But Bolton is a true believer in the Republican party. He'd never hurt the party.
That's my worry. That he's trying to bait the dems into giving him relevance and importance and then give them nothing/worse actively hurt the case for impeachment. "I actually held up the aid, it was all on me and i got fired because of it."
Bolton has principles. They're terrible and stupid, but he has them, and they don't mix well with Trumpism. I can see him thinking that if he exposes Trump's malfeasance in foreign policy, his party will head back to his way of thinking.
Also, Bolton can try to claim that he engineered the whole mess, but that's going to contradict everything everyone else said, so I don't see it working too well.
I guess for me I remember that recent Navy Seal getting away with war crimes with a sudden "I did it" from someone else and it worked, and I'm worried Bolton will do the same thing and the media will go right along with it.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The infuriating thing among the billion other infuriating things is a lot of Republicans are using the Nixon defense that you can't produce definitive evidence he ordered the break into the Watergate so you can't prove he was responsible for the break in.
Who ordered it? “There is no evidence,” Dean writes, “in all the Nixon-Watergate-related conversations that anyone in the White House had advance knowledge that Liddy was going into the Watergate.” By “evidence” Dean must mean “definitive evidence,” because he quotes Haldeman saying that setting up the espionage team for Nixon’s re-election had been the idea of campaign chief and former attorney general John Mitchell. “Mitchell,” Haldeman told Nixon several months later, “was pushing” for “secret papers, and financial data that O’Brien had, that he was going to get.” That, too, is straight out of Dean’s book.
(In the Watergate tapes, Nixon repeatedly asks why and how the break-in occurred, but of course he alone knew that future generations were listening in. It’s also possible he couldn’t remember whether he’d ordered the break-in or not. Dean thinks Nixon was haunted by the possibility that he might have and then forgotten about it. Nixon was, after all, already in the break-ins business, having previously ordered the firebombing of the liberal Brookings Institution to steal some files – a yarn too rococo to detail here. Happily, that order was never carried out.)
A final consideration is this. Put yourself in the shoes of Mitchell and Magruder. Would you give Liddy a green light on burgling the DNC if you didn’t know for sure that your ultimate boss wanted it done? On the Watergate tapes, Nixon never admits knowing how the break-in came about, and he questions its wisdom. But he never expresses the slightest shock that anybody in his employ would commit such a crime.
Everything old is new again.
Please continue to execute the Nixon playbook, Republicans. It worked out so well for him. Additionally, please draw more comparisons to one of the most famously corrupt and whackadoodle presidents we’ve ever had.
Nixon didn't have a right wing propaganda network behind him.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
70 is old for a President, because of the physical demands of the campaigning and being always on duty. Advisors don't need to deal with that sort of thing - Bolton might have another 20 years in him for finally getting even with Iran.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
Or it is more so as Bolton won’t be there to fix and influence it anymore.
Bolton hates Iran because they defy the USA, Trump makes the USA weaker on the world stage and makes it easier for more countries to more flagrantly defy the USA.
Every moment that Trump is in office dismantling the State Dept and reducing the USAs standing in the world is a failure state for Bolton.
MWO: Adamski
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I don't trust him to be helpful but I'm not convinced Bolton really has anything to lose either. Trump destroyed his right wing media clout when he fired him and he doesn't have allies in the mainstream media that others like Spicer do.
The needle hasn't moved because the democrats might have gathered a lot more evidence, but the rhetoric is still the same. They keep discussing "quid pro quo", which Republicans are now trying to redefine.
They need to refer to this situation to what it really is, bribery and extortion for personal gain. Sure, those claims might be harder to prove in a court of law, but this is a court of public opinion, so you can't dance around with technical language.
We also need to consider that swing state Republicans are seeing a no win situation in the electorate, and are now focusing on salvaging their reputations for the private sector lobbying jobs. In that case, they have good reason not to turn on trump, even if the majority of the public end up turning on them.
But Bolton is a true believer in the Republican party. He'd never hurt the party.
That's my worry. That he's trying to bait the dems into giving him relevance and importance and then give them nothing/worse actively hurt the case for impeachment. "I actually held up the aid, it was all on me and i got fired because of it."
Bolton has principles. They're terrible and stupid, but he has them, and they don't mix well with Trumpism. I can see him thinking that if he exposes Trump's malfeasance in foreign policy, his party will head back to his way of thinking.
