So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
Except this is the only scene where missiles do this and in fact the Rocci's fired in the same scene don't. It feels intentional.
So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
Except this is the only scene where missiles do this and in fact the Rocci's fired in the same scene don't. It feels intentional.
They intentionally in-setting had the Belters do something incredibly stupid and/or intentionally try to give the Roci a better chance at surviving is an easier explanation for you rather than one CGI artist made a mistake and then either a different artist didn't make that mistake, or the same person/team realized their mistake and then didn't repeat it, but didn't have the time/money to fix the other scene?
I think it's pretty clearly a mistake and that's fine, we don't need to start contriving why "parsecs" actually makes sense in that sentence in context here.
I could rewatch the scene but wasn't it also acting as a screen to prevent their torpedoes from hitting the zemaya? There have been a few other torpedo formation scenes in the series for defensive purposes.
EDIT: forgot to spoiler that contribution to the spoilered conversation...
So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
Or, more importantly, to the Roci crew.
It's possible that the Zmeya's orders weren't to destroy the Roci, but to ensure that the protomolecule sample got delivered. There was no guarantee that they'd win a straight up slugging match against a Martian frigate, so they just put up as big a distraction as possible to buy time for the sample to get away.
Plus, if you're dropping the torpedoes backwards and trying to have them collide with the Roci, they're all going to be coming from a narrow area that's more easily covered by the PDCs. Slow them down a bit, you have enough time to spread them out, while still giving them enough time to converge back at the target from multiple directions.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
Except this is the only scene where missiles do this and in fact the Rocci's fired in the same scene don't. It feels intentional.
They intentionally in-setting had the Belters do something incredibly stupid and/or intentionally try to give the Roci a better chance at surviving is an easier explanation for you rather than one CGI artist made a mistake and then either a different artist didn't make that mistake, or the same person/team realized their mistake and then didn't repeat it, but didn't have the time/money to fix the other scene?
I think it's pretty clearly a mistake and that's fine, we don't need to start contriving why "parsecs" actually makes sense in that sentence in context here.
I'm not sure what the mistake is here? It's very intentional that they're all heading the same direction.
the two that intercepted the Roci torpedos did so by cutting thrust for a fraction of a second. All the rest doing so to reorient and aim at the pursuer would have meant the Roci zooming past in a second. The two epstein driven ships are accelerating too fast for the chemical rockets to be effective, so they have to do this slow fall thing.
So why were the Zmeya's missiles flying backwards, anyway? Seems you'd want to burn *toward* the target for a least-time intercept course..
Except for the blue one. I think we know why that one was acting weird :P
Episode 7
they were using chemical rockets, rather than epstein drives (except for the special blue one...) so they're nowhere near as efficient as the Zmeya or the Roci. As soon as they're launched, they're falling behind, and the Roci is doing a hard intercept burn to catch the Zmeya.
Even with the Roci turning off the main drive to do a spin, it had built up way more speed than the rockets had. If they'd have cut thrust to flip and aim towards the Roci, there's a high likelihood they would have just zipped past before they finished orienting, so the best they can do is slowly falling towards their target.
No, he means
all those rockets were still facing and burning forward, in the same direction the Roci was heading, which would greatly increase the time to contact and in fact relies on the Roci overtaking the missiles with her superior drive, instead of actually burning towards the Roci in standard missile behavior to quickly intercept (which is actually decelerating from their initial velocity but that's good in this case).
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
Except this is the only scene where missiles do this and in fact the Rocci's fired in the same scene don't. It feels intentional.
They intentionally in-setting had the Belters do something incredibly stupid and/or intentionally try to give the Roci a better chance at surviving is an easier explanation for you rather than one CGI artist made a mistake and then either a different artist didn't make that mistake, or the same person/team realized their mistake and then didn't repeat it, but didn't have the time/money to fix the other scene?
I think it's pretty clearly a mistake and that's fine, we don't need to start contriving why "parsecs" actually makes sense in that sentence in context here.
