MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Too bad people took "A day where you can do anything is raw as fuck!" from the Purge and not "Rich people are the source of all society's ills"
+28
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Hell the First Purge is a big blinking neon sign at what those movies are about
+9
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
FBI intelligence about shootings at The Joker feels like internet bullshit at its finest.
Get enough assholes together who think it's funny to talk about a thing you will get on the radar and someone will read it and think, "Hey... That's a good idea."
The funny thing is that the Aurora shooting didnt have anything to do with the Joker. It was reported early on that the shooter was inspired by the Joker and that was picked up by the media without fact checking.
Todd Phillips is clearly having a good day as he had another interview with AP today and claimed it isn't fair that Joker is getting backlash when films like John Wick 3 aren't getting held to the same standard.
Which makes it very clear he is completely missing why people are upset and worried about Joker. It ain't just because it is a violent movie.
+15
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I will say this, I can understand his annoyance at all of these questions when people haven't seen the movie yet. If it comes out and it turns out that the movie doesn't glorify violence or lionize The Joker, I'd get annoyed with the constant line of questioning too.
But if it comes out and it does well... Then he is just missing the point.
I will say this, I can understand his annoyance at all of these questions when people haven't seen the movie yet. If it comes out and it turns out that the movie doesn't glorify violence or lionize The Joker, I'd get annoyed with the constant line of questioning too.
But if it comes out and it does well... Then he is just missing the point.
I will say this, I can understand his annoyance at all of these questions when people haven't seen the movie yet. If it comes out and it turns out that the movie doesn't glorify violence or lionize The Joker, I'd get annoyed with the constant line of questioning too.
But if it comes out and it does well... Then he is just missing the point.
I think regardless of annoyance it is an extremely petty thing to say the day that a bunch of the family members from Aurora saying watching the trailers for the film made them sick and terrified that more violence might happen.
He even prefaced the response by saying Aurora was a tragedy but then diving into "Wellllll actually it has nothing to do with Joker so it isn't fair to bring this up"
This goes back to his fuckin Do the Right Thing comparison
By all currently available sources (reviews, the leaked script, synopses of folks who saw it at the Venice Film Festival) Joker does not have a profound statement to make. It is not challenging an oppressive status quo or making controversial, challenging art to make people consider their own beliefs. It shows a mentally unstable, lonely white man who snaps and begins killing people including
a black woman who spurns his romantic advances
.
While there shouldn't be a law or rule against making a movie about that, but it is 100000000% fair to be questioned about whether or not it is a good or safe idea to do so in the world that we currently live in.
I will say this, I can understand his annoyance at all of these questions when people haven't seen the movie yet. If it comes out and it turns out that the movie doesn't glorify violence or lionize The Joker, I'd get annoyed with the constant line of questioning too.
But if it comes out and it does well... Then he is just missing the point.
I don’t think his anger is justified because when people first brought this concern to him he handled it in the worst possible way. He wants the prestige of dealing with a serious topic but doesn’t want to take responsibility for what that means. If the movie handles it well he could have said something about what he is trying to say With the movie and how it relates to the real world but he didn’t. He tried to dodge the question and said it “wasnt political”.
i have a lot of complicated thoughts regarding the joker movie that i really don't want to get into, but i will say that, whatever the aim was with the movie? todd phillips is absolutely not talented enough to make happen, which adds to the unease about the whole thing to begin with.
i don't think it's inherently fair to harangue any violent movie for being a reflection of modern day, but if you are making something with imitable violence, you better damn sure that
you know absolutely what you want to say/do with it
you are ready to explain it
like i get the impulse to just let the art speak for itself, but if you are sure of your intentions and they are being wildly mischaracterized, i'd think you'd want to correct it?
that's what gets the knot in my stomach -- i honestly don't know how much further behind "be a scorsese" this movie was thought about
i have a lot of complicated thoughts regarding the joker movie that i really don't want to get into, but i will say that, whatever the aim was with the movie? todd phillips is absolutely not talented enough to make happen, which adds to the unease about the whole thing to begin with.
i don't think it's inherently fair to harangue any violent movie for being a reflection of modern day, but if you are making something with imitable violence, you better damn sure that
you know absolutely what you want to say/do with it
you are ready to explain it
like i get the impulse to just let the art speak for itself, but if you are sure of your intentions and they are being wildly mischaracterized, i'd think you'd want to correct it?
that's what gets the knot in my stomach -- i honestly don't know how much further behind "be a scorsese" this movie was thought about
Even if you wanted to let the art speak for yourself I think just making it clear that he understood the weight of what he was doing could have let him avoid a lot of the attention he got.
