Again I don't think the issue is "people don't care" the problem is them promising one thing literally up to release, and then backing off without telling anyone. Things like car customization, which lots of people do care about, or the original incarnation of both the Mantis Blades and the Robo-dog, etc. Many many things that were legitimately interesting or looked fun, just gone without much explanation.
With regard to "without telling people", I guess what did you expect, a pre-launch press release listing features that were cut in development and may or may not have been mentioned in marketing materials potentially multiple years prior? I can't imagine any mass consumer industry where it works that way.
Yeah broken promises are perfectly valid to hold against developers, but I don't think any company could or would ever announce them before launch.
Except they do all the time, that's what a day one patch is for. The problem is, their day one patch did little to nothing it would seem. Usually before release they'll atleast list off issues they are aware of on a dev blog, and which ones have already been addressed via patch.
They deliberately hid gameplay until release day, and aside from some comments made in random interviews, no way of knowing that much of what was shown early on would never make it into the final game. If you don't temper people's expectations you get *gestures at clusterfuck release and mass returns*
oblivion had npcs with their own daily routines...?
this is hardly something that is impossible or revolutionary, its just a fucking ballache to implement that needs a lot of backend work and most players completely ignore. i am kind of baffled by how people think this is some bizzare thing to have promised - the reason its not in is that cp2077 has almost no emergent systems of any kind because all the systems had to be fucked into shape at the last minute to get the fucking thing running, and agent-based systems always take a bunch of time to fiddle with
pr is always aspirational; its just that usually theres enough of a connection between the studio development procedure and pr that the process of stuffing the in-development game into a shippable state gets you something that 80% matches rather than sub 50% because you cut dev short by like 2 years
Oblivion and Skyrim having NPCs with their own routines is part of why its cities are sparsely populated and why an endgame battle between armies involves about 9 dudes fighting daedra. It's not a bizarre thing to promise in and of itself but I think a lot of non-technical people assume that modern hardware can handle a city full of npcs like that which leads to overpromising.
Watch Dogs Legion has perhaps the most alive city I've ever seen in a video game, came out a few months ago, and has schedules for every NPC. Thing is, the schedules are cludged together from a bunch of random procedural shit when you profile an NPC, and didn't exist for real before that, and won't be saved unless you look at them. That's FINE! It's okay for the thing to not be a real goddamn artificial intelligence, it just needs to be a convincing illusion!
I can straight up look at someone who hates me in that game, see that they're going to go fuck a painter at midnight, follow them, follow the painter, profile the painter, run over the guy that's stalking her, and now the first person likes me more
This system leads to wholly emergent gameplay where you might have a bead on a sniper you want to join your agency, but you get in a car crash somewhere in the city on the way to buy a selection of hats, and one of the car crash victims is the person you wanted to recruit's niece, making them bitter, mortal enemies of DEDSEC
If goddamned Ubisoft can do it in a SEQUELFRANCHISE_NUMBER, CDPR can, they just didn't have time
CDPR promised something much more ambitious than Watch Dogs Legion, and in many VERY important ways, CP2077 is a better game (for me anyway). I really enjoy good writing and character dialogue, for one. I enjoy lots of guns in my games with fiddly bits and systems I can min-max. CP2077 is better there too, although I'd very much like it if you didn't literally instant kill everything on max difficulty while remotely competently specced out, and it'd be nice if the baddies used augmentations more often.... but on a very basic level, WDL is a complete, fully functional game that delivers on what it sold us where as CP2077 is not.
The talent is certainly present to make it what was promised but it's so obvious everywhere where a system is busted or missing and they just said "fuck it, slap something in quickly, we're shipping it"
WDL sure is a hell of a comparison to use about talking about games that aren't incomplete systems stacked precariously on top of each other, that don't quite actually connect properly. And also that doesn't run like shit.
I'm not down with the internet consensus on WDL, it's just a game I played through end to end without significant numbers of bugs, and with pretty much everything working as advertised, and provided some novel emergent gameplay, and my roommate played it on a console and reported roughly the same thing - it's not a great game, it's not genre defining, it's not game of the year, or any of that
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
The start of the Delemain mission felt really bad. You literally have to go to a very specific car, get in it, the game despawns all the other cars in the area, you have the event happen, and then you get out of the car because you can't drive the car.
