It feels to me like this is basically all solved with a better loot system and better matchmaking.
Do card-based matchmaking. Players going for their 7th win are facing other players going for their 7th or even 6th win. Players with 1 win and 2 losses on their card face off against other players in a similar situation. This will push the better teams up into higher brackets and increase the odds that the worse teams are facing each other more in their matches. Going flawless means you are gonna have to push through at least a few though matches and noobies or casual players just dipping their toes into Trials get games where they can at least have a chance to grab a few wins.
Then restructure the loot system so less skilled teams can at least get something out of the experience and the higher skill teams get something worth grinding for. Give players a reason to want to consistently go flawless so they have no incentive to farm the lower levels of the ticket. And hand out at least something to the teams getting stepped on by teams on their way to flawless so they have a reason to actually come back.
There's already card based matchmaking. The problem people are having is people completing their cards and then going back for seconds: since card based matchmaking doesn't take into account how many times you've completed cards, multi-time flawless folks starting on a new card are matchmade against people who are trying out trials for the first time ever.
So I'm just bored enough to actually contemplate doing all of the Banner bounties on all of my characters this time. For people who have done this already, will the Triumph proc when I have every bounty ready to turn in, or only when I actually turn in all 12? And if the latter, would I miss the Triumph if I turned them all in when Banner wasn't running (aka, when I hit 1000 and can take best advantage of Pinnacle stuff)?
I’ve noticed my mindbenders drop rate increase once I put on some shaders and ornaments
Rngesus respects style
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awsimoa perfectly cromulent human; definitely not a robotRegistered Userregular
edited March 2020
I finally got around to updating the intro blurb for our group on The100.io. While I was doing that, I re-discovered this incredible artifact. I forget who originally made it, but bravo, sir. Bravo.
There's already card based matchmaking. The problem people are having is people completing their cards and then going back for seconds: since card based matchmaking doesn't take into account how many times you've completed cards, multi-time flawless folks starting on a new card are matchmade against people who are trying out trials for the first time ever.
From what I remember of their statement, there's card-based matchmaking on the higher end of the ticket. It did not sound like there was much on the lower end. If you have more rigorous card-based matchmaking it should push the flawless folk into the higher win brackets faster so the people in the lower brackets encounter them less. Depending on how population dynamics work out.
But you also need to remove the incentives for people to be trying for anything but 7 wins/flawless or nothing you do is gonna work.
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awsimoa perfectly cromulent human; definitely not a robotRegistered Userregular
edited March 2020
There was also this gem:
Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
I kinda don't mind Suros because I kinda like the Return of the King but yeah Hardlight is dumb and I miss Pulses and Scouts having a place.
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awsimoa perfectly cromulent human; definitely not a robotRegistered Userregular
*throws back a bolt of whiskey, stares into the middle distance*
I was there for the dark days of Thorn's ascendance. When the Wolf Lords ran wild across the land. When Laser Tag sent so many to the oblivion of ragequit.
But I never thought I'd see the day when Hard Light ruled the comp meta.....
I finally got around to updating the intro blurb for our group on The100.io. While I was doing that, I re-discovered this incredible artifact. I forget who originally made it, but bravo, sir. Bravo.
I finally got around to updating the intro blurb for our group on The100.io. While I was doing that, I re-discovered this incredible artifact. I forget who originally made it, but bravo, sir. Bravo.
It's only the third weekend of Trials and it's been rough.
Friday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Saturday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Sunday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Eh we got to 6 wins on a clean card twice, we could've gone. The frustrating thing is I felt like I got worse as the weekend wore on and my spirit started to break. Like day one I was playing a lot more confident.
Yeah, it's kinda crazy where before I was like "I'm gonna go hard for that Flawless seal, it only requires going Flawless on 4 different maps and carrying once, totally doable" and now I'm like "if I can get to 5 wins by Monday night, I'm gonna be happy."
Skill gap seems like it compressed damn near immediately.
As much as I loved Widow's Court in D1 Trials (where it was criminally underused), I'm not a fan of it in the D2 meta.
Despite not enjoying sniping, I was doing alright with the Revoker / Hard Light combo for a while. I had way more fun with the aggressive shotgun playstyle, but not quite as much success. I'd love a fusion rifle friendly map, as that's been my weapon of choice since D1.
Last weekend's map was way too upclose, this one is really long sight lines, both maps Hard Light dominates because ricochet and no damage fall-off. I was so desperate to perform I put on the Revoker/HL combo and I was mapping people with Hard Light as they tried to snipe me.
It's just not a fun meta where every single hallway is a death trap, making entire lanes (like the broken apartment approach) completely pointless to push. So you either have wimpy Revoker snipe battles at the staircase or the team with strong spawn rushes up street with a sniper backing them up to wipe the weak side.
Idk Revoker probably should only refund a shot one time, after that it's gone if you miss again.
