As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Not to poke the Konky Dong, but maybe increase rent to cover rent guarantee insurance. So that if they don't pay their rent, you can file an insurance claim to get it back...eventually.
I always figured this one was like "ok this is the largest loan payment they've ever had to make, let's see if they can actually do it..."
I like how credit absolutely does not take into account paying rent, ever, in how they calculate it.
"Oh bowen's been paying $1500 a month for several years, well how do I know he can afford a $500 a month mortgage payment???"
Like I'd literally let everything else go versus my mortgage, papa needs that roof over his head.
On the flip side, if rent was included in credit reports, it would make it far easier for landlords to deny housing to poor or minority tenants who may have missed a few payments in the past.
It’s part of why a credit score is usually only one input for any large loan, like a mortgage. A bank will also want to see tax returns and other financial statements.
THEY ALREADY DO THAT
Tax returns for the previous 2 years, a list of all assets, explanations of any deposits for the past 6 months, pay stub, current bank account balance, employment verification, verification of good standing with your rental place for the previous 2 years.
They uh, go for broke.
Fuck that's more onerous than my mortgage application.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
Any sort of tax on having a renter?
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Doing more than one Hand stand push-ups is a dream 😍
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
I really don't mind when a company goes 100% online and asynchronous with support. Text chat agents range from as bad as calling to way better than calling. I never gave a shit about the "human connection" because for my entire life the people who answer the phone every company have been underpaid 3rd party contractors reading from a script. That isn't the human connection I am looking for.
But all that said, it is ludicrous when a company takes all their support online, cuts off phone contact entirely, and then their fucking app or website breaks and there's a time sensitive issue, and you have no way whatsoever to contact them, it's just like what in the fuck.
I wish people could be trusted to not call a phone number unless it's an emergency, and use the online service options, but they cannot. They will just call every time, constantly, for every tiny thing. So the phone number has to go away entirely. And then the tech system hiccups and people are wholly abandoned because they have no recourse whatsoever.
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
Any sort of tax on having a renter?
Could be, I am not very well versed in the laws in BC, and everything rental has been messed up lately because of the new taxes designed to reduce foreign speculation.
I really don't mind when a company goes 100% online and asynchronous with support. Text chat agents range from as bad as calling to way better than calling. I never gave a shit about the "human connection" because for my entire life the people who answer the phone every company have been underpaid 3rd party contractors reading from a script. That isn't the human connection I am looking for.
But all that said, it is ludicrous when a company takes all their support online, cuts off phone contact entirely, and then their fucking app or website breaks and there's a time sensitive issue, and you have no way whatsoever to contact them, it's just like what in the fuck.
I wish people could be trusted to not call a phone number unless it's an emergency, and use the online service options, but they cannot. They will just call every time, constantly, for every tiny thing. So the phone number has to go away entirely. And then the tech system hiccups and people are wholly abandoned because they have no recourse whatsoever.
The solve for this is not having a call-in number.
triage through the text function, and escalate to a callback. Provide no direct dial point of entry, but staff the callback function to be 24/7 based on real volume.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I always figured this one was like "ok this is the largest loan payment they've ever had to make, let's see if they can actually do it..."
I like how credit absolutely does not take into account paying rent, ever, in how they calculate it.
"Oh bowen's been paying $1500 a month for several years, well how do I know he can afford a $500 a month mortgage payment???"
Like I'd literally let everything else go versus my mortgage, papa needs that roof over his head.
On the flip side, if rent was included in credit reports, it would make it far easier for landlords to deny housing to poor or minority tenants who may have missed a few payments in the past.
It’s part of why a credit score is usually only one input for any large loan, like a mortgage. A bank will also want to see tax returns and other financial statements.
THEY ALREADY DO THAT
Tax returns for the previous 2 years, a list of all assets, explanations of any deposits for the past 6 months, pay stub, current bank account balance, employment verification, verification of good standing with your rental place for the previous 2 years.
They uh, go for broke.
Fuck that's more onerous than my mortgage application.
There are two of us, and neither of us have owned a property before, and because we got married about 2 years before hand, it was a whole thing. Our mortgage broker was incredible though, he had everything ready, and responded to any phone call or email within 4 hours. Had our approval to our realtor within an hour of asking. He was just great, we tried to go through our credit union first, and they took 2 weeks to tell us we didn't qualify, and didn't answer any questions, and were total tools about the whole thing.
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Maybe he has a mortgage?
It's kind of something landlords misconstrue though.
Even in DK's post he's trying to lead the conversation a bit that they are suddenly "out" thousands of dollars. It's true, they are at a loss making up a balance sheet on a budget, sure. However, they are putting that same money into equity on a property, so they didn't actually lose anything unless they can't make their monthly budget. So as long as you don't put yourself in the red on this property on purpose hoping for rent to keep you solvent, you're not out any money.
