[Star Wars] Open TROS Spoilers! Beware!

davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty MeatshieldPanhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
edited February 4 in Debate and/or Discourse
Star Warsssssss!

Here we discuss all the Star Wars stuff that could possibly come up in normal, relaxed, human conversations.

Please mark spoilers in this thread for most things, especially future and currently running movies, cartoons, and series.

If you’d like an open spoiler discussion about The Mandalorian, head over to that thread here: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/231389/the-good-the-bad-and-the-mandalorian-open-spoilers#latest

Need more content? Might I suggest a podcast? My favorite is Star Wars Minute....Star Wars Minute....Minute.

Please refrain from too much spoilery talk for Episode IX Rise of Skywalker. Some of us have to wait to watch it but don’t want to completely cut ourselves off from other discussions. I’m certain that movie will spawn its own open spoiler thread soon enough.

Also, remember to be kind to each other here. This thread always seems to balance precariously on a knife’s edge. You have a Star Wars thread, if you can keep it.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Finally finished Rebels. That was a wild ride in the end.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Finally finished Rebels. That was a wild ride in the end.
    The Obi Wan/Maul rematch is probably the best possible way that could have gone down.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    That reminds me. Sometimes, I can’t decide if Obiwan really needed to cut off all of Anakin’s remaining limbs but leave him to die. It’s hard for me to put a finger on, but it’s just mad weird given the circumstances.

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I thought it was weird Obi-Wan didn't have the heart to kill Anakin, but he did have the heart to chop off his legs and leave him to slow roast to death.

    Also, having just watched TPM and AOTC, it's weird how Anakin and Obi-Wan are supposed to be besties. Anakin's a good kid at the end of TPM, but right from the start of AOTC he's a creepy fucking asshole. I'm not sure which relationship is less believable, Anakin and Obi-Wan or Anakin and Padme.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I guess Obiwan was also trying to save Padme’s life?

    Still. If you have the mad skill to delimb an opponent in the air while also avoiding decapitating them, that’s... How is that not petty.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Obi-Wan left Anakin to die, he was just doing the thing where you can rationalize that you didn't really kill him, in order to try and sleep a bit better at night.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I was looking at an old Making Magic Lucasfilm cd from 1995. George Lucas was really thinking he was right when he did the Han shot first thing.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Obi-Wan left Anakin to die, he was just doing the thing where you can rationalize that you didn't really kill him, in order to try and sleep a bit better at night.

    Obi-wan crippling Anakin but not killing him outright is one of the only things I really like about the PT. Obi-wan is still a diehard Jedi and he's not going to kill an unarmed opponent, especially one who was basically a surrogate son and brother. I don't think Obi-wan is even just leaving him to die, he's simply so heartbroken that he decides to live with the consequences if Anakin survives. He has to know he should kill Anakin and he also has to know Force users can survive all kinds of damage but even if Anakin did turn on him and the Order, Anakin being alive means there's somebody important to Obi-Wan left alive in the universe.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Also, I don’t believe that Obi-wan intentionally disarmed Anakin without killing him. Rather, I think he took the shot he had in the fight at that moment, and Anakin losing limbs is the result.

    And then why didn’t Obi-wan kill him afterwards? Because at that point, it’s not a fight anymore; it’s an execution. And those are very, very different things.

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  • DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Hel he even told Yoda he couldnt do it.

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  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Also, I don’t believe that Obi-wan intentionally disarmed Anakin without killing him. Rather, I think he took the shot he had in the fight at that moment, and Anakin losing limbs is the result.

    And then why didn’t Obi-wan kill him afterwards? Because at that point, it’s not a fight anymore; it’s an execution. And those are very, very different things.

    Also, Anakin was literally on fire when Obi Wan left. "Well, that dude's dead" is a pretty reasonable conclusion to come to in that situation.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    I think Obi Wan for sure thought Anakin would die, and even that killing him would have been a mercy, but he just didn't have it in him to do that. In effect he ran away - he left Anakin to die a painful death because he couldn't bring himself to deliver the killing blow, and he felt awful about it, which is a perfectly human reaction.

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  • BubsBubs Not Burbs ChicagoRegistered User regular
    I’ve seen grown ass men hesitate when they have to club a fish that they’re getting ready to filet. It’s not easy. So Obi Wan’s decision feels right to me.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    After what did, it kind of made sense to leave him to die.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I think what Obi Wan did was the choice he would have made even if I don't like it and would have done it differently.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Got my tickets. Saturday afternoon, middle 4 seats in the back row.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Ticket acquired for midnight opening night. Decent spot too.

    Unlike the last few movies, they're actually doing 2D showings at midnight too rather than railroading me into 3D. So that's nice!

