We want prenup! We want prenup!

VishNub

So my longtime girlfriend/fiancée (12 years) and I are getting married soon. It seems like generally a good idea to get a prenup, and several people have given me that advice. I’m open to advice on whether that is or isn’t a good idea (we have approximately equal earnings/assets right now.)

But, I’m more interested in suggestions for a cost effective way to get one drafted. I see estimates from $300 to $3000 online, and it’s a bit confusing.

We live in Texas, but the marriage license will be in California.

Blarghy

It will increase the cost, but if you're marrying in California you'll both need independent legal counsel (aka a lawyer for each if you, paid through your own separate funds) on order for any agreement to be valid.

Siska

Consider things like how you tend to split cost of living. For example, if one of you purchases most of the groceries/utilities and the other buy all the furniture, toys and other items, then the grocery shopper might feel shorted if your prenup stipulates that you get to keep whatever you personally buy. Things I personally think are good to add are:
1. You keep assets you owned before the marriage + any inheritance in the future.
2. How any house you purchase, including secondary ones, should be divided. Like can one of you buy the other out? Does anyone get dibs?
3. What if one of you gets disabled and has to cut back on working. Would that affect alimony?
4. What happens if one of you becomes super rich or super poor!

Prenups are good for preparing for the worst, like a will, but be generous and not too territorial.

bowen

yes get an attorney involved at some level

zepherin

It depends on how complex you are getting, and how complex your assets are.

If it’s just a list of each persons shit, and an agreement of everyone keeps what they started with and anything accrued during marriage is split 50/50, you can do that yourselves. If there is a huge disparity in assets (one person has a paid off house and the other has nothing) then it’s lawyer time. Also keep in mind that if one person has a house that is mortgages and the other person contributes to the mortgage they are entitled to half the equity, and very few states will even acknowledge an agreement involving children and child support.

Also if you have a prenup, update that shit after a few years as circumstances drastically change, and the further away from the marriage date the harder they are to enforce.

Also if you are both agreeable you can get a post nuptial agreement. Which is after marriage and is actually much easier to enforce because it removes a coercive element.

And congratulations.

Enc

I'm not passing judgment on getting one, but if your spouse isn't already aware and on board with your plan prenups generally come across as "So, when we inevitably get divorced I don't want your grubby hands on my shit." That's neither the real point nor the protection of the prenup, but prepare for a very uphill battle unless this came up organically and agreeably from both of you.

zepherin

Enc wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment on getting one, but if your spouse isn't already aware and on board with your plan prenups generally come across as "So, when we inevitably get divorced I don't want your grubby hands on my shit." That's neither the real point nor the protection of the prenup, but prepare for a very uphill battle unless this came up organically and agreeably from both of you.

Also what you are protecting is important in this conversation. If it’s keeping a business together, that’s a way easier conversation. Because it lowers risk ratings for the business which allows easier access to investment capital. Nobody wants their investment tied up in family court or split up by a judge.

VishNub

Enc wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment on getting one, but if your spouse isn't already aware and on board with your plan prenups generally come across as "So, when we inevitably get divorced I don't want your grubby hands on my shit." That's neither the real point nor the protection of the prenup, but prepare for a very uphill battle unless this came up organically and agreeably from both of you.

Oh, no it’s definitely mutual. We’ve talked about this several times and everyone is on board.

We both have completely independent careers, and fairly simple assets (for now.) Inheritance may complicate matters later, but for now neither of us has much to protect honestly.

Mortious

We got one. Ours was simple, just a 50/50 split of assets if we get divorced. Not even an exception for assets before we got married. Whole thing took less than an hour.

Tox

VishNub wrote: »

Enc wrote: »

VishNub wrote: »

So my longtime girlfriend/fiancée (12 years) and I are getting married soon. It seems like generally a good idea to get a prenup, and several people have given me that advice. I’m open to advice on whether that is or isn’t a good idea (we have approximately equal earnings/assets right now.)

But, I’m more interested in suggestions for a cost effective way to get one drafted. I see estimates from $300 to $3000 online, and it’s a bit confusing.

We live in Texas, but the marriage license will be in California.

I'm not passing judgment on getting one, but if your spouse isn't already aware and on board with your plan prenups generally come across as "So, when we inevitably get divorced I don't want your grubby hands on my shit." That's neither the real point nor the protection of the prenup, but prepare for a very uphill battle unless this came up organically and agreeably from both of you.

Oh, no it’s definitely mutual. We’ve talked about this several times and everyone is on board.

