Pardon my French [Canadian Politics Thread]

mrondeau

First, having an optional fees for healthcare access is stupid. No rational person would refuse to pay it, if fully informed, and the rest is not capable of making that decision.
Second, the Safe Third Country Agreement is gone.
We no longer have to pretend the USA is a safe place for refugees, although this does not apply to US citizens.
In 6 months, unless Parliament does something, refugees will be able to just show up at a border crossing.
It’s not every day a judge gets to set policy for the government. I hope Trudeau and co will just go “Gee, Mister Trump, we would like to do something, but the fake news are tying our hands!” And then do nothing.

... ok, I would prefer something with more profanities, in both official languages and any other languages with profanities, but you get the idea.

Caedwyr

Gnome-Interruptus wrote: »

I was going to say that there really should never have been a way to opt out of health care.

The province will be paying for it either by footing the bill directly or indirectly with interest when the tax paying citizen goes bankrupt or becomes unproductive due to illness and then any bills that are unpaid are claimed for tax write offs.

May as well pay the bills directly and have better health outcomes.

I was surprised to learn that opting out was even possible when I first read the article. It's not something I'd ever heard of as being possible. I'm glad the province has finally removed the fee. It was mostly nominal, but seemed like something that was totally unneeded when it could just be included as part of the other costs/taxes.

Corvus

FFS.

https://twitter.com/CBCPolitics/status/1286002623250825221?s=20

The Cow King

If liberals and democrats wanna gain any credibility they should stop using politicians who only exists to raise money

Not only is it incredibly obvious rich people use charities to get tax write offs and hide income but it also makes them not want to change legislation cause if their charities problems get fixed by the feds they just put them selves outa some money

It's so blatantly greedy

finnith

I would like to understand what the practices are for similar charitable organizations/NPO's working in Ottawa. I would bet that WE is not the only one with questionable ties to politicians.

Phisti

I would not be surprised if absolutely all of them were waist deep in politicians. Partly why I am not particularly put out by the WE decision, but rather how it became. Politicians need to remove their collective heads from their arses and recuse themselves appropriately.

OmnomnomPancake

fuck so many people should be resigning. this is embarassing.

finnith

Phisti wrote: »

I would not be surprised if absolutely all of them were waist deep in politicians. Partly why I am not particularly put out by the WE decision, but rather how it became. Politicians need to remove their collective heads from their arses and recuse themselves appropriately.

Easy to be a cynic, but I would also bet that like with many things we don't get so lucky that someone actually steps up and reforms the systems that cause these things to happen. More likely it'll be a bunch of apologies and at most some people resigning as in the past.

Nosf

'Scheer says Trudeau, Morneau need to step aside 'for the good of the country''

You worthless, truculent fucking trash. Jesus, I hope someone in Parliament has the good sense to just fucking crack his witless melon. Why is it the CPC have a leadership debacle right now? Oh yeah, because your useless ass was sponging off the party. Similarly, if McKay gets the nod, will Pollivere immediately ask for his resignation going back to the use of that SAR flight to get back from his fucking fishing vacation he never paid or apologized for? Holy shit, politicians are infuriating. It feels like a majority of them need to be lined up and punched in the head regularly because you know they did something.

BouwsT

Nosf wrote: »

'Scheer says Trudeau, Morneau need to step aside 'for the good of the country''

You worthless, truculent fucking trash. Jesus, I hope someone in Parliament has the good sense to just fucking crack his witless melon. Why is it the CPC have a leadership debacle right now? Oh yeah, because your useless ass was sponging off the party. Similarly, if McKay gets the nod, will Pollivere immediately ask for his resignation going back to the use of that SAR flight to get back from his fucking fishing vacation he never paid or apologized for? Holy shit, politicians are infuriating. It feels like a majority of them need to be lined up and punched in the head regularly because you know they did something.

#ByeScheer is currently trending in Canada, so that's nice.

Zibblsnrt

This morning my province declared a mask mandate for all indoor public spaces, and this afternoon clarified that there would not only be no consequences for failing to comply but that the province was not going to enforce the mandate at all.

Thaaaaaanks, Steve. Real leadership there. Every now and then I remember why you're the most hated premier in a Canada in which Ford and Kenney exist...

