fishing rather than keep playing during the late spring
It wasn't just that shot. He averaged 27.1 points that series on 47% shooting including .405 from three. For all the credit LeBron deserves for leading the Finals in every statistical category, Kyrie was the second best player in the series. He shot better than Curry everywhere, including the free-throw line, and even averaged more assists. He'll maybe never come close to that level again, but Cleveland doesn't pull off that upset without him. Not with Love averaging 8.5 a game and .263 from three.
To your point 1 - its more like 75% availability, with his least games per season coming in the past 3 seasons for Brooklyn - 20, 54 and 29 respectively. At least according to his wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrie_Irving#Regular_season
It's weird that Irving was never a big threat in transition considering he's one of the best, if not the best, at the rim finishers of his generation. Dude is an artist off the glass with either hand and from any angle.
No its, true, he definitely was incredible. Im not trying to say he wasnt really good when available, im just noticing that there have been a lot of really good guards who were incredible in their 20s, and flamed out by their 30sn but Kyrie gets put on another level from those guys (again, BD, Marbury, Francis, Penny) in large part because he played with Lebron and made best use of that opportunity in 1 or 2 seasons.
I mean, hes never really been a great player in any playoff series since he left, but he is still talked about like one of those guys who is a series/title decider.
Going from memory, he was great in his first playoff series with the Celtics (2019 vs Pacers), but he checked out versus the Bucks. Ever since then it’s been about availability (sometimes physical, but mostly mental), including playoffs.
Still 100% a dumbass, though. And his value as a player has to be taken in context of what he does to locker rooms and his actual availability (a.k.a. "the best ability"). If I had to choose between a player with 75% of Kyrie's on-court effectiveness and none of his other bullshit, I'd take that player every single time. Especially since they would likely come without a max contract and I could spend that cap space elsewhere.
I also think that his game is so aesthetically pleasing that people remember a lot of his greatest hits and forget all of the time it doesn't work out. It's like the Kobe thing. People are so enamored with the incredible difficult shots they make, they kind of neglect that such a diet of incredible shots often leads to average or below average efficiency. When it comes to winning, I prefer the player who can get easy looks (say, Lebron, Giannis) over the player who can make hard ones (Kobe, Kyrie).
Of course, if you can do both, that's the best of all worlds (Durant).
Easy Looks:
Lebron
Kawhi
Jokic
Giannis
DeMar
Morant
Booker
Jalen Brown
Shae
Lavine
PG
Beal
Hard Makes:
Kyrie
Dame
Trae Young
Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
KAT
Harden (Now)
Both:
Harden (Prime)
Durant
Curry
Luka
Embiid
Hard Looks and Easy Misses:
Westbrook
"Please Don't Make me Look":
Ben Simmons