Updates on [Coronavirus] Thread

ElkiElki get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
edited March 17 in Debate and/or Discourse
Given the volume of discussion around this topic, we're gonna be doing things a bit differently until further notice. Instead of one thread, we'll be using two and a half threads.
  • An updates and information thread. News about response efforts, updates on the spread of the virus, new resources to keep track of news, political developments directly related to the virus, etc. No rumors, no twitter randos, do your best to make sure it's verified information before posting to this thread.
  • A general coronavirus discussion thread. How things are happening in your town, how you're doing, how your family is doing, and other things you don't think go into the updates thread this goes in the general thread.
  • The existing chat thread. There are lots of 'fun' or interesting things, posts tangentially related to the disease, cool videos, twitter posts, etc, that aren't news, or really something to discuss. Feel free to post them in the existing chat thread, because it's there for you, even if you don't usually post there. They're not all bad people. It's there, you might as well use it.

This should help us have some readable threads, given the current volume of posts.

I'll be using my move posts powers occasionally, to keep things where they belong, so don't be surprised if that happens.

Edit: Burrack made a thread for lockdown resources, so you might want to look at that as well.

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 17
    WHAT:
    BBZZrPr.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

    The virus is officially designated SARS-CoV-2, formerly temporarily called and the disease it causes COVID-19. Since these are clunky names introduced after the outbreak was already widespread, the names haven't stuck all that well in common parlance. The virus is alternately called "novel coronavirus," "Wuhan coronavirus" (especially in Taiwan), and often just "the coronavirus" (also some racist things I will not mention). I personally have been calling it SARS2 but no one else has, so I'm not going to be picky about names here (unless you're going to be racist about it). We should know what we're talking about.

    Coronaviruses are a class of viruses that affect mammals and birds, usually causing respiratory tract infections but occasionally also infecting the digestive tract. Four strains already circulate worldwide causing 15-30% of all common colds. Two other strains, SARS and MERS, were small outbreaks of novel coronaviruses with very high death rates but without being as contagious so they could be eliminated. This newest virus seems to be closely related to SARS, though not as deadly, but far more contagious.

    Symptoms of COVID-19 include fever, coughing, fatigue, and others that typically resemble to be cold or flu. The incubation period (the time between infection and the onset of symptoms) typically ranges from a day to a couple weeks. People become contagious before symptoms appear, and some people never develop symptoms. In 15-20% of symptomatic cases, however, the disease can progress from what appears to be a cold into pneumonia which can be fatal. Death rates are highest among the elderly (over 14% of those age 80 and above) and apparently nonexistent to children under 10.

    Tips for protecting yourself against this coronavirus are listed below.



    WHERE: Basically everywhere, even if not officially yet.
    The pandemic started in Wuhan (population over 11 million), capital of Hubei province in China. Many of the earliest cases were linked specifically to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, which despite its name was also known for selling bushmeat (wild exotic animals, usually unregulated). From Wuhan it spread rapidly through China, aided by the travel of Chinese New Year, and then via air travel around the world.

    If your country claims not to have it, it's probably because they aren't testing enough for it.


    WHEN: Through now, starting likely in November as the first case was retroactively noticed on the 1st of December, 2019. It might not ever end if this strain becomes the fifth worldwide circulating coronavirus strain, which it is on its way of doing.


    WHO: World Health Organization, currently headed by Tedros Adhanom. They are in charge of declaring a pandemic.

    The outbreak was first noticed by a group of doctors in Wuhan, who noted the disease's resemblance to SARS. A group of 8 or 10 were together in a WeChat private group discussing their findings, worried that this deadly new coronavirus might be the return of SARS. They were threatened by local police and officials who sought to suppress negative news, and this coverup cost the world valuable time that likely lead to the virus reaching a point where it could not be contained.
    The face of these whistleblower doctors became Dr. Li Wenliang, a 33 year old ophthalmologist.

    Li_Wen_Liang.jpg

    Dr. Li still continued to treat patients despite the admonishment and coverup, attempting to warn others before the official warnings finally came out, but soon after contracted COVID-19 and died. It is widely rumored that medical aid was withheld to ensure his death and silence him.


    WHY: This coronavirus, like its cousin SARS before it, appears to be a zoonotic virus, which jumped over from an animal resevoir to start infecting humans. Most human diseases started this way, jumping over from an animal host to us, from us being in close contact with animals due to domestication or habitat loss for those animals forcing them in closer contact with us.

