[WH40K] Big Preview Tomorrow!

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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Seriously though I know asking for MORE space marines is a little much but would it kill them to make a not shit melee primaris Marine unit? Cause Reivers as is are kinda shit.


    italianranmaKetBraRedcoat-13
  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    Even with captains, I find plasma inceptors melt themselves pretty frequently. 2d3 shots is enough to roll a 1 into a 1 pretty reliably. I use one with my Deathwatch plasma squad and I'd say about half the time he blows himself up on the turn he lands.

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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Seriously though I know asking for MORE space marines is a little much but would it kill them to make a not shit melee primaris Marine unit? Cause Reivers as is are kinda shit.

    They could just make the rules for Reivers good, say in an updated Codex 2.0...?

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Seriously though I know asking for MORE space marines is a little much but would it kill them to make a not shit melee primaris Marine unit? Cause Reivers as is are kinda shit.

    They could just make the rules for Reivers good, say in an updated Codex 2.0...?

    I think the shock troops helps a bit by upping their attacks. There are a few of the custom chapter abilities that look good on them like the +3" range on weapons which gives you 9" grenades.

    Also the flying rhino might be an okay to deliver them up field quickly and cheaply*.

    *Cheaply for primaris where all their transports feel like they cost as much or more than a land raider.

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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Volume of attacks isn't the main problem. Primaris squads (intercessor sergeants excepted) never melee at above strength user and have no AP unless they are aggressors but those boys aren't exactly dudes you want in melee.


  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    They have a lot of trouble actually getting into melee, too. Comparing CC Marines to other army's run + charge 30+ inches, deep strike 3d6 charge, etc. etc.

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    So many army wide special rules.

    Atsknf
    Shock troops
    Bolter drill
    And now the doctrines.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Lots to digest in that preview. The Impulsor seems like what I expected. Enough room to put a squad of hellblasters + a reroll bot. Not sure what I think about the Incursor squad. The Infiltrator Comms array seems really strong. Getting the effect of a Phobos Lt/Capts bubbles anywhere on the battle field? I hope Intercessors and existing Primaris HQ's get some love in the codex, because that Comms array seems hard to pass up.

    Speaking of our conversation yesterday about Primaris AT, Eliminator Las fusil's are pretty decent. It's not a Las Cannon, but a squad of them can still put out some damage. Especially with the Sergeant adding 1 to their hit and wound rolls.

    The Angel of Death Doctrines seems pretty fun and good. It's a nice nod to how Space Marines are supposed to be tactically flexible.

    I am still kind of confused about the total lack of dedicated close combat units. Assault Doctrine certainly helps units like Reavers, and the Incursor squad seems to have some close combat capability. None of the classic Space Marine style assault troops though, no thunder hammers or stormshields (so still n Primaris Smash Captain). If not now with a brand new codex and wave of rules and units, when?

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    So uh am I reading this right and BA/DA/SW only get shock assault and not the new docterines? It doesn't say those three are getting angels of death, just shock assault to go with ATSKNF and Bolter Discipline.

    Also no updates to their tactics either? I may be wrong but that seems to be the read from the article.


  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2019
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    So uh am I reading this right and BA/DA/SW only get shock assault and not the new docterines? It doesn't say those three are getting angels of death, just shock assault to go with ATSKNF and Bolter Discipline.

    Also no updates to their tactics either? I may be wrong but that seems to be the read from the article.

    The first article they did on the new codex stuff said Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights get angels of death.

    Infiltrators are starting to turn into an auto take for me. Also need to get some new eliminators for the anti tank. Maybe incursors one day since the landmines seem fun.

    I also want some of the sneaky dreads, that seems so goofy.

    The new article reads like Space Wolves wont be able to use centurions or ironclad dreadnoughts which I guess makes sense since they removed the part of the first article that said players could drop Bjorn into battle using a storm raven or whatever it is.

    Stragint on
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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Today's Regimental Standard is all about the Guard equivalent of the Rubicon Primaris and how you can become bigger, better guardsmen for the Emperor.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Oh, I guess they confirmed Space Wolves will only get access to the new models listed in that article and wont get the stuff we didn't have before in the new codex.