Nosf

Everytime I see someone say they're mandating masks, they always seem to mumble out something about it being unenforceable. That said, the cops did tase or pepper spray some fucking doofus who wouldn't wear a mask in Tim's a few hours from here. I've started to shop pretty much just at a Freshco around the corner, and they have a nice big sign that says wear a mask or GTFO and there's a security guard there all day waving people in and well, yet to see anyone in there without a mask. I swung by a home hardware too to grab some stuff and they had a nice big sign. Of course, the arrows on the floor in the one section run you into a dead end because they're storing some snowblower in an aisle, but hey, thought that counts right? I just had to clamber over the dead bodies of the seniors that went before me, and climb over the snow blower, all good.

No more half empty shelves anymore, which is nice.

Richy

We're mandating masks here in Québec. The government is enforcing it on stores, with stiff penalties if they catch them with unmasked clients. Stores enforce it on customers. So far in my personal experience, it's been going pretty smoothly.

Nosf

I do get confused when I see people alone in cars wearing masks. Like, we're way over 6' apart and these things are fucking annoying but not that annoying when you're in a store or something. Just...pull it down under your chin, it looks stylish. Plus your glasses are getting all fogged over and that shit doesn't work at 60km/h.

Phoenix-D

Nosf wrote: »

I do get confused when I see people alone in cars wearing masks. Like, we're way over 6' apart and these things are fucking annoying but not that annoying when you're in a store or something. Just...pull it down under your chin, it looks stylish. Plus your glasses are getting all fogged over and that shit doesn't work at 60km/h.

You drop it on your chin and you've created a nice scoop for any virus that happens to be on your chin right to your mouth next time you put it on.

Generally speaking you should be washing / sanitizing your hands any time you touch the mask. With that in mind it's easier just to leave it on, and a mask with a nose clip doesn't fog glasses much.

Imperfect

That, or you can place it, outside-side down, on a paper towel or napkin beside you. But yeah, pulling it down onto your neck isn't especially safe.

Richy

Nosf wrote: »

I do get confused when I see people alone in cars wearing masks. Like, we're way over 6' apart and these things are fucking annoying but not that annoying when you're in a store or something. Just...pull it down under your chin, it looks stylish. Plus your glasses are getting all fogged over and that shit doesn't work at 60km/h.

I had two stores to visit, and I had to drive from one to the other. I put my mask on at the first one and left it on the entire time because that's the cleanest thing to do. So I drove between stores with a mask on.

Phisti

Exactly what I do. Mask on when I leave the house on the Friday night shopping trip so I can make sure it's fitted right, wear it for the duration of the excursion (usually 2 stores) and then home, remove it once I am back in the house and can wash immediately.

The Wolfman

Phoenix-D wrote: »

Nosf wrote: »

I do get confused when I see people alone in cars wearing masks. Like, we're way over 6' apart and these things are fucking annoying but not that annoying when you're in a store or something. Just...pull it down under your chin, it looks stylish. Plus your glasses are getting all fogged over and that shit doesn't work at 60km/h.

You drop it on your chin and you've created a nice scoop for any virus that happens to be on your chin right to your mouth next time you put it on.

Generally speaking you should be washing / sanitizing your hands any time you touch the mask. With that in mind it's easier just to leave it on, and a mask with a nose clip doesn't fog glasses much.

I think if you've got virus on your chin, you're pretty screwed either way.

Zibblsnrt

Nosf wrote: »

Everytime I see someone say they're mandating masks, they always seem to mumble out something about it being unenforceable. That said, the cops did tase or pepper spray some fucking doofus who wouldn't wear a mask in Tim's a few hours from here. I've started to shop pretty much just at a Freshco around the corner, and they have a nice big sign that says wear a mask or GTFO and there's a security guard there all day waving people in and well, yet to see anyone in there without a mask. I swung by a home hardware too to grab some stuff and they had a nice big sign. Of course, the arrows on the floor in the one section run you into a dead end because they're storing some snowblower in an aisle, but hey, thought that counts right? I just had to clamber over the dead bodies of the seniors that went before me, and climb over the snow blower, all good.

No more half empty shelves anymore, which is nice.

