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The US Congress

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Its a good start and I like it. But it barely scratches the surface on the amount of work need to fix and update the US Infrastructure. Even so the down payment will dramatically change huge chunks of the US for the better.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    $2.2T. It's a start.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Botp'd
    moniker wrote: »
    In less disgust inducing news, Biden is going to unveil his Infrastructure Week today. Supposedly the preliminary numbers look like this. From WaPo:

    q5zikd7b67nm.png

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/03/30/biden-infrastructure-plan-jobs/

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Can we just bribe manchin with a billion dollars to vote on voting rights? Without passing the VRA, the Democrats cannot win another national election in a red state again

    override367 on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    $2.2T. It's a start.

    Presumably it will also be a Federal Match, so State and Local funds (and maybe P3, although... I really hate those. Bonds are also Public Private Partnerships, you know) mean it should probably be ~20% more than the headline number.

    For me the exciting thing is expanding the idea of infrastructure beyond roads and bridges &c. Water and sewerage need money. So does broadband deployment and the electrical grid. There's no reason not to invest significant federal funds in it other than historically we haven't much.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

    US Manufacturing doesn't really need the bump? It's almost certainly all going to go straight into automation which is cool long term but isn't going to make the world for the US Voter better in the short term.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Gaetz is the guy who thinks he's been able to talk his way out of any problem, when in reality what's happened is that other people have cleaned up his messes because he has use for them (see: his long history of DUIs getting pushed under the radar.)

    He's about to find out that this time, he's stepped into it so deep, those people are going to find it easier to just replace him.

    That was my first thought to. This time Matt, daddy can't buy away the problems. He probably thinks Trump will save him, he'll be in for a real surprise when Trump leaves him hanging.

    Dark_Side on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

    US Manufacturing doesn't really need the bump? It's almost certainly all going to go straight into automation which is cool long term but isn't going to make the world for the US Voter better in the short term.

    It needs a bump if you are trying to compete with Chinese labor but $300B isn't going to get you there either. So what are we buying then? If its automation equipment then a third of that is going to German and Japanese manufacturers.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Competing with china is a regulatory issue not something you fix by injecting the industry with money.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

    I'm sure more details will emerge with the official unveiling. Then even moreso after Congress decides to do whatever they want instead, anyway. I would figure it's less Industrial Policy and more like the investments in speculative industries like ARRA had. Loans to companies like Solyndra and all that to try and jumpstart solar, wind, electric cars, batteries, and whatever. Only probably some other stuff since a lot of those industries have become more mature in the last decade and have better access to capital now.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Man that list gets weirder the longer you look at it.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Man that list gets weirder the longer you look at it.

    The part about blacksmithing material all the way at the bottom? Yeah

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Man that list gets weirder the longer you look at it.

    It's likely going to be a reconciliation bill. That's a limited resource, so anything that could possibly fit in there is going to be on the wish list.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

    US Manufacturing doesn't really need the bump? It's almost certainly all going to go straight into automation which is cool long term but isn't going to make the world for the US Voter better in the short term.

    Biden's branch of liberalism loves manufacturing because they think it's 40 years ago, and a hate-on for voters who get 4 year college degrees

    override367 on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The 2.2T figure is fine, but it's too diversified.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I would say there is a whole lot of low-balling in general there. I'm not a proponent of corporate subsidies but $300B across an entire manufacturing sector sounds like peanuts. What is the government investing in there?

    US Manufacturing doesn't really need the bump? It's almost certainly all going to go straight into automation which is cool long term but isn't going to make the world for the US Voter better in the short term.

    Biden's branch of liberalism loves manufacturing because they think it's 40 years ago, and a hate-on for voters who get 4 year college degrees

    Which shows a wild lack of understanding about the nature of manufacturing today.

    Whippy wrote: »
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Can we just bribe manchin with a billion dollars to vote on voting rights? Without passing the VRA, the Democrats cannot win another national election in a red state again

    AFAIK Manchin wants this thing to be bigger.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    What?

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    I think some of that research and development was aimed at setting our infrastructure to support electric vehicles and like charging stations. Right now the foot print to recharge cars is kinda limited which makes long distance trips in one challenging.