That said, there are plenty of landlords who do that and fuck themselves over.
In several decades, DK's husband will more than make up for any loss they ever had unless they sell when the market collapses again.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
I really don't mind when a company goes 100% online and asynchronous with support. Text chat agents range from as bad as calling to way better than calling. I never gave a shit about the "human connection" because for my entire life the people who answer the phone every company have been underpaid 3rd party contractors reading from a script. That isn't the human connection I am looking for.
But all that said, it is ludicrous when a company takes all their support online, cuts off phone contact entirely, and then their fucking app or website breaks and there's a time sensitive issue, and you have no way whatsoever to contact them, it's just like what in the fuck.
I wish people could be trusted to not call a phone number unless it's an emergency, and use the online service options, but they cannot. They will just call every time, constantly, for every tiny thing. So the phone number has to go away entirely. And then the tech system hiccups and people are wholly abandoned because they have no recourse whatsoever.
Excuse me this is an emergency. My google is broken and I can't find the email for where I'm meeting my grandson for brunch, but it's in half an hour and I am going to be late. No I will not hold, let me speak to your manager.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
I really don't mind when a company goes 100% online and asynchronous with support. Text chat agents range from as bad as calling to way better than calling. I never gave a shit about the "human connection" because for my entire life the people who answer the phone every company have been underpaid 3rd party contractors reading from a script. That isn't the human connection I am looking for.
But all that said, it is ludicrous when a company takes all their support online, cuts off phone contact entirely, and then their fucking app or website breaks and there's a time sensitive issue, and you have no way whatsoever to contact them, it's just like what in the fuck.
I wish people could be trusted to not call a phone number unless it's an emergency, and use the online service options, but they cannot. They will just call every time, constantly, for every tiny thing. So the phone number has to go away entirely. And then the tech system hiccups and people are wholly abandoned because they have no recourse whatsoever.
To be fair, a lot of folks are completely inept at written conversation. I once had a trainee who was so bad at writing that I got frustrated and told him "English doesn't work that way".
He was a pretty standard American English-only white guy.
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Then there are people like me, who will say "no, it's... fine, it's not an emergency, I will hold. I have at least eight minutes before I pass out from blood loss, so we're good."
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
In my husband's case, it's high local taxes (which literally double when renting), utilities, mortgage interest, and a high condo association fee. Maintenance is not much, stuff doesn't break all that often. It works out to about $1000 per year.
If we weren't renting out the unit, we'd sell it and not incur any of those costs.
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Our landlord is A+ maximum Canadian very kind and friendly, went shopping for us when we were quarantined from moving from the US, dropped prices hundreds of dollars just... man, I don't remember why, just because covid sucks I guess, and he has empathy? Which is why the comment about "losing money" got super flagged in my brain as weird, because it feels manipulative, but I don't think he meant it that way and he gets many benefits of the various doubts, so there's just a big ??? on what was meant there.
It's probably that (say) the mortgage is 2500, they're charging 1100 in rent, they get 700 of that after tax, so they've budged their own mortgage payment as 1800, so any less rental income and they're "losing" money to the mortgage
worst case I guess is that their mortgage budgeted amount is literally all they can afford with their work income so if rental income drops they're paying out of savings, or just not paying
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
We started watching a show called Broadchurch and my verdict as of episode 1 is that it rules
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
I assume it's an opportunity cost thing, where they need X amount of rental income to balance the budget.
As a private citizen landlord renting out a single property, it can be kind of nerve wracking to find a tenant who can pay reliably, because you have all this money tied up in the property and one renter who falls on hard times transfers those hard times directly to you.
My husband rents out his old condo a bit below market and makes basically nothing off it, just trying to cover the bills, upkeep it, and give people a nice place to live. It was purchased before we moved in together, not as an investment property, and it was either sell it or rent it out. But renting it out on thin margins means that any issue with payment means we are out thousands of dollars suddenly.
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Maybe he has a mortgage?
It's kind of something landlords misconstrue though.
Even in DK's post he's trying to lead the conversation a bit that they are suddenly "out" thousands of dollars. It's true, they are at a loss making up a balance sheet on a budget, sure. However, they are putting that same money into equity on a property, so they didn't actually lose anything unless they can't make their monthly budget. So as long as you don't put yourself in the red on this property on purpose hoping for rent to keep you solvent, you're not out any money.
That said, there are plenty of landlords who do that and fuck themselves over.
In several decades, DK's husband will more than make up for any loss they ever had unless they sell when the market collapses again.