I can't remember what the original purpose of going into the car was supposed to be other than the developers hastily throwing together a way for the mission series to start when they couldn't get any less wrong way of starting it implemented.
I'm not down with the internet consensus on WDL, it's just a game I played through end to end without significant numbers of bugs, and with pretty much everything working as advertised, and provided some novel emergent gameplay, and my roommate played it on a console and reported roughly the same thing - it's not a great game, it's not genre defining, it's not game of the year, or any of that
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
I have been playing on a console. Not even a Series. It is fine. "Unplayable" is the internet being its usual self.
It's worth mentioning that unplayable for one player doesn't mean all. I played on a Series X and still ran into several bugs one could consider game breaking, such as hacking completely ceasing to work at all.
15 fps in more intense gunfights as was seen with the base Xbox One is extremely bad and not just the "internet being its usual self."
Even the developers have realized how bad it is given stuff like that one article based on interviews with developers
Going "well, it isn't a problem on my end" to reports of people getting tons of crashes, bugs, etc. is almost always entirely unhelpful in contexts where experiences are going to vary a ton whether that is for games or just software in general
Yeah, but that's not "this should never have been released on consoles because it's completely unplayable".
Your standard of playable is not the same as other people's standards
Unless you think they were claiming that it was literally unplayable as it could not be played
I'm not sure how else you'd read "this should never exist on this platform because it is not playable there". It is. It is completely playable on the platform, and "you can play this on consoles" is not a false statement.
If someone says they have problems with it, sure, okay? Probably did, I'd believe that! But the internet seems to like tossing around this "not usable on this platform" sentiment like it's true, and it's not.
Idk man if you have game breaking bugs that ruin not just entire perks, but entire facets of the game like hacking... Isn't that really bad and one could easily call that unplayable? Yeah, people have gotten Doom running on a toaster but is it truly playable, like enjoyable in that state?
The answer for a lot of people is widely, no! Splitting hairs because your personal acceptance levels of broken ass systems is lower than others doesn't go anywhere.
Yeah, the internet tends to be hyperbolic. In the case of Cyberpunk, they devs did themselves dirtier than the internet ever could have.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
TBH before the 1 week patch I was getting crashes every time I drove or ran somewhere too fast. Which is something I would consider damn near unplayable.
Honestly, I don't consider it "splitting hairs" to attempt to distinguish statements of general fact from statements of personal opinion, but I am remembering that nowadays, that's an utterly lost cause.
But seriously man, "personal acceptance of broken-ass systems"? That's my point, it's not broken for me. I have faced no breakage. My shit works like I expected it to, and is not simply me convincing myself "no no it's fine really".
If it didn't work for you, I'm sorry about that! But like, just like "it works for me" doesn't negate "it is broken for me", "it is broken for me" doesn't beat "it works for me".
I'm not down with the internet consensus on WDL, it's just a game I played through end to end without significant numbers of bugs, and with pretty much everything working as advertised, and provided some novel emergent gameplay, and my roommate played it on a console and reported roughly the same thing - it's not a great game, it's not genre defining, it's not game of the year, or any of that
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
I have been playing on a console. Not even a Series. It is fine. "Unplayable" is the internet being its usual self.
I'm playing both on my 3900/3080 setup. If you look at the pure FPS, i'm getting an average of 40ish with the settings cranked up and quality DLSS. But if you looked at the actual qualitiative gameplay, CP is totally playable well into the 30s, while WDL has some super rough frame pacing, and no matter what I turn down, driving is basically a straight shot to slideshowville. There is something seriously wrong with all of ubisoft's engines and AMD CPUs.
And i've never had a hard crash with CP (a couple soft ones, where I couldn't exit the map though), whereas I had at least half a dozen in WDL, plus a crash after it spent like 5 minutes trying to quit.
Just saying "it worked great for me" while ignoring the mountains of evidence that the game is hella busted (and first hand accounts here) doesn't do anything. I'm really glad you and anyone else had a bug free playthrough of the game. You still experienced a game that was released before it was ready for the vast majority of people. I'm also pretty sure you did experience those issues, but maybe simply didn't notice or chose to not let it bother you.