    At least I don't need to buy that codex at all now.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    The Impulsor is a vehicle that dreams are made of. Everything in it can disembark after it moves naturally? It can have a 4++? I'd kill for that as an Eldar player.

    StragintBrainleechGnomeTank
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Lol let's see it's point cost first before we get too excited. And while disembarking after moving is nice, they added a caveat that you can't charge after disembarking. IMHO "open topped" is better than this rule by far.

    Note that they've added a few ways to disembark from vehicles after moving now and as far as I can tell none of them actually see play, the vehicles are just too expensive compared to infiltrating or deep striking with a command point or whatever.

    Mazzyx
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Also, calling it now that Hurricane Bolters with Bolter Discipline and -1 AP are going to give me PTSD. That's scary as shit on paper.

    Comparing this to the updated Chaos Marines Codex makes me feel really bad for Chaos players, too. They got nothing relative to this update.

    Mazzyx
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Also, calling it now that Hurricane Bolters with Bolter Discipline and -1 AP are going to give me PTSD. That's scary as shit on paper.

    Comparing this to the updated Chaos Marines Codex makes me feel really bad for Chaos players, too. They got nothing relative to this update.

    I mean as Chaos we get parts of this update. Supposedly the Angels of Death stuff is being translated to CSM as well per the first article. Just probably replacing ATSKNF with DttFE.

    I mean our line isn't being replaced from scratch with Chaos Primaris like loyalist are. My old CSM are still as good as they were 9 months ago *snorts*.

    Also we did get Lord Discordants. And now having done more than a few games with them verse guard, DA, nids, and a daemons list I can say they are amazing. And as good as everything I have seen in the new primaris line.

    Also Master of Executions if you haven't played with/against him yet is an amazing 70 points. Same with greater possessed.

    I am more annoyed my actual loyalist marine army gets none of the new toys except the tank because I play Deathwatch. The Phobos stuff screams deathwatch.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    I was already a bit flummoxed when Deathwatch didn't get access to the new units in Killteam elites. They seem much more up the Deathwatch alley than a new tank.

    KetBra
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    The Impulsor is a vehicle that dreams are made of. Everything in it can disembark after it moves naturally? It can have a 4++? I'd kill for that as an Eldar player.

    This would be cool for a falcon, raider, wave serpent, and venom. if they can disembark after it moves naturally and the armor save would be beyond awesome

    I really do want new aspect warriors for the eldar and a new avatar as last night I used the death world terrain {I have the stuff from kill team} in a slightly larger game than we normally play I used the avatar of yncarne. My brother made comments about the eldar ruins and how Yncarne makes the avatar look old

    As one of the comments he made was I have one of the Forgeworld books that has the Battle of Duriel that the deathworld terrain seems more fitting with the rapid growth of biomatter on a planet the tyranids begin assaulting with how it's covered with spikes or very viney.

    McGibs
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    Also there is no way the impulsor isn't a stupid amount of points with the cool gear on it. It's the primaris way!


    Lanlaorn
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    I’m a little miffed that we just got a fancy new CSM codex only for them to give the CSM new rules that will now not be in the fancy new codex.

  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    If an impulsor can get a squad of hellblasters + captain or agressors into range on turn 1, it will probobly be worth the 150+ pts or so.

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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    I've been saying it for a while, but I think they're in this slightly weird spot where their base cost needs to go up by 5-10 points but Splinter Cannons need to be reduced by 5 points as well. The current 75 point cost for the double Splinter Cannon loadout feels about right but the 65 point version is batshit cheap for how easily they can be spammed.

    Drukhari and Harlequins definitely need an overall points adjustment in this year's Chapter Approved, I'm still shocked that they didn't get tweaked at all in the 2018 one except for a random Fusion Pistol buff.

  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    I've been saying it for a while, but I think they're in this slightly weird spot where their base cost needs to go up by 5-10 points but Splinter Cannons need to be reduced by 5 points as well. The current 75 point cost for the double Splinter Cannon loadout feels about right but the 65 point version is batshit cheap for how easily they can be spammed.

    Drukhari and Harlequins definitely need an overall points adjustment in this year's Chapter Approved, I'm still shocked that they didn't get tweaked at all in the 2018 one except for a random Fusion Pistol buff.