    Specifically, both SARS and SARS2 seem to be derived from bat coronaviruses. Bats, because they fly, have a higher core body temperature than other mammals. Viruses therefore must be tougher in order to survive in bats, since fever is a reaction to help fight off diseases and effectively to any non-bat-infecting disease, bats are always in a fever state. Therefore, diseases that get transferred from bats tend to be nastier than other zoonotic diseases. Other examples for instance include the hemorrhagic fevers Nipah and Ebola.


    HOW to protect myself:
    #1: Hygiene - Wash your hands frequently using proper technique (see below), don't touch your face, cough and sneeze into your sleeve (elbows work), and wear a mask if available when you are sick to prevent further spread.

    Proper handwashing technique:


    edca8c37521ae27ad3f12130bff44cf5389dcc75de6431b5fa2d90db4d8eb026.jpg

    Why is this long process necessary?

    ESHNN9KWoAYpwQi?format=jpg&name=900x900


    #2: Social distancing - stay away from crowds, work from home if at all possible, stay home when sick, maintain distance between yourself and others (especially those showing coughing and sneezing)
    #3: If you haven't already, get a flu shot and make sure your other immunizations are up to date. It won't help directly with preventing this coronavirus, but comorbidities (including co-infections) make it much nastier. You don't want this virus AND the flu at the same time.
    #4: Get enough sleep and stay hydrated. Sleep deprivation makes symptoms worse and causes diseases to be harder in most other cases, and I doubt SARS2 is any different. Being dehydrated can exasperate symptoms, and having any sort of cold or flu means water leaving the body faster (through coughed droplets, phlegm, runny noses and the like), so make sure there's enough to start with and keep replacing it. You'll recover better and faster, no matter what the illness.
    #5: Have politicians who are being dumbasses (spreading conspiracy theories and false information, suggesting idiotic measures, firing your country's pandemic response team, etc.) and have an upcoming election? Vote the bums out.

    Finally, don't eat bats, y'all. I don't care if it's a bit too late for this one. Living bats have important roles in their ecosystems, eating insects, pollinating flowers, and spreading fruit seeds. Dead bats are all sorts of full of diseases as mentioned earlier. You know what would make this pandemic worse? Also getting a novel hemorrhagic fever outbreak at the same time. Just leave the little winged fuzzballs alone.


    Also:

    DO NOT consider this OP to be all-inclusive and all the information you need. Check the links below and keep up with the news for updates, the latest findings, and warnings.


    Useful links (with thanks again from @boogedyboo):


    General Info

    US CDC on nCov 2019
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html

    WHO on nCOV 2019
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019

    European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control
    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/novel-coronavirus-china

    Live updates from Netherlands-based news aggregator BNO News:
    https://twitter.com/BNODesk

    Good video summary from the Guardian


    Wikipedia pages, updated frequently:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_coronavirus_outbreak

    Links to separate pages by country and territory:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_coronavirus_outbreak_by_country_and_territory


    Situation Reports

    WHO Daily Sit-reps
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports/

    US CDC Case count
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html


    Visualization

    Updated mapping visualization by John Hopkins University
    https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
    [Up to date, usually marking by country but also state and Chinese province]

    Live updates, number tracking (no map)
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Real Time Tracking of cases in China (in Chinese)
    http://3g.dxy.cn/newh5/view/pneumonia

    BNO News Timeline and tracker:
    https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/
    [Note: the map marks individual cities but this has been falling behind as cases accelerate.]


    Academic

    Completed sequence of viral genome
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN908947

    TWiV 584: Year of the coronavirus - Discussion panel of virologists about the outbreak.
    http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-584/

    Twitter thread keeping track of academic papers both published and preprint (biorxiv.org) on the virus.
    Maintained by Dr Cevik of University of St Andrews


    --

    Credit to Mayabird.

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  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    I thought it might be interesting to note that the reason the WHO stats for the US don't update on Sunday and Monday is because the CDC publishes data at noon EST on Monday through Friday but the WHO publishes at 10:00am CET/ 5:00am EST so they only have data Tuesday through Saturday.

    The CDC also closes their data at 4pm the previous day so new stats are a trailing indicator of the current situation.

    It's not some US conspiracy to protect the stock market (which clearly would not have been working).