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Obi-Wan left Anakin to die, he was just doing the thing where you can rationalize that you didn't really kill him, in order to try and sleep a bit better at night.

    Obi-wan crippling Anakin but not killing him outright is one of the only things I really like about the PT. Obi-wan is still a diehard Jedi and he's not going to kill an unarmed opponent, especially one who was basically a surrogate son and brother. I don't think Obi-wan is even just leaving him to die, he's simply so heartbroken that he decides to live with the consequences if Anakin survives. He has to know he should kill Anakin and he also has to know Force users can survive all kinds of damage but even if Anakin did turn on him and the Order, Anakin being alive means there's somebody important to Obi-Wan left alive in the universe.

    Heh unarmed

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  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    Mandalorian is awesome and it made me like star wars again

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Mandalorian is awesome and it made me like star wars again

    I'm all aboard the Cara Dune train. And Pedro's been killing it as Mando.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I thought it was weird Obi-Wan didn't have the heart to kill Anakin, but he did have the heart to chop off his legs and leave him to slow roast to death.

    Also, having just watched TPM and AOTC, it's weird how Anakin and Obi-Wan are supposed to be besties. Anakin's a good kid at the end of TPM, but right from the start of AOTC he's a creepy fucking asshole. I'm not sure which relationship is less believable, Anakin and Obi-Wan or Anakin and Padme.

    Anakin and Padme is worse by far. Anakin and Obi I can at least handwave some stuff because Obi-Wan has been mentoring the kid for ten years or so and now he's hit the rebellious teenager phase. It's not great, but I can believe it. Anakin having spent the past decade pining for some rando woman he met for a week and then she actually falls for his whiny ass... nooooope.

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  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    I thought it was weird Obi-Wan didn't have the heart to kill Anakin, but he did have the heart to chop off his legs and leave him to slow roast to death.

    Also, having just watched TPM and AOTC, it's weird how Anakin and Obi-Wan are supposed to be besties. Anakin's a good kid at the end of TPM, but right from the start of AOTC he's a creepy fucking asshole. I'm not sure which relationship is less believable, Anakin and Obi-Wan or Anakin and Padme.

    Anakin and Padme is worse by far. Anakin and Obi I can at least handwave some stuff because Obi-Wan has been mentoring the kid for ten years or so and now he's hit the rebellious teenager phase. It's not great, but I can believe it. Anakin having spent the past decade pining for some rando woman he met for a week and then she actually falls for his whiny ass... nooooope.

    You under estimate the power of the dark side. Never underestimate the planning prowess of Papa Palpatine, who clearly Chuck Woolery'd those two off screen.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Seems like that'd be good material for Robot Chicken.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    The prequels put too much time between TPM and AOTC.

    The sequels put too little between TFA and TLJ.

    Fucking poetry.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    The prequels put too much time between TPM and AOTC.

    The sequels put too little between TFA and TLJ.

    Fucking poetry.

    I agree with this if the "too much time" is not that AOTC should take an earlier swath of time and that TPM should take up more. I think you could cut out almost all of what is currently in TPM, reduce it to the first 20 minutes of a new movie with Obi-Wan (not Qui-Gon) finding Anakin in the desert and then time skip forward to AOTC Anakin to show more of the Clone Wars, Anakin's training, and build the relationships between Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme.

    Like you don't really need Qui-Gon for the rest of the series, the time spent on him is wasted. You don't really need the trade federation, they're just part of the separatists, blah blah blah. Just have a younger Obi-Wan on Tatooine for reasons, he finds a magic boy podracing and brings him in done. Move on. Almost everything that takes place in TPC is irrelevant, or easily redone in 30 seconds of dialogue.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Yeah, Anakin did not need to be a kid.

    George wanted someone for the kids watching to identify with, and nobody had the balls to tell him that maybe it shouldn’t be the kid who grows up to be Darth freaking Vader.

    And while I’m fine with the TFA and TLJ we got, the cliffhanger ending kinda tied things down.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    I would have much rather the time spent establishing Anakin as an amazing fighter pilot be as an adult instead of the shenanigans we saw in TPM. The only reason I said you could have Obi-Wan find this kid while podracing is so the amazing Star Wars pod racing game could exist.

    You could severely cut down the scene and just have Obi-Wan meeting a contact at the race track, he happens to notice a kid climbing out of the cockpit of a racer and going "wait what? Is that a human child?" "Oh yeah. Skywalker. He's actually really good. They keep checking him to see if someone's remote piloting that but there's no evidence." Obi-Wan meets him, runs a couple tests, and says, "how would you like to do something better with your life?" Just get rid of the mom and virgin birth. He's an orphan slave who flies and races for his master. That's all we need to know.