Also, Bolton can try to claim that he engineered the whole mess, but that's going to contradict everything everyone else said, so I don't see it working too well.
I guess for me I remember that recent Navy Seal getting away with war crimes with a sudden "I did it" from someone else and it worked, and I'm worried Bolton will do the same thing and the media will go right along with it.
The case was basically built on that guy's testimony, though, which is far from the case here. Several sources have painted a picture, and Bolton's not going to be able to set it on fire, nor do I think he wants to.
Nixon did not have a Senate ran by co conspirators, nor did he have a propaganda machine like Fox News running for three decades to prepare things for him
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Nixon did not have a Senate ran by co conspirators, nor did he have a propaganda machine like Fox News running for three decades to prepare things for him
And has been pointed out many times before but is worth repeating, the entire creation and existence of that fox news propaganda machine was BECAUSE of what happened with nixon, and an attempt (so far successful) to make sure it never happened again.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
I'd argue that for men like Bolton it's entirely about the far flung future because they're motivated by the ideal of america being the domminant power in the world and all others are either part of it's hegemony or too intimidated by it to resist.
Trump's philosophy is thus anathema to a man like Bolton; he's willing to do whatever is in the best interest of russia, jeopardizes the hegemony by threatening members of it's sphere of influence and refuses to commit to large scale military conflict.
But apparently he's second guessing this by virtue of him not showing up to his deposition.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
I'd argue that for men like Bolton it's entirely about the far flung future because they're motivated by the ideal of america being the domminant power in the world and all others are either part of it's hegemony or too intimidated by it to resist.
Trump's philosophy is thus anathema to a man like Bolton; he's willing to do whatever is in the best interest of russia, jeopardizes the hegemony by threatening members of it's sphere of influence and refuses to commit to large scale military conflict.
But apparently he's second guessing this by virtue of him not showing up to his deposition.
No he wasn't really expected to show up today. In the story he is waiting on the court case to give him cover. Which may or may not change but probably won't be decided till the end of the month.
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
I'd argue that for men like Bolton it's entirely about the far flung future because they're motivated by the ideal of america being the domminant power in the world and all others are either part of it's hegemony or too intimidated by it to resist.
Trump's philosophy is thus anathema to a man like Bolton; he's willing to do whatever is in the best interest of russia, jeopardizes the hegemony by threatening members of it's sphere of influence and refuses to commit to large scale military conflict.
But apparently he's second guessing this by virtue of him not showing up to his deposition.
No he wasn't really expected to show up today. In the story he is waiting on the court case to give him cover. Which may or may not change but probably won't be decided till the end of the month.
Plus Democrats also withdrew a subpoena of a former White House official to ensure their proceedings were not delayed by a court battle. Schiff also decided Thursday not to subpoena someone who could have been a star witness -- former national security adviser John Bolton, who privately raised concerns about the Ukraine scandal at the heart of the impeachment probe. Schiff's decision came after the former Trump aide's counsel warned they would sue over any subpoena.
"We have no interest in allowing the administration to play rope-a-dope with us in the courts for months," a House Intelligence Committee official said of the decision not to subpoena Bolton.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
I think Bolton could expect to be restored to power with a future Republican Presidency as long as he keeps his trap shut. Most of them hate Trump too (on a personal rather than political level.)
Except if trump is vindicated then future republican presidents will treat him as the ideal to strive for; a president who is petty, stupid, self absorbed and communicates via stream of consciousness.
There will be no place for people like bolton.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
I'd argue that for men like Bolton it's entirely about the far flung future because they're motivated by the ideal of america being the domminant power in the world and all others are either part of it's hegemony or too intimidated by it to resist.
Trump's philosophy is thus anathema to a man like Bolton; he's willing to do whatever is in the best interest of russia, jeopardizes the hegemony by threatening members of it's sphere of influence and refuses to commit to large scale military conflict.
But apparently he's second guessing this by virtue of him not showing up to his deposition.
No he wasn't really expected to show up today. In the story he is waiting on the court case to give him cover. Which may or may not change but probably won't be decided till the end of the month.
