I would say usually PvP is a good time, recently it feels like it's all sweats... But that might just be my ELO. I think the only people left playing PvP casually are pretty hardcore and roll in groups to farm their K/D's higher. Tbh we had a lot of good games despite getting rolled against the same 5-6 stack multiple times as a team of 3 + randoms.
Idk it's to the point I actually enjoy Comp more because I can thrive there in that playstyle, rather than it being a full ape team of Shotties/Erentil and our team continually giving up heavy... Yeah naw. I'm hyped for Trials to come back so the 6v6 playlists will mellow out some.
I know they don't want to split into more queues or whatever - but if they had a "Comp" queue for all major game modes I would play it a lot more. If there was a Competitive queue for Control, for instance. You go in know people are going to be playing the sweatiest of loadouts but at least you have fun if its a mode you like. I don't enjoy survival as a play mode so I'm only even going to play comp as much as I have to.
On the one hand I'd say it'd be nice if the Comp queue rotated game modes per-season but on the other hand if that happened it would eventually come around to modes I despise, so...
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Thanks, after some issues I finally got it to work.
As for Scout Rifles... the new exotic one, Symmetry, is nasty in the best way. A fairly solid scout just on its own, the alt-fire without any of the buff is a very heavily tracking projectile. And when you take the buff from getting precision hits into consideration? It's a monster! Particularly in PvP, in fact. As you only need 3-4 stacks to really see the benefit.
I usually like to keep that in my kinetic slot but I've been seeing too many good weapons in energy slots that use regular ammo to keep that up. I'll just have to look for something that uses special ammo to use in the kinetic slot (I like to keep a loadout that doesn't eliminate special ammo so I never have to scrounge for shotgun/sniper rifle ammo). Because I have Symmetry, I also want the catalyst, and man is it taking forever just to get that (and then apparently it's another 700 enemies killed with that weapon before it's ready to go).
The things one does for fun weapons.
Also, it looks like I have to choose only one exotic weapon/armor piece?
While I've not done a lot of it so far, yet. I'd honestly recommended giving Crucible/Gambit a try. I feel weird even calling it "PvP". It's pure, FPS goodness. Guess if you get mad about dying it'll be a shitty time, but otherwise the sheer absurdity that can happen is worth it alone.
Well that and Shaxx. Hearing Shaxx's praise will make you spontaneously grow a beard.
Shaxx notwithstanding, I'm totally not interested in the FPS shoot em up arena play with others. Not usually, certainly not right now. I'm the game player who doesn't even like casual fighting game bouts with friends for more than 30-60 minutes every few months regardless of if I'm winning or losing. Most PvP gameplay of any kind just isn't interesting or engaging for me.
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If the problem with the edz dial really is people in the zone who haven't unlocked it, then 90% of the people who visit the gulch have not done the dial.
Which seems like it might say something notable about whether people are really doing the seasonal stuff.
What it most certainly says, is that it is dumb as shit that nearly a month can go by of a 3 month season and an absolutely required feature remains broken.
If the problem with the edz dial really is people in the zone who haven't unlocked it, then 90% of the people who visit the gulch have not done the dial.
Which seems like it might say something notable about whether people are really doing the seasonal stuff.
What it most certainly says, is that it is dumb as shit that nearly a month can go by of a 3 month season and an absolutely required feature remains broken.
I hadn't even had it unlocked until . . . Friday? Sunday? Hell, I think I did the first Sundial run to unlock the lantern and all the rest of that stuff about a day or two before that. I honestly keep forgetting they exist until I see the stuff to unlock them in my inventory and think "shit, right, that."
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I would say usually PvP is a good time, recently it feels like it's all sweats... But that might just be my ELO. I think the only people left playing PvP casually are pretty hardcore and roll in groups to farm their K/D's higher. Tbh we had a lot of good games despite getting rolled against the same 5-6 stack multiple times as a team of 3 + randoms.
Idk it's to the point I actually enjoy Comp more because I can thrive there in that playstyle, rather than it being a full ape team of Shotties/Erentil and our team continually giving up heavy... Yeah naw. I'm hyped for Trials to come back so the 6v6 playlists will mellow out some.
I know they don't want to split into more queues or whatever - but if they had a "Comp" queue for all major game modes I would play it a lot more. If there was a Competitive queue for Control, for instance. You go in know people are going to be playing the sweatiest of loadouts but at least you have fun if its a mode you like. I don't enjoy survival as a play mode so I'm only even going to play comp as much as I have to.
Without incentives I don't think this would work. People are using lfg sites to put together teams specifically to farm for KD and roll people. I don't think "sweaty" players would go in a "sweaty players here" playlist without a really good reason. I do think stuff like momentum control that forces a break in the meta makes more sense. Create a double primary playlist, bring back rift or a mode with vehicles or some more objective focused mode, artificially make people change their habits.
If the problem with the edz dial really is people in the zone who haven't unlocked it, then 90% of the people who visit the gulch have not done the dial.
Which seems like it might say something notable about whether people are really doing the seasonal stuff.
What it most certainly says, is that it is dumb as shit that nearly a month can go by of a 3 month season and an absolutely required feature remains broken.
Most people probably aren't using the turn back the clock gimmick to "fix" it. That and this season....
All my fireteam except one guy got season pass level 100 last season. This season, two have played like a few days, two are in the 20s, and two of us are psychotic and 100 or higher.
When you get down to it, while the sundial event is superior to the Vex Offensive, once you run it a few times, that's it, and weapons in Destiny are really just archetypes with the numbers fiddled around for the hardcores / the casuals don't go for god rolls.
I know raids are also not done by the majority, but with the way we fell in power level, only to re-grind, it also killed a lot of the urgency to grind because they're just going to do it again next season. I really think resetting numbers backwards was a huge mistake.
Season of Dawn is better than Undying, but...it's not really a ton to do.
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I would say usually PvP is a good time, recently it feels like it's all sweats... But that might just be my ELO. I think the only people left playing PvP casually are pretty hardcore and roll in groups to farm their K/D's higher. Tbh we had a lot of good games despite getting rolled against the same 5-6 stack multiple times as a team of 3 + randoms.
Idk it's to the point I actually enjoy Comp more because I can thrive there in that playstyle, rather than it being a full ape team of Shotties/Erentil and our team continually giving up heavy... Yeah naw. I'm hyped for Trials to come back so the 6v6 playlists will mellow out some.