I work in a retail store and I can tell you first hand, most stores do not accept opened copies of software for return. They all, every one of them, made an exception for Cyberpunk, because it was that unplayable for the majority of console players. I would say the lead platform for sales was probably PS4, based on returns.
In the end, someone saying it's unplayable for them probably isn't exaggerating. They encountered something, be it one or two things or a shitload, big or small, that ruined the experience. And handwaving away all those experiences because you had a great time is pretty lame. That experience is as valid as yours, correct. But if someone asked me personally if they should buy the game on console, I would tell them to wait. Partly because the game is already on sale for $30 (lol) but also because why suffer through maybe having a terrible time when you can simply wait, buy the game for less and in a better state in a year?
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I'm not down with the internet consensus on WDL, it's just a game I played through end to end without significant numbers of bugs, and with pretty much everything working as advertised, and provided some novel emergent gameplay, and my roommate played it on a console and reported roughly the same thing - it's not a great game, it's not genre defining, it's not game of the year, or any of that
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
I have been playing on a console. Not even a Series. It is fine. "Unplayable" is the internet being its usual self.
I'm playing both on my 3900/3080 setup. If you look at the pure FPS, i'm getting an average of 40ish with the settings cranked up and quality DLSS. But if you looked at the actual qualitiative gameplay, CP is totally playable well into the 30s, while WDL has some super rough frame pacing, and no matter what I turn down, driving is basically a straight shot to slideshowville. There is something seriously wrong with all of ubisoft's engines and AMD CPUs.
And i've never had a hard crash with CP (a couple soft ones, where I couldn't exit the map though), whereas I had at least half a dozen in WDL, plus a crash after it spent like 5 minutes trying to quit.
oh thats an interesting question
im on a 3950x / 2070 super and turning on ray tracing gave me disgusting feeling mouse lag even though it was showing 50-60fps - u get anything like this? it was WAY worse than the frame loss from turning it on
This level of shitstorm and video evidence doesn't come from nowhere.
I also had a relatively bug-free experience, and in fact really enjoyed myself. Looking forward to another playthrough in a year or so after patches and mods.
But this just makes me one of the lucky ones. My experience is the outlier.
I'm not down with the internet consensus on WDL, it's just a game I played through end to end without significant numbers of bugs, and with pretty much everything working as advertised, and provided some novel emergent gameplay, and my roommate played it on a console and reported roughly the same thing - it's not a great game, it's not genre defining, it's not game of the year, or any of that
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
I have been playing on a console. Not even a Series. It is fine. "Unplayable" is the internet being its usual self.
I'm playing both on my 3900/3080 setup. If you look at the pure FPS, i'm getting an average of 40ish with the settings cranked up and quality DLSS. But if you looked at the actual qualitiative gameplay, CP is totally playable well into the 30s, while WDL has some super rough frame pacing, and no matter what I turn down, driving is basically a straight shot to slideshowville. There is something seriously wrong with all of ubisoft's engines and AMD CPUs.
And i've never had a hard crash with CP (a couple soft ones, where I couldn't exit the map though), whereas I had at least half a dozen in WDL, plus a crash after it spent like 5 minutes trying to quit.
oh thats an interesting question
im on a 3950x / 2070 super and turning on ray tracing gave me disgusting feeling mouse lag even though it was showing 50-60fps - u get anything like this? it was WAY worse than the frame loss from turning it on
TBH, I never even tried turning off RT, because the visual impact was so bad. It made it look even worse than WD2, since the asset quality was lower
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i been spoiled by too much 240hz fps i cant take the feel of a laggy mouse it drives me to DISTRACTION and probably also DRINK (water) and then need to MICTURATE EXCESSIVELY
So I've beaten the game and really enjoyed my time despite there definitely being genuine issues.
My endings were
Johnny's first which was solid but despite no one close to V dying fairly maudlin. Definitely hurt seeing V and Judy go their separate ways. (Speaking of Judy the phone call from her if you fail... Ouch)
Second ending was Aldercados and they really went all out on that one. Great way to finish, and the fact V and Judy make it out of Night City together makes it the true ending in my book.