Plus Democrats also withdrew a subpoena of a former White House official to ensure their proceedings were not delayed by a court battle. Schiff also decided Thursday not to subpoena someone who could have been a star witness -- former national security adviser John Bolton, who privately raised concerns about the Ukraine scandal at the heart of the impeachment probe. Schiff's decision came after the former Trump aide's counsel warned they would sue over any subpoena.
"We have no interest in allowing the administration to play rope-a-dope with us in the courts for months," a House Intelligence Committee official said of the decision not to subpoena Bolton.
So....the administration gets to keep blowing off subpoenas?
That's a stupid move, withdrawing the subpoena. Just signals to everyone who is going to be asked to testify that they aren't planning on spending much time on it, actually, and you can just run the clock on them without any consequence.
That's a stupid move, withdrawing the subpoena. Just signals to everyone who is going to be asked to testify that they aren't planning on spending much time on it, actually, and you can just run the clock on them without any consequence.
Run what clock? We have a smoking gun and confessions on camera. The evidence is here, this is what they'll move forwards with. Between Yovanovich, Sondland, Taylor, and McKinley, what more do we need? The transcript matches, Trump has admitted it.
At this point, tie up the loose ends, do some public hearings with your best witnesses, and impeach before 2020. It is a good strategy.
That's a stupid move, withdrawing the subpoena. Just signals to everyone who is going to be asked to testify that they aren't planning on spending much time on it, actually, and you can just run the clock on them without any consequence.
Or it signals that they don’t need to waste time dicking around to get yet another confirmation of the events.
Lindsey Graham now says there is something “suspicious” about Sondland revising his testimony.
“Why did Sondland change his testimony? Was there a connection between Sondland and Democratic operatives on the committee? Did he talk to Schiff?”
The answer is because he committed a wee bit of perjury and wanted to avoid the potential consequences of that.
This, and the other republicans bowing to Trump and defending him at every step, no matter what comes out sickens me. Like spool I was a long time Republican. Hell I haven't bothered to change my voter registration. I always believed they were about the country, how wrong I was.
But how blatant their being just sickens me. Even though I'm no longer a Republican and can't stand them in any way, this still just saddens me seeing our government being blatantly partisan with this. He's done more than enough to warrant an impeachment hearing. Seems like he's done more than Nixon.
KENT says Sondland relayed to other senior diplomats that “POTUS wanted nothing less than President Zelensky to go to microphone and say investigations, Biden, and Clinton.”
Picture's being painted pretty fucking clearly. Hearings are going to be fun.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
In related tweets, it specifies that like "orphanages" was code for Russian sanctions, Clinton is code/shorthand for 2016.
But I would bet dollars to donuts that Trump doesn't understand that and really really just wanted them to say it was yet another Clinton conspiracy because RARR CLINTON BAD.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
It's also potentially a savvy move as it lets anyone who was going to be a witness helpful to the defense self-select out.
Edit: this is only true because they appear to have plenty of credible and willing witnesses already.
U.S. officials expressed discomfort this fall that Zelensky was open to investigating his predecessor.
Zelensky’s aide replied: "What? You mean the type of investigations you’re pushing for us to do on Biden and Clinton?"
Wow. That's, uh, quite the quote.
Worth noting that this conversation (as related to Kent by Taylor) was on Sept 14th, after the aid was released.
Once the real leverage was removed, the distinction between Volker and Taylor gets pretty clear:
Later, the conversation turned to the topic of a White House meeting between Trump and Zelensky. Volker said that it was “important that President Zelensky give the messages we discussed before,” according to Kent. Then Taylor interjected and said to Yermak, “Don’t do that.”
Volker still pressing Ukraine for the announcement, Taylor specifically telling them not to.
In related tweets, it specifies that like "orphanages" was code for Russian sanctions, Clinton is code/shorthand for 2016.
But I would bet dollars to donuts that Trump doesn't understand that and really really just wanted them to say it was yet another Clinton conspiracy because RARR CLINTON BAD.
I am sorry what? I mean... i know this to be the case but do these tweets imply that the President knew this to be the case? Because if he did then the whole thing about Russian Adoption before the election becomes pretty goddamn clear collusion.
Honestly, at this point If I was Zelensky at this point, I'd reverse the relationship with trump; send him a script to read stating how america would be sending a billion dollars worth of hardware and ejecting the russian embassy form DC or the Ukrainian government would fully co-operate with the democrats to reveal how deep in the shit Trump and his cronies were.