I'm not sure what the mistake is here? It's very intentional that they're all heading the same direction.
the two that intercepted the Roci torpedos did so by cutting thrust for a fraction of a second. All the rest doing so to reorient and aim at the pursuer would have meant the Roci zooming past in a second. The two epstein driven ships are accelerating too fast for the chemical rockets to be effective, so they have to do this slow fall thing.
For Christ's sake...
They want to reach the Roci in a second! The very next action sequence shows our heroes barely destroying all the missiles in time, imagine if there was less time. The faster the "fall" the better!
Conjure up whatever justifications make you feel better, I'm ok with the show creators portraying something that doesn't make sense in setting.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Yeah except space is big.
the issue you seem to have is that the rockets would be guaranteed to hit the Roci if they had stopped or reversed. They probably wouldn't! That was their problem, in the second it would take to cut thrust, flip and aim at her, the Roci would be past the rockets. Their only choice is to keep them on the weak falling trajectory, spiral them out and drop all at once.
Edit; I mean, it would be fair to say it's contrived that the Zmeya only has chemical rockets and not a full assortment of 20 epstein driven torpedos, to justify this move happening? I guess? But that also makes sense, torpedos are fucking expensive (Roci only has 8, IIRC?) the rockets were for shooting at Tycho, not a fight. So. Yeah, it's not a mistake, and I feel you're alone in thinking it is.
the issue you seem to have is that the rockets would be guaranteed to hit the Roci if they had stopped or reversed. They probably wouldn't! That was their problem, in the second it would take to cut thrust, flip and aim at her, the Roci would be past the rockets. Their only choice is to keep them on the weak falling trajectory, spiral them out and drop all at once.
There is no "past the rockets", when they Roci reaches them they explode. They don't need to physically touch the Roci, they're nuclear bombs. Even modern air to air missiles don't actually physically hit things, you get the target in the blast radius and explode.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Yeah, you missed some stuff dude.
they're not nuclear, for a start. The Zmeya is armed with basic rockets for attacking Tycho Station, a static target - we get to see how slow and sluggish it is when it's fired at the shipping container. They're not equivalent to the Roci's torpedos, and so they're not much use in the situation they're deployed, hence the weird use case.
If the Zmeya had launched em all to fire backwards at the Roci, it would have been a nice single file line of rockets to pop in a row, they lack the maneuverability to do anything else.
Edit; ya could go ask James S.A Corey on the tweeters if you're genuinely convinced it's a mistake - they're super candid about shortcuts / goofs made in the show.
they're not nuclear, for a start. The Zmeya is armed with basic rockets for attacking Tycho Station, a static target - we get to see how slow and sluggish it is when it's fired at the shipping container. They're not equivalent to the Roci's torpedos, and so they're not much use in the situation they're deployed, hence the weird use case.
If the Zmeya had launched em all to fire backwards at the Roci, it would have been a nice single file line of rockets to pop in a row, they lack the maneuverability to do anything else.
Edit; ya could go ask James S.A Corey on the tweeters if you're genuinely convinced it's a mistake - they're super candid about shortcuts / goofs made in the show.
This is absurd
Even if they're not nuclear, we agree they're explosive, right? Why the fuck would they be flying in a single file when flying in the right direction rather than actually as they were, but in the right direction? How does being slower or less powerful than the Roci's missiles mean they have to be deployed in a literally ass backwards way? How does that improve the situation?
You never actually describe why it's better that it takes longer for the belter missiles to make contact with the Roci, your only argument was that the Roci would reach them too quickly when the enemy wants these missiles to reach the target as soon as possible so there's less opportunity for defensive fire!
I don't use Twitter, you can ask if you want.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
The argument is that the torpedos actually need time to get on an intercept. They can't fire directly back because the ship carrying them is in the way.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Watching season 4
I kind of wish they had used another actor for Murtry because the minute he steps on screen you know 90% of what you need to know about the character. Dude just has one of those faces.