Did have an... Interesting bug in the second ending. At one point you receive a Jacket which for some reason made all my other clothes , hair and even modesty shorts disappear. Switching jacket just left V entirely nude. So the entire climax she was running around in nothing but an open jacket. Power move.
This level of shitstorm and video evidence doesn't come from nowhere.
I also had a relatively bug-free experience, and in fact really enjoyed myself. Looking forward to another playthrough in a year or so after patches and mods.
But this just makes me one of the lucky ones. My experience is the outlier.
I don't think it is. Just looking in the forum here, reddit, and other places people talked about the game and not the news around the game... I think the vast majority of people who got this game on PC or a new console played it, liked it or didn't, experienced a few bugs here and there, and moved on to the next game.
These problems live in the smallest of percentages most of the time; there are a couple of things that exacerbate this issue.
1. Base consoles had a rough fucking go of it and the game probably never should have released on them. It descoped what the game could do, and it is going to be a major focus of CDPR's 2021 trying to make it right, which sucks because by the end of 2021 there will be enough PS5, Series X, and PC gamers with rigs good enough that the "base console" release will not have netted them meaningful cash in the long term. This was a classic case of short term profits causing long term harm.
2. Most people only post massively positive or massively negative reviews/comments on the interbutts. Yes, there are more bugs than your average bear, even on PS5, Series X and PC. It's not "unplayable" for the majority of those folks, but it is noticeable by most at some point in a 50+ hour playthrough (random T pose or crash to desktop), and it is downright bad / unplayable for a small %. But, people don't go on the internet to say "I played the game, it was fine" nearly as much as they go on the internet to say "main questline broke" or "lol V's penis escaped his pants" or "best game evar!!!1!" and let's be honest, in its current state, not a lot of people are saying the latter. And its easy to get thousands of negative stories or issues when there are 13 million+ copies in the wild.
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SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
oblivion had npcs with their own daily routines...?
this is hardly something that is impossible or revolutionary, its just a fucking ballache to implement that needs a lot of backend work and most players completely ignore. i am kind of baffled by how people think this is some bizzare thing to have promised - the reason its not in is that cp2077 has almost no emergent systems of any kind because all the systems had to be fucked into shape at the last minute to get the fucking thing running, and agent-based systems always take a bunch of time to fiddle with
pr is always aspirational; its just that usually theres enough of a connection between the studio development procedure and pr that the process of stuffing the in-development game into a shippable state gets you something that 80% matches rather than sub 50% because you cut dev short by like 2 years
Oblivion and Skyrim having NPCs with their own routines is part of why its cities are sparsely populated and why an endgame battle between armies involves about 9 dudes fighting daedra. It's not a bizarre thing to promise in and of itself but I think a lot of non-technical people assume that modern hardware can handle a city full of npcs like that which leads to overpromising.
Also, honestly, except for a few NPC's, the idea of daily routines adds nothing to the game. At all.
You could swap between clothing tendencies, where at night more punkers/gangsters come out, and during the day it's more civilians, and that would be more immersive than Random Dude #52341 Going to Job that you'll never notice.
A lot of Oblivion/Skyrim NPCs have a "routine" consisting of "sleep 9 pm to 7 am, aimlessly wander town from 7 am to 8 pm, get stuck on the geometry of bedroom door from 8 pm to 9 pm." Even in the games that did it best it's sometimes a bit overstated.
It's a staggering amount of effort to build something that only really matters for NPCs hooked up to quests (which in Elder Scrolls is basically all of them of course, at some point the game will probably have you help, rob, or kill everyone).
Mods that add larger populations to cities follow the "GTA" model of generating NPCs and have them do things that look natural as you pass them on your own business, but become a meaningless mess if you single one out and follow them around.
Those mods are super popular and show up on tons of must-have lists, because the trade off of immersive and alive isn't a clear cut decision.
A game that crashes for me 40 times in 40 hours of gameplay is probably at least a little bit broken.