Also he can come to Kiev to give Zelensky a televised foot masage.
In related tweets, it specifies that like "orphanages" was code for Russian sanctions, Clinton is code/shorthand for 2016.
But I would bet dollars to donuts that Trump doesn't understand that and really really just wanted them to say it was yet another Clinton conspiracy because RARR CLINTON BAD.
I am sorry what? I mean... i know this to be the case but do these tweets imply that the President knew this to be the case? Because if he did then the whole thing about Russian Adoption before the election becomes pretty goddamn clear collusion.
No, Arctangent was offering [adoptions] == sanctions as a comparison. Kent did not mention it:
KENT: “in shorthand, it was suggested that the Ukrainians needed—Zelensky needed to go to a microphone and basically there needed to be three words in the message, and that was the shorthand.”
Honestly, at this point If I was Zelensky at this point, I'd reverse the relationship with trump; send him a script to read stating how america would be sending a billion dollars worth of hardware and ejecting the russian embassy form DC or the Ukrainian government would fully co-operate with the democrats to reveal how deep in the shit Trump and his cronies were.
Also he can come to Kiev to give Zelensky a televised foot masage.
And then I'd give the information out anyways.
That would literally destroy the impeachment process. Ukrainian officials cannot be relied upon right now, and having them issue political demands would be disastrous.
Honestly, at this point If I was Zelensky at this point, I'd reverse the relationship with trump; send him a script to read stating how america would be sending a billion dollars worth of hardware and ejecting the russian embassy form DC or the Ukrainian government would fully co-operate with the democrats to reveal how deep in the shit Trump and his cronies were.
Also he can come to Kiev to give Zelensky a televised foot masage.
And then I'd give the information out anyways.
That would literally destroy the impeachment process. Ukrainian officials cannot be relied upon right now, and having them issue political demands would be disastrous.
Additionally, even if their corroboration of the allegations guaranteed* a successful impeachment, it wouldn't happen in time to save Ukraine from his wrath.
*It definitely would not do that.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
Am I the only one really confused and certain that they misspoke/meant to say "Trump wants nothing MORE than Zelensky to" etc etc
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
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I ZimbraWorst song, played on ugliest guitarRegistered Userregular
Am I the only one really confused and certain that they misspoke/meant to say "Trump wants nothing MORE than Zelensky to" etc etc
You probably are.
"Nothing more than" indicates that a request is minor and/or the suggestion is that the absolute minimum be done to meet the request. E.G. "I want nothing more than a minute of your time"
"Nothing less than" is a demand and indicates that that the request should be carried out and then some. E.G. "I want nothing less than your complete cooperation".
yeah, it's shorthand for "I don't care what else you say, but you will reference these three things, that part is essential and non-negotiable."
Commander Zoom on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
What kind of idiot uses a code word for something that makes them look guilty anyway
“Do you have any of that good meth?*”
*translators note: Meth means heroin
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Posts
I guess for me I remember that recent Navy Seal getting away with war crimes with a sudden "I did it" from someone else and it worked, and I'm worried Bolton will do the same thing and the media will go right along with it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Nixon didn't have a right wing propaganda network behind him.
Bolton is 70. The far flung post Triumphant Trump future isn't really a big consideration for him.
70 is old for a President, because of the physical demands of the campaigning and being always on duty. Advisors don't need to deal with that sort of thing - Bolton might have another 20 years in him for finally getting even with Iran.
Or it is more so as Bolton won’t be there to fix and influence it anymore.
Bolton hates Iran because they defy the USA, Trump makes the USA weaker on the world stage and makes it easier for more countries to more flagrantly defy the USA.
Every moment that Trump is in office dismantling the State Dept and reducing the USAs standing in the world is a failure state for Bolton.
MWO: Adamski
They need to refer to this situation to what it really is, bribery and extortion for personal gain. Sure, those claims might be harder to prove in a court of law, but this is a court of public opinion, so you can't dance around with technical language.
We also need to consider that swing state Republicans are seeing a no win situation in the electorate, and are now focusing on salvaging their reputations for the private sector lobbying jobs. In that case, they have good reason not to turn on trump, even if the majority of the public end up turning on them.