Edit: looking at Reddit, people are mentioning that matchmaker is putting people together in trials from across different regions. One player on the east coast US played against people in South America, Middle East and more. Connections definitely felt a little fudgey in some matches we had, with melee fights seeming to favor host pretty obviously.
Local H Jay on
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
It took 2500 tokens but we did it boys.
Full Crucible set with 100 mobility (after masterworking) and 90 recovery. Had to sacrifice a bit of int, but oh well.
I felt like I was running low when I hit 1k tokens in my inventory, and then remembered that I had 4k in my vault.
Fusion rifle kills in Iron Banner is tooo haaaard.
I was struggling until until Bastion was suggested to me. Then I knocked it out in 2 rounds. Felt easier to aim IMHO, and was almost an assured 1 shot. Even got 2 kills at once a single time.
It could also be that the random match making finally moved me from sweaty hell to potato land after I'd gone enough rounds with such a sad k/d ratio due to attempting said fusion kills.
Same on xbox. We had a few golden runs but ultimately the matchmaker is fickle and it's only a matter of time until they drop the hammer of some gods on you. Like I mentioned up thread, it sucks your soul out to know you can get so close only to get smacked down at the end. And then you start to either tilt and get mad, or get defeated mentally and start playing dumb in frustration. Doesn't help all the immature teabaggers who seem to have so many flawless. It seems like the more scummy and unsportsmanlike you play the better you do, sometimes.
I'm enjoying the format but not the meta. Sniping is a joke with Revoker around, it's not about skill but who can edge closer to the door frame and get a pick first
I always felt like Revoker was a potentially broken concept, and then Trials proved it. It's Icebreaker-lite.
But yeah, the idea that some of our top-end PVP players are struggling so damn hard to make either Flawless or even minor headway compared to the prior Trials modes reinforces the idea that its something with Matchmaking or the incentive structure because if you had told me before Trials came back that the teams that you guys are putting together couldn't make it during day-time runs, or that Booker (a damn good player in any sane sense), and Peen and I (not slouches, but not certainly not the best) couldn't break into 3 wins I'd have thought it was absurd. And yet here we are.
It's almost like the people demanding that Trials couldn't change didn't know what they actually wanted. But then again, even if they had copy/pasted the old reward structure, it maybe would have worked better.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Man, even at 993 the Legendary Lost Sectors are too head-to-wall painful to play solo. The Fallen in them seem to do nothing but chuck grenades and dealing with Servitors outfitted with Barrier is just too aggravating. Especially when they got two or three mooks covered in shields.
Man, even at 993 the Legendary Lost Sectors are too head-to-wall painful to play solo. The Fallen in them seem to do nothing but chuck grenades and dealing with Servitors outfitted with Barrier is just too aggravating. Especially when they got two or three mooks covered in shields.
You only need to kill the boss and claim the chest, so unless it’s one of the ones gated where you can’t progress without clearing the area, it’s possible to ignore or stealth past guys and just nuke the boss
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
I always felt like Revoker was a potentially broken concept, and then Trials proved it. It's Icebreaker-lite.
But yeah, the idea that some of our top-end PVP players are struggling so damn hard to make either Flawless or even minor headway compared to the prior Trials modes reinforces the idea that its something with Matchmaking or the incentive structure because if you had told me before Trials came back that the teams that you guys are putting together couldn't make it during day-time runs, or that Booker (a damn good player in any sane sense), and Peen and I (not slouches, but not certainly not the best) couldn't break into 3 wins I'd have thought it was absurd. And yet here we are.
It's almost like the people demanding that Trials couldn't change didn't know what they actually wanted. But then again, even if they had copy/pasted the old reward structure, it maybe would have worked better.
It's a pretty predictable consequence of the people at the bottom of the trials skill pool getting nothing from the entire mode. Someone on reddit called it "skill creep". The lowest skill players in the matchmaking pool lose, get nothing for the losses and say "fuck it" and never come back. Then the people just above them become the lowest skill players in the pool and the process repeats itself. Eventually you are either the best of the best players or you are the people getting your face kicked in, regardless of your skill within the overall community. And then almost nobody can win games.
I picked Last Word back up this weekend and man it's so good on the sticks now. I know it was possible to pop off with it before, but holding diagonally left down on both sticks at once was just more work than I was willing to put in for Destiny tbh. So it's new form is perfect since now I don't need any stick management at all and can even save my delicate left middle finger from the cruel mistress of ADS.
Spent a lot of time pairing it with Point of the Stag and that combo is filthy down in the elo slums were I live. Highly recommend that my fellow potatoes give it a whirl, also I guess it might be good for real players as well but idk.
Man, even at 993 the Legendary Lost Sectors are too head-to-wall painful to play solo. The Fallen in them seem to do nothing but chuck grenades and dealing with Servitors outfitted with Barrier is just too aggravating. Especially when they got two or three mooks covered in shields.