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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    I did notice that the USA is adjusting data throughout the day, while most countries do 1 daily update (NL is ~14h CET, Italy is 18h CET).

    This website https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ I have found very comprehensive. They source every update they get too.

    The main thing is that it's starting to flare up in the non-Western World now. Iraq is up to 10 deaths, and Iraq has almost no functional healthcare system.

    In general any nation that has a high death/case load is missing a ton of infection strings. Iraqs 10/133, Omans 12/24, Philippenes 12/187 for instance.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    I thought it might be interesting to note that the reason the WHO stats for the US don't update on Sunday and Monday is because the CDC publishes data at noon EST on Monday through Friday but the WHO publishes at 10:00am CET/ 5:00am EST so they only have data Tuesday through Saturday.

    The CDC also closes their data at 4pm the previous day so new stats are a trailing indicator of the current situation.

    It's not some US conspiracy to protect the stock market (which clearly would not have been working).

    This means that WHO data on the US is always at least 36 hours behind, more on weekends.

    But basically every piece of collected data will always be some amount of time behind because that's how statistics and time work so this is normal

    Like actually normal not sarcastic normal

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  • MarekMarek Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    I thought it might be interesting to note that the reason the WHO stats for the US don't update on Sunday and Monday is because the CDC publishes data at noon EST on Monday through Friday but the WHO publishes at 10:00am CET/ 5:00am EST so they only have data Tuesday through Saturday.

    The CDC also closes their data at 4pm the previous day so new stats are a trailing indicator of the current situation.

    It's not some US conspiracy to protect the stock market (which clearly would not have been working).

    Thank you for that clarification.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    There is currently some uncertainty in the medical community about whether or not it’s safe to take NSAIDs like ibuprofen while affected by the Coronavirus. The French health minister has advised against using NSAIDs, and some studies have indicated that NSAIDs may lead to worse outcomes, but to this point there is nothing definite.

    That said, it may be worthwhile using Tylenol instead, until this is better sorted out, just to be safe. Talk to your doctor.

    Wash your hands like you've been cutting habaneros and need to put in your contacts.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I always forgot that Tylenol (Acetaminophen) isn't an anti-inflammatory. Though now I'm wondering when the panic buying on that starts.

  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    Also don't take a lot of Tylenol.

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  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    Microsoft have made a map/tracker, too:

    https://www.bing.com/covid

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    There is currently some uncertainty in the medical community about whether or not it’s safe to take NSAIDs like ibuprofen while affected by the Coronavirus. The French health minister has advised against using NSAIDs, and some studies have indicated that NSAIDs may lead to worse outcomes, but to this point there is nothing definite.

    That said, it may be worthwhile using Tylenol instead, until this is better sorted out, just to be safe. Talk to your doctor.

    This one confuses me because the original read I got on this was that since NSAIDs suppress immune response, that's why it could be bad. But the whole thing about the severe damage that COVID-19 can do is because your body goes into crazy hyper immune response, destroying your own tissues in the process. I would think anti-inflammatory would be preferred knowing that.

    Brovid Hasselsmof
  • FoolOnTheHillFoolOnTheHill PhiladelphiaRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    There is currently some uncertainty in the medical community about whether or not it’s safe to take NSAIDs like ibuprofen while affected by the Coronavirus. The French health minister has advised against using NSAIDs, and some studies have indicated that NSAIDs may lead to worse outcomes, but to this point there is nothing definite.

    That said, it may be worthwhile using Tylenol instead, until this is better sorted out, just to be safe. Talk to your doctor.

    This one confuses me because the original read I got on this was that since NSAIDs suppress immune response, that's why it could be bad. But the whole thing about the severe damage that COVID-19 can do is because your body goes into crazy hyper immune response, destroying your own tissues in the process. I would think anti-inflammatory would be preferred knowing that.

    Are there any countries providing official guidance on what to use and when to manage symptoms until you can get to a doctor? Or at least what not to do?

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    There is currently some uncertainty in the medical community about whether or not it’s safe to take NSAIDs like ibuprofen while affected by the Coronavirus. The French health minister has advised against using NSAIDs, and some studies have indicated that NSAIDs may lead to worse outcomes, but to this point there is nothing definite.

    That said, it may be worthwhile using Tylenol instead, until this is better sorted out, just to be safe. Talk to your doctor.