The case was basically built on that guy's testimony, though, which is far from the case here. Several sources have painted a picture, and Bolton's not going to be able to set it on fire, nor do I think he wants to.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43km9n/bolton-just-ghosted-on-his-impeachment-hearing?fbclid=IwAR3OZUbdNs4Zt60K63wc17sQOEQq-yGAw19OLvU8TuYCybcWTC7efmZuh8s&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark
Maybe he'll get that war with Iran after all.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
And has been pointed out many times before but is worth repeating, the entire creation and existence of that fox news propaganda machine was BECAUSE of what happened with nixon, and an attempt (so far successful) to make sure it never happened again.
http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
I'd argue that for men like Bolton it's entirely about the far flung future because they're motivated by the ideal of america being the domminant power in the world and all others are either part of it's hegemony or too intimidated by it to resist.
Trump's philosophy is thus anathema to a man like Bolton; he's willing to do whatever is in the best interest of russia, jeopardizes the hegemony by threatening members of it's sphere of influence and refuses to commit to large scale military conflict.
But apparently he's second guessing this by virtue of him not showing up to his deposition.
No he wasn't really expected to show up today. In the story he is waiting on the court case to give him cover. Which may or may not change but probably won't be decided till the end of the month.
About that, from CNN.
So....the administration gets to keep blowing off subpoenas?
Run what clock? We have a smoking gun and confessions on camera. The evidence is here, this is what they'll move forwards with. Between Yovanovich, Sondland, Taylor, and McKinley, what more do we need? The transcript matches, Trump has admitted it.
At this point, tie up the loose ends, do some public hearings with your best witnesses, and impeach before 2020. It is a good strategy.
Or it signals that they don’t need to waste time dicking around to get yet another confirmation of the events.
This, and the other republicans bowing to Trump and defending him at every step, no matter what comes out sickens me. Like spool I was a long time Republican. Hell I haven't bothered to change my voter registration. I always believed they were about the country, how wrong I was.
But how blatant their being just sickens me. Even though I'm no longer a Republican and can't stand them in any way, this still just saddens me seeing our government being blatantly partisan with this. He's done more than enough to warrant an impeachment hearing. Seems like he's done more than Nixon.
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6542219-George-Kent-Transcript
(Politico Reporter)
Picture's being painted pretty fucking clearly. Hearings are going to be fun.
The 2016 server thing. And also maybe ballot stuffing because Trump actually won the popular vote, you could see it in his inauguration crowd.
In related tweets, it specifies that like "orphanages" was code for Russian sanctions, Clinton is code/shorthand for 2016.
But I would bet dollars to donuts that Trump doesn't understand that and really really just wanted them to say it was yet another Clinton conspiracy because RARR CLINTON BAD.
Edit: this is only true because they appear to have plenty of credible and willing witnesses already.
Wow. That's, uh, quite the quote.
Worth noting that this conversation (as related to Kent by Taylor) was on Sept 14th, after the aid was released.
Once the real leverage was removed, the distinction between Volker and Taylor gets pretty clear:
Volker still pressing Ukraine for the announcement, Taylor specifically telling them not to.
I am sorry what? I mean... i know this to be the case but do these tweets imply that the President knew this to be the case? Because if he did then the whole thing about Russian Adoption before the election becomes pretty goddamn clear collusion.
Also he can come to Kiev to give Zelensky a televised foot masage.
And then I'd give the information out anyways.
No, Arctangent was offering [adoptions] == sanctions as a comparison. Kent did not mention it:
That would literally destroy the impeachment process. Ukrainian officials cannot be relied upon right now, and having them issue political demands would be disastrous.
Additionally, even if their corroboration of the allegations guaranteed* a successful impeachment, it wouldn't happen in time to save Ukraine from his wrath.
*It definitely would not do that.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Yeah, it's correct. Think of it as "I will accept nothing less than..."
You probably are.
"Nothing more than" indicates that a request is minor and/or the suggestion is that the absolute minimum be done to meet the request. E.G. "I want nothing more than a minute of your time"
"Nothing less than" is a demand and indicates that that the request should be carried out and then some. E.G. "I want nothing less than your complete cooperation".
“Do you have any of that good meth?*”
*translators note: Meth means heroin
The kind of genius that is Giuliani.