I know they don't want to split into more queues or whatever - but if they had a "Comp" queue for all major game modes I would play it a lot more. If there was a Competitive queue for Control, for instance. You go in know people are going to be playing the sweatiest of loadouts but at least you have fun if its a mode you like. I don't enjoy survival as a play mode so I'm only even going to play comp as much as I have to.
Without incentives I don't think this would work. People are using lfg sites to put together teams specifically to farm for KD and roll people. I don't think "sweaty" players would go in a "sweaty players here" playlist without a really good reason. I do think stuff like momentum control that forces a break in the meta makes more sense. Create a double primary playlist, bring back rift or a mode with vehicles or some more objective focused mode, artificially make people change their habits.
I'm all for having it reward glory - as it would be a Comp playlist. I'm just saying there should be a version of other game modes that offer a comp version. You can play a altered competitive version of a mode you enjoy. Yeah everyone in there is going to be going full meta probably (compared to the valor playlist) but that's what I would expect in the mode and that's ok.
Just make the Crucible splash page have a valor rewarding sub section and a glory rewarding subsection and you can choose the mode you would like to play under each.
I think it's more that the community seems to lean towards PvE content (which, no new raid this season) and the PvP "content" has been pretty thin for the last 2 years, aside from the Pinnacle/Ritual stuff. I don't think the general community gets all that hyped for IB anymore, especially without any new armor. It's why we're so hungry for Trials. The PvP community is there but without new things to do each week, people fall off. I literally have every PvP reward in the game at the moment, I need a new carrot to chase.
It's funny because before SK they hyped up their renewed focus on PvP. So far that's meant a balance patch and a new... Old map. It feels like they're holding out on Trials in hopes any nasty cheat/exploits pop up in the Elim playlist first, or that they're reading one last balance patch before Trials.
Season of Dawn is like way better then Season of Undying but Undying was propped up by Shadowkeep dropping. If you did most of the stuff last season, there's not a ton of things to do this new season beyond grinding out some new seasonal bounties, which takes little time, and grinding out new Sundial weapons and armour, which is kinda neat but suffers from the problems with the armour system, inventory size and not really having anything to do with the new weapons.
I'm hoping Heroic Sundial gives us something new to do. And there's supposed to be some other new shit too it seems, judging by the triumphs that are still secret.
If the problem with the edz dial really is people in the zone who haven't unlocked it, then 90% of the people who visit the gulch have not done the dial.
Which seems like it might say something notable about whether people are really doing the seasonal stuff.
What it most certainly says, is that it is dumb as shit that nearly a month can go by of a 3 month season and an absolutely required feature remains broken.
The Tower one had the same issue but I've noticed that has gone from irritating to almost never being locked out over the last 2 weeks or so. I wonder if it's just something weird with so many new players in the EDZ.
I don't know, but thankfully I got it to 11 and never need to go back.
Season of Dawn is like way better then Season of Undying but Undying was propped up by Shadowkeep dropping. If you did most of the stuff last season, there's not a ton of things to do this new season beyond grinding out some new seasonal bounties, which takes little time, and grinding out new Sundial weapons and armour, which is kinda neat but suffers from the problems with the armour system, inventory size and not really having anything to do with the new weapons.
I'm hoping Heroic Sundial gives us something new to do. And there's supposed to be some other new shit too it seems, judging by the triumphs that are still secret.
Yeah, Dawn has a far better "loop" than Undying did. The problem is that since things are "structured" around leveling the season pass - there is a significant portion of people who were fine with doing that the first time...not so much the second or third time.
The "quality" of pvp and the meta that existed in D1 helped keep people engaged in between content drops in year 1, 2 and 3. Because ultimately if you only do PvE you are gonna hit a point where you are doing the same 2 or 3 things every week with very little new rewards available. The seasons are supposed to help solve this. They do some what, but replace one issue with another-FOMO. On top of that they have to thread the needle on how powerful or useful to make the seasonal items since they go away in a few months and now people starting don't have access to them. So if something becomes "meta" because of its quality you have a stark divides between the "have and have nots".
Going back to the first point - with PvP being...(arguably)"less than" it was in D1 as far as enjoyment and satisfaction across the player base goes, things become stale much quicker for a larger portion of the population in despite of, and sometimes because of, the seasonal structure.
I would say the PvP is still in a pretty good place as far as how it feels to play, it's pretty dang fun and I don't want them to change too much. The Erentil nerf feels inevitable, and other than that I don't actually think I want them to fiddle with much else. I think PvP is just not friendly to new players, and there's a lot of folks who don't feel the need to engage with it/hate it outright.
To retain the people they do have though, they should have something for us to chew on. I'd like to think people will return in a big way for Trials, but who knows.
I really think that it was a big mistake to grant power via XP accumulated in the season and then to take it away prior to every new season.
I get why they did it. It makes sense. It's extremely defensible.
But, psychologically, it makes it feel like the player progressed and then was thrown back through no fault of their own as opposed to always progressing.
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I would say the PvP is still in a pretty good place as far as how it feels to play, it's pretty dang fun and I don't want them to change too much. The Erentil nerf feels inevitable, and other than that I don't actually think I want them to fiddle with much else. I think PvP is just not friendly to new players, and there's a lot of folks who don't feel the need to engage with it/hate it outright.
To retain the people they do have though, they should have something for us to chew on. I'd like to think people will return in a big way for Trials, but who knows.
I don't hate PvP right now or anything. But the meta to me is just...boring. Seeing, on average, the same 2ish loadouts on 9-10 people each game means that there isn't much fun to have if you want to be competitive. When I try out a goofy loadout just to change up the pace I know I'm going to get abused at my middling level of play by everyone else in the lobby that wouldn't dare switch from their Dust Rock and Not Forgotten. Shit I've been excited the last few games to see Crimson and Thorn again.
Not to mention that 90% of the matches I play in have 10 or 11 slots out of 12 filled by Hunters. It just gets...old.
Trials isn't my thing - but I hope they bring it back for the people that love it. I feel like it satisfies a smaller portion of the population than people think it does BUT has a much larger impact on the community as a whole through its existence and how people interact with the people that actually play it at a significant level.
Given how long the load times are with console, PvP needs better rewards. Why resetting Glory doesn't net a Pinnacle is beyond me. Even that would help.
