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Dem Primary: Shut Up About 2016

BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising OddsRegistered User, Moderator mod
Seriously, we're just kicking people from the thread for doing it now. No warnings, just out on your ear.

Those of you who've picked up a lot of warnings and infractions in previous threads should be assured that getting immediately kicked will be your reward for continued dickery.

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Posts

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    Look at this shit

    z1kedkdyyoe2.jpeg

    This is either a real bumper sticker someone can get or something someone was passionate enough to make on their own

    Captain Inertia on
    wanderingzepherin
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    That's some serious "peak white people".

    Meanwhile, CBSNews reporter Cara Korte on a Sanders rally:


    Meanwhile, I find surprising how Harris has cratered on the polls. Guess that the "Copmala" attack line really had an impact since her polling with minorities is awful.

    TryCatcher on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    That's some serious "peak white people".

    Meanwhile, CBSNews reporter Cara Korte on a Sanders rally:


    Meanwhile, I find surprising how Harris has cratered on the polls. Guess that the "Copmala" attack line really had an impact since her polling with minorities is awful.

    Huh? Harris seems to be doing fine among minorities from the polling I've seen.

    Harris hasn't crated at all afaik. She was doing like second-tier, she got a bump from the first debate after having a go at Biden and then the bump faded and she's basically not done much since.

    Primarily I'd say she just hasn't made a good case for her candidacy. She got a bump and did nothing with it and so never went anywhere.

    jmcdonaldToxElldrenvalhalla130
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    Current RCP Average for what that's worth. Before the bump Harris was around 7. She bumped to around 15 and has slowly sunk back down. Warren started the season in single digits and has been slowly rising over time. Beto has been the opposite of Warren and slowly dropping from high single digits. Everyone else has stayed pretty much the same.

    Biden 27.9
    Warren 17.7
    Sanders 16.1
    Harris 6.0
    Buttigieg 5.7
    Yang 3.3
    O'Rourke 3.1
    Booker 2.7
    Gabbard 1.3
    Klobuchar 1.3
    Castro 1.1
    Steyer 0.8
    Bennet 0.7

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    I did see this article suggesting a slump on Iowa polling. Edit - in Harris's numbers, that is. Dunno how much significance to place in that though, I don't really follow the polling stuff too closely.

    Harris is unrepentantly pro-Israel at a time when some other candidates are moving away from uncritical support of their right wing government, which bothers me. From my cursory reading, her history as a prosecutor isn't a point in her favor either, though it didn't sound as terrible as it's sometimes made out to be. But as others have argued, she just has no compelling case for her candidacy. I'm not really sure where her support is coming from. People who want a moderate but not a white dude, maybe?

    Kaputa on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited September 19
    TryCatcher was warned for this.
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I did see this article suggesting a slump on Iowa polling. Dunno how much significance to place in that though, I don't really follow the polling stuff too closely.

    Harris is unrepentantly pro-Israel at a time when some other candidates are moving away from uncritical support of their right wing government, which bothers me. From my cursory reading, her history as a prosecutor isn't a point in her favor either, though it didn't sound as terrible as it's sometimes made out to be. But as others have argued, she just has no compelling case for her candidacy. I'm not really where her support is coming from. People who want a moderate but not a white dude, maybe?

    She's a prosecutor that jailed people for non-violent drug offenses....which means that she jailed a bunch of minorities, so the argument against her is that nobody wants to vote for the female Uncle Tom. A poll aggregator links a California poll post-debate and:

    ceres on
    Julius
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    People like cops. Even Democrats. Hell, last I checked a plurality of black people like cops. Harris' problem is that she hasn't made a case for herself as president. Biden is a return to normalcy, Warren is to fight corruption, Sanders is to help out the poor, Yang is to protect people against automation, O'Rourke is now to protect people from gun violence, Inslee was all about climate.

    I don't know what Harris' core message is.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    shrykeJusticeforPlutoArdoljoshofalltradesKasynwanderingjmcdonaldZonugalAistanA Kobold's KoboldSo It GoesMillElldrenMr Raymoniker
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    YamiB.
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    People like cops. Even Democrats. Hell, last I checked a plurality of black people like cops. Harris' problem is that she hasn't made a case for herself as president. Biden is a return to normalcy, Warren is to fight corruption, Sanders is to help out the poor, Yang is to protect people against automation, O'Rourke is now to protect people from gun violence, Inslee was all about climate.

    I don't know what Harris' core message is.

    Her message is that she's a cop or rather a DA that can bring Trump down. It's a mixed message because she runs from her record as much as she is selling that she can be a cop to Trumps criminal.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    YamiB.Styrofoam Sammich
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    I mean, she was a prosecutor, so no, she wasn't actually a cop. That's exactly what he's saying.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    1. She literally was not a cop and the equation is one of the reasons its comically weak and purely a bubble thing.
    2. They don't no. It was back filled as a reason for some but the penetration in the greater primary electorate of criticism of her record as a prosecutor was negligible.
    3. Even if it had been, a black woman being insufficiently progressive by some vague standard would not move a substantial amount of the electorate.
    4. She was a substantially progressive prosecutor.

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
    Stabbity StyleshrykeCelestialBadgerenlightenedbumArdoljmcdonaldMazzyxMan in the MistsAbsoluteZeroElldren
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    1. She literally was not a cop and the equation is one of the reasons its comically weak and purely a bubble thing.
    2. They don't no. It was back filled as a reason for some but the penetration in the greater primary electorate of criticism of her record as a prosecutor was negligible.
    3. Even if it had been, a black woman being insufficiently progressive by some vague standard would not move a substantial amount of the electorate.
    4. She was a substantially progressive prosecutor.

    She calls herself a cop. Its part of her campaign.

    YamiB.ShortyDouglasDangerZonugalpainfulPleasanceBloodsheedMegaMekrockrngerJulius
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    @MegaMan001
    I really don't understand how people without college educations fail to respond to Warren. She has one of the cleanest and most concise speaking styles that breaks down complex issues to simple to understand relationships.

    Her take down of how corporate greed and tax cuts are never going to get to most people is really well done, for example.

    Her messaging on corporate greed is also very easily understood, but much more nuanced than "You're getting fucked!"

    Responding to this from the last thread. It might be correlation with another number, which is that the more attention people are paying to the race, the better Warren does. Biden and Sanders do well with people who are not paying as much attention. Higher education tends to correlate with paying more attention to politics.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    shrykeNobeardCaptain InertiaMill
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    1. She literally was not a cop and the equation is one of the reasons its comically weak and purely a bubble thing.
    2. They don't no. It was back filled as a reason for some but the penetration in the greater primary electorate of criticism of her record as a prosecutor was negligible.
    3. Even if it had been, a black woman being insufficiently progressive by some vague standard would not move a substantial amount of the electorate.
    4. She was a substantially progressive prosecutor.

    Basically there is no indication the whole "Harris is a cop and bad" thing has any play outside of certain online circles. The idea that it's what is harming her does not seem well supported.

    PantsBSleepNobeardStabbity Stylejmcdonaldnever dieAbsoluteZeroA Kobold's KoboldFencingsaxElldren
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    I agree her failure to gain traction is more a symptom of lacking a message or niche and not her record but claims that criticisms of her record are bad faith or whatever are dumb.

    YamiB.ShortyKristmas KthulhuMagellKasynThe SauceZonugalpainfulPleasancenever dieLadaiBloodsheedMegaMekA Kobold's KoboldJuliusqwer12
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    The "Kamala is a cop!11!" thing is so internet bubble as to be a parody on the internet and irrelevant elsewhere.

    I have no idea what this means. Are you saying she wasnt actually a cop? That people didnt really have an issue with her record?

    1. She literally was not a cop and the equation is one of the reasons its comically weak and purely a bubble thing.
    2. They don't no. It was back filled as a reason for some but the penetration in the greater primary electorate of criticism of her record as a prosecutor was negligible.
    3. Even if it had been, a black woman being insufficiently progressive by some vague standard would not move a substantial amount of the electorate.
    4. She was a substantially progressive prosecutor.

    Basically there is no indication the whole "Harris is a cop and bad" thing has any play outside of certain online circles. The idea that it's what is harming her does not seem well supported.

    I'm not sure that the internet gaggle painting her as Judge Dredd in a skirt is helping her. They repeat that dumb cop meme so it's the first thing anyone knows about her.

  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Harris talking like a cop. Which I am fairly ambivalent about because her history is enough for her to not gain my vote.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/kamala-harris-trumps-rap-sheet-851501/
    “So, let’s read that rap sheet, shall we?” she began. “He asked black Americans, he said, what do you have to lose? Well, we know civil rights investigations are down, hate crimes are up, we had a lot to lose.
    She then exclaimed, “Let’s prosecute the case!” One thing is for certain after her performance today, Harris is going to fight hard for the nomination. And if she wins, Trump had better look out. A fire-breathing former attorney general wants to “prosecute the case.”

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    Captain Ironsides Commander ZoomshrykeKristmas KthulhuStabbity StyleMan in the MistsAbsoluteZeroElldrenAim
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    harris has referred to herself as a cop and was happy to drape herself in a police jacket for cameras when she was attorney general. not to mention all the people she got thrown in jail for bullshit crimes, or tried to keep imprisoned after their exoneration, or those she did her level best to keep from transitioning.

    when people call her a cop, it's a shorthand way to associate her with that law enforcement career. that's extremely obvious and the ongoing refusal to interpret that statement correctly is just hair splitting and pedantry.

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    Styrofoam SammichPhasenSleepYamiB.TryCatcherCommander ZoomKristmas KthulhukimeDouglasDangerZonugalpainfulPleasanceBloodsheedMegaMekMan in the MistsKayne Red RobeToxboogedyboodescJuliusjimb213qwer12TheDrifterMr Raypots+pans
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    YamiB.The SauceZonugalpainfulPleasanceJuliusqwer12
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    @MegaMan001
    I really don't understand how people without college educations fail to respond to Warren. She has one of the cleanest and most concise speaking styles that breaks down complex issues to simple to understand relationships.

    Her take down of how corporate greed and tax cuts are never going to get to most people is really well done, for example.

    Her messaging on corporate greed is also very easily understood, but much more nuanced than "You're getting fucked!"

    Responding to this from the last thread. It might be correlation with another number, which is that the more attention people are paying to the race, the better Warren does. Biden and Sanders do well with people who are not paying as much attention. Higher education tends to correlate with paying more attention to politics.

    I want to think more on this, but it makes me despair that people respond to clear and concise analysis of complex topics with, "She sounds like a teacher and that's bad!"

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    Nobeard
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I agree her failure to gain traction is more a symptom of lacking a message or niche and not her record but claims that criticisms of her record are bad faith or whatever are dumb.

    That’s not what people are saying though. They are saying the whole “Copmala” meme is not damaging her the way the internet would have you believe. Outside of here, Reddit, and Twitter I bet it would be very difficult to find someone who has even heard that nickname.

    SleepZomroNobeardshrykejmcdonaldEinzelQanamilForarAbsoluteZeroElldrenSiska
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    Let poor persecuted Trump go free!

  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    Let poor persecuted Trump go free!

    She won't be prosecuting him. The Democrats cant even muster a slap on the wrist. She is trying to sound like a cop.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    TryCatcherYamiB.Styrofoam SammichShortyCommander ZoomNobeardMagellKristmas KthulhuZonugalpainfulPleasanceCaptain InertiaBloodsheedMegaMekMan in the MistsJuliusqwer12Midnite
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    I'm all for Harris prosecuting Trump for his many crimes, it's just not a reason to have her be president. A president's job is not prosecution, it's managing a country. Be Special Prosecutor in Charge of Legally Eviscerating the Trump Organization in President notHarris' administration.

    steam_sig.png
    SleepCommander ZoomkimeZonugalpainfulPleasanceQuidMan in the MistsAtlas in ChainsElldrenSmrtnikqwer12
  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    What are the odds of the next nominee tapping her for AG?

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    minimal. I'm certain she'd much rather stay in the senate.

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    Styrofoam SammichDouglasDangerZonugalJuliusqwer12
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    Let poor persecuted Trump go free!

    "Trump should be prosecuted for his crimes" and "I'm a prosecutor vote for me Ill prosecute" arent exactly the same thing to me.

    SleepPhasenShortyCommander ZoomYamiB.KaputaKristmas KthulhuNiryapainfulPleasanceBloodsheedMan in the Mistsqwer12
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. like fire Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    Let poor persecuted Trump go free!

    you could at least try to pretend you have even a modicum of good faith in other posters

    like it's page one of the thread let's all be pleasant

    I needed a gnome to post. on
    kcGLHQJ.png
    Styrofoam SammichPhasenYamiB.kimeShortyZonugalNiryapainfulPleasanceBloodsheedMan in the MistsA Kobold's Kobold38thDoeqwer12Mr Ray
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Im fortunately spared having to determine whether Id vote for her or not given her polling.

    But yeah I pay way too much attention to the news and Im still pretty hazy on what she actually wants to do as president.

    YamiB.SleeppainfulPleasanceCaptain Inertiaqwer12
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    She needs to keep prosecuting Biden because that worked or her for a short while.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    KaputaCaptain InertiaNobeardMan in the MistsToxqwer12
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    .
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    What if it was towards bankers or oil executives? Are you going to claim with a straight face you would think a candidate who called for them to be prosecuted is gross?

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    .
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    What if it was towards bankers or oil executives? Are you going to claim with a straight face you would think a candidate who called for them to be prosecuted is gross?

    Like i said up thread "They should be prosecuted" and "Im a prosecutor vote for me Ill prosecute" arent the same thing to me.

    YamiB.DouglasDangerJulius
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    edited September 18
    PantsB wrote: »
    .
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    What if it was towards bankers or oil executives? Are you going to claim with a straight face you would think a candidate who called for them to be prosecuted is gross?

    Like i said up thread "They should be prosecuted" and "Im a prosecutor vote for me Ill prosecute" arent the same thing to me.

    The rhetoric of "I will prosecute the case of beating trump" is a muted rallying cry to "Oil executives knowingly poisoned the earth and should be prosecuted."

    Phasen on
    psn: PhasenWeeple
    Styrofoam SammichYamiB.MagellpainfulPleasanceMan in the MistsTox
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    .
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    What if it was towards bankers or oil executives? Are you going to claim with a straight face you would think a candidate who called for them to be prosecuted is gross?

    Like i said up thread "They should be prosecuted" and "Im a prosecutor vote for me Ill prosecute" arent the same thing to me.

    In what way?

    PantsBCelestialBadgerDouglasDanger
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    shryke wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    .
    So Harris wants to prosecute Trump and people hate her for that? Ugh. Seems good to me. If a President can't be prosecuted in office and can't be prosecuted out of office, what you have got is a King.

    I think the rhetoric is kind of gross tbh. Prosecutors routinely play the role of petty tyrant in America and wrapping yourself jn that flag will make me actively avoid voting for you.

    What if it was towards bankers or oil executives? Are you going to claim with a straight face you would think a candidate who called for them to be prosecuted is gross?

    Like i said up thread "They should be prosecuted" and "Im a prosecutor vote for me Ill prosecute" arent the same thing to me.

    In what way?

    No Im not particulalry interested in arguing this one out.

    Suffice it to say shes polling in single digits so Im spared having to decide whether her enthusiastic participation in a brutally unjust system precludes voting for her.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    KasynShorty
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    If liberals didn’t participate in the justice system we’d all be screwed when the 100% conservative judicial system passed whatever vile laws Trump could think of.

    You remain Pure by staying out of difficult roles in politics, but that doesn’t help anyone.

    PantsBIncenjucarSleepEinzelFencingsaxSmrtnikNinjeff
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Have there ever been any high ranking public defenders? I can't think of a one but rather than Harris I'd rather have someone like that.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    Kayne Red Robe
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    If liberals didn’t participate in the justice system we’d all be screwed when the 100% conservative judicial system passed whatever vile laws Trump could think of.

    You remain Pure by staying out of difficult roles in politics, but that doesn’t help anyone.

    I have nothing but praise for Krasner.

    Ladaizepherin
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