For a movie that I actually like in the "violent white male loner snaps" genre, I would offer up Observe And Report. What I like about it is that the violent white male loner is pathetic and dangerous in pretty much equal balance. That he is a loser does not make the violence less horrifying, that he is violent does not make him less pathetic. I think that is a point of view, and a message, worth examining.
This balancing act is not possible in The Joker, no matter how well the movie itself is constructed. Because the character is so much bigger than the movie. He is on lunchboxes and t-shirts. You can walk into any Party City and buy a Joker costume. Even if the movie THINKS it is showing a pathetic man, the REST OF CULTURE undercuts that. Which warps the movie into, wittingly or not, saying, "Even if you SEEM pathetic, this sort of violence will let you build your own myth. You, too, can be on lunchboxes and t-shirts."
There's no details about the character but I kind of hope that the movie will make a point that Cruella welcomes all races into her dog coat enterprises
Todd Phillips is clearly having a good day as he had another interview with AP today and claimed it isn't fair that Joker is getting backlash when films like John Wick 3 aren't getting held to the same standard.
Which makes it very clear he is completely missing why people are upset and worried about Joker. It ain't just because it is a violent movie.
I would say john wick is a fair comparison and has a similar audience as the joker
Todd Phillips is clearly having a good day as he had another interview with AP today and claimed it isn't fair that Joker is getting backlash when films like John Wick 3 aren't getting held to the same standard.
Which makes it very clear he is completely missing why people are upset and worried about Joker. It ain't just because it is a violent movie.
I would say john wick is a fair comparison and has a similar audience as the joker
I would not, on the comparison point. Audience, sure.
John Wick is not grounded in reality. There are ancient assassin societies, katana motorcycle fights and borderline magic assassin skills.
Moreover, John Wick is not a very inimitable figure. He is a master assassin who retired and was dragged back into the life after his dog was murdered by Russian mobsters and kept in that life due to a life debt owed to a wealthy powerful assassin lord.
Joker is a sad lonely poor white man who tries to be a stand-up comic and fails and gets mocked for his failure and takes his rage out on people.
Which is something that is extremely grounded in reality.
Both are violent, but one is intentionally courting a grounded, intentionally realistic tone and the other is not even remotely trying to reflect reality
BlankZoe on
+22
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
"Hey do you feel like society is mocking you? Here is a dude who kills people because of it and it's super cool."
For a movie that I actually like in the "violent white male loner snaps" genre, I would offer up Observe And Report. What I like about it is that the violent white male loner is pathetic and dangerous in pretty much equal balance. That he is a loser does not make the violence less horrifying, that he is violent does not make him less pathetic. I think that is a point of view, and a message, worth examining.
This balancing act is not possible in The Joker, no matter how well the movie itself is constructed. Because the character is so much bigger than the movie. He is on lunchboxes and t-shirts. You can walk into any Party City and buy a Joker costume. Even if the movie THINKS it is showing a pathetic man, the REST OF CULTURE undercuts that. Which warps the movie into, wittingly or not, saying, "Even if you SEEM pathetic, this sort of violence will let you build your own myth. You, too, can be on lunchboxes and t-shirts."
Damn, this is an excellent analysis.
+20
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
I myself am still interested in seeing this Joker movie, and further I don’t much like the idea of blaming art for violence
But I can’t lie and say that there aren’t cogent points being made, or that there isn’t some responsibility on the part of the artist when they are creating something to be aware of both the cultural context as well as the literal one
Nothing is released in a vacuum. We can’t pretend like it is, particularly when the subject matter is fraught, or extreme
Is this Joker supposed to be the batman universe Joker? If so, I see less use for this movie than I did for Solo. I'll probably be skipping it, since the trailer didn't really do anything for me. I don't really care how the Joker became the Joker. I think that kind of misses the point of the character.
idk i've encountered too many dudes who bought guns because john wick was badass and treat it obnoxiously with the reputation things like fight club, tarantino movies, and the punisher have
that's a different flavor than the kind of stuff taxi driver/king of comedy/joker has going on but I don't think it's less concerning
For a movie that I actually like in the "violent white male loner snaps" genre, I would offer up Observe And Report. What I like about it is that the violent white male loner is pathetic and dangerous in pretty much equal balance. That he is a loser does not make the violence less horrifying, that he is violent does not make him less pathetic. I think that is a point of view, and a message, worth examining.