    This one confuses me because the original read I got on this was that since NSAIDs suppress immune response, that's why it could be bad. But the whole thing about the severe damage that COVID-19 can do is because your body goes into crazy hyper immune response, destroying your own tissues in the process. I would think anti-inflammatory would be preferred knowing that.

    I suspect the answer is that the immune response does slow down COVID-19 while also tearing up your body in the process. By suppressing the inflammatory response you just let COVID reproduce more and you're banking up future damage and suffering for short term relief.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    Chanus wrote: »
    Also don't take a lot of Tylenol.

    Right, current advice is to limit tylenol or acetaminophen containing products to 3000 to 4000 mg per day. This is so you don’t have liver failure and die.Many over the counter flu and cold medicines and prescription pain medicines have significant quantities of acetaminophen and this must be accounted for.

    Acetominophen can be potentially fatal or cause permanent damage in doses as low as 2-3x the maximum safe dose.

    Not saying not to use acetaminophen, just be careful.

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    The "corrections" to the House bill that passed last night when most lawmakers were already gone are kind of fucking shitty.

    Kate Davidson of the Wall Street Journal: Healthcare employers warned lawmakers and admin officials that the original bill could have led to a shortage of vital healthcare workers.

    The new House bill excludes those workers from paid family leave, and lets Labor Dept. exclude them from 2 wks paid sick-leave mandate, too.

    Heather Long of the Washington Post: This is not getting enough attention.

    The House scaled back its paid sick & family leave bill last night. 2 key changes:
    1) paid family leave of up to 12 weeks now only applies to people taking care of kids who aren’t in school
    2) a lot fewer people will get 2 week sick pay

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
    Ladai
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

    Per county testing in NC is in the double and triple digits most places. Numbers are meaningless since testing hasn’t really happened.

    NightDragon
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

    That's accurate as of late yesterday for my county, so that's good. Our first confirmed cases came down just yesterday.

  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html is the CDC map if any reliability is in question from other sources

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Of course any "corrections" deaired by the admin would be shit

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

    This looks right, and is suitably depressing since it's almost certain that there are a lot of cases that haven't been tested. No way is Houston just at 13 cases, but I believe that to be the confirmed number.

  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Also don't take a lot of Tylenol.

    Right, current advice is to limit tylenol or acetaminophen containing products to 3000 to 4000 mg per day. This is so you don’t have liver failure and die.Many over the counter flu and cold medicines and prescription pain medicines have significant quantities of acetaminophen and this must be accounted for.

    Acetominophen can be potentially fatal or cause permanent damage in doses as low as 2-3x the maximum safe dose.

    Not saying not to use acetaminophen, just be careful.

    For dummies like me who aren't great at translating to actual dosages, a typical "extra-strength" Tylenol tablet is 500 mg, which means you should limit to 8 tablets per day. Easiest way to remember is that if you take two tablets every 5 hours or so you should be fine.

    If you're taking cough medicine or something else that contains acetaminophen, check on the bottle how many mg are in a typical dose.

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  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited March 17
    Bobble wrote: »
    Somebody please correct me if this one is known to be squishy but https://infection2020.com/ looks handy for anybody in the US because it's got things broken down by county.

    Seeing how spread out the confirmed cases are all over the country really hits home how fucked we are in terms of containing this. Why we haven't immediately gone into a lock-down mode similar to France and others is just baffling.

    I mean, I do know why. But it's still crazy.

    EDIT - Almost 1000 new cases in the last 24 hours alone. Christ!

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  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    remember that seeing big numbers every day isn't in and of itself indicating the problem getting worse

    there will by definition be increasing numbers every day until the spread peaks, and especially as we are catching up on testing

    like, not to say it's not bad or scary right now, just trying to keep as level a head as possible about news

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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    So it seems that before taking office, the Obama administration tried to prepare Trump for exactly this type of situation.


    BREAKING: A week before Inauguration Day 2017, Trump team participated in a tabletop exercise with outgoing Obama team about preparing for a "major domestic incident"

    One incident discussed was a pandemic. I participated in that exercise.