It boggles my mind that some people are having this experience and I'm over here at 120 or so hours played without a single crash, and I even do shit like alt-tab out of the game and go do other stuff for 15-20 minutes sometimes. Like, I can't wrap my head around how it can be that wildly different. PCs be fucky, is what I'm saying.
oblivion had npcs with their own daily routines...?
this is hardly something that is impossible or revolutionary, its just a fucking ballache to implement that needs a lot of backend work and most players completely ignore. i am kind of baffled by how people think this is some bizzare thing to have promised - the reason its not in is that cp2077 has almost no emergent systems of any kind because all the systems had to be fucked into shape at the last minute to get the fucking thing running, and agent-based systems always take a bunch of time to fiddle with
pr is always aspirational; its just that usually theres enough of a connection between the studio development procedure and pr that the process of stuffing the in-development game into a shippable state gets you something that 80% matches rather than sub 50% because you cut dev short by like 2 years
Oblivion and Skyrim having NPCs with their own routines is part of why its cities are sparsely populated and why an endgame battle between armies involves about 9 dudes fighting daedra. It's not a bizarre thing to promise in and of itself but I think a lot of non-technical people assume that modern hardware can handle a city full of npcs like that which leads to overpromising.
Also, honestly, except for a few NPC's, the idea of daily routines adds nothing to the game. At all.
You could swap between clothing tendencies, where at night more punkers/gangsters come out, and during the day it's more civilians, and that would be more immersive than Random Dude #52341 Going to Job that you'll never notice.
A lot of Oblivion/Skyrim NPCs have a "routine" consisting of "sleep 9 pm to 7 am, aimlessly wander town from 7 am to 8 pm, get stuck on the geometry of bedroom door from 8 pm to 9 pm." Even in the games that did it best it's sometimes a bit overstated.
It's a staggering amount of effort to build something that only really matters for NPCs hooked up to quests (which in Elder Scrolls is basically all of them of course, at some point the game will probably have you help, rob, or kill everyone).
Mods that add larger populations to cities follow the "GTA" model of generating NPCs and have them do things that look natural as you pass them on your own business, but become a meaningless mess if you single one out and follow them around.
Those mods are super popular and show up on tons of must-have lists, because the trade off of immersive and alive isn't a clear cut decision.
Yeah, I think it is very debatable what does and doesn't add to open world games like this.
Generally most people want a feeling that the world they're exploring is alive and yes most of that is smoke and mirrors and many people make not notice it and even if you do notice you may not personally care but I don't agree that its pointless.
But I'm reminded one of my larger complaints about Night City was the fact that it lacks non-violent stuff to really do or see. And I remember a defender of the game saying having varied content would make it too "video gamey".
Which I thought was funny cause having a blue quest marker for a murder alley on every other street wasn't gamey as all hell?
A game that crashes for me 40 times in 40 hours of gameplay is probably at least a little bit broken.
It boggles my mind that some people are having this experience and I'm over here at 120 or so hours played without a single crash, and I even do shit like alt-tab out of the game and go do other stuff for 15-20 minutes sometimes. Like, I can't wrap my head around how it can be that wildly different. PCs be fucky, is what I'm saying.
This was on the PS5. I've been tempted to pick it up for the PC but don't want to give them my money twice.
A game that crashes for me 40 times in 40 hours of gameplay is probably at least a little bit broken.
It boggles my mind that some people are having this experience and I'm over here at 120 or so hours played without a single crash, and I even do shit like alt-tab out of the game and go do other stuff for 15-20 minutes sometimes. Like, I can't wrap my head around how it can be that wildly different. PCs be fucky, is what I'm saying.
This was on the PS5. I've been tempted to pick it up for the PC but don't want to give them my money twice.
A game that crashes for me 40 times in 40 hours of gameplay is probably at least a little bit broken.
It boggles my mind that some people are having this experience and I'm over here at 120 or so hours played without a single crash, and I even do shit like alt-tab out of the game and go do other stuff for 15-20 minutes sometimes. Like, I can't wrap my head around how it can be that wildly different. PCs be fucky, is what I'm saying.
This was on the PS5. I've been tempted to pick it up for the PC but don't want to give them my money twice.
Oh, ok. I thought you were on PC for some reason.
Normally I am a PC player but I snagged a PS5 specifically for this game. That'll teach me! :P
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I also haven't really had any major issues with the game. Once I accidentally double jumped through some geometry, and I have one quest that's bugged, but it hasn't been outrageous.
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
I also haven't really had any major issues with the game. Once I accidentally double jumped through some geometry, and I have one quest that's bugged, but it hasn't been outrageous.