Also, I don’t like how little the show does to establish why some random Earth corp thinks it has a claim to that particular planet. I know we’re supposed to side with the Belters, and I do, I just wanted there to be more nuance to the arguments.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
they're not nuclear, for a start. The Zmeya is armed with basic rockets for attacking Tycho Station, a static target - we get to see how slow and sluggish it is when it's fired at the shipping container. They're not equivalent to the Roci's torpedos, and so they're not much use in the situation they're deployed, hence the weird use case.
If the Zmeya had launched em all to fire backwards at the Roci, it would have been a nice single file line of rockets to pop in a row, they lack the maneuverability to do anything else.
Edit; ya could go ask James S.A Corey on the tweeters if you're genuinely convinced it's a mistake - they're super candid about shortcuts / goofs made in the show.
I don't use Twitter, you can ask if you want.
Pfft, I ain't gonna devil's advocate trying to prove a negative, I think you're wrong! :P
Although there is a continuity / visual error in that scene, it's just unrelated to your complaint...
Holden says he's charging up the railgun at the end, but we see the railgun UI a few seconds earlier and both batteries are fully charged.
I kind of wish they had used another actor for Murtry because the minute he steps on screen you know 90% of what you need to know about the character. Dude just has one of those faces.
Also, I don’t like how little the show does to establish why some random Earth corp thinks it has a claim to that particular planet. I know we’re supposed to side with the Belters, and I do, I just wanted there to be more nuance to the arguments.
Because they bid for and were rewarded a charter to establish a colony on that planet. They had the legal right to be there, assuming you believe Earth has legal authority over ring planets.
I am in the business of saving lives.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Yes I read the books up to a little past that one
And that’s the crux of the question, isn’t it?
There’s really nothing saying Earth has legal authority over any of it, aside from their ability and proclivity to use force to get what they want.
What I had forgotten about, but find much more interesting, is how quickly “the dream of Mars” begins to fall apart once the possibility of habitable worlds that don’t require generational work is introduced.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Yeah, they weren't being super subtle with their colonizers analogy, Royal Charter Energy felt super on the nose. ;P
I love the Mars problem, and how slow the true believers are to even consider it.
A story of guys who followed due process and paid good money to colonize a place butting heads with wildcat settlers hoping to claim squatter's rights would be an interesting one, I really liked the way HBO's Deadwood treated it, with the residents of the eponymous illegal town being very concerned with setting up a veneer of civilization and who to bribe so their land rights would be honored, etc. The authors here tried to make it even more dramatic by having the belters straight up commit an act of terrorism and bomb the corporate ship, killing tons of innocent people.
...and then make the corporate lead character the antagonist and the belter lead character very likeable and we toss all nuance out the window, downtrodden belters = good, corporate team = bad.
I think playing that with no villains on either side would be more interesting, but then again the entire premise is pretty silly, it's a goddamn planet, pick a different hemisphere for your colony and leave any evictions to the space police or whatever.
A story of guys who followed due process and paid good money to colonize a place butting heads with wildcat settlers hoping to claim squatter's rights would be an interesting one, I really liked the way HBO's Deadwood treated it, with the residents of the eponymous illegal town being very concerned with setting up a veneer of civilization and who to bribe so their land rights would be honored, etc. The authors here tried to make it even more dramatic by having the belters straight up commit an act of terrorism and bomb the corporate ship, killing tons of innocent people.
...and then make the corporate lead character the antagonist and the belter lead character very likeable and we toss all nuance out the window, downtrodden belters = good, corporate team = bad.
I think playing that with no villains on either side would be more interesting, but then again the entire premise is pretty silly, it's a goddamn planet, pick a different hemisphere for your colony and leave any evictions to the space police or whatever.
I'm not sure how it's played in the show 'cause I haven't gotten there, but I'm just over halfway through the book and up to this point it's been more nuanced than that. The Belters fucked up a lot of shit and made a ton of stupid decisions that put themselves and their families at risk, not to mention the fact they fired the opening shot by murdering a bunch of people in a terrorist bombing, while you have the science team and Elvi as a POV character showing that the corpos aren't all murderous jackboots like Murtry.
Maybe it all changes as the book goes on though, like I said I'm not all the way through it yet.
