Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The difference in how Ghost of Tsushima is being received by Western vs Japanese reviewers and journalists has been pretty interesting, and stark.
How so? (I haven’t been paying attention to the discourse around it at all)
I can't really speak to the integrity of Japanese game journalism, namely which sites are basically just paid advertisements, but the ones that have spoke about things like translation, or general depiction of the period the game takes place, have said that initial judgments of poor quality are largely unfounded.
The stuff that came out last month or so about the Japanese language in the game being mind of a mess, met with a response of 'no, it's actually good' when actual Japanese reviewers were able to comment on it.
It's good to hear that the Japanese translation is good, though the problem with the lip syncing being for the English language track exclusively is still a fumble
It's also good that Japanese reviewers like how the game presents Japan, but that doesn't take away from the game's ahistoricity, its reported Orientalism, or the undercurrents of imperialistic justifications for class stratification
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
To be fair, if I could get my job to pay for me to fly across the planet to just goof off in another country for a while "taking notes," I would do it immediately and as much as possible.
It's good to hear that the Japanese translation is good, though the problem with the lip syncing being for the English language track exclusively is still a fumble
It's also good that Japanese reviewers like how the game presents Japan, but that doesn't take away from the game's ahistoricity, its reported Orientalism, or the undercurrents of imperialistic justifications for class stratification
No, but it does introduce the possibility that things like the games ahistoricity as presented by Western reviewers is perhaps being overblown. Between two perspectives offering judgment; one from people that actually belong to a culture being depicted, and one that isn't, I'm going to defer to the former be default.
But this is also only first-looks by either side, and could very much change once the greater masses are able to offer their own opinions.
Yeah, please don't complain about a video game company being non shitty to its employees for 5 uninterrupted minutes. They can play back those memories happily as crunch enters month 4 or whatever.
I'm a little surprised that games only having lip sync for one language is still a thing. I guess I don't know how widespread it is, but there have been games with automatically generated lip synching for well over a decade.
I'm a little surprised that games only having lip sync for one language is still a thing. I guess I don't know how widespread it is, but there have been games with automatically generated lip synching for well over a decade.
Investing in automatic lip-synching technology would probably be a good idea, because it's very impressive but also tends to falter with higher facial fidelity. Most games seem to simply opt for 'bad' lip-synching that can't really be said to apply to any spoken language. In most recent memory FF7R is noticeably bad in this respect.
Overwatch characters fuckin gliding around in t-poses with their eyeballs rolled back in their heads "bluhhhhhhh" they sputter as they knock into eachother
Maybe I'm misremembering, but it seems like a Japanese language track was a later addition to the game? I recall that only being specifically mentioned during that most recent gameplay video a couple months back.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
yeah you have to build a significant portion of your modeling/ interaction / animation pipeline around auto lipsync in order to be able to harness it, but it seems to solve so many problems that I would think a lot of big studios would standardize around it
It's good to hear that the Japanese translation is good, though the problem with the lip syncing being for the English language track exclusively is still a fumble
It's also good that Japanese reviewers like how the game presents Japan, but that doesn't take away from the game's ahistoricity, its reported Orientalism, or the undercurrents of imperialistic justifications for class stratification
No, but it does introduce the possibility that things like the games ahistoricity as presented by Western reviewers is perhaps being overblown. Between two perspectives offering judgment; one from people that actually belong to a culture being depicted, and one that isn't, I'm going to defer to the former be default.
But this is also only first-looks by either side, and could very much change once the greater masses are able to offer their own opinions.
Members of many East Asian diasporas have expressed concern with the game's lauding of Japanese imperialism and the Orientalist underpinnings of multiple aspects of GoT
It's true that Japanese and Japanese-descended voices should be given space wherever possible, but that doesn't mean that Westerners—particularly white folks—shouldn't hold a project run by white leads to account. When members of a diaspora point out these problems, it's more reason for non-marginalized identities to line up behind them, so when folks of Japanese descent living in societies that aren't predominantly Japanese go "hey this ahistoricity fucking sucks because it's just further exoticising of a real culture that strengthens a bedrock of racist depictions in Western media," I think it's worth zeroing in on
This is just somethign that jumps out at me because "Japanese critics like it, so why are you saying it has racism problems?" is going to be a real argument made by chuds
Members of the diaspora tend to have experienced far more othering and discrimination based on their cultural background, and therefore are usually affected much more by cultural appropriation and... whatever mishmash this is
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
And honestly, I’m not surprised that a game that presents the Japanese as noble warriors defending against evil foreigners invading their shores (Mongols from China in particular) is being received pretty well
Japan has been grappling with that kind of nationalism for a long, long time
The main thing that I think that criticism is about is the feeling of copy pasting quests/enemies/environment to pad out a game. There are certainly games that have more... restraint when it comes to quest design, that have varied environments, that try to avoid "Kill 10x Wolf" quests.
I'm not sure I'd call it modern though, since Ubisoft is racing in the other direction. AC: Odyssey is a 40h game with 80h of busywork and endless repeatable quests on top of that.
But if you look at a God of War, Spiderman, HZD, Witcher3 or RDR2 there is definitely more story, more VO, more assets (All of which are expensive as fuck to make so I can understand why not everyone is doing that).