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
I mean the games bad enough there's class action lawsuits coming up. Legit ones.
It should have never come out for the PS4 and XB1
Yeah, whatever the actual percentage of people who had problems is or if the majority didn't doesn't matter, because enough did to make freaking Sony issue refunds and delist from the store. This is well above and beyond the state most other games release in.
I also haven't really had any major issues with the game. Once I accidentally double jumped through some geometry, and I have one quest that's bugged, but it hasn't been outrageous.
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
And to continue with the inconsistency, I think I had 1 crash in 90 hours on my PC with a GTX1070.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I also haven't really had any major issues with the game. Once I accidentally double jumped through some geometry, and I have one quest that's bugged, but it hasn't been outrageous.
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
And to continue with the inconsistency, I think I had 1 crash in 90 hours on my PC with a GTX1070.
I mean, it ran but I also saw all the trees in the world regardless of how many buildings were between me and the trees and various similar fun things.
It also runs at reasonably high settings with the 2060. Like the architecture advances make a big difference.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I mean the games bad enough there's class action lawsuits coming up. Legit ones.
It should have never come out for the PS4 and XB1
Yeah, whatever the actual percentage of people who had problems is or if the majority didn't doesn't matter, because enough did to make freaking Sony issue refunds and delist from the store. This is well above and beyond the state most other games release in.
Yeah, myself I had almost zero problems. A corrupted save file and a crash or two before the first patch, after that it was mostly wavy palm trees and t poses. One guy t-posed through the cafeteria walls you and Takemura first meet up at.
But I'm also running higher end hardware.
It's very clear that the most generous way to phrase it is the games performance is inconsistent.
I also haven't really had any major issues with the game. Once I accidentally double jumped through some geometry, and I have one quest that's bugged, but it hasn't been outrageous.
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
And to continue with the inconsistency, I think I had 1 crash in 90 hours on my PC with a GTX1070.
I mean, it ran but I also saw all the trees in the world regardless of how many buildings were between me and the trees and various similar fun things.
It also runs at reasonably high settings with the 2060. Like the architecture advances make a big difference.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kzt1io/if_you_honk_at_npcs_and_then_aim_at_them_they/
Except they do all the time, that's what a day one patch is for. The problem is, their day one patch did little to nothing it would seem. Usually before release they'll atleast list off issues they are aware of on a dev blog, and which ones have already been addressed via patch.
They deliberately hid gameplay until release day, and aside from some comments made in random interviews, no way of knowing that much of what was shown early on would never make it into the final game. If you don't temper people's expectations you get *gestures at clusterfuck release and mass returns*
Watch Dogs Legion has perhaps the most alive city I've ever seen in a video game, came out a few months ago, and has schedules for every NPC. Thing is, the schedules are cludged together from a bunch of random procedural shit when you profile an NPC, and didn't exist for real before that, and won't be saved unless you look at them. That's FINE! It's okay for the thing to not be a real goddamn artificial intelligence, it just needs to be a convincing illusion!
I can straight up look at someone who hates me in that game, see that they're going to go fuck a painter at midnight, follow them, follow the painter, profile the painter, run over the guy that's stalking her, and now the first person likes me more
This system leads to wholly emergent gameplay where you might have a bead on a sniper you want to join your agency, but you get in a car crash somewhere in the city on the way to buy a selection of hats, and one of the car crash victims is the person you wanted to recruit's niece, making them bitter, mortal enemies of DEDSEC
If goddamned Ubisoft can do it in a SEQUELFRANCHISE_NUMBER, CDPR can, they just didn't have time
CDPR promised something much more ambitious than Watch Dogs Legion, and in many VERY important ways, CP2077 is a better game (for me anyway). I really enjoy good writing and character dialogue, for one. I enjoy lots of guns in my games with fiddly bits and systems I can min-max. CP2077 is better there too, although I'd very much like it if you didn't literally instant kill everything on max difficulty while remotely competently specced out, and it'd be nice if the baddies used augmentations more often.... but on a very basic level, WDL is a complete, fully functional game that delivers on what it sold us where as CP2077 is not.