We both have completely independent careers, and fairly simple assets (for now.) Inheritance may complicate matters later, but for now neither of us has much to protect honestly.

Then the question follows that what is it about a prenup that you both think is a good idea?

I would argue that the only thing that truly "generally is a good idea" to get when you get married is a marriage license. Other than that, you don't have to do anything that doesn't add value.

So, what value or significance would a prenup add for you both?

My wife and I did not get one. We looked at it as this - we were both broke when we met and started dating, we were both broke and making about as much as each other when we got married 10 years later, so there wasn't really anything to protect, so there was no real value for us in getting a prenup, so we didn't.

furbat

Getting a prenup is like wearing your seat belt. You won't need it, but if you do...

Divorce is messy and our legal system is fucked. It just makes sense to forfeit the ability to destroy each other's lives in divorce court ahead of time.

In all seriousness, I got one because I had a significant amount of pre-marital assets. If the cost of a prenup is not an issue, I say go get one. I think we did an even not equitable 50/50 split. Pre-marital assets are untouched. There is also a 5 year limit on alimony.

Jam Warrior

Mortious wrote: »

We got one. Ours was simple, just a 50/50 split of assets if we get divorced. Not even an exception for assets before we got married. Whole thing took less than an hour.

Not being facetious, and asking from an of outside point of view (UK) as I assume we're talking America here, but if that's the extent of the prenup then what is the point? Isn't 50/50 split the default position for when a prenup doesn't exist?

Tox

Jam Warrior wrote: »

Mortious wrote: »

We got one. Ours was simple, just a 50/50 split of assets if we get divorced. Not even an exception for assets before we got married. Whole thing took less than an hour.

Not being facetious, and asking from an of outside point of view (UK) as I assume we're talking America here, but if that's the extent of the prenup then what is the point? Isn't 50/50 split the default position for when a prenup doesn't exist?

It is ... Unless someone makes a good case why it shouldn't be. Which is usually done by basically dragging your soon-to-be ex through the mud. A prenup would presumably, hopefully prevent either party from trying that. And since divorce court is usually both financially and emotionally expensive, there's an argument to be made

Smrtnik

I know two different acquaintances that basically shredded their assets in the course of trying to make sure their ex got nothing. It gets so dumb sometimes.

furbat

Jam Warrior wrote: »

Mortious wrote: »

We got one. Ours was simple, just a 50/50 split of assets if we get divorced. Not even an exception for assets before we got married. Whole thing took less than an hour.

Not being facetious, and asking from an of outside point of view (UK) as I assume we're talking America here, but if that's the extent of the prenup then what is the point? Isn't 50/50 split the default position for when a prenup doesn't exist?

In short no.

Imagine if divorce court was intentionally designed by the bad place to give each party the power completely destroy the other out of spite. It's only slightly less bad than that.

Not sure how much good a prenup really does.

Also, as a caveat my understanding of divorce law is limited to anecdotal stories and newspaper articles from states outside my own. So that pretty much makes me an internet expert. I've never been divorced or in divorce court but I imagine it's much like having your soul extracted from your body by a dementor. And my mistrust of divorce court led me to get a prenup. I've been married now for 10 years.

Mortious

Jam Warrior wrote: »

Mortious wrote: »

We got one. Ours was simple, just a 50/50 split of assets if we get divorced. Not even an exception for assets before we got married. Whole thing took less than an hour.

Not being facetious, and asking from an of outside point of view (UK) as I assume we're talking America here, but if that's the extent of the prenup then what is the point? Isn't 50/50 split the default position for when a prenup doesn't exist?

Nope, or at least how it was explained to us. You have the ability to split assets based on what you've earned during the marriage.

Apparently this is an issue that a lot of housewives have run into.

Our prenup makes 50/50 the default regardless of current assest/earnings or who's name something is under. It also had some specific clauses on shared assets that can't be split like houses but I forget the details.

Basically we treated it like a thought exercise of how we would like a divorce to go down when we are both rational, instead of trying to navigate something complies while we are emotional.

We also we to pre-marriage counselling, and continue to go to couple's counselling every few months.

Edit: we also got our will done at the same time iirc.

LostNinja

Tox wrote: »

VishNub wrote: »

Enc wrote: »

VishNub wrote: »

So my longtime girlfriend/fiancée (12 years) and I are getting married soon. It seems like generally a good idea to get a prenup, and several people have given me that advice. I’m open to advice on whether that is or isn’t a good idea (we have approximately equal earnings/assets right now.)

But, I’m more interested in suggestions for a cost effective way to get one drafted. I see estimates from $300 to $3000 online, and it’s a bit confusing.