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Ghost of Tsushima is basically Americans accidentally making Japanese nationalist propaganda so I'm sure it appeals to some crowds over there
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Ghost of Tsushima is basically Americans accidentally making Japanese nationalist propaganda so I'm sure it appeals to some crowds over there
...accidentally?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I mean, they made what they made on purpose
But it'd be like if someone from outside of America without any real understanding of American politics really loved something like Gone with the Wind, and decided they wanted to make a game that was an homage to that. And they probably didn't have any specifically nefarious drive, but then it came out in America and it was obvious to everyone there that it was pro-confederate lost cause stuff, because that's what it was emulating rather than because they had any strong feelings about the subject matter
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Ashcraft lives in Japan and comes across as the stereotypical super-weeb. I think there was a stretch before Kotaku really stepped up their reporting in recent years where his stories would kind of dominate the site.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
Dude's been contributing for the site since practically the beginning, and I'm honestly surprised he's still hustling articles there. It's like he's a grandfathered artifact from an era when someone thought put "otaku" in the name of a gaming site was cool.
Dude's been contributing for the site since practically the beginning, and I'm honestly surprised he's still hustling articles there. It's like he's a grandfathered artifact from an era when someone thought put "otaku" in the name of a gaming site was cool.
yeah Brian Ashcroft isn't like super problematic or anything afaik, but he's put out some real pants-on-head takes in the past and has some serious blind spots when it comes to his supposed area of expertise
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Dude's been contributing for the site since practically the beginning, and I'm honestly surprised he's still hustling articles there. It's like he's a grandfathered artifact from an era when someone thought put "otaku" in the name of a gaming site was cool.
...oh god dammit.
yeah it's a 'fed-ex logo has a arrow in it' kinda thing, just far less clever
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How so? (I haven’t been paying attention to the discourse around it at all)
https://kotaku.com/ghost-of-tsushima-is-being-praised-by-japanese-critics-1844387298
I can't really speak to the integrity of Japanese game journalism, namely which sites are basically just paid advertisements, but the ones that have spoke about things like translation, or general depiction of the period the game takes place, have said that initial judgments of poor quality are largely unfounded.
The stuff that came out last month or so about the Japanese language in the game being mind of a mess, met with a response of 'no, it's actually good' when actual Japanese reviewers were able to comment on it.
It's also good that Japanese reviewers like how the game presents Japan, but that doesn't take away from the game's ahistoricity, its reported Orientalism, or the undercurrents of imperialistic justifications for class stratification
No, but it does introduce the possibility that things like the games ahistoricity as presented by Western reviewers is perhaps being overblown. Between two perspectives offering judgment; one from people that actually belong to a culture being depicted, and one that isn't, I'm going to defer to the former be default.
But this is also only first-looks by either side, and could very much change once the greater masses are able to offer their own opinions.
Investing in automatic lip-synching technology would probably be a good idea, because it's very impressive but also tends to falter with higher facial fidelity. Most games seem to simply opt for 'bad' lip-synching that can't really be said to apply to any spoken language. In most recent memory FF7R is noticeably bad in this respect.
Which reminds me that Overwatch, made with $Blizzard, has zero mouth movement
Members of many East Asian diasporas have expressed concern with the game's lauding of Japanese imperialism and the Orientalist underpinnings of multiple aspects of GoT
It's true that Japanese and Japanese-descended voices should be given space wherever possible, but that doesn't mean that Westerners—particularly white folks—shouldn't hold a project run by white leads to account. When members of a diaspora point out these problems, it's more reason for non-marginalized identities to line up behind them, so when folks of Japanese descent living in societies that aren't predominantly Japanese go "hey this ahistoricity fucking sucks because it's just further exoticising of a real culture that strengthens a bedrock of racist depictions in Western media," I think it's worth zeroing in on
This is just somethign that jumps out at me because "Japanese critics like it, so why are you saying it has racism problems?" is going to be a real argument made by chuds
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Famitsu in particular is known for its scores directly correlating with how often the PR reps treated the reviewers to dinner and drinks
Obviously that’s not to say there can’t be other opinions on Tsushima from Japanese perspectives, but it’s worth keeping that in mind
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Japan has been grappling with that kind of nationalism for a long, long time
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
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I'm not sure I'd call it modern though, since Ubisoft is racing in the other direction. AC: Odyssey is a 40h game with 80h of busywork and endless repeatable quests on top of that.
But if you look at a God of War, Spiderman, HZD, Witcher3 or RDR2 there is definitely more story, more VO, more assets (All of which are expensive as fuck to make so I can understand why not everyone is doing that).
...accidentally?
But it'd be like if someone from outside of America without any real understanding of American politics really loved something like Gone with the Wind, and decided they wanted to make a game that was an homage to that. And they probably didn't have any specifically nefarious drive, but then it came out in America and it was obvious to everyone there that it was pro-confederate lost cause stuff, because that's what it was emulating rather than because they had any strong feelings about the subject matter
does it feel like the first time you held a titty
:winky:
100% knew the author of this piece before I clicked on it
...oh god dammit.
yeah it's a 'fed-ex logo has a arrow in it' kinda thing, just far less clever