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Fox News, the Liberal Media, news in America.

MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
edited May 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
So after the discussion came up in the Stewart vs Colbert thread, I wanted to continue this conversation about the state of the media, specifically the news media, in America today.

Key Players:

bill.jpg

Bill O'Reilly - A conservative with heavily right-wing viewpoints. O'Reilly's television show, The O'Reilly Factor, is routinely the highest-rated show of the three major U.S. 24-hour cable news channels (CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC).

Here's a few clips from various sources, including Outfoxed (more on that later)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJo4erfBNTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skBNgeL5jOk
http://www.outfoxed.org/oreillyattacks.php


rupert.jpg

Fox News - The Fox News Channel (FNC) is an United States-based cable and satellite news channel. It is owned by the Fox Entertainment Group, and is a subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation. As of January 2005, it is available to 85 million households in the U.S. and further to viewers internationally, broadcasting primarily out of its New York City studios. Known for it's right wing stance and the catchphrase "Fair and Balanced"

Fox has been the target of heavy criticism that they are biased in their reporting, so much so that there has been a documentary produced with the intent to inform people of this. It is called OUTFOXED. They claim Fox News bullies guests, slants stories to support conservative views, and more.

Here are some clips of OUTFOXED, that highlight their problems with Fox News. As a liberal and Democrat, I personally recommend this documentary.
http://www.outfoxed.org/Clips.php

And here's President Clinton ripping them a new one.
Part 1
Part 2


Olbermann.jpg

Keith Olbermann - Basically the liberal counter to Bill O'reilly. He currently hosts Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, an hour-long nightly newscast that reviews the top news stories of the day along with political commentary by Olbermann.

Some Clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qknkxPw9aDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2KU02lsfH8


250px-DailyShowClinton.jpg

Jon Stewart and The Daily Show - Jon hosts TDS, of course, and generally has a more liberal take on issues, although the show will often criticize Democrats for being weak against the Republicans. Oddly, The Daily Show has become almost a news show in it's own right, at least to it's viewers. This is often attributed to the fact that not only has the show become more informative, but that more disturbingly, it also represents a trend in traditional media to be less informative, or at the very least more influenced by hype. This has led The Daily Show to increase greatly in popularity as they will hold peoples feet to the fire, as it were, when news outlets often don't.

Jon himself has criticized the media for this decline in integrity, most famously on Crossfire, which was cancelled shortly after his appearance.

Jon also talked with Bill O'reilly


250px-Colbert-truthiness.jpg

Stephen Colbert and the Colbert Report - Fomerly a correspondent on The Daily Show, Stephen was spun off into the Report (pronounced re-pour). Stephen plays the show as an ultra right-wing conservative with heavy, heavy satire. His character, which he rarely lapses from, is based on many conservative pundits, most notably Bill O'Reilly, whom Stephen calls 'Papa Bear'. Often, his portrayal is so strong that people don't realize he is playing a character.

Speaking of, Stephen talked to O'Reilly as well.

He also gave an amazing speech at the White House Correspondent's Dinner. (this may not be the whole video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-4E8ZDj9s



Admittedly, I am on the left side of this argument, but I find it very unsettling that comedy programs are becoming the standard for media integrity. What happened to us? Is television news corrupted beyond repair? Is there anyone who can report on the news and politics today, dare I say it, with neutrality and fairness? How do we fix it?

Discuss.

There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
MuddBudd on
«134

Posts

  • Bryse EayoBryse Eayo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Admittedly, I am on the left side of this argument, but I find it very unsettling that comedy programs are becoming the standard for media integrity. What happened to us? Is television news corrupted beyond repair? Is there anyone who can report on the news and politics today, dare I say it, with neutrality and fairness? How do we fix it?

    I for one agree 100%. It's sad to see O'Reilly at the top.

    Wait, what?

    Bryse Eayo on
  • EthelredEthelred Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I'm not really old enough to know how news was in the past, as I'm only 19, but it seems to me that the largest problem with the media is that its aim is to make money rather than report the news. That's not to say that they just don't give a damn about journalism, but that in the fight to see who can grab hold of the most viewers (and thus the most money), the media has lost sight of what people really need to hear. While running a story that would improve their audience's understanding of Islam would be of benefit, they'd rather run the story on the missing girl because more people will watch it.

    I know this type of competition has been happening as long as there has been a free media (and even before that), but when news began to be consolidated and folded into corporations, the bottom line became profit rather than journalistic credibility.

    That's my take on it, at least.

    Ethelred on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    See what Gore is saying on TDS right fucking now.

    Fencingsax on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    See what Gore is saying on TDS right fucking now.

    I will when I get home, thank god for TIVO.