I need instant load times or better rewards. Otherwise, the meta doesn't really bother me (except for Hunters being everywhere / the legs on Hunters that blind my radar from stupid range / the artifact mod with overshield that seems explicitly for hunters).
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I really think that it was a big mistake to grant power via XP accumulated in the season and then to take it away prior to every new season.
I get why they did it. It makes sense. It's extremely defensible.
But, psychologically, it makes it feel like the player progressed and then was thrown back through no fault of their own as opposed to always progressing.
I find the "thrown back" aspect to be barely noticeable. It applies to, like, the raid and a few other activities and that's it. And it's nice to have a tract to progress along and get rewards from again, at least for a bit.
Given how long the load times are with console, PvP needs better rewards. Why resetting Glory doesn't net a Pinnacle is beyond me. Even that would help.
I need instant load times or better rewards. Otherwise, the meta doesn't really bother me (except for Hunters being everywhere / the legs on Hunters that blind my radar from stupid range / the artifact mod with overshield that seems explicitly for hunters).
Because they don't want pinnacle rewards to be infinitely farmable.
I'm so very tired of the meta that gets run in PVP.
I remain an edge case who while I enjoy post-Shadowkeep PVP, I also enjoyed D2Y1 PVP. And every time I get instant-headshot sniped during super activation from someone who has a sniper that reloads itself when you miss, killed by a curving Warcliff projectile, murdered by a Dustrock-hunter whom is always above me and my FOV cannot see them (who probably also claims their class is weak), mapped by Erentil at a frankly absurd range, or play a match where 80% of the teams are all hunters, I just get…. Annoyed.
Each of those things by themselves isn't annoying, but in combination it makes me long for a mode where special doesn't drop, or a season where the weapon meta is shaken up, or an incentive loop that encourages playing with different weapons (season stuff for Randys and Komodo at least introduce mix-up) or like a buff to Resilience for gods sake….
It's just getting stale. And I thrive on change, and the mix-up between Y2 and Y3 isn't significant enough right now. Part of that is lack of loot/play incentive. Part of that is stale meta. And part of that is stale modes. I don't know that I want Trials back, but at least it would shake things up. But I feel the meta will metastasize even more in Trials, like how Survival is starting to grow rough some times.
Then again, part of that is me just not mixing up myself. I need to bust out of Doomfangs Aggressor, and need to practice with SMGs or Sidearms instead of Shotties (since they seemingly suck for me now).
I'd just like kill for a match with no hunters, no snipers, no ridiculous Heavy, SMGs/Final Destination only.
Given how long the load times are with console, PvP needs better rewards. Why resetting Glory doesn't net a Pinnacle is beyond me. Even that would help.
I need instant load times or better rewards. Otherwise, the meta doesn't really bother me (except for Hunters being everywhere / the legs on Hunters that blind my radar from stupid range / the artifact mod with overshield that seems explicitly for hunters).
Because they don't want pinnacle rewards to be infinitely farmable.
So make it the first reset of the week. I don't see this as being an insurmountable problem or an unreasonable thing to ask.
Edit: and I should be clear that I don't think you think that Shryke but the reluctance to make PvP rewarding in pretty basic ways is baffling and frustrating.
I've only unlocked two of the sundial things - Tangled Shore and Mars. Granted, I rarely go to the EDZ unless I'm there for some other reason, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of folks either are apathetic about the current season tasks, or they don't understand what to do. Also, EDZ is the first area new players are dropped in to so I'd guess that the percentage of people who haven't connected with the game is much higher there.
I'm sitting at season rank 56, which seems mind boggling to me. I barely hit 100 last season.
I'm with @squall99x about Survival. It's not a mode that I enjoy. I'd much rather play just about anything else in competitive. Having said that, I won two matches back-to-back last night and with the bonus Glory from the reset, I'm up to 1562. I might get that Recluse yet!!
I find the "thrown back" aspect to be barely noticeable. It applies to, like, the raid and a few other activities and that's it. And it's nice to have a tract to progress along and get rewards from again, at least for a bit.
It is barely noticeable, but that's why I'm stressing the psychological aspect. I was 981, now I'm suddenly 960 again, now it's been a month and I'm still below 981 etc. Part of that is me not giving a shit enough to hit the raid / Nighhtfalls / Pit of Heresy again, admittedly, since I'm already at +17 from the artifact, but it's still a path I've already tread....and I've gotten a LOT of XP. Casuals won't even be close to +17. Does it matter for anything except 980 nightfalls or Nightmare Hunts? No.
But it's a path already tread. Psychologically, it's very bad.
Like I said, for this, I get why they did it. I'm actually not insulting Bungie here. The thought process is pretty clear and defensible. I still think it's a big mistake.
Because they don't want pinnacle rewards to be infinitely farmable.
The amount of PvP you'd have to do on non-double weeks would be insane for this to be an issue as the ranking is shared among all three characters. You can farm pinnacle rewards MUCH faster using three characters and hitting all of the options than PvP would ever be. I don't really consider the infinitely farmable bit a valid objection compared to all of the other Pinnacle opportunities.
Or, like Peen said, limit it to once a week.
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Because they don't want pinnacle rewards to be infinitely farmable.
The amount of PvP you'd have to do on non-double weeks would be insane for this to be an issue as the ranking is shared among all three characters. You can farm pinnacle rewards MUCH faster using three characters and hitting all of the options than PvP would ever be. I don't really consider the infinitely farmable bit a valid objection compared to all of the other Pinnacle opportunities.
Or, like Peen said, limit it to once a week.
The first paragraph is the problem with the second imo. It's still infinitely farmable, it's just also a ridiculous grind. It's the worst of both options.
I think what the goal is there, and imo what you want from the system, is for pinnacles to be limited in number and not take a huge time commitment. And that's what most of them are right now, barring IB once per month. It's generally like an hour or two per pinnacle source in terms of commitment and there's a small number of them available. So even if you don't play much you can still bang them all out every week on 1 character without too much hassle. Which means you are evening out the power gain between players that play different amounts fairly well.
Giving one for a valour reset locks it behind a huge timesink that most people aren't going to be able to do and so PvP still effectively has no pinnacle reward unless you are a poopsocker. It doesn't actually help your average PvP player. But it gives the crazy fuckers a way to farm infinite pinnacle rewards over and over again. God, just imagine the exploits.