That's not strictly true though because housing doesn't always outpace inflation and houses have carrying costs that are lost no matter what - upkeep, property taxes and other fees, mortgage interest are all real losses
And they are out money because the alternative is to sell and use the proceeds to invest in something else. An unoccupied house is literally just housing market returns minus carrying costs and that's not going to be very good
I know DK wasn't trying to be a jerk landlord but all the landlords I knew do that same song and dance when they make dumb business decisions. Buy up 10 houses then act shocked when they can't rent them for $2000 a month when the same house costs $400+taxes ($900), and slowly creep down to $1400 a month and are riding that red fucking line because they didn't account for buyer/renter's markets.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
Our landlord has mentioned that if he rents the place we have out too cheaply, they "lose money," but I'm not sure what he means. The "too cheaply" is ~1100, which'd make sense if it was an individual place, but it's a basement apartment, and we do not cost 1100 in utilities, and are zero in taxes. I guess there's upkeep? Is there something I'm missing here?
Maybe he has a mortgage?
Is there a mortgage on the house?
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
There might be! I'm not sure how that makes a difference though - he makes it sound like our presence is costing them money and I don't understand how that's possible excepting utilities and upkeep.
Been back to using kettle bells and dumbbells for stuff. Also getting back into calisthenics so training for handstands, planches, and muscle ups.
It's really fun
Fuck that's more onerous than my mortgage application.
if @arch were in charge
Any sort of tax on having a renter?
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
But all that said, it is ludicrous when a company takes all their support online, cuts off phone contact entirely, and then their fucking app or website breaks and there's a time sensitive issue, and you have no way whatsoever to contact them, it's just like what in the fuck.
I wish people could be trusted to not call a phone number unless it's an emergency, and use the online service options, but they cannot. They will just call every time, constantly, for every tiny thing. So the phone number has to go away entirely. And then the tech system hiccups and people are wholly abandoned because they have no recourse whatsoever.
Could be, I am not very well versed in the laws in BC, and everything rental has been messed up lately because of the new taxes designed to reduce foreign speculation.
Have the very mild symptom of a sore throat and a weird taste in my mouth, plus gums bled when toothbrushes. Probably some sort of gum or mouth thing.
I have a dentist appointment this Friday.
All testing available except walk-ins at an ER takes a week to get results.
Guess I'm going to an ER for a walk-in rapid later today out of an abundance of caution.
Wooooooooo...
The solve for this is not having a call-in number.
triage through the text function, and escalate to a callback. Provide no direct dial point of entry, but staff the callback function to be 24/7 based on real volume.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It's kind of something landlords misconstrue though.
Even in DK's post he's trying to lead the conversation a bit that they are suddenly "out" thousands of dollars. It's true, they are at a loss making up a balance sheet on a budget, sure. However, they are putting that same money into equity on a property, so they didn't actually lose anything unless they can't make their monthly budget. So as long as you don't put yourself in the red on this property on purpose hoping for rent to keep you solvent, you're not out any money.
That said, there are plenty of landlords who do that and fuck themselves over.
In several decades, DK's husband will more than make up for any loss they ever had unless they sell when the market collapses again.
like one handed pushup or
or one hand-stand pushup or
one one-handed hand-stand pushup or
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Excuse me this is an emergency. My google is broken and I can't find the email for where I'm meeting my grandson for brunch, but it's in half an hour and I am going to be late. No I will not hold, let me speak to your manager.
standing one push-up
To be fair, a lot of folks are completely inept at written conversation. I once had a trainee who was so bad at writing that I got frustrated and told him "English doesn't work that way".
He was a pretty standard American English-only white guy.
She also might be one of the few areas where "fix it from the inside" actually can happen?
those are words in some sort of order
In my husband's case, it's high local taxes (which literally double when renting), utilities, mortgage interest, and a high condo association fee. Maintenance is not much, stuff doesn't break all that often. It works out to about $1000 per year.
If we weren't renting out the unit, we'd sell it and not incur any of those costs.
This is real "don't hex the moon" energy.
It's probably that (say) the mortgage is 2500, they're charging 1100 in rent, they get 700 of that after tax, so they've budged their own mortgage payment as 1800, so any less rental income and they're "losing" money to the mortgage
worst case I guess is that their mortgage budgeted amount is literally all they can afford with their work income so if rental income drops they're paying out of savings, or just not paying
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I assume it's an opportunity cost thing, where they need X amount of rental income to balance the budget.
That's not strictly true though because housing doesn't always outpace inflation and houses have carrying costs that are lost no matter what - upkeep, property taxes and other fees, mortgage interest are all real losses
And they are out money because the alternative is to sell and use the proceeds to invest in something else. An unoccupied house is literally just housing market returns minus carrying costs and that's not going to be very good
... a squat?