Why have murderous jackboots at all, though? Why isn't Murtry also a sympathetic character? I just feel like there didn't need to be an antagonist beyond the environment there.
A story of guys who followed due process and paid good money to colonize a place butting heads with wildcat settlers hoping to claim squatter's rights would be an interesting one, I really liked the way HBO's Deadwood treated it, with the residents of the eponymous illegal town being very concerned with setting up a veneer of civilization and who to bribe so their land rights would be honored, etc. The authors here tried to make it even more dramatic by having the belters straight up commit an act of terrorism and bomb the corporate ship, killing tons of innocent people.
...and then make the corporate lead character the antagonist and the belter lead character very likeable and we toss all nuance out the window, downtrodden belters = good, corporate team = bad.
I think playing that with no villains on either side would be more interesting, but then again the entire premise is pretty silly, it's a goddamn planet, pick a different hemisphere for your colony and leave any evictions to the space police or whatever.
I believe the goal was lithium deposits, not just having a colony. The belters wanted an economy.
Yea but it's a planet, that's a mining site not the mining site. I guess I'd accept an insistence on the one they bid for a charter to rather than some potentially worse location, but then again "realistically" instead of the Roci and James Holden playing sheriff it'd be a normal navy frigate and squad of power armor marines telling the belters to leave.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
For the Belters, they landed on the site with the richest mineral deposits. For the Corp, they landed where the Belters did because of the same reason, and also because it's "their" planet, and also because the science staff had a vain hope of getting the Belters to participate in zero impact living on the surface, and also because Murtry is a goon, etc.
Honestly after the events of the past year, Murtry being a jackbooted thug who has no problem murdering The Other feels perfectly realistic and I think it would be weird if he wasn't
Well after being almost murdered yourself and having many people you just spent months traveling with killed I think being loose with violence has less to do with "The Other" and more with the traumatic event you experienced, which is fine and interesting.
But both the book and the show go out of their way to make Murtry extra thuggish so you don't have to worry about a complex situation so shrug, whatever.
I mean, I've met people like him in both my time in the service and out of it, so him being thuggish is the most resonant bit to me. The attitude was pretty spot on.
Yea but it's a planet, that's a mining site not the mining site. I guess I'd accept an insistence on the one they bid for a charter to rather than some potentially worse location, but then again "realistically" instead of the Roci and James Holden playing sheriff it'd be a normal navy frigate and squad of power armor marines telling the belters to leave.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
This is a little future book spoilers but
They're somewhat artificial planets. There is a fucking shit ton of lithium in that one spot and that one spot only, so yeah it is the mining spot. It's not a natural deposit of lithium, it's where the aliens stored their excess lithium.
Yea but it's a planet, that's a mining site not the mining site. I guess I'd accept an insistence on the one they bid for a charter to rather than some potentially worse location, but then again "realistically" instead of the Roci and James Holden playing sheriff it'd be a normal navy frigate and squad of power armor marines telling the belters to leave.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
This is a little future book spoilers but
They're somewhat artificial planets. There is a fucking shit ton of lithium in that one spot and that one spot only, so yeah it is the mining spot. It's not a natural deposit of lithium, it's where the aliens stored their excess lithium.
I thought they were producing lithium via nuclear alchemy, like fusion basically.
Yea but it's a planet, that's a mining site not the mining site. I guess I'd accept an insistence on the one they bid for a charter to rather than some potentially worse location, but then again "realistically" instead of the Roci and James Holden playing sheriff it'd be a normal navy frigate and squad of power armor marines telling the belters to leave.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
This is a little future book spoilers but
They're somewhat artificial planets. There is a fucking shit ton of lithium in that one spot and that one spot only, so yeah it is the mining spot. It's not a natural deposit of lithium, it's where the aliens stored their excess lithium.
I thought they were producing lithium via nuclear alchemy, like fusion basically.
Book 4/season 4 spoilers
The reactors on Ilus were just there to produce power, the lithium was seeded there a long time ago.