    I love that man.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Mom2KatMom2Kat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This is why I still like to get my tv news from local sources. I find CTV, CBC, and Global to be much better than the American news channels. CBC Newsworld if I want a 24 hour channel. I also like to watch BBC and DW when I am visiting my Dads since he gets both.

    This is not to say that our news sources are perfect. They all have a slight slant, Global being the worst, and our print media is almost as bad as the stuff south of the border.

    Mom2Kat on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    meh, you're never gonna get the bias or slant out of the media, the best you can ask for imo is that they acknowledge that. My main sources of news are now blogs from all over the spectrum that are written by bloggers whose opinions and stances are very clear.

    dlinfiniti on
    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I catch a lot of BBC stuff online (internet is my primary news source at this point, like many in my age group) and I am fairly impressed by them.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    NPR does a pretty good job. Anymore they (and referrals from D&D) are my main sources of news.

    Irond Will on
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Personally, I don't consider many of the programs mentioned in the OP "news". They're commentary, not unlikely newspaper editorial pages. Or D&D, for that matter. A lot of the shows seem worse moderated that most of our threads :P. If people are getting their news solely from that they aren't looking in the right places.

    Phoenix-D on
  • EthelredEthelred Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Personally, I don't consider many of the programs mentioned in the OP "news". They're commentary, not unlikely newspaper editorial pages. Or D&D, for that matter. A lot of the shows seem worse moderated that most of our threads :P. If people are getting their news solely from that they aren't looking in the right places.

    And that definitely is a problem. To most people, O'Reilly or Olbermann are the news. There isn't a distinction between news analysis and actual news. I guess some (re: a lot of) people want to see the news through a lens that they like rather than get it raw.

    Ethelred on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Ethelred wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Personally, I don't consider many of the programs mentioned in the OP "news". They're commentary, not unlikely newspaper editorial pages. Or D&D, for that matter. A lot of the shows seem worse moderated that most of our threads :P. If people are getting their news solely from that they aren't looking in the right places.

    And that definitely is a problem. To most people, O'Reilly or Olbermann are the news. There isn't a distinction between news analysis and actual news. I guess some (re: a lot of) people want to see the news through a lens that they like rather than get it raw.

    Exactly.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    BBC > everyone else.

    Hacksaw on
  • ALockslyALocksly Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I was just reading an article the other day where a fellow was pointing out many news outlets, in an effort to appear "balanced" will represent all views on a topic equally, even if this does not reflect the real-life status of the topic.

    the example given there was global warming, where the overwhelming majority of scientists consider the matter settled some time ago but a few dissenters have been given equal weight as far as media consideration, in other words making some topics seem more controversial than they actually are by giving a respected platform to a minority opinion.

    edit: my spelling

    ALocksly on
    Yes,... yes, I agree. It's totally unfair that sober you gets into trouble for things that drunk you did.
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    For news, my top sources are a) a series of tubes, and b) Anderson Cooper.
    For commentary, my top sources are a) that same series of tubes, and b) Olbermann (who started off on the news side of the ledger, then something broke in his brain after Katrina and he drifted into punditry).

    Mix with Daily Show, Colbert Report, Meet The Press, and assorted sprinklings of random CNN/MSNBC coverage. Bake for 30 minutes at 400 degrees. Goes well with fish.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    NPR does a pretty good job.

    Well, except for News and Notes on some occassions. They had this (white) super intendent from some Texas school come in and talk about this young black girl that had been expelled from school and tried for attacking a teacher, and the girl may or may not have had an extensive history of disobedience prior to this event.

    After he said his piece, Farai tore into him like he personally had done something abhorrent. As if her baseless attacks hadn't been enough, the guest they had on after him said, verbatim, "You could hear the red on his neck."

    I prefer Tony Cox when he shows up.

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Personally I have less of a problem with the shows that have an open opinion, than the more subtle forms of bias. Granted O'Reilly's an asshole, but I know where he's coming from. It's worse when stories take things to be self-evident that should be viewed as opinion.

    MentalExercise on
    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    ALocksly wrote: »
    I was just reading an article the other day where a fellow was pointing out many news outlets, in an effort to appear "balanced" will represent all views on a topic equally, even if this does not reflect the real-life status of the topic.

    the example given there was global warming, where the overwhelming majority of scientists consider the matter settled some time ago but a few dissenters have been given equal weight as far as media consideration, in other words making some topics seem more controversial than they actually are by giving a respected platform to a minority opinion.

    Yeah this policy is a real problem.

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    NPR does a pretty good job.