    It’s kind of an odd thing where a Venom is like 10 points more than 5 warriors, but including its squad inside, has more shots, over double the movement, an invuln and -1 to hit.

    You will never see max troops choices simply because min+transport is strictly better.

    I feel like, just for fluff more than anything the raider needs to come down significantly. You should be seeing max warrior squads in those.

    italianranmaGnome-Interruptus
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    I've been saying it for a while, but I think they're in this slightly weird spot where their base cost needs to go up by 5-10 points but Splinter Cannons need to be reduced by 5 points as well. The current 75 point cost for the double Splinter Cannon loadout feels about right but the 65 point version is batshit cheap for how easily they can be spammed.

    Drukhari and Harlequins definitely need an overall points adjustment in this year's Chapter Approved, I'm still shocked that they didn't get tweaked at all in the 2018 one except for a random Fusion Pistol buff.

    The scuttle butt is that 2018 ca was mostly finished right after the release of the drukari codex so they didn't change points do to that. It was just too late.

    03x29di.png
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    I've been saying it for a while, but I think they're in this slightly weird spot where their base cost needs to go up by 5-10 points but Splinter Cannons need to be reduced by 5 points as well. The current 75 point cost for the double Splinter Cannon loadout feels about right but the 65 point version is batshit cheap for how easily they can be spammed.

    Drukhari and Harlequins definitely need an overall points adjustment in this year's Chapter Approved, I'm still shocked that they didn't get tweaked at all in the 2018 one except for a random Fusion Pistol buff.

    It’s kind of an odd thing where a Venom is like 10 points more than 5 warriors, but including its squad inside, has more shots, over double the movement, an invuln and -1 to hit.

    You will never see max troops choices simply because min+transport is strictly better.

    I feel like, just for fluff more than anything the raider needs to come down significantly. You should be seeing max warrior squads in those.

    A points reduction for Raiders feels pretty dangerous to me, they're already only 65 points before weapons. They definitely need something, though. There's just no reason to take them over Venoms.
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Having played against Druhkari more than a few times all I can say is fuck venoms. For their points cost they are beyond good.

    I've been saying it for a while, but I think they're in this slightly weird spot where their base cost needs to go up by 5-10 points but Splinter Cannons need to be reduced by 5 points as well. The current 75 point cost for the double Splinter Cannon loadout feels about right but the 65 point version is batshit cheap for how easily they can be spammed.

    Drukhari and Harlequins definitely need an overall points adjustment in this year's Chapter Approved, I'm still shocked that they didn't get tweaked at all in the 2018 one except for a random Fusion Pistol buff.

    The scuttle butt is that 2018 ca was mostly finished right after the release of the drukari codex so they didn't change points do to that. It was just too late.

    This is part of what shocks me! The Dark Eldar Codex came out eight months before Chapter Approved, that's a crazy lead-up time for balance changes. I get that books need time to be printed but that's a pretty strong argument for switching over to digital releases.

    Burnage on
    italianranmaMazzyx
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    I dunno if it's raiders are bad or venoms are too good. An invul, a -1 to hit, and open topped with decent weapon options? Why would you ever use anything else in that point range?

    Also according to the GW Facebook page DA/BA/SW do not get the new combat docterines, only the +1 attack on charge.
    true.png

    TheGerbil on

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Also, calling it now that Hurricane Bolters with Bolter Discipline and -1 AP are going to give me PTSD. That's scary as shit on paper.

    Comparing this to the updated Chaos Marines Codex makes me feel really bad for Chaos players, too. They got nothing relative to this update.

    Hurricane bolters on what? Raider? Dred? I thought Bolter Drill was nerfed to not include vehicles.

    Also, Chaos gets Angels of Death. That's a pretty nice gift for the time being. I'm actually interested in playing my Deathguard again.

  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    I dunno if it's raiders are bad or venoms are too good. An invul, a -1 to hit, and open topped with decent weapon options? Why would you ever use anything else in that point range?

    Also according to the GW Facebook page DA/BA/SW do not get the new combat docterines, only the +1 attack on charge.
    true.png

    Boo!

    Looks like I’m going to be starting that DA successor chapter quicker than I thought. What’s the reasoning behind that I wonder? It’s not like Inner Circle or Jink! are remotely close in power to Combat Doctrines.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2019
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    Also, calling it now that Hurricane Bolters with Bolter Discipline and -1 AP are going to give me PTSD. That's scary as shit on paper.