    There were 3 role-playing scenarios: hurricane, pandemic and cyber incident. Obama team discussed need to anticipate requirements, stay ahead of challenges and provide resources quickly

    The goal was to acquaint Trump officials with how to coordinate around major incidents.
    The pandemic role-playing scenario involved:

    -"Novel influenza" with infections in Asia and Europe
    -Efficient person-to-person transmission
    -Insufficient lab capacities
    -Travel bans
    -Lag time before it comes to U.S.
    -Need for vaccine
    -Ventilator shortages

    Sound familiar?
    In event of a pandemic, Trump team was told:

    -Pandemics can start in other countries and don't respect borders
    -Science must guide decisions
    -Federal/state collaboration is key
    -Consistent messaging needed
    -Social distancing recommended
    -"Days - and even hours - can matter"
    Thirty Trump officials attended the exercise (Cabinet and senior White House staff) https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/16/readout-principal-level-transition-exercise

    But the vast majority of these officials are no longer in government

    When you're dealing with a crisis like #COVID19, stable and experienced leadership matters.
    Bottom line: when Trump says "we were all surprised" by #COVID19, he shouldn't have been.

    The Obama team warned Trump's staff about a possible pandemic. Whether it was lack of preparation or staff turnover, the necessary work wasn’t done to get in front of this.

    Chris Lu was Obama's White House Cabinet Secretary.

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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Who could have possibly foreseeen that rapid staff turnover in a governmental administration might lead to problems?

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Polls show Trump is winning support over this. He may end up fucking up all the way to a “rally around the leader” victory.

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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Polls show Trump is winning support over this. He may end up fucking up all the way to a “rally around the leader” victory.

    I say this with no glee or lightheartedness whatsoever; this has barely begun. People aren't going to be as supportive of his response in a few weeks when there may be thousands of dead.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Avoid hospitals, clinics and medical buildings if it's not an emergency. We are being asked to reuse surgical masks and are running out of supplies including hand sanitizer.

    Hakkekage
  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    Polls show Trump is winning support over this. He may end up fucking up all the way to a “rally around the leader” victory.

    not sure this is a coronavirus update but also polls don't show that. they show he had a little bump last week and is dropping back down

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

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  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Polls show Trump is winning support over this. He may end up fucking up all the way to a “rally around the leader” victory.

    You have GOT to be more clear when you decide to make a post like this. Are you referring to the 47-43 poll people were linking and discussing the other day (yesterday? It feels like a time warp. Whatever). Polls have a lag time, so anything coming out the past few days was sampling last week. Before the rapid visible escalation of this pandemic in the US. Be better than this.

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  • HandkorHandkor Registered User regular
    Poll are up because people aren't dying en mass yet and Trump has finally stated saying that we need to that this seriously. So it looks like things are getting done. Look at those polls again in 2 weeks and we find out how many american are actually infected.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Handkor wrote: »
    Poll are up because people aren't dying en mass yet and Trump has finally stated saying that we need to that this seriously. So it looks like things are getting done. Look at those polls again in 2 weeks and we find out how many american are actually infected.

    With the way testing is going, this is not something we will ever find out. Only how many have died.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Trump looks like a massive idiot for this one. Especially the way they tried to spin it as a liberal conspiracy early on. When you have people in charge clearly not taking things seriously, and then those same officials end up testing positive, it makes them all look like fools. The most crushing effect is on the economy, and this puts a renewed focus on how the billionaire class is controlling us all, down to lack of benefits for home stay, people who work paycheck to paycheck are getting hammered the worst while CEOs fire off by the numbers emails about "renewed sanitation efforts" but remain radio silent on getting paid for forced home stays...

    Sorry a bit rambly but I hate the current climate we're in and it shows how much the lower classes have been forced to ride a razors edge of survivability

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Please read the OP and see if your post belongs in this thread.
    News about response efforts, updates on the spread of the virus, new resources to keep track of news, political developments directly related to the virus, etc. No rumors, no twitter randos, do your best to make sure it's verified information before posting to this thread.

    I don't think polls several miles out from a national election qualify, especially when they're polls someone has just mentioned and provided no source for.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    The President during a pandemic: Failing Michigan Governor must work harder and be much more proactive. We are pushing her to get the job done. I stand with Michigan!

    I was under the impression that Governor Whitmer was doing a good job on Michigans reponse. So she must have just criticized Trump on television.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 17
    This is also not a thread to just shit Trump tweets and some sarcasm.

    Trump tweets are not banned from the thread, but random insults he's flinging for reasons you don't even know aren't helpful or particularly interesting. The chimpanzee is throwing his shit through the bars again. It's frustrating, because a chimpanzee shouldn't be running the country, but there it is.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    Deleted.