Yeah, we get the "but how will they enforce it?" morons here too. The difference here is that the official position of the provincial government stated in a press briefing about the mandate is "we won't."

It's not that they're unable to, it's that they're uninterested in doing so at all, and the premier said as much outright the same day the mandate was announced.

(This was a couple days after the province announced a mask mandate on public transit, which they also explicitly said will not be enforced.)

KetBra

https://twitter.com/pancholi_rakhi/status/1288314385723662336?s=20

Rakhi Pancholi is an NDP MLA in Alberta

God the UCP are embarassing

ArcticLancer

I goofed and didn't realized a new thread had started, so spent the morning catching up. I know it's a few pages back now, but still sorry to hear things have been rough, @Shivahn. Your story is still a cool and interesting one (the whole lead up to the relocation and the timing it ended up under), and I do hope it all pans out for you two.

Completely unrelated, can we take a moment to continue acknowledging exactly how shitty cops are?
HRM police arrest a black woman without cause, fail to find one, and ruefully let her go. Downplay the incident and seem to have already lost it in the system (it was probably never reported).

Shivahn

Thanks. It's definitely a story. The last year of my life has been a whirlwind of weird events which surprise me every time I recount them. We're all going to have stories of the modern plague, but traveling cross-country in a Prius with two cats is definitely going to be a rarer one.

Phisti

So Ontario's education 'plan' was announced today that is basically full time school sub grade 4, and a mix 4-12. The funding announcement that goes with it seemed quite specific to not use the word "extra" which suggests that it's all previously announced funding reworked. The biggest gem was the suggestion that 1m distance is now ok after stressing 2m yesterday. I wonder what could have changed their minds? School overcrowding perhaps?

Portables will be in full use despite no running water, 'cohorts' for each class but cross contamination on buses, at homes (kids in different grades) and in halls, so basically the plan is 'this is hard, let's just do what we were doing in February and hope it works'... not impressed.

shryke

Phisti wrote: »

So Ontario's 'plan' was announced today that is basically full time school sub grade 4, and a mix 4-12. The funding announcement that goes with it seemed quite specific to not use the word "extra" which suggests that it's all previously announced funding reworked. The biggest gem was the suggestion that 1m distance is now ok after stressing 2m yesterday. I wonder what could have changed their minds? School overcrowding perhaps? Portables in full use despite no running water, 'cohorts' for each class but cross contamination on buses, at homes and in halls, so basically the plan is 'this is hard, let's just do what we were doing in February and hope it works'... not impressed.

It's got some good qualities. The focus on younger children getting back to school over older children is very good to see for instance. I'm still not sure it's gonna be enough though.

Phyphor

1m distance is just... normal desk spacing

shryke

I'm not sure spacing actually matters that much if you are spending that long in a room with shared air.

Aegis

We just had our number of city cases go from 2 to 10, because one person (under 19 years) traveled and then came back and infected 7 close contacts (all also under 19 years).

So a mini school-reopening, essentially.

Edit: Oh, I hadn't checked reporting for yesterday. Add 10 more cases to that total. Welp.

From 0 cases to 22 cases in a week in a half. Beautiful.

Nosf

Sending kids back to school seems unworkable from a "we're not going to let them catch it." If you send them back, the little petri dishes are gonna spread it all over.

quovadis13

The hope is that cases are at a reasonably low background level where you can stomp out flare ups when they happen and before they get out of hand. Ontario is running like 180,000-200,000 tests a week, and their plan mentioned something about more nurses and tests. If you can reserve like 20,000 a week for school testing (or something, someone else can figure out a proper number), you can probably stay on top of it reasonably well.

You are going to get headlines like “15 students test positive at XXXX school”, but you have to hope they can minimize the impact those events will have. It’s a bit promising that Ontario is slowly opening and you are still seeing a general decrease in cases (albeit with some minor ebbs and flows). There are also a lot of counties that usually report a handful, if any, cases each day. Hopefully with almost all of Ontario in phase 3, the trend sticks. We aren’t going to get rid of Covid doing this, but we can hopefully “live” with it with minimal impact. It’s definitely risky, so hopefully things go okay.

quovadis13

The biggest issue is that you will need to spend a bunch of money to do things in the “best” way. Your initial plan is going to cost a buttload of money and then you are also probably going to have to spend a buttload of money to cover things that come up unexpectedly. And since the person ultimately in charge of setting budgets is Doug Ford, then, well....... Yeah he has been shockingly effective so far, but Doug Ford is gonna have to start Doug Fording things sooner or later.