The talent is certainly present to make it what was promised but it's so obvious everywhere where a system is busted or missing and they just said "fuck it, slap something in quickly, we're shipping it"
Now I encountered very few serious bugs in CP2077, even then it feels completely unfinished, and my social circle's reports are that it is literally unplayable on consoles
My expectations were that the Ubisoft game would be buggier and less feature-rich than Cyberpunk, by a lot, and I was wrong, which... a big surprise! It also has better pacing which is weird
I can't remember what the original purpose of going into the car was supposed to be other than the developers hastily throwing together a way for the mission series to start when they couldn't get any less wrong way of starting it implemented.
I have been playing on a console. Not even a Series. It is fine. "Unplayable" is the internet being its usual self.
Even the developers have realized how bad it is given stuff like that one article based on interviews with developers
Going "well, it isn't a problem on my end" to reports of people getting tons of crashes, bugs, etc. is almost always entirely unhelpful in contexts where experiences are going to vary a ton whether that is for games or just software in general
Your standard of playable is not the same as other people's standards
Unless you think they were claiming that it was literally unplayable as it could not be played
I'm not sure how else you'd read "this should never exist on this platform because it is not playable there". It is. It is completely playable on the platform, and "you can play this on consoles" is not a false statement.
If someone says they have problems with it, sure, okay? Probably did, I'd believe that! But the internet seems to like tossing around this "not usable on this platform" sentiment like it's true, and it's not.
The answer for a lot of people is widely, no! Splitting hairs because your personal acceptance levels of broken ass systems is lower than others doesn't go anywhere.
Yeah, the internet tends to be hyperbolic. In the case of Cyberpunk, they devs did themselves dirtier than the internet ever could have.
But seriously man, "personal acceptance of broken-ass systems"? That's my point, it's not broken for me. I have faced no breakage. My shit works like I expected it to, and is not simply me convincing myself "no no it's fine really".
If it didn't work for you, I'm sorry about that! But like, just like "it works for me" doesn't negate "it is broken for me", "it is broken for me" doesn't beat "it works for me".
I'm playing both on my 3900/3080 setup. If you look at the pure FPS, i'm getting an average of 40ish with the settings cranked up and quality DLSS. But if you looked at the actual qualitiative gameplay, CP is totally playable well into the 30s, while WDL has some super rough frame pacing, and no matter what I turn down, driving is basically a straight shot to slideshowville. There is something seriously wrong with all of ubisoft's engines and AMD CPUs.
And i've never had a hard crash with CP (a couple soft ones, where I couldn't exit the map though), whereas I had at least half a dozen in WDL, plus a crash after it spent like 5 minutes trying to quit.
I work in a retail store and I can tell you first hand, most stores do not accept opened copies of software for return. They all, every one of them, made an exception for Cyberpunk, because it was that unplayable for the majority of console players. I would say the lead platform for sales was probably PS4, based on returns.
In the end, someone saying it's unplayable for them probably isn't exaggerating. They encountered something, be it one or two things or a shitload, big or small, that ruined the experience. And handwaving away all those experiences because you had a great time is pretty lame. That experience is as valid as yours, correct. But if someone asked me personally if they should buy the game on console, I would tell them to wait. Partly because the game is already on sale for $30 (lol) but also because why suffer through maybe having a terrible time when you can simply wait, buy the game for less and in a better state in a year?
oh thats an interesting question
im on a 3950x / 2070 super and turning on ray tracing gave me disgusting feeling mouse lag even though it was showing 50-60fps - u get anything like this? it was WAY worse than the frame loss from turning it on
I also had a relatively bug-free experience, and in fact really enjoyed myself. Looking forward to another playthrough in a year or so after patches and mods.
But this just makes me one of the lucky ones. My experience is the outlier.
TBH, I never even tried turning off RT, because the visual impact was so bad. It made it look even worse than WD2, since the asset quality was lower
My endings were
Second ending was Aldercados and they really went all out on that one. Great way to finish, and the fact V and Judy make it out of Night City together makes it the true ending in my book.
Did have an... Interesting bug in the second ending. At one point you receive a Jacket which for some reason made all my other clothes , hair and even modesty shorts disappear. Switching jacket just left V entirely nude. So the entire climax she was running around in nothing but an open jacket. Power move.