    Viskod on
    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    Veagle wrote: »
    So it seems that before taking office, the Obama administration tried to prepare Trump for exactly this type of situation.


    BREAKING: A week before Inauguration Day 2017, Trump team participated in a tabletop exercise with outgoing Obama team about preparing for a "major domestic incident"

    One incident discussed was a pandemic. I participated in that exercise.

    There were 3 role-playing scenarios: hurricane, pandemic and cyber incident. Obama team discussed need to anticipate requirements, stay ahead of challenges and provide resources quickly

    The goal was to acquaint Trump officials with how to coordinate around major incidents.
    The pandemic role-playing scenario involved:

    -"Novel influenza" with infections in Asia and Europe
    -Efficient person-to-person transmission
    -Insufficient lab capacities
    -Travel bans
    -Lag time before it comes to U.S.
    -Need for vaccine
    -Ventilator shortages

    Sound familiar?
    In event of a pandemic, Trump team was told:

    -Pandemics can start in other countries and don't respect borders
    -Science must guide decisions
    -Federal/state collaboration is key
    -Consistent messaging needed
    -Social distancing recommended
    -"Days - and even hours - can matter"
    Thirty Trump officials attended the exercise (Cabinet and senior White House staff) https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/16/readout-principal-level-transition-exercise

    But the vast majority of these officials are no longer in government

    When you're dealing with a crisis like #COVID19, stable and experienced leadership matters.
    Bottom line: when Trump says "we were all surprised" by #COVID19, he shouldn't have been.

    The Obama team warned Trump's staff about a possible pandemic. Whether it was lack of preparation or staff turnover, the necessary work wasn’t done to get in front of this.

    Chris Lu was Obama's White House Cabinet Secretary.

    I pimp this book out pretty often, but The Fifth Risk, by Michael Lewis, is a good read on just how dysfunctional the transition between the administrations was. It focuses on Energy, Agriculture, and Commerce departments but the failure to properly hand off and take the transition seriously was across the entire organization. And yeah, this is a perfect example of why this matters. Yes, the bulk of the team that attended the meeting are gone now. But more imporantly, nobody from the Trump team who attended was likely taking it seriously. And here we are.

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  • DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    https://www.in.gov/coronavirus/

    6 more cases and a second death for Indiana.

    The first death was someone over 60 with respiratory problems already.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Veagle wrote: »
    So it seems that before taking office, the Obama administration tried to prepare Trump for exactly this type of situation.


    BREAKING: A week before Inauguration Day 2017, Trump team participated in a tabletop exercise with outgoing Obama team about preparing for a "major domestic incident"

    One incident discussed was a pandemic. I participated in that exercise.

    There were 3 role-playing scenarios: hurricane, pandemic and cyber incident. Obama team discussed need to anticipate requirements, stay ahead of challenges and provide resources quickly

    The goal was to acquaint Trump officials with how to coordinate around major incidents.
    The pandemic role-playing scenario involved:

    -"Novel influenza" with infections in Asia and Europe
    -Efficient person-to-person transmission
    -Insufficient lab capacities
    -Travel bans
    -Lag time before it comes to U.S.
    -Need for vaccine
    -Ventilator shortages

    Sound familiar?
    In event of a pandemic, Trump team was told:

    -Pandemics can start in other countries and don't respect borders
    -Science must guide decisions
    -Federal/state collaboration is key
    -Consistent messaging needed
    -Social distancing recommended
    -"Days - and even hours - can matter"
    Thirty Trump officials attended the exercise (Cabinet and senior White House staff) https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/16/readout-principal-level-transition-exercise

    But the vast majority of these officials are no longer in government

    When you're dealing with a crisis like #COVID19, stable and experienced leadership matters.
    Bottom line: when Trump says "we were all surprised" by #COVID19, he shouldn't have been.
    The Obama team warned Trump's staff about a possible pandemic. Whether it was lack of preparation or staff turnover, the necessary work wasn’t done to get in front of this.

    Chris Lu was Obama's White House Cabinet Secretary.


    It's ultimately a side effect of believing government does nothing but harm, which is an attitude that is incubated when government is actually operating well.

    Like a schizophrenic on meds thinking everything is now fine, so they're going to stop taking them.

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