This is honestly one of the big reasons they should bring Trials back. It would provide an obvious place to put a weekly PvP pinnacle reward. Or they could just tie to to comp matches too or something I guess, but Trials seems a bit more of a natural place for it.
Well, it depends what you mean by "what you want" from the system. What I want is just a reward for normal PvP play. The actual time commitment I could give a shit less about. If it requires a poopsock, it requires a poopsock. I am satisfied as long as the possibility existed. That's why I loved Prime Engrams and was pissed when I found out they were rationed per day. Even if it was a 1% chance of progressing, I wanted it. I don't like artificial timegating.
There are zero real rewards for playing casual PvP. I honestly consider a Pinnacle at reset to be a token offer at best, but one I'm fine with even though it pales in comparison to PvE. A pinnacle at reset for PvP still pales with the massive amount of Pinnacles you can haul in running PvE with three characters.
If anything, this new system is a departure from the past. Before Pinnacles became a thing, you got a Powerful Reward for every full tier cleared in Destiny 2. You and I are debating Pinnacles at a reset. You'd get a ton of Powerful rewards for not even resetting prior! They effectively took rewards away from PvP and added them to PvE with the new system.
Giving one for a valour reset locks it behind a huge timesink that most people aren't going to be able to do and so PvP still effectively has no pinnacle reward unless you are a poopsocker. It doesn't actually help your average PvP player. But it gives the crazy fuckers a way to farm infinite pinnacle rewards over and over again. God, just imagine the exploits.
This is honestly one of the big reasons they should bring Trials back. It would provide an obvious place to put a weekly PvP pinnacle reward. Or they could just tie to to comp matches too or something I guess, but Trials seems a bit more of a natural place for it.
The two bolded don't seem to line up, either. Trials is far and away not a casual PvP list. I don't disagree that it should give Pinnacles there, mind you. It should. Giving it only there and not in the casual PvP is borderline offensive to me. Making it by comparison a much lower time sink to get them is even fine with me, it's a much harder list, but to ignore the casual PvP lists where the majority of the players are?
Not to mention, with DDOS'ng and PvP cheating being far more prevalent in comp style playlists, it also doesn't line up well with your first bolded of "imagine the exploits".
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For PVP, I just want them to un-fuck warlocks. Right now, we have:
1 completely viable choice (top tree storm)
1 viable gimmick build in Contraverse HHSN (that will almost certainly get nerfed due to the endless complaining)
1 high skill floor viable build on PC (top tree dawn) due to be able to bind the dodge to its own key
I played 3-4 matches of PVP last night with a kill 5 warlocks bounty. I was the first or second place in all my matches. I made zero progress on that bounty.
Well, it depends what you mean by "what you want" from the system. What I want is just a reward for normal PvP play. The actual time commitment I could give a shit less about. If it requires a poopsock, it requires a poopsock. I am satisfied as long as the possibility existed. That's why I loved Prime Engrams and was pissed when I found out they were rationed per day. Even if it was a 1% chance of progressing, I wanted it. I don't like artificial timegating.
There are zero real rewards for playing casual PvP. I honestly consider a Pinnacle at reset to be a token offer at best, but one I'm fine with even though it pales in comparison to PvE. A pinnacle at reset for PvP still pales with the massive amount of Pinnacles you can haul in running PvE with three characters.
If anything, this new system is a departure from the past. Before Pinnacles became a thing, you got a Powerful Reward for every full tier cleared in Destiny 2. You and I are debating Pinnacles at a reset. You'd get a ton of Powerful rewards for not even resetting prior! They effectively took rewards away from PvP and added them to PvE with the new system.
Giving one for a valour reset locks it behind a huge timesink that most people aren't going to be able to do and so PvP still effectively has no pinnacle reward unless you are a poopsocker. It doesn't actually help your average PvP player. But it gives the crazy fuckers a way to farm infinite pinnacle rewards over and over again. God, just imagine the exploits.
This is honestly one of the big reasons they should bring Trials back. It would provide an obvious place to put a weekly PvP pinnacle reward. Or they could just tie to to comp matches too or something I guess, but Trials seems a bit more of a natural place for it.
The two bolded don't seem to line up, either. Trials is far and away not a casual PvP list. I don't disagree that it should give Pinnacles there, mind you. It should. Giving it only there and not in the casual PvP is borderline offensive to me. Making it by comparison a much lower time sink to get them is even fine with me, it's a much harder list, but to ignore the casual PvP lists where the majority of the players are?
Not to mention, with DDOS'ng and PvP cheating being far more prevalent in comp style playlists, it also doesn't line up well with your first bolded of "imagine the exploits".
None of the pinnacles are "casual" in that sense. IB is basically the only one that comes close to that. They are all Master level shit, in Nightfalls or Nightmare Hunts or just doing the Raid or the like. They are all "casual" in terms of time investment, not in terms of skill/effort/orginization/etc. And I mean, the bar isn't that high but you don't have to set it that high in Comp or Trials or whatever either. But none of them are like Vanguard Playlist/6v6 Control levels of casual.
Crucible, right now, has decent rewards in terms of powerful gear and random blues/legendaries/other crap. It's comparable to basically all the other activities in that respect. What it lacks is pinnacle rewards equivalent to what you can get from running high end PvE content and a way to consistently farm like exotics and high-level mats for gear upgrades and all the shit you would get from regularly running high level NFs. Those are the holes that need plugging.
In that respect, pinnacle rewards from a valour reset don't really work. Too much work for one per week and also repeatable. That would be a good place to drop some ascendent shards or whatnot, but you need other PvP sources for that shit on top of that too.
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On console, I see a decent amount of Dawnblades. Tbh to make Warlocks more popular they should give them back their original melee range.
I still see bot tree dawnblade all the time. The super is still really good and lasts forever.
That and they goofed up the nerf to burst glide where you still get a speed boost from the other two glide options in your super.
Lesser than what burst glide used to give, but enough that it works nicely.
Strafe and balanced give exactly the amount of speed they did pre-season of the dawn, since the super is pretty much just a modifier to the baseline speed. It’s just that the modifier is 0 for burst glide right now. I still don’t understand why the tree with literally nothing for a neutral game had to eat a nerf to the strongest of the shitty jump options warlocks have just to make the other trees agility look better by comparison.
Also, I think the artifact mods should be disabled in competitive crucible at the very least. Just avoid the entire problem of arc/void batteries altogether.