Gnome-Interruptus

In Manitoba we were down to 4 active cases, then 1 person travelled to Alberta for a family emergency and subsequent funeral.

3 weeks later we are 80 active cases and climbing.

I just dont see how schools are going to be anything other than super spreader events.

Steelhawk

I have a kid starting grade 4, and another starting grade 1. The wife and I are not happy that the so-called plan boils down to "Go to school as usual and hope for the best."

I'm resigned to the realities of "It sucks, but whaddya gonna do?" Seeing as how nobody, especially Dougie, was going to pony up the millions and millions required for smaller class sizes and new teachers. My wife is so pissed however that's she's thinking about pulling them out and home schooling them.

Entriech

We've got a kid starting grade 1. The pretty much universal statement I've seen from folks has been pretty dismissive of the 'plan' the province has put out. We're still waiting for our school board to provide some actual details, but even where we live, where cases in our health area are super low, it's hard for me to toss my kid back into a room of 30 potential contact points.
And she *loves* school and is extremely social, and the thought of having to homeschool her for six months or a year sounds like a nightmare, but there's just so little assurance that anything will actually mitigate the real risk of an outbreak.

Steelhawk

As much as I wish we had a second income, in these bullshit times I'm glad my wife is at home with the kids.

That said, I remember the shitshow that was school from home in the spring and I look very skeptically at my wife at the idea of her home schooling them. Yesterday was not the day to pick that fight though.

Phisti

Mine are starting Grade two and SK. Masks are not going to happen, mine will wear them and not play with them, but they need to snack and then have help putting it back on, not going to happen in school this fall. Despite the lack of anything resembling a plan, my school board's absolute milquetoast response to said plan makes it look like they will do exactly what the province asks of them, ie very little.

The real challenge though is my youngest, at 3 has lost her daycare spot (large municipal daycare dropped from 242 kids (not all at the same time, part time, some days etc. to 46 to meet H&S guidelines, all of which went to essential worker families) to date we have *managed* to work from home because two older sisters helped entertain her. With them in school and her at home, work is out the window.

This fall will be an unmitigated disaster on many fronts.

Aegis

From CBC:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he knew there would be problems with "perception" related to having WE Charity run a $900-million student-volunteer program, but he believed there was no conflict of interest because his family would not benefit.

The prime minister also said he did not seek guidance from the federal ethics commissioner after public servants recommended the WE organization to administer the Canada Student Service Grant — despite the fact that he knew the public and opposition politicians would scrutinize the deal because of his family's ties to WE. That, he said, is why he told the public servants recommending the organization to go back and make absolutely sure they were on solid ground.

"I knew there would be perception issues around this," Trudeau said Friday in Ottawa, speaking to reporters less than 24 hours after making a rare prime ministerial appearance at a House of Commons committee to answer questions about his role in the controversy.

"At the same time, delivering a grant program to students who volunteer across the country has absolutely nothing to do with any work my brother or mother did with WE and that's why there was no conflict of interest."

Somebody, anybody, please sit the goddamn Prime Minister down and explain to him how this is the textbook definition of an appearance of conflict of interest that every single bloody public servant is instructed is just as important as actual conflict of interests. They're both bad!

Disco11

" I knew this would look bad so I did not talk to the ethics commissioner "is not a great look...

Caedwyr

I thought this headline was a good summary of the situation.

Trudeau explains how he missed another chance to avoid trouble. The general gist I got from it all, was that it wasn't necessarily malicious corruption, or self dealing for personal profit. It was just more of a mindset where the rules don't really apply to them.

Shadowen

It took barely one term for the Liberals to get back to the same shit that keeps getting them tossed out even when the alternative is the fucking federal Conservatives, that belief that they are Canada's natural ruling party and anything else is an anomaly that will eventually resolve itself, so they can just do what they like because it's in Canada's best interests.