    Later, Anakin and Obi-Wan get randomly assigned security detail to the young hot Senator from Naboo because of her being targeted by the rising separatist threat. Hell, maybe Anakin is in the right place at the right time (the force wills it) and rescues her from an assassination attempt with his daring heroics, forming a foundation for their romance and a reason for her to pull strings to get that handsome young Jedi assigned to her. (I wouldn't want her to be some sort of weird temptress character because that's an icky trope, but she's just young, attractive, and powerful and looking for someone.)

    And that ties up everything you need from the first movie as far as I can tell. Reintroduce Obi-Wan, find Anakin, meet Padme.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Hell, he doesn’t have to be a kid. Introduce him as a teenager who is podracing.

    Then, like you said, he does something crazy like jump out a window to chase down an assassin, which impress Padme.

    Also, by compressing the training timeline we lose the whole taking kids thing, AND it makes Yoda’s “too old comment” more of half-hearted justification rather than something which gets needlessly explained.

    Also, have Obi-Wan not know about Leia.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Don't even need the pod racing. Have the Clone Wars already in progress and have Anakin be some super skilled pilot that saves Obi and/or Padme from an attack. Hotshot fighter pilot isn't exactly the most original character type, but going straight into the Clone Wars gives more time to show the war push the Republic to the breaking point.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Don't even need the pod racing. Have the Clone Wars already in progress and have Anakin be some super skilled pilot that saves Obi and/or Padme from an attack. Hotshot fighter pilot isn't exactly the most original character type, but going straight into the Clone Wars gives more time to show the war push the Republic to the breaking point.

    Naw man younger me is definitely worse off for that game not being on the N64. That was a good time.

    Also I have a hard time believing he could be a Republic fighter pilot without some sort of Jedi screening or some general going "This Anakin fellow is kind of unbelievably good let me get one of my Jedi contacts to check him out."

    I don't mind the too old thing because it can be both light hearted and real. I find it hard to believe that Jedi would turn away randomly found force users and be like "Well you're over the age of five, so I guess good luck with the Force stuff. Try not to be evil or we'll have to murder you later, bye!" Like you'd prefer to take them as young as possible but if you can keep tabs on them and prevent a rogue Sith that seems like a good outcome even if they're older and may not reach maximum potential.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I'd argue Pod Racing is the best thing besides The Duel of Fates about Episode I.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    The design of darth maul is pretty boss.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    The design of darth maul is pretty boss.

    Yeah, he's got a great design.
    It's just a shame that there's nothing to him beyond his design. Just "Generic angry alien guy with a cool lightsaber", and then he's cut in half and flushed down a hole.
    If it wasn't for the Clone Wars series doing some serious rehab on him...

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    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    The pod racing scene was undoubtedly fun. But there could have been another way of showing us that Anakin had skills far beyond what a normal human could manage. And everything about Maul was pretty boss, not just his design. Its too bad we didn't get more of him in the movies.

  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    It took a while but I understand Maul’s characterization. He’s an attack dog.

    That said, it would have been a lot better for the Jedi to have some verbal exchanges with Maul to highlight he’s more than some assassin.

    It would also have been great for Palpatine to have some moment where he realizes Maul has hit the ceiling, so to speak, in terms of his usefulness and versatility, and is going to need someone with pathos underlining their hatred.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Is it that time again? :D

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  • Senna1Senna1 Registered User regular
    Nothing about pod racing required Anakin to be, like, 6 years old. And yeah, everything that happens in TPM makes the rest of the PT Padme arc SUPER creepy. Just 'nope' all around. Their relationship should be taboo because of the silly Jedi rules, not because it's actually fucking wrong and reprehensible. Gives an entirely different tone to everything...

    But there's so much wrong with the PT, it's barely worth diving to granular levels like that. Disney could wipe them and re-make them entirely keeping only broad strokes and what's canon from the OT, and be better off.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    The pod racing scene was undoubtedly fun. But there could have been another way of showing us that Anakin had skills far beyond what a normal human could manage. And everything about Maul was pretty boss, not just his design. Its too bad we didn't get more of him in the movies.

    I mean it's a reasonable way to prove a kid has skills. It's impossible for most people to do even with years of experience, so here's a young kid. I think part of it is that Anakin is apparently 9 in that movie and maybe I have no idea what kids look like at ages but he looks and acts like a five year old to me. You could age him up a little more, maybe 11 or 12, and it's a flashy thing that builds the world a little, it makes sense as a job for a slave kid to do.

    I don't think I would make it like a 15-20 minute long action centerpiece, but as a background thing where Obi-Wan can just happen upon this diamond in the rough? Works fine.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I'm sure everybody has a better edit for the prequels than good ol' George did. But endless armchair re-edits are exhausting.

    But its been 20 years. Accept the shit and move on, I say. :) We have a lot more recent things to complain about.

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