The fix for this season for battery was particularly stupid. At max cooldown, dodge goes from 9 to 18 seconds, barrier from 14 to 28, and rift from 31 to 62. Between that and having the overshield drop to zero before the healing rift starts charging it again, might as well have just put a note in the description “not intended for use by warlocks”
None of the pinnacles are "casual" in that sense. IB is basically the only one that comes close to that. They are all Master level shit, in Nightfalls or Nightmare Hunts or just doing the Raid or the like. They are all "casual" in terms of time investment, not in terms of skill/effort/orginization/etc. And I mean, the bar isn't that high but you don't have to set it that high in Comp or Trials or whatever either. But none of them are like Vanguard Playlist/6v6 Control levels of casual.
They aren't, though. Nightfall Ordeals aren't really that big a deal (some of the strikes you can get 100k+ in the matchmade versions. I remember having to tank one right before the patch that raised pinnacles to +2 instead of +1 because we almost got it. The one on Mars with the Hive / dude who's name starts with N). Additionally, the Pit of Heresy is not some mind blowingly difficult content to do with the added perk of being able to just save the checkpoint at the end boss so you and two pals can quickly get 3 pinnacles.
The new Sundial at 950 is pretty walkthrough-able to and also grants a pinnacle. Really, there's no reason for Bungie to have not made it matchmaking. It's stupid easy.
All of those are less time consuming than a PvP reset....and you could easily limit that to one a week if super concerned about it.
If you're rating it based on time, all of those are far quicker than a PvP reset in casual. Difficulty wise, in terms of what you're actually doing in game, they're slightly harder, but their rewards are also greater (3 pinnacles each from Pit / Sundial / Ordeals with three characters).
Crucible, right now, has decent rewards in terms of powerful gear and random blues/legendaries/other crap. It's comparable to basically all the other activities in that respect. What it lacks is pinnacle rewards equivalent to what you can get from running high end PvE content and a way to consistently farm like exotics and high-level mats for gear upgrades and all the shit you would get from regularly running high level NFs. Those are the holes that need plugging.
In that respect, pinnacle rewards from a valour reset don't really work. Too much work for one per week and also repeatable. That would be a good place to drop some ascendent shards or whatnot, but you need other PvP sources for that shit on top of that too.
This isn't jiving with your earlier feelings. First, you can't give one pinnacle on reset per week because it's easier than other sources. Now it's too much work for a week? While others grant pinnacle at far easier rates?
And resets already grant cores, btw, 7-10, can't remember which. It's not enough.
*****
Separately, the new version of the sundial. Ehh. It should be matchmade.
The "quest" for Devil's Ruin. I guess the audio conversation was cool, but....ehhhhhhhh.
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IB bounties are pinnacle rewards and all four of those together are less work than a Valor reset, much less Glory. Admittedly that's like 4 rewards a month or however often IB is but that'd come out to the same as a weekly Crucible reset pinnacle reward for way more work.
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Holy crap. I talked. Well, my character, but I talked.
So, if you can't tell, I started Forsaken and . . . hey, turns out I do care about these characters. I think the reason I enjoy the Adventures and Lost Sectors (and to one extent or another the Strikes) is that they remind me of the main campaign missions which in my opinion are the highest quality content in this game. The open world areas, the public events, and to some extent the Strikes can suffer from other player engagement as much as they can benefit from it where single player experiences can simply be focused more on the player and their experience of a game.
It is interesting to me, however, how they're seemingly trying to integrate the open world activities such as bounties from Spider into the overall framework of the larger campaign narrative; it helps to make the areas feel more important than simply "area where these bad guys spawn", even if it's not by that much. Spider asking you to run patrols for him, grab him some items around the area, etc. are for some reason more engaging for me than the previous areas. And it could be that I'm just more than familiar with all Devrim's vocal bites at the beginning or ending or public events or patrols or whatever, but it feels more like Spider just has more to him.
If every season they put out was more like this content I'm playing right now, I'd be much more interested in "keeping up" with seasons. I am 100% sure I'm in the minority there. But I'd love more story-focused single player campaign material like this.
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Yeah Forsaken is still some top tier content. Also our Guardians were much chattier back in D1.
Spider is best vendor and will betray us, probably in D3. I want Spider and Variks to team up and become space mafia dons, and we gotta go Scarface them down
None of the pinnacles are "casual" in that sense. IB is basically the only one that comes close to that. They are all Master level shit, in Nightfalls or Nightmare Hunts or just doing the Raid or the like. They are all "casual" in terms of time investment, not in terms of skill/effort/orginization/etc. And I mean, the bar isn't that high but you don't have to set it that high in Comp or Trials or whatever either. But none of them are like Vanguard Playlist/6v6 Control levels of casual.
They aren't, though. Nightfall Ordeals aren't really that big a deal (some of the strikes you can get 100k+ in the matchmade versions. I remember having to tank one right before the patch that raised pinnacles to +2 instead of +1 because we almost got it. The one on Mars with the Hive / dude who's name starts with N). Additionally, the Pit of Heresy is not some mind blowingly difficult content to do with the added perk of being able to just save the checkpoint at the end boss so you and two pals can quickly get 3 pinnacles.
The new Sundial at 950 is pretty walkthrough-able to and also grants a pinnacle. Really, there's no reason for Bungie to have not made it matchmaking. It's stupid easy.
All of those are less time consuming than a PvP reset....and you could easily limit that to one a week if super concerned about it.
If you're rating it based on time, all of those are far quicker than a PvP reset in casual. Difficulty wise, in terms of what you're actually doing in game, they're slightly harder, but their rewards are also greater (3 pinnacles each from Pit / Sundial / Ordeals with three characters).
Crucible, right now, has decent rewards in terms of powerful gear and random blues/legendaries/other crap. It's comparable to basically all the other activities in that respect. What it lacks is pinnacle rewards equivalent to what you can get from running high end PvE content and a way to consistently farm like exotics and high-level mats for gear upgrades and all the shit you would get from regularly running high level NFs. Those are the holes that need plugging.
In that respect, pinnacle rewards from a valour reset don't really work. Too much work for one per week and also repeatable. That would be a good place to drop some ascendent shards or whatnot, but you need other PvP sources for that shit on top of that too.