    Well, except for News and Notes on some occassions. They had this (white) super intendent from some Texas school come in and talk about this young black girl that had been expelled from school and tried for attacking a teacher, and the girl may or may not have had an extensive history of disobedience prior to this event.

    After he said his piece, Farai tore into him like he personally had done something abhorrent. As if her baseless attacks hadn't been enough, the guest they had on after him said, verbatim, "You could hear the red on his neck."

    I prefer Tony Cox when he shows up.

    I actually find NPR almost always has a bias to it, but it's my favored news outlet apart from BBC World. Ironically I find normal BBC to be kind of terrible. Come to think of it CNN is better in Europe. Maybe I just need to always get my news from outside its country of origin.

    MentalExercise on
    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    NPR does a pretty good job.

    Well, except for News and Notes on some occassions. They had this (white) super intendent from some Texas school come in and talk about this young black girl that had been expelled from school and tried for attacking a teacher, and the girl may or may not have had an extensive history of disobedience prior to this event.

    After he said his piece, Farai tore into him like he personally had done something abhorrent. As if her baseless attacks hadn't been enough, the guest they had on after him said, verbatim, "You could hear the red on his neck."

    I prefer Tony Cox when he shows up.

    I actually find NPR almost always has a bias to it, but it's my favored news outlet apart from BBC World. Ironically I find normal BBC to be kind of terrible. Come to think of it CNN is better in Europe. Maybe I just need to always get my news from outside its country of origin.

    What parts of it are you listening to? I flick on the hourly news updates at work, and am almost always driving home on the hour. I find that to be pretty plain reporting.

    On the other hand, they can tend to be conservative, especially with some of the commentaries on Marketplace. I had no idea that fiscal policy could be such an enthralling topic when I started listening years ago, but I'm very seriously concerned about the social security crisis.

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    There is no liberal media, except maybe NPR and PBS. Er, unless Air America is still broadcasting. Didn't they go out of business?

    Being leftward of Fox News does not make you "liberal". It makes you semisane.

    Man, that band sucked.

    Target Practice on
    sig.gif
  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Almost all of it actually. Having two jobs I keep very varied hours. The more plain snippet style reporting is generally pretty good, but still... the problem is those things that are opinion, but seem self-evidently true if there is no one around to point out their disagreement.

    MentalExercise on
    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    NPR does a pretty good job.

    Well, except for News and Notes on some occassions. They had this (white) super intendent from some Texas school come in and talk about this young black girl that had been expelled from school and tried for attacking a teacher, and the girl may or may not have had an extensive history of disobedience prior to this event.

    After he said his piece, Farai tore into him like he personally had done something abhorrent. As if her baseless attacks hadn't been enough, the guest they had on after him said, verbatim, "You could hear the red on his neck."

    I prefer Tony Cox when he shows up.

    I actually find NPR almost always has a bias to it, but it's my favored news outlet apart from BBC World. Ironically I find normal BBC to be kind of terrible. Come to think of it CNN is better in Europe. Maybe I just need to always get my news from outside its country of origin.

    That's EXACTLY why I love Google News. I can usually find stories from several countries on there.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Almost all of it actually. Having two jobs I keep very varied hours. The more plain snippet style reporting is generally pretty good, but still... the problem is those things that are opinion, but seem self-evidently true if there is no one around to point out their disagreement.

    I try to do that in my head. Some parts of me hope that most people that listen to NPR do as well. (Edit: I know it's not as common as I'd hope)

    I have to say though, mad props to the Fresh Air.

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • ALockslyALocksly Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    That's EXACTLY why I love Google News. I can usually find stories from several countries on there.

    Precisely.

    ALocksly on
    Yes,... yes, I agree. It's totally unfair that sober you gets into trouble for things that drunk you did.
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    You can bet than any news program that has to advertise itself as "Fair and Balanced" is most certainly not fair and balanced.

    I also saw Olbermann's attack on Rudy Giuliani about Rudy's indirect "vote for me or DIE" statement, and it was one of the finest examples of brass-balls journalism I've ever seen. We need more of that.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    You know what bugs me with Olbermann? He always ends with "Good Night, and Good Luck"

    I like him, but he's no Edward R Murrow.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    You can bet than any news program that has to advertise itself as "Fair and Balanced" is most certainly not fair and balanced.

    Well, er.

    Since Fox trademarked the phrase "Fair and Balanced", I don't think anyone on any other news medium is going to use it anytime soon.

    Target Practice on
    sig.gif
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I just don't like Olbermann because he spends too much time on shit that doesn't really matter. I mean, I'll hate on Ann Coulter just as much as the next guy, but Jesus Keith, you're on TV, use what you've got!

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    You can bet than any news program that has to advertise itself as "Fair and Balanced" is most certainly not fair and balanced.