I don't think it is. Just looking in the forum here, reddit, and other places people talked about the game and not the news around the game... I think the vast majority of people who got this game on PC or a new console played it, liked it or didn't, experienced a few bugs here and there, and moved on to the next game.
These problems live in the smallest of percentages most of the time; there are a couple of things that exacerbate this issue.
1. Base consoles had a rough fucking go of it and the game probably never should have released on them. It descoped what the game could do, and it is going to be a major focus of CDPR's 2021 trying to make it right, which sucks because by the end of 2021 there will be enough PS5, Series X, and PC gamers with rigs good enough that the "base console" release will not have netted them meaningful cash in the long term. This was a classic case of short term profits causing long term harm.
2. Most people only post massively positive or massively negative reviews/comments on the interbutts. Yes, there are more bugs than your average bear, even on PS5, Series X and PC. It's not "unplayable" for the majority of those folks, but it is noticeable by most at some point in a 50+ hour playthrough (random T pose or crash to desktop), and it is downright bad / unplayable for a small %. But, people don't go on the internet to say "I played the game, it was fine" nearly as much as they go on the internet to say "main questline broke" or "lol V's penis escaped his pants" or "best game evar!!!1!" and let's be honest, in its current state, not a lot of people are saying the latter. And its easy to get thousands of negative stories or issues when there are 13 million+ copies in the wild.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
A lot of Oblivion/Skyrim NPCs have a "routine" consisting of "sleep 9 pm to 7 am, aimlessly wander town from 7 am to 8 pm, get stuck on the geometry of bedroom door from 8 pm to 9 pm." Even in the games that did it best it's sometimes a bit overstated.
It's a staggering amount of effort to build something that only really matters for NPCs hooked up to quests (which in Elder Scrolls is basically all of them of course, at some point the game will probably have you help, rob, or kill everyone).
Mods that add larger populations to cities follow the "GTA" model of generating NPCs and have them do things that look natural as you pass them on your own business, but become a meaningless mess if you single one out and follow them around.
Those mods are super popular and show up on tons of must-have lists, because the trade off of immersive and alive isn't a clear cut decision.
It boggles my mind that some people are having this experience and I'm over here at 120 or so hours played without a single crash, and I even do shit like alt-tab out of the game and go do other stuff for 15-20 minutes sometimes. Like, I can't wrap my head around how it can be that wildly different. PCs be fucky, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, I think it is very debatable what does and doesn't add to open world games like this.
Generally most people want a feeling that the world they're exploring is alive and yes most of that is smoke and mirrors and many people make not notice it and even if you do notice you may not personally care but I don't agree that its pointless.
But I'm reminded one of my larger complaints about Night City was the fact that it lacks non-violent stuff to really do or see. And I remember a defender of the game saying having varied content would make it too "video gamey".
Which I thought was funny cause having a blue quest marker for a murder alley on every other street wasn't gamey as all hell?
This was on the PS5. I've been tempted to pick it up for the PC but don't want to give them my money twice.
Oh, ok. I thought you were on PC for some reason.
Normally I am a PC player but I snagged a PS5 specifically for this game. That'll teach me! :P
It has been totally unplayable on my PC with a 1070 and perfectly fine on my laptop with an RTX 2060 though.
Ah well that settles that then. I have a 1060.
like, I cant use the fancy raytracing at all, but it never goes below 30fps
It should have never come out for the PS4 and XB1
Yeah, whatever the actual percentage of people who had problems is or if the majority didn't doesn't matter, because enough did to make freaking Sony issue refunds and delist from the store. This is well above and beyond the state most other games release in.
And to continue with the inconsistency, I think I had 1 crash in 90 hours on my PC with a GTX1070.
I mean, it ran but I also saw all the trees in the world regardless of how many buildings were between me and the trees and various similar fun things.
It also runs at reasonably high settings with the 2060. Like the architecture advances make a big difference.
Yeah, myself I had almost zero problems. A corrupted save file and a crash or two before the first patch, after that it was mostly wavy palm trees and t poses. One guy t-posed through the cafeteria walls you and Takemura first meet up at.
But I'm also running higher end hardware.
It's very clear that the most generous way to phrase it is the games performance is inconsistent.
There are trees in the game?