Yea but it's a planet, that's a mining site not the mining site. I guess I'd accept an insistence on the one they bid for a charter to rather than some potentially worse location, but then again "realistically" instead of the Roci and James Holden playing sheriff it'd be a normal navy frigate and squad of power armor marines telling the belters to leave.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
This is a little future book spoilers but
They're somewhat artificial planets. There is a fucking shit ton of lithium in that one spot and that one spot only, so yeah it is the mining spot. It's not a natural deposit of lithium, it's where the aliens stored their excess lithium.
I thought they were producing lithium via nuclear alchemy, like fusion basically.
The aliens? Possibly, but it doesn't really matter how or why the aliens put the lithium in that location. If you mean the Belters, I'm pretty sure they were doing future mining that is basically exactly like our current mining
Either way the deposit of lithium the belters were mining was put there by the aliens, and that lithium was the only reason the corporation was there. I'm pretty sure the book mentions that there were much more hospitable locations on the planet, but none of them had a natural resource like the lithium "deposit", so no one wanted to start a colony anywhere but where the Belters already started one.
Episode 5-8:
I guess the only way Naomi was going to fail that many skill checks was to have her suffer from prior exposure to hard vacuum AND lack the proper tools.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Episode 8
they did a pretty good job conveying Naomi's thought process without dialogue!
The new SG's speech was all red flags to me, talking up revenge rather than rebuilding and making Earth safe. We're still in cascade failure territory, billions could die, focusing on going after the prick what done it feels trivial.
Still feels pretty weird that they bothered wiring all that tamper proofing into the Chetzemoka if no one was meant to be on board though. ;P
Drummer screaming was devastating, but I remember a line from S4; "I only drink when I'm angry, not sad"
With mild book spoilers
after flip flopping on the Amazon X-Ray details for a few weeks, we finally got a hard, in show confirmation - Sandrine Holt is playing Oksana, as she refers to the other woman as Michio. Kinda bummed, I'd prefer that name going to her, as she's a much more prominent character.
Episode 5-8:
I guess the only way Naomi was going to fail that many skill checks was to have her suffer from prior exposure to hard vacuum AND lack the proper tools.
I mean, as a GM, I can tell you that, after a certain point, it's nearly impossible for the skill monkey PCs to fail without stacking penalties on them.
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No, he means
The answer is that it's a mistake by the artists who don't understand the momentum situation and were just told "in this series when spaceships are approaching someone, their engines are facing them and burning" without explaining "those ships were moving at tremendous speed toward the target with their engines off and now need to rapidly decelerate unless they intend to zip past them in a second".
So they didn't know to do anything different when "these missiles are moving at tremendous speed in the same direction as the Roci, if they don't turn on their engines the Roci will fly into them, if they flip and burn toward the Roci they'll meet it sooner, and what was presented on screen just makes them crappier missiles".
Doing it the right way would also have made that one blue missile speeding off more noticeably interesting to viewers.
I think it's pretty clearly a mistake and that's fine, we don't need to start contriving why "parsecs" actually makes sense in that sentence in context here.
It's possible that the Zmeya's orders weren't to destroy the Roci, but to ensure that the protomolecule sample got delivered. There was no guarantee that they'd win a straight up slugging match against a Martian frigate, so they just put up as big a distraction as possible to buy time for the sample to get away.
Plus, if you're dropping the torpedoes backwards and trying to have them collide with the Roci, they're all going to be coming from a narrow area that's more easily covered by the PDCs. Slow them down a bit, you have enough time to spread them out, while still giving them enough time to converge back at the target from multiple directions.
I'm not sure what the mistake is here? It's very intentional that they're all heading the same direction.
For Christ's sake...
Conjure up whatever justifications make you feel better, I'm ok with the show creators portraying something that doesn't make sense in setting.
Edit; I mean, it would be fair to say it's contrived that the Zmeya only has chemical rockets and not a full assortment of 20 epstein driven torpedos, to justify this move happening? I guess? But that also makes sense, torpedos are fucking expensive (Roci only has 8, IIRC?) the rockets were for shooting at Tycho, not a fight. So. Yeah, it's not a mistake, and I feel you're alone in thinking it is.