    Well, er.

    Since Fox trademarked the phrase "Fair and Balanced", I don't think anyone on any other news medium is going to use it anytime soon.

    I forgot that.

    I have to watch Outfoxed again... but god it makes me so damn angry.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    News is a business in the US. It needs to be a service, something done by business for their customers. It has to be free of worries of profitable or else problems arise.

    But, I highly doubt we'll ever see something like that. I do agree that a scary amount of people are considering talking heads to be legitimate news. That stuff isn't necessarily bad, but the success of Mr. O and his ilk mean that it'll become more commonplace.

    Sterica on
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  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Wait, fox news isn't comedy? Shit.

    EDIT: Intentionally that is

    L|ama on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    L|ama wrote: »
    Wait, fox news isn't comedy? Shit.

    EDIT: Intentionally that is

    Any comedy indistinguishable from reality is insufficiently crude and sarcastic.

    I call this the Andy Kaufman effect.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I can't stand cable news. I find Olbermann almost as obnoxious as O'Reilly. Newspapers, magazines, the internet and NPR pretty much cover me in terms of news consumption.

    I don't find it ironic at all that a vehicle for social/political satire is the most visible force pushing for higher standards. That is what satire at its best generally does.

    Shinto on
  • QuazarQuazar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    American news bugs me sometimes.

    I mean, we ALL KNOW it's a game, especially the nightly newscasts, which is where most people get their TV news. It's all about putting up whatever will get the most people to watch, so that they get the most viewers, so that they can charge the most for advertising during their program. They want us to think the world is going to shit so that we keep watching, just like we have to slow down and look when we see car accidents on the highway. And just when they've got your attention.... they CUT TO COMMERCIAL! WOOO!

    It also bugs me how nobody seems to realize that the yee-haw, pro-America Fox News Channel is run by an old, rich, British guy. Ugh. It's all marketing.

    Quazar on
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  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Anyone check out Al Jazeera?

    I heard that it was once regarded as one of the least biased news outlets. A quick wiki found this list of awards:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    * In March 2003, Al Jazeera was awarded by Index on Censorship for its "courage in circumventing censorship and contributing to the free exchange of information in the Arab world."[63]
    * In April 2004, Webby Awards nominated Al Jazeera as one of the five best news Web sites, along with BBC News, National Geographic, RocketNews and The Smoking Gun. According to Tifanny Schlain, the founder of the Webby Awards, this caused a controversy as [other media organisations] "felt it was a risk-taking site,".[64]
    * In December 1999, Ibn Rushd (Averoes) Fund for Freedom of Thought in Berlin awarded the "Ibn Rushd Award" for media and journalism for the year to Al Jazeera.[65]
    * In 2004, Al Jazeera was voted by brandchannel.com readers as the fifth most influential global brand behind Apple Computer, Google, Ikea and Starbucks.[66]

    Also interesting, was this little tidbit:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    An incorrect but particularly wide-reported criticism is the oft-repeated allegation that Al Jazeera had shown videos of masked terrorists beheading western hostages in Iraq.[23] When this is reported in reputable media, Al Jazeera presses for retractions to be made.[24] This allegation was again repeated on Fox News in the USA on the launch day of Al Jazeera's English service, 15 November 2006.[25]

    I might start looking into it.

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I'd check it out, but unfortunately cable companies are afraid to carry it.

    Shinto on
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I remember a few stories back home of people being afraid to let it into the country. Mostly ignorant alarmists... I think someone actually referred to it as "widely accepted as a front fo Al-Queda".

    Genius.

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I find it amusing that while American Media/Government attacks them for being an Arab propaghanda tool, they are being kicked out of Arab country precisely for failing to be a propaghanda tool.
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    News is a business in the US. It needs to be a service, something done by business for their customers.

    It's run as a customer service now - the public just labour under the misapprehension that they are the customer as opposed to the product. Newspapers sell audiences to advertisers.

    Gorak on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    I can't stand cable news. I find Olbermann almost as obnoxious as O'Reilly.
    He can be overbearing, but I like Olbermann for his writerly command of the language and the breadth of his reading - in the same spiel he might namecheck the Federalist Papers, Chinatown, and Super Mario.

    I wish there were more conservatives I could say that about. Even when I violently disagreed with them I could always respect Buckley or Will for their unapologetic erudition and command of the Western canon, but the trend these days seems to be to cynically affect a sleazy, codeword-laden vernacular and denounce anyone who uses elevated diction as a pointy-headed intellectual/atheist/"media elitist".

    Jacobkosh on
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  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Even "faggot" had a short term in the conservative spin machine. What a classy group of people the cons have become.

    Hoz on
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