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    It’s research and development. Admittedly, the specific targets of that are going to matter a lot.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    I think some of that research and development was aimed at setting our infrastructure to support electric vehicles and like charging stations. Right now the foot print to recharge cars is kinda limited which makes long distance trips in one challenging.

    The challenge today is less finding a charging station and more that you can’t recharge in 5 minutes like you can fill a tank with gas

    We need roads that charge the cars as they drive over them, like asphalt made of Qi charging pads, yeah!

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    It’s research and development. Admittedly, the specific targets of that are going to matter a lot.

    Also like, road technology can legitimately get pretty cool. I know Styro was just being facetious, but you can do a lot with roads! With how they can self repair, dissipate heat, redistribute rainwater, etc.

    This is totally not my space, so I'm not sure how mature all that is and how much space there may be left for additional research, but don't discount the possibilities! :D

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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    kaid wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    I think some of that research and development was aimed at setting our infrastructure to support electric vehicles and like charging stations. Right now the foot print to recharge cars is kinda limited which makes long distance trips in one challenging.

    The challenge today is less finding a charging station and more that you can’t recharge in 5 minutes like you can fill a tank with gas

    We need roads that charge the cars as they drive over them, like asphalt made of Qi charging pads, yeah!

    I can't find the article but a company is literally making and testing this.

    edit: to clarify, it's a line of pads underneath the asphalt.

    McRhyno on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    if that manufacturing is all subsidies to make solar panels and whatnot at home I'm all for it as long as it's written better than Scott Walker's "we are literally just giving China $3000 from every citizen of Wisconsin even though everyone knows this will result in zero jobs"

    override367 on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Roads are kind of a big deal and kind of a big mess in a thousand ways. There'a a lot if progress to be made.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    McRhyno wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    I think some of that research and development was aimed at setting our infrastructure to support electric vehicles and like charging stations. Right now the foot print to recharge cars is kinda limited which makes long distance trips in one challenging.

    The challenge today is less finding a charging station and more that you can’t recharge in 5 minutes like you can fill a tank with gas

    We need roads that charge the cars as they drive over them, like asphalt made of Qi charging pads, yeah!

    I can't find the article but a company is literally making and testing this.

    edit: to clarify, it's a line of pads underneath the asphalt.

    F-Zero getting closer to reality.

    Anyway, I don't know where to begin with this list. Isn't it also the policy equivalent of a trailer preview? Think I'm gonna wait before I form solid opinions.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • OghulkOghulk Registered User regular
    Missing from that list is $400 billion in clean energy credits too so it's really like a $2.6T bill and apparently another bill focused on healthcare and education to come in April.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Roads are kind of a big deal and kind of a big mess in a thousand ways. There'a a lot if progress to be made.

    I mean everything from electric charging stations to smart signals / traffic control to automated cars and safety features fall under R&D. Not to mention that if you were to say...develop road building techniques or enhanced materials that last even say 5% longer you're saving hundreds of billions nationwide over the life of the roads with how much major infrastructure and rebuilding projects cost.

    But with the way solar prices are dropping and car companies are going all-in on electric transportation there is a huge amount of potential in the next 20-30 years to go to a practically carbon neutral transportation grid.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    It’s research and development. Admittedly, the specific targets of that are going to matter a lot.

    Also like, road technology can legitimately get pretty cool. I know Styro was just being facetious, but you can do a lot with roads! With how they can self repair, dissipate heat, redistribute rainwater, etc.

    This is totally not my space, so I'm not sure how mature all that is and how much space there may be left for additional research, but don't discount the possibilities! :D

    I had a summer internship at the Turner-Fairbanks Highway Research Center in US-DOT for grad school archiving old Bureau of Public Roads maps. They have some really cool shit going on. And cores of interstates from all over the country to test various approaches about how to better deal with freeze-thaw and what not. Their work with NASA and the FAA for runways is why off ramps have grooves in them now, to help promote centering cars taking turns at speed.

    But yeah, no, the proposal is not to give the Highway Research Center $180bn.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Roads are kind of a big deal and kind of a big mess in a thousand ways. There'a a lot if progress to be made.