    Comparing this to the updated Chaos Marines Codex makes me feel really bad for Chaos players, too. They got nothing relative to this update.

    Hurricane bolters on what? Raider? Dred? I thought Bolter Drill was nerfed to not include vehicles.

    Centurions.

    McGibs on
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    No-Quarter
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    I basically have to go add a squad of Centurion Devastators now. They are really good as Ultramarines with Bobby G support and the doctrines. 18 -2 AP, re-rolling everything, shots in Devastator Doctrine? I'll have two.

    My assassins are being painted right now (and looking incredible), so I think the next commission I'm going to send to FLG is a squad of Devastators. I'll basically just plant them with Bobby G and some intercessor screen.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    I was thinking, maybe we're going to see 2.0 versions for the off-codex armies like DA, BA, GK, Deathwatch, etc? At least for DA it could coincide with the release of Mr. Lion El'Jonson himself. Maybe get those Infiltrators/Eliminators/etc. packaged with a new Vanguard Primaris upgrade sprue like the did for the original release. Do DA and Deathwatch have any big lore/model moments being hinted at? For Grey Knights I think we're going to get a third wave of new Primaris models featuring more Psykers in the same way that we got Stormcast Evocators, and that might coincide with a new codex/upgrade sprue for them.

    Yesterday with just the Angels of Death rules I would have been pretty happy as a DA player. But now in this new post-Combat Doctrines world I'm a little miffed! "If you give a mouse a cookie..." I guess.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    I was thinking, maybe we're going to see 2.0 versions for the off-codex armies like DA, BA, GK, Deathwatch, etc? At least for DA it could coincide with the release of Mr. Lion El'Jonson himself.

    Yeah, I'm guessing that this is the release path going forward now. Campaign books released every so often that give a bit of fluff and specialist detachments for a few different factions, then release windows for specific factions that give them a revised Codex and maybe some new models.

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I feel it's either going to be Vulkan or Jaghatai Khan as Leman and the Lion have to much tied up with each other
    The previous two have been hinted at far too much lately

  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Oh yeah sure, I wasn’t saying that Dark Angels would be next, only that maybe we can expect a full release for them and the other non-codex full releases. I just wonder if we’ll see new sculpts for them, Primaris or otherwise. Like, 10 years from now will Deathwing Knights still be in production or will some sort of Primaris Inner-Circle unit replace them?

    italianranma on
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  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Am I reading this new stuff right... a Crimson Fists Infiltrator unit with Marksman Bolt Carbines is double-tapping autowounds on 6s?

    Nealneal on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    I believe on a six he gets one auto-wound and one additional hit that you must roll to wound with. The additional hit is not an autowound because you didn't roll a six on its hit roll, it in fact had no hit roll whatsoever.

  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    Yeah, its probobly something they'll need to FAQ, but I don't think the argument for it autowounding is that good.

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  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    I definitely wouldn’t argue for it to go one way or the other.

    The only reason I even thought it might is because in my reading of the Crimson/Imperial Fist wording of “umodified hit rolls of 6 scores one additional hit,” I feel it implies the hit roll applies to both hits.

    Nealneal on
  • Halos Nach TariffHalos Nach Tariff Can you blame me? I'm too famous.Registered User regular
    For what it's worth Age of Sigmar has a lot of ways to get a similar combo of 6s resulting in extra hits and additional effects, and the FAQ there reads:

    Q: Sometimes a dice roll will trigger an effect. For example, a weapon might have a rule that says a hit roll of 6 causes two hits on the target instead of 1. What happens if another effect applies to the same roll? For example, the weapon from the previous example might have a rule that says it inflicts D6 mortal wounds on a hit roll of 6 and the attack sequence ends – would I get to inflict two hits that each inflicted D6 mortal wounds?
    A: When a dice roll triggers more than one effect, each effect is triggered once. For this example, this means that the hit roll would cause two hits, but only one of the hits would inflict D6 mortal wounds (you would carry out the rest of the attack procedure for the other hit normally).

    So I would imagine it would go the same way in 40k.



    NealnealitalianranmaH3Knuckles
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