Also most spacecraft aren't exactly festooned with flat spaces to do that on. Gotta make sure the patient isn't going to toggle anything that shouldn't be or etc while you're hammering them.
"So good news, Houston, is that we got Llewellyn stabilized. The bad news is that it doesn't matter because we're deorbiting."
There's actually a pretty decent amount of surface that could be used. Dragon, Starliner, and Orion have four seats (in their normal setups, Dragon and Starliner have seven seat mounts and Orion has six), which would themselves be ideal, but the control panel is set right up in the face of two of the seats (Dragon's is movable at least). Still, barring the extreme fringe case where two people are having simultaneous heart attacks you've got a chair at least.
The "floor" of all three is mostly storage compartments, with the storage being in semi rigid packs secured against the surface or under hatches (Orion is the only one with storage doors I believe), which themselves provide a yielding surface that can be used for moving around. The walls of Dragon and Starliner are otherwise fairly empty. Orion has two bays for additional equipment, but it leaves about half the walls, floor, and ceiling (unless the docking port hatch is open) free.
Soyuz would be a harder one, since it's pretty cramped. Best bet there would be the toilet in the orbital module. Send the third person into the descent module and there's a fair amount of open room in the orbital module for two people, and the toilet or storage racks both provide usable surface. The orbital module used to carry extra control panels, telescopes, and other payloads, but not anymore now that it's only a station ferry and never an independent ship.
As for the ISS, they like to do videos and photo ops in the really busy places full of equipment like this. Even there you can see the deck side is mostly storage compartments (I don't know what that HANDS OFF sign is taped to, so maybe that deck isn't the best place).
Still, this is more typical of the station. Every surface has a purpose, but most of them aren't active equipment. These are both International Segment modules, too, which are smaller, since they all launched in Shuttles. The Russian modules are bigger and most only use one wall for active equipment.
There's also nine sleeping berths across three Russian and two International modules, all of which would be usable - they're rather claustrophobic but have one open wall opening on the rest of the module, all of which except one of the Russian ones has another berth across from it so there's nothing you could back into, either.
And at any given time there's up to eight assorted space ships docked. For example right now there's two Crew Dragons, a Cygnus, two Progresses, and a Soyuz. Inside a Cygnus would be one of the best places if you were planning your heart attack.
Hevach on
+1
Options
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
They haven't announced it yet but if you look at the 'Where is Webb' page you'll notice that the MIRI has hit 7 Kelvin.
This is Pythom Space. That is not a typo, I've been calling them Python all day and I was the wrong one. They think that rocket will go to Mars within two years. It was founded on the conceit that space is expensive because personnel is expensive, so if your personnel are cheap then space will be cheap!
Even Elon Musk has called them out for unsafe working conditions.
The engine runs on furfuryl alcohol and white fuming nitric acid. It's not quite UDMH/NO4, but it's still fun enough to get a whole chapter in Ignition!, and that cloud they're running away from is all kinds of toxic.
Other notable whatthefucks:
-Hypergolic fuel components transported together in a civilian pickup truck presumably on public roads with no hazardous chemical squares.
-leveraging off those spindly legs (they bent the rocket seriously)
-standing directly under a suspended load
-discarded chemical tank just sitting there next to a rocket engine test
-multiple peoe standing around a hypergolic pressure vessel which was already damaged in moving
-multiple people standing around a lit rocket engine
-hey this smoke smells funny should we be breathing this?
-Statis fire without securing the rocket (I call bullshit on the "micro hop flight" thing, that was not stable movement)
-oh God I think those are Harbor Freight scaffolds and even if they aren't they're not meant for uneven ground or to withstand lateral forces like that.
This video is OSHA Bingo. Its worse than the fake unsafe example scenes in Cintas safety training videos.
Holy shit guys at least rent a machine to pick the thing up instead of risking injury or death with some little pickup truck...in addition to everything else going on in that video.
Pythom has answered the controversy in two ways: they heavily edited the video (but the internet is forever and others reposted the original) to remove the stupidest stuff, and:
However, Pythom apparently did reply to an earlier message from someone in the industry about safety concerns. The company said the aerospace official was being "condescending and misinformed." Moreover, a Pythom Space official wrote, "You completely lack knowledge in our safety procedures but yet run to quick conclusions and judgment."
Yeah, no, sorry, when Elon Musk offers you safety advice you are not doing things right.
But seriously the lack of industrial equipment is an enormous red flag, anyone who has ever been involved in anything larger than a backyard weekend project know you just spend a few thousand dollars to rent a piece of industrial equipment saves you so much time, effort, simplifies all operations and makes things safer. Those people don't know what they're doing.
+11
Options
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
But seriously the lack of industrial equipment is an enormous red flag, anyone who has ever been involved in anything larger than a backyard weekend project know you just spend a few thousand dollars to rent a piece of industrial equipment saves you so much time, effort, simplifies all operations and makes things safer. Those people don't know what they're doing.
No, you see if they spent money on equipment