    Like improving their ability to not get torn apart by the winter/summer temp shifts every year.

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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    McRhyno wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    I think some of that research and development was aimed at setting our infrastructure to support electric vehicles and like charging stations. Right now the foot print to recharge cars is kinda limited which makes long distance trips in one challenging.

    The challenge today is less finding a charging station and more that you can’t recharge in 5 minutes like you can fill a tank with gas

    We need roads that charge the cars as they drive over them, like asphalt made of Qi charging pads, yeah!

    I can't find the article but a company is literally making and testing this.

    edit: to clarify, it's a line of pads underneath the asphalt.

    F-Zero getting closer to reality.

    Anyway, I don't know where to begin with this list. Isn't it also the policy equivalent of a trailer preview? Think I'm gonna wait before I form solid opinions.

    Great, now I've got the SNES theme playing in my head, thanks for that... :P

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Competing with china is a regulatory issue not something you fix by injecting the industry with money.

    It would have to be a two-pronged effort to succeed. Example: If we want Huawei not to be ubiquitous with 5G we can regulate that we buy American at home, but we'll need to make pricing more competitive to succeed internationally.

    Butters on
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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Glad we're spending 180 billion to develop idk new types of roads or something? And this is almost twice what we're spending on our decrepit electrical grid? Weird bill.

    It’s research and development. Admittedly, the specific targets of that are going to matter a lot.

    Also like, road technology can legitimately get pretty cool. I know Styro was just being facetious, but you can do a lot with roads! With how they can self repair, dissipate heat, redistribute rainwater, etc.

    This is totally not my space, so I'm not sure how mature all that is and how much space there may be left for additional research, but don't discount the possibilities! :D

    I had a summer internship at the Turner-Fairbanks Highway Research Center in US-DOT for grad school archiving old Bureau of Public Roads maps. They have some really cool shit going on. And cores of interstates from all over the country to test various approaches about how to better deal with freeze-thaw and what not. Their work with NASA and the FAA for runways is why off ramps have grooves in them now, to help promote centering cars taking turns at speed.

    But yeah, no, the proposal is not to give the Highway Research Center $180bn.

    Driving on a stretch of experimental road is kind of fun, the 'road noise' in the car changes pitch with different surface properties.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I think Styro is looking for more “where we’re going, we don’t need roads” type components and yeah we should definitely lead the way in reducing concrete and creating non-surface-contact transportation

  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Roads are kind of a big deal and kind of a big mess in a thousand ways. There'a a lot if progress to be made.

    Like improving their ability to not get torn apart by the winter/summer temp shifts every year.

    Also the sheer damage that long distance trucking causes. If we could move that to rail and just use trucks for last mile, that would help.

    But that change would be insanely expensive and face a ton of pushback from the industry so good luck.

    DoodmannLord_Asmodeus
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Roads are kind of a big deal and kind of a big mess in a thousand ways. There'a a lot if progress to be made.

    Like improving their ability to not get torn apart by the winter/summer temp shifts every year.

    Also the sheer damage that long distance trucking causes. If we could move that to rail and just use trucks for last mile, that would help.

    But that change would be insanely expensive and face a ton of pushback from the industry so good luck.

    Weirdly it will be easier to argue a transition to rail once trucking becomes automated. And even before that, we're going to have to because we're running out of long haul truckers.

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  • OghulkOghulk Registered User regular
    I think Styro is looking for more “where we’re going, we don’t need roads” type components and yeah we should definitely lead the way in reducing concrete and creating non-surface-contact transportation

    while a good goal, the things we have right now need maintenance/upgrade/replacement for safety reasons more than anything else

    shrykeLord_AsmodeusTofystedethMan in the Mists
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    I think Styro is looking for more “where we’re going, we don’t need roads” type components and yeah we should definitely lead the way in reducing concrete and creating non-surface-contact transportation

    No its more just that like so much for smart roads of the future or whatever just seems odd when like our basic infrastructure across a lot of the country is in such a state of disrepair and under development. Dont get me wrong Im all for developing new technology but if budgets are priorities this one leaves me scratching my head a bit.

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