We live in Texas, but the marriage license will be in California.

I'm not passing judgment on getting one, but if your spouse isn't already aware and on board with your plan prenups generally come across as "So, when we inevitably get divorced I don't want your grubby hands on my shit." That's neither the real point nor the protection of the prenup, but prepare for a very uphill battle unless this came up organically and agreeably from both of you.

Oh, no it’s definitely mutual. We’ve talked about this several times and everyone is on board.

We both have completely independent careers, and fairly simple assets (for now.) Inheritance may complicate matters later, but for now neither of us has much to protect honestly.

Then the question follows that what is it about a prenup that you both think is a good idea?

I would argue that the only thing that truly "generally is a good idea" to get when you get married is a marriage license. Other than that, you don't have to do anything that doesn't add value.

So, what value or significance would a prenup add for you both?

My wife and I did not get one. We looked at it as this - we were both broke when we met and started dating, we were both broke and making about as much as each other when we got married 10 years later, so there wasn't really anything to protect, so there was no real value for us in getting a prenup, so we didn't.

Hard disagree. I think if it as a way to protect what is yours, particularly if you make a choice in the marriage to keep finances separate.

Personal anecdote from my ongoing divorce that didn’t have one.

Just today my soon to be ex threatened to take half of my retirement fund as a way to get out of repaying me for the insurance I’ve had to pay on her car since the separation (because she’s refused to get my name off of the title).

Conversely I could have (but didn’t!) made a claim on half the value of her car despite never having made a payment on it aside from helping on the down payment.

Basically, the lack of one has made what could have at least been civil decidedly not and one could have saved a lot of headache.

VishNub

I think that's my main concern. Less about actual financial security/fairness, more about just simplifying things in the unlikely, hopefully never, event that we don't make it as a couple.

I guess ... how would I make this happen? Just call a lawyer?

Mortious

VishNub wrote: »

I think that's my main concern. Less about actual financial security/fairness, more about just simplifying things in the unlikely, hopefully never, event that we don't make it as a couple.

I guess ... how would I make this happen? Just call a lawyer?

Yup, find a local family law firm and book an appointment. They'll probably want some details beforehand, then it's just time from both of you while the lawyer goes through the contracts while asking and answering questions.

Tox

VishNub wrote: »

I think that's my main concern. Less about actual financial security/fairness, more about just simplifying things in the unlikely, hopefully never, event that we don't make it as a couple.

I guess ... how would I make this happen? Just call a lawyer?

I would start with LegalZoom. They are explicitly a low-cost, online, legal resource.

They actually talk about prenups here: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/prenups-what-they-can-and-cannot-protect

And they have a prenup site here: https://info.legalzoom.com/diy-prenuptial-20822.html and a specific one for California here : https://info.legalzoom.com/diy-prenup-california-20992.html

I would start there, just to gather further information. Then, yeah, talk to a lawyer. You may need to get your prenup specifically in Cali, or at least make an effort to make sure it's legal in Cali.

Biggest recommendation is do a LOT of research before actually cutting a check and signing signatures. Measure twice, cut once, etc, et al

zepherin

Tox wrote: »

VishNub wrote: »

I think that's my main concern. Less about actual financial security/fairness, more about just simplifying things in the unlikely, hopefully never, event that we don't make it as a couple.

I guess ... how would I make this happen? Just call a lawyer?

I would start with LegalZoom. They are explicitly a low-cost, online, legal resource.

They actually talk about prenups here: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/prenups-what-they-can-and-cannot-protect

And they have a prenup site here: https://info.legalzoom.com/diy-prenuptial-20822.html and a specific one for California here : https://info.legalzoom.com/diy-prenup-california-20992.html

I would start there, just to gather further information. Then, yeah, talk to a lawyer. You may need to get your prenup specifically in Cali, or at least make an effort to make sure it's legal in Cali.

Biggest recommendation is do a LOT of research before actually cutting a check and signing signatures. Measure twice, cut once, etc, et al

They are going to want one that is geared towards Texas if they plan on living there. California is just the state that they are married in, but Texas would be the one they would get divorced in. Although the person who serves the other with the divorce paperwork can choose venue. In all cases they'll want to update it as things change with post nuptial agreements.

Tef

You said you have a simple list of assets. I urge you to think long and hard about what value a prenup will add.

Prenups are useful when things like trusts, businesses, or complicated asset holdings are involved.

The reality is, if your separation is acrimonious and your partner wants to screw you over, they can still force you to waste time, money and energy defending the agreement if they wanted to.