If the Zmeya had launched em all to fire backwards at the Roci, it would have been a nice single file line of rockets to pop in a row, they lack the maneuverability to do anything else.
Edit; ya could go ask James S.A Corey on the tweeters if you're genuinely convinced it's a mistake - they're super candid about shortcuts / goofs made in the show.
This is absurd
You never actually describe why it's better that it takes longer for the belter missiles to make contact with the Roci, your only argument was that the Roci would reach them too quickly when the enemy wants these missiles to reach the target as soon as possible so there's less opportunity for defensive fire!
I don't use Twitter, you can ask if you want.
I kind of wish they had used another actor for Murtry because the minute he steps on screen you know 90% of what you need to know about the character. Dude just has one of those faces.
Also, I don’t like how little the show does to establish why some random Earth corp thinks it has a claim to that particular planet. I know we’re supposed to side with the Belters, and I do, I just wanted there to be more nuance to the arguments.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Pfft, I ain't gonna devil's advocate trying to prove a negative, I think you're wrong! :P
Although there is a continuity / visual error in that scene, it's just unrelated to your complaint...
Because they bid for and were rewarded a charter to establish a colony on that planet. They had the legal right to be there, assuming you believe Earth has legal authority over ring planets.
And that’s the crux of the question, isn’t it?
There’s really nothing saying Earth has legal authority over any of it, aside from their ability and proclivity to use force to get what they want.
What I had forgotten about, but find much more interesting, is how quickly “the dream of Mars” begins to fall apart once the possibility of habitable worlds that don’t require generational work is introduced.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I love the Mars problem, and how slow the true believers are to even consider it.
...and then make the corporate lead character the antagonist and the belter lead character very likeable and we toss all nuance out the window, downtrodden belters = good, corporate team = bad.
I think playing that with no villains on either side would be more interesting, but then again the entire premise is pretty silly, it's a goddamn planet, pick a different hemisphere for your colony and leave any evictions to the space police or whatever.
I'm not sure how it's played in the show 'cause I haven't gotten there, but I'm just over halfway through the book and up to this point it's been more nuanced than that. The Belters fucked up a lot of shit and made a ton of stupid decisions that put themselves and their families at risk, not to mention the fact they fired the opening shot by murdering a bunch of people in a terrorist bombing, while you have the science team and Elvi as a POV character showing that the corpos aren't all murderous jackboots like Murtry.
Maybe it all changes as the book goes on though, like I said I'm not all the way through it yet.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I believe the goal was lithium deposits, not just having a colony. The belters wanted an economy.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Ultimately I'd be happy if Murtry was less of a mustache twirling villain.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
But both the book and the show go out of their way to make Murtry extra thuggish so you don't have to worry about a complex situation so shrug, whatever.
This is a little future book spoilers but
Book 4/season 4 spoilers
Either way the deposit of lithium the belters were mining was put there by the aliens, and that lithium was the only reason the corporation was there. I'm pretty sure the book mentions that there were much more hospitable locations on the planet, but none of them had a natural resource like the lithium "deposit", so no one wanted to start a colony anywhere but where the Belters already started one.
He's like, the guy you call for that role.
His characters in Torchwood, Pacific Rim, and The Dark Knight Returns Rises are not exactly what I would personally describe as violent thug.
Edit:
Wrong DKR
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
He's in Pacific Rim?
He was Dr. Hermann Gottlieb.
I guess the only way Naomi was going to fail that many skill checks was to have her suffer from prior exposure to hard vacuum AND lack the proper tools.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
The new SG's speech was all red flags to me, talking up revenge rather than rebuilding and making Earth safe. We're still in cascade failure territory, billions could die, focusing on going after the prick what done it feels trivial.
Still feels pretty weird that they bothered wiring all that tamper proofing into the Chetzemoka if no one was meant to be on board though. ;P
Drummer screaming was devastating, but I remember a line from S4; "I only drink when I'm angry, not sad"
With mild book spoilers
I mean, as a GM, I can tell you that, after a certain point, it's nearly impossible for the skill monkey PCs to fail without stacking penalties on them.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.