This isn't jiving with your earlier feelings. First, you can't give one pinnacle on reset per week because it's easier than other sources. Now it's too much work for a week? While others grant pinnacle at far easier rates?
And resets already grant cores, btw, 7-10, can't remember which. It's not enough.
No dude, that's literally what I've said all along.
It's still infinitely farmable, it's just also a ridiculous grind. It's the worst of both options.
A pinnacle reward from a valor reset is a bad idea for that reason, as I've continually said.
All the pinnacles except IB are high-end PvE activities. The highest end ones in fact, which is the point. How difficulty they are to do overall is a matter of how hard this game is ever (it's not that hard), but in terms of the challenge offered, they are the top of it. The Raid and the highest-end NFs and Nightmare Hunts and such.
This is not the equivalent of a valour reset, cause that's way more time and the easiest level of PvP the game offers. A pinnacle reward for PvP should be attached to an equivalent level of difficulty and time-investment on the PvP side of the game. Hence, something connected to Trials or Comp or other high-end PvP activity and something reasonably doable in a few hours and that can be repeated once a every week.
On top of where the pinnacle goes and separate from it, the game also needs to give PvP players a way to grind high-end armour mats, the same way people running high-level nightfalls can. (and also give PvE players some other places to grind those too other then high-end NFs)
Holy crap. I talked. Well, my character, but I talked.
So, if you can't tell, I started Forsaken and . . . hey, turns out I do care about these characters. I think the reason I enjoy the Adventures and Lost Sectors (and to one extent or another the Strikes) is that they remind me of the main campaign missions which in my opinion are the highest quality content in this game. The open world areas, the public events, and to some extent the Strikes can suffer from other player engagement as much as they can benefit from it where single player experiences can simply be focused more on the player and their experience of a game.
It is interesting to me, however, how they're seemingly trying to integrate the open world activities such as bounties from Spider into the overall framework of the larger campaign narrative; it helps to make the areas feel more important than simply "area where these bad guys spawn", even if it's not by that much. Spider asking you to run patrols for him, grab him some items around the area, etc. are for some reason more engaging for me than the previous areas. And it could be that I'm just more than familiar with all Devrim's vocal bites at the beginning or ending or public events or patrols or whatever, but it feels more like Spider just has more to him.
If every season they put out was more like this content I'm playing right now, I'd be much more interested in "keeping up" with seasons. I am 100% sure I'm in the minority there. But I'd love more story-focused single player campaign material like this.
I wasn't around for Season of the Undying, but I've really been loving the stuff with Osiris and Saint-14 this season. As someone mentioned... the quest to get the new exotic was, to be frank, piss-easy. But listening to the chatter was amazing.
Posts
On the one hand I'd say it'd be nice if the Comp queue rotated game modes per-season but on the other hand if that happened it would eventually come around to modes I despise, so...
Thanks, after some issues I finally got it to work.
I usually like to keep that in my kinetic slot but I've been seeing too many good weapons in energy slots that use regular ammo to keep that up. I'll just have to look for something that uses special ammo to use in the kinetic slot (I like to keep a loadout that doesn't eliminate special ammo so I never have to scrounge for shotgun/sniper rifle ammo). Because I have Symmetry, I also want the catalyst, and man is it taking forever just to get that (and then apparently it's another 700 enemies killed with that weapon before it's ready to go).
The things one does for fun weapons.
Also, it looks like I have to choose only one exotic weapon/armor piece?
Shaxx notwithstanding, I'm totally not interested in the FPS shoot em up arena play with others. Not usually, certainly not right now. I'm the game player who doesn't even like casual fighting game bouts with friends for more than 30-60 minutes every few months regardless of if I'm winning or losing. Most PvP gameplay of any kind just isn't interesting or engaging for me.
Which seems like it might say something notable about whether people are really doing the seasonal stuff.
What it most certainly says, is that it is dumb as shit that nearly a month can go by of a 3 month season and an absolutely required feature remains broken.
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I hadn't even had it unlocked until . . . Friday? Sunday? Hell, I think I did the first Sundial run to unlock the lantern and all the rest of that stuff about a day or two before that. I honestly keep forgetting they exist until I see the stuff to unlock them in my inventory and think "shit, right, that."
Without incentives I don't think this would work. People are using lfg sites to put together teams specifically to farm for KD and roll people. I don't think "sweaty" players would go in a "sweaty players here" playlist without a really good reason. I do think stuff like momentum control that forces a break in the meta makes more sense. Create a double primary playlist, bring back rift or a mode with vehicles or some more objective focused mode, artificially make people change their habits.
All my fireteam except one guy got season pass level 100 last season. This season, two have played like a few days, two are in the 20s, and two of us are psychotic and 100 or higher.
When you get down to it, while the sundial event is superior to the Vex Offensive, once you run it a few times, that's it, and weapons in Destiny are really just archetypes with the numbers fiddled around for the hardcores / the casuals don't go for god rolls.
I know raids are also not done by the majority, but with the way we fell in power level, only to re-grind, it also killed a lot of the urgency to grind because they're just going to do it again next season. I really think resetting numbers backwards was a huge mistake.
Season of Dawn is better than Undying, but...it's not really a ton to do.
PSN: Bizazedo
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I'm all for having it reward glory - as it would be a Comp playlist. I'm just saying there should be a version of other game modes that offer a comp version. You can play a altered competitive version of a mode you enjoy. Yeah everyone in there is going to be going full meta probably (compared to the valor playlist) but that's what I would expect in the mode and that's ok.
Just make the Crucible splash page have a valor rewarding sub section and a glory rewarding subsection and you can choose the mode you would like to play under each.
It's funny because before SK they hyped up their renewed focus on PvP. So far that's meant a balance patch and a new... Old map. It feels like they're holding out on Trials in hopes any nasty cheat/exploits pop up in the Elim playlist first, or that they're reading one last balance patch before Trials.
I'm hoping Heroic Sundial gives us something new to do. And there's supposed to be some other new shit too it seems, judging by the triumphs that are still secret.
The Tower one had the same issue but I've noticed that has gone from irritating to almost never being locked out over the last 2 weeks or so. I wonder if it's just something weird with so many new players in the EDZ.
I don't know, but thankfully I got it to 11 and never need to go back.
Yeah, Dawn has a far better "loop" than Undying did. The problem is that since things are "structured" around leveling the season pass - there is a significant portion of people who were fine with doing that the first time...not so much the second or third time.