I was the same, decided to leave it until I hit 1000.
It’s much, much better when you meet and then exceed the requirements.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited March 2020
Posting this here as well as in the discord because look at it.
My back, it is broken.
But don't worry, as a palate cleanser we have a 4v6!
Posts
The Swiss pairing system exists for a reason tbh
Destiny Profile : http://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/7028016
Rngesus respects style
From what I remember of their statement, there's card-based matchmaking on the higher end of the ticket. It did not sound like there was much on the lower end. If you have more rigorous card-based matchmaking it should push the flawless folk into the higher win brackets faster so the people in the lower brackets encounter them less. Depending on how population dynamics work out.
But you also need to remove the incentives for people to be trying for anything but 7 wins/flawless or nothing you do is gonna work.
AR meta is trash
I was there for the dark days of Thorn's ascendance. When the Wolf Lords ran wild across the land. When Laser Tag sent so many to the oblivion of ragequit.
But I never thought I'd see the day when Hard Light ruled the comp meta.....
@ElementWrath is Judas
XBL: Sans Gravitas, Steam, Destiny, Twitch
Destiny Raid Groups: Team NATBurn, Team Fourth Meal (Disbanded)
Its very in character that he’s trying to take Jay’s food.
Friday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Saturday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Sunday: "This experience is terrible. What kind of people would willingly put themselves through this miserable, painful experience for rewards that are ever farther out of reach?"
Anyway, see you guys next weekend!
Skill gap seems like it compressed damn near immediately.
Despite not enjoying sniping, I was doing alright with the Revoker / Hard Light combo for a while. I had way more fun with the aggressive shotgun playstyle, but not quite as much success. I'd love a fusion rifle friendly map, as that's been my weapon of choice since D1.
I'm hoping next weekend's map is more my style.
It's just not a fun meta where every single hallway is a death trap, making entire lanes (like the broken apartment approach) completely pointless to push. So you either have wimpy Revoker snipe battles at the staircase or the team with strong spawn rushes up street with a sniper backing them up to wipe the weak side.
Idk Revoker probably should only refund a shot one time, after that it's gone if you miss again.
Edit: looking at Reddit, people are mentioning that matchmaker is putting people together in trials from across different regions. One player on the east coast US played against people in South America, Middle East and more. Connections definitely felt a little fudgey in some matches we had, with melee fights seeming to favor host pretty obviously.
Full Crucible set with 100 mobility (after masterworking) and 90 recovery. Had to sacrifice a bit of int, but oh well.
I felt like I was running low when I hit 1k tokens in my inventory, and then remembered that I had 4k in my vault.
I was struggling until until Bastion was suggested to me. Then I knocked it out in 2 rounds. Felt easier to aim IMHO, and was almost an assured 1 shot. Even got 2 kills at once a single time.
It could also be that the random match making finally moved me from sweaty hell to potato land after I'd gone enough rounds with such a sad k/d ratio due to attempting said fusion kills.
We did it in d2 y2 week 1 or 2. We have NF and my buddy us getting unbroken soon.
We’re not bad at crucible.
We are getting destroyed in trials this time. We’re lucky to get a 3 win card going before blowing our mercy. It’s real tough out there on PS4.
I'm enjoying the format but not the meta. Sniping is a joke with Revoker around, it's not about skill but who can edge closer to the door frame and get a pick first
But yeah, the idea that some of our top-end PVP players are struggling so damn hard to make either Flawless or even minor headway compared to the prior Trials modes reinforces the idea that its something with Matchmaking or the incentive structure because if you had told me before Trials came back that the teams that you guys are putting together couldn't make it during day-time runs, or that Booker (a damn good player in any sane sense), and Peen and I (not slouches, but not certainly not the best) couldn't break into 3 wins I'd have thought it was absurd. And yet here we are.
It's almost like the people demanding that Trials couldn't change didn't know what they actually wanted. But then again, even if they had copy/pasted the old reward structure, it maybe would have worked better.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
It's a pretty predictable consequence of the people at the bottom of the trials skill pool getting nothing from the entire mode. Someone on reddit called it "skill creep". The lowest skill players in the matchmaking pool lose, get nothing for the losses and say "fuck it" and never come back. Then the people just above them become the lowest skill players in the pool and the process repeats itself. Eventually you are either the best of the best players or you are the people getting your face kicked in, regardless of your skill within the overall community. And then almost nobody can win games.
Spent a lot of time pairing it with Point of the Stag and that combo is filthy down in the elo slums were I live. Highly recommend that my fellow potatoes give it a whirl, also I guess it might be good for real players as well but idk.
I was the same, decided to leave it until I hit 1000.
It’s much, much better when you meet and then exceed the requirements.
My back, it is broken.
But don't worry, as a palate cleanser we have a 4v6!