This balancing act is not possible in The Joker, no matter how well the movie itself is constructed. Because the character is so much bigger than the movie. He is on lunchboxes and t-shirts. You can walk into any Party City and buy a Joker costume. Even if the movie THINKS it is showing a pathetic man, the REST OF CULTURE undercuts that. Which warps the movie into, wittingly or not, saying, "Even if you SEEM pathetic, this sort of violence will let you build your own myth. You, too, can be on lunchboxes and t-shirts."
Honestly it was this post that got me thinking
Because the idea of this movie if it were some indie production being released in a few hundred theaters, versus this corporate juggernaut with millions in ad money behind it which is going to open in thousands of theaters, is indeed a very different context
Like if Joker came out as some Netflix Original I don’t know that it would be as big a deal, y’know
But that’s still different because the Joker is the Joker and not Michael Douglas in Falling Down, who has never been on a lunchbox that I have seen
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
Watching the Big Short. Never bothered before because I assumed a film about mortgages would be super boring, but it's really not. Wasn't expecting it to be funny. Gosling and Bale are pretty brilliant too.
+13
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
Well, shit. That stopped being funny pretty suddenly.
I like Neill and Dern a lot BECAUSE of Jurassic Park (and Event Horizon for Neill), but they came back for JP3 and it was crap, don't help them continue to tarnish the legacy guys (Note: I know they will).
I remain glad that JP1 is such a strong, stand-alone film as the rest have been terrible IMO.
For a movie that I actually like in the "violent white male loner snaps" genre, I would offer up Observe And Report. What I like about it is that the violent white male loner is pathetic and dangerous in pretty much equal balance. That he is a loser does not make the violence less horrifying, that he is violent does not make him less pathetic. I think that is a point of view, and a message, worth examining.
This balancing act is not possible in The Joker, no matter how well the movie itself is constructed. Because the character is so much bigger than the movie. He is on lunchboxes and t-shirts. You can walk into any Party City and buy a Joker costume. Even if the movie THINKS it is showing a pathetic man, the REST OF CULTURE undercuts that. Which warps the movie into, wittingly or not, saying, "Even if you SEEM pathetic, this sort of violence will let you build your own myth. You, too, can be on lunchboxes and t-shirts."
Honestly it was this post that got me thinking
Because the idea of this movie if it were some indie production being released in a few hundred theaters, versus this corporate juggernaut with millions in ad money behind it which is going to open in thousands of theaters, is indeed a very different context
Like if Joker came out as some Netflix Original I don’t know that it would be as big a deal, y’know
But that’s still different because the Joker is the Joker and not Michael Douglas in Falling Down, who has never been on a lunchbox that I have seen
he makes his thoughts on lunch very clear in the movie
+3
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I like Neill and Dern a lot BECAUSE of Jurassic Park (and Event Horizon for Neill), but they came back for JP3 and it was crap, don't help them continue to tarnish the legacy guys (Note: I know they will).
I remain glad that JP1 is such a strong, stand-alone film as the rest have been terrible IMO.
I actually think the second one is a bit better than people often say but yeah it's a shame how the franchise has turned out
+16
BhowSunny day, sweeping the clouds away.On my way to where the air is sweet.Registered Userregular
Watched Last Crusade again because it's in the thread title.
A) good decision. didn't realize Tom Stoppard had last pass at the script and is responsible for most, if not all, of the Jones - Jones dialogue. Which lead me to this article comparing the final script to an earlier draft. Lots of good analysis of why cuts were made and how many small changes can have a huge impact. (Probably old news for regulars here, but in case anyone missed it since 2016.)
As a story progresses, stakes grow. Obstacles get harder. Time runs out. Last Crusade’s first act follows Indy searching for his father. Boam’s draft kicks this off with an early proof of danger: still in America, Indy and Brody find a murdered housekeeper in Henry’s backyard. They now know this is life-or-death.
Yet, once in Venice, they adopt a breezy mood and Indy flirts with Elsa. You’d think he’d mobilize the police to find his dad, but there he is, drinking wine and taking his time. Stoppard’s revised draft loses the corpse and delays Indy’s first encounter with danger until after he’s found the knight’s tomb. This bestows an escalation: at first it’s a mystery, then it’s a life-or-death struggle.
I hope Sam Neil and Laura Dern and Jeff Goldblum have a warm reunion even amongst the horror of dinopocalypse and are immediately ANNIHILATED by big fucking dinosaurs like six tyrannosauruses show up to give each of them the Richard Schiff treatment
Posts
Get enough assholes together who think it's funny to talk about a thing you will get on the radar and someone will read it and think, "Hey... That's a good idea."
https://www.denverpost.com/2015/09/18/meyer-the-james-holmes-joker-rumor/amp/
Which makes it very clear he is completely missing why people are upset and worried about Joker. It ain't just because it is a violent movie.
But if it comes out and it does well... Then he is just missing the point.
The trailers are enough
I told myself I wasn't going to get into discussion about The Joker until it comes out so disregard.
People who HAVE seen the movie have these concerns. The bit you're doing is not very good.
Everything is a bit.
Good bit!
He even prefaced the response by saying Aurora was a tragedy but then diving into "Wellllll actually it has nothing to do with Joker so it isn't fair to bring this up"
This goes back to his fuckin Do the Right Thing comparison
By all currently available sources (reviews, the leaked script, synopses of folks who saw it at the Venice Film Festival) Joker does not have a profound statement to make. It is not challenging an oppressive status quo or making controversial, challenging art to make people consider their own beliefs. It shows a mentally unstable, lonely white man who snaps and begins killing people including
While there shouldn't be a law or rule against making a movie about that, but it is 100000000% fair to be questioned about whether or not it is a good or safe idea to do so in the world that we currently live in.
I don’t think his anger is justified because when people first brought this concern to him he handled it in the worst possible way. He wants the prestige of dealing with a serious topic but doesn’t want to take responsibility for what that means. If the movie handles it well he could have said something about what he is trying to say With the movie and how it relates to the real world but he didn’t. He tried to dodge the question and said it “wasnt political”.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
i don't think it's inherently fair to harangue any violent movie for being a reflection of modern day, but if you are making something with imitable violence, you better damn sure that
like i get the impulse to just let the art speak for itself, but if you are sure of your intentions and they are being wildly mischaracterized, i'd think you'd want to correct it?
that's what gets the knot in my stomach -- i honestly don't know how much further behind "be a scorsese" this movie was thought about
Even if you wanted to let the art speak for yourself I think just making it clear that he understood the weight of what he was doing could have let him avoid a lot of the attention he got.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
This balancing act is not possible in The Joker, no matter how well the movie itself is constructed. Because the character is so much bigger than the movie. He is on lunchboxes and t-shirts. You can walk into any Party City and buy a Joker costume. Even if the movie THINKS it is showing a pathetic man, the REST OF CULTURE undercuts that. Which warps the movie into, wittingly or not, saying, "Even if you SEEM pathetic, this sort of violence will let you build your own myth. You, too, can be on lunchboxes and t-shirts."
There's no details about the character but I kind of hope that the movie will make a point that Cruella welcomes all races into her dog coat enterprises
I would say john wick is a fair comparison and has a similar audience as the joker
John Wick is not grounded in reality. There are ancient assassin societies, katana motorcycle fights and borderline magic assassin skills.
Moreover, John Wick is not a very inimitable figure. He is a master assassin who retired and was dragged back into the life after his dog was murdered by Russian mobsters and kept in that life due to a life debt owed to a wealthy powerful assassin lord.
Joker is a sad lonely poor white man who tries to be a stand-up comic and fails and gets mocked for his failure and takes his rage out on people.
Which is something that is extremely grounded in reality.
Both are violent, but one is intentionally courting a grounded, intentionally realistic tone and the other is not even remotely trying to reflect reality
Damn, this is an excellent analysis.
But I can’t lie and say that there aren’t cogent points being made, or that there isn’t some responsibility on the part of the artist when they are creating something to be aware of both the cultural context as well as the literal one
Nothing is released in a vacuum. We can’t pretend like it is, particularly when the subject matter is fraught, or extreme
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
that's a different flavor than the kind of stuff taxi driver/king of comedy/joker has going on but I don't think it's less concerning
I think its slightly less dangerous than "these people are making fun of you, kill them" but it still ain't great
Honestly it was this post that got me thinking
Because the idea of this movie if it were some indie production being released in a few hundred theaters, versus this corporate juggernaut with millions in ad money behind it which is going to open in thousands of theaters, is indeed a very different context
Like if Joker came out as some Netflix Original I don’t know that it would be as big a deal, y’know
But that’s still different because the Joker is the Joker and not Michael Douglas in Falling Down, who has never been on a lunchbox that I have seen
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I'm assuming they're all going to be in one 3 minute scene and peace out for the rest of the movie
Steam
This tweet forgot to mention that Colin Trevorrow is directing.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I remain glad that JP1 is such a strong, stand-alone film as the rest have been terrible IMO.
he makes his thoughts on lunch very clear in the movie
I actually think the second one is a bit better than people often say but yeah it's a shame how the franchise has turned out
A) good decision.