The "quality" of pvp and the meta that existed in D1 helped keep people engaged in between content drops in year 1, 2 and 3. Because ultimately if you only do PvE you are gonna hit a point where you are doing the same 2 or 3 things every week with very little new rewards available. The seasons are supposed to help solve this. They do some what, but replace one issue with another-FOMO. On top of that they have to thread the needle on how powerful or useful to make the seasonal items since they go away in a few months and now people starting don't have access to them. So if something becomes "meta" because of its quality you have a stark divides between the "have and have nots".
Going back to the first point - with PvP being...(arguably)"less than" it was in D1 as far as enjoyment and satisfaction across the player base goes, things become stale much quicker for a larger portion of the population in despite of, and sometimes because of, the seasonal structure.
To retain the people they do have though, they should have something for us to chew on. I'd like to think people will return in a big way for Trials, but who knows.
I get why they did it. It makes sense. It's extremely defensible.
But, psychologically, it makes it feel like the player progressed and then was thrown back through no fault of their own as opposed to always progressing.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I don't hate PvP right now or anything. But the meta to me is just...boring. Seeing, on average, the same 2ish loadouts on 9-10 people each game means that there isn't much fun to have if you want to be competitive. When I try out a goofy loadout just to change up the pace I know I'm going to get abused at my middling level of play by everyone else in the lobby that wouldn't dare switch from their Dust Rock and Not Forgotten. Shit I've been excited the last few games to see Crimson and Thorn again.
Not to mention that 90% of the matches I play in have 10 or 11 slots out of 12 filled by Hunters. It just gets...old.
Trials isn't my thing - but I hope they bring it back for the people that love it. I feel like it satisfies a smaller portion of the population than people think it does BUT has a much larger impact on the community as a whole through its existence and how people interact with the people that actually play it at a significant level.
I need instant load times or better rewards. Otherwise, the meta doesn't really bother me (except for Hunters being everywhere / the legs on Hunters that blind my radar from stupid range / the artifact mod with overshield that seems explicitly for hunters).
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I find the "thrown back" aspect to be barely noticeable. It applies to, like, the raid and a few other activities and that's it. And it's nice to have a tract to progress along and get rewards from again, at least for a bit.
Because they don't want pinnacle rewards to be infinitely farmable.
I remain an edge case who while I enjoy post-Shadowkeep PVP, I also enjoyed D2Y1 PVP. And every time I get instant-headshot sniped during super activation from someone who has a sniper that reloads itself when you miss, killed by a curving Warcliff projectile, murdered by a Dustrock-hunter whom is always above me and my FOV cannot see them (who probably also claims their class is weak), mapped by Erentil at a frankly absurd range, or play a match where 80% of the teams are all hunters, I just get…. Annoyed.
Each of those things by themselves isn't annoying, but in combination it makes me long for a mode where special doesn't drop, or a season where the weapon meta is shaken up, or an incentive loop that encourages playing with different weapons (season stuff for Randys and Komodo at least introduce mix-up) or like a buff to Resilience for gods sake….
It's just getting stale. And I thrive on change, and the mix-up between Y2 and Y3 isn't significant enough right now. Part of that is lack of loot/play incentive. Part of that is stale meta. And part of that is stale modes. I don't know that I want Trials back, but at least it would shake things up. But I feel the meta will metastasize even more in Trials, like how Survival is starting to grow rough some times.
Then again, part of that is me just not mixing up myself. I need to bust out of Doomfangs Aggressor, and need to practice with SMGs or Sidearms instead of Shotties (since they seemingly suck for me now).
I'd just like kill for a match with no hunters, no snipers, no ridiculous Heavy, SMGs/Final Destination only.
So make it the first reset of the week. I don't see this as being an insurmountable problem or an unreasonable thing to ask.
Edit: and I should be clear that I don't think you think that Shryke but the reluctance to make PvP rewarding in pretty basic ways is baffling and frustrating.
I'm sitting at season rank 56, which seems mind boggling to me. I barely hit 100 last season.
I'm with @squall99x about Survival. It's not a mode that I enjoy. I'd much rather play just about anything else in competitive. Having said that, I won two matches back-to-back last night and with the bonus Glory from the reset, I'm up to 1562. I might get that Recluse yet!!
But it's a path already tread. Psychologically, it's very bad.
Like I said, for this, I get why they did it. I'm actually not insulting Bungie here. The thought process is pretty clear and defensible. I still think it's a big mistake.
The amount of PvP you'd have to do on non-double weeks would be insane for this to be an issue as the ranking is shared among all three characters. You can farm pinnacle rewards MUCH faster using three characters and hitting all of the options than PvP would ever be. I don't really consider the infinitely farmable bit a valid objection compared to all of the other Pinnacle opportunities.
Or, like Peen said, limit it to once a week.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
The first paragraph is the problem with the second imo. It's still infinitely farmable, it's just also a ridiculous grind. It's the worst of both options.
I think what the goal is there, and imo what you want from the system, is for pinnacles to be limited in number and not take a huge time commitment. And that's what most of them are right now, barring IB once per month. It's generally like an hour or two per pinnacle source in terms of commitment and there's a small number of them available. So even if you don't play much you can still bang them all out every week on 1 character without too much hassle. Which means you are evening out the power gain between players that play different amounts fairly well.
Giving one for a valour reset locks it behind a huge timesink that most people aren't going to be able to do and so PvP still effectively has no pinnacle reward unless you are a poopsocker. It doesn't actually help your average PvP player. But it gives the crazy fuckers a way to farm infinite pinnacle rewards over and over again. God, just imagine the exploits.
This is honestly one of the big reasons they should bring Trials back. It would provide an obvious place to put a weekly PvP pinnacle reward. Or they could just tie to to comp matches too or something I guess, but Trials seems a bit more of a natural place for it.
There are zero real rewards for playing casual PvP. I honestly consider a Pinnacle at reset to be a token offer at best, but one I'm fine with even though it pales in comparison to PvE. A pinnacle at reset for PvP still pales with the massive amount of Pinnacles you can haul in running PvE with three characters.
If anything, this new system is a departure from the past. Before Pinnacles became a thing, you got a Powerful Reward for every full tier cleared in Destiny 2. You and I are debating Pinnacles at a reset. You'd get a ton of Powerful rewards for not even resetting prior! They effectively took rewards away from PvP and added them to PvE with the new system.
The two bolded don't seem to line up, either. Trials is far and away not a casual PvP list. I don't disagree that it should give Pinnacles there, mind you. It should. Giving it only there and not in the casual PvP is borderline offensive to me. Making it by comparison a much lower time sink to get them is even fine with me, it's a much harder list, but to ignore the casual PvP lists where the majority of the players are?
Not to mention, with DDOS'ng and PvP cheating being far more prevalent in comp style playlists, it also doesn't line up well with your first bolded of "imagine the exploits".
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
1 completely viable choice (top tree storm)
1 viable gimmick build in Contraverse HHSN (that will almost certainly get nerfed due to the endless complaining)
1 high skill floor viable build on PC (top tree dawn) due to be able to bind the dodge to its own key
I played 3-4 matches of PVP last night with a kill 5 warlocks bounty. I was the first or second place in all my matches. I made zero progress on that bounty.
Let's not even joke about things like that.
I still see bot tree dawnblade all the time. The super is still really good and lasts forever.
None of the pinnacles are "casual" in that sense. IB is basically the only one that comes close to that. They are all Master level shit, in Nightfalls or Nightmare Hunts or just doing the Raid or the like. They are all "casual" in terms of time investment, not in terms of skill/effort/orginization/etc. And I mean, the bar isn't that high but you don't have to set it that high in Comp or Trials or whatever either. But none of them are like Vanguard Playlist/6v6 Control levels of casual.
Crucible, right now, has decent rewards in terms of powerful gear and random blues/legendaries/other crap. It's comparable to basically all the other activities in that respect. What it lacks is pinnacle rewards equivalent to what you can get from running high end PvE content and a way to consistently farm like exotics and high-level mats for gear upgrades and all the shit you would get from regularly running high level NFs. Those are the holes that need plugging.
In that respect, pinnacle rewards from a valour reset don't really work. Too much work for one per week and also repeatable. That would be a good place to drop some ascendent shards or whatnot, but you need other PvP sources for that shit on top of that too.
That and they goofed up the nerf to burst glide where you still get a speed boost from the other two glide options in your super.
Lesser than what burst glide used to give, but enough that it works nicely.
I'm fairly sure that was intentional since previously they gave NO boost. I run bottom-tree Dawnblade and it's a real nice change
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Strafe and balanced give exactly the amount of speed they did pre-season of the dawn, since the super is pretty much just a modifier to the baseline speed. It’s just that the modifier is 0 for burst glide right now. I still don’t understand why the tree with literally nothing for a neutral game had to eat a nerf to the strongest of the shitty jump options warlocks have just to make the other trees agility look better by comparison.
We’ve had 2+ years of being strictly worse-off melee wise, either give us the same speed/hit detection or give us back the range.
The fix for this season for battery was particularly stupid. At max cooldown, dodge goes from 9 to 18 seconds, barrier from 14 to 28, and rift from 31 to 62. Between that and having the overshield drop to zero before the healing rift starts charging it again, might as well have just put a note in the description “not intended for use by warlocks”
The new Sundial at 950 is pretty walkthrough-able to and also grants a pinnacle. Really, there's no reason for Bungie to have not made it matchmaking. It's stupid easy.
All of those are less time consuming than a PvP reset....and you could easily limit that to one a week if super concerned about it.
If you're rating it based on time, all of those are far quicker than a PvP reset in casual. Difficulty wise, in terms of what you're actually doing in game, they're slightly harder, but their rewards are also greater (3 pinnacles each from Pit / Sundial / Ordeals with three characters).
This isn't jiving with your earlier feelings. First, you can't give one pinnacle on reset per week because it's easier than other sources. Now it's too much work for a week? While others grant pinnacle at far easier rates?
And resets already grant cores, btw, 7-10, can't remember which. It's not enough.
*****
Separately, the new version of the sundial. Ehh. It should be matchmade.
The "quest" for Devil's Ruin. I guess the audio conversation was cool, but....ehhhhhhhh.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
So, if you can't tell, I started Forsaken and . . . hey, turns out I do care about these characters. I think the reason I enjoy the Adventures and Lost Sectors (and to one extent or another the Strikes) is that they remind me of the main campaign missions which in my opinion are the highest quality content in this game. The open world areas, the public events, and to some extent the Strikes can suffer from other player engagement as much as they can benefit from it where single player experiences can simply be focused more on the player and their experience of a game.
It is interesting to me, however, how they're seemingly trying to integrate the open world activities such as bounties from Spider into the overall framework of the larger campaign narrative; it helps to make the areas feel more important than simply "area where these bad guys spawn", even if it's not by that much. Spider asking you to run patrols for him, grab him some items around the area, etc. are for some reason more engaging for me than the previous areas. And it could be that I'm just more than familiar with all Devrim's vocal bites at the beginning or ending or public events or patrols or whatever, but it feels more like Spider just has more to him.
If every season they put out was more like this content I'm playing right now, I'd be much more interested in "keeping up" with seasons. I am 100% sure I'm in the minority there. But I'd love more story-focused single player campaign material like this.
Spider is best vendor and will betray us, probably in D3. I want Spider and Variks to team up and become space mafia dons, and we gotta go Scarface them down
No dude, that's literally what I've said all along. A pinnacle reward from a valor reset is a bad idea for that reason, as I've continually said.
All the pinnacles except IB are high-end PvE activities. The highest end ones in fact, which is the point. How difficulty they are to do overall is a matter of how hard this game is ever (it's not that hard), but in terms of the challenge offered, they are the top of it. The Raid and the highest-end NFs and Nightmare Hunts and such.
This is not the equivalent of a valour reset, cause that's way more time and the easiest level of PvP the game offers. A pinnacle reward for PvP should be attached to an equivalent level of difficulty and time-investment on the PvP side of the game. Hence, something connected to Trials or Comp or other high-end PvP activity and something reasonably doable in a few hours and that can be repeated once a every week.
On top of where the pinnacle goes and separate from it, the game also needs to give PvP players a way to grind high-end armour mats, the same way people running high-level nightfalls can. (and also give PvE players some other places to grind those too other then high-end NFs)
I wasn't around for Season of the Undying, but I've really been loving the stuff with Osiris and Saint-14 this season. As someone mentioned... the quest to get the new exotic was, to be frank, piss-easy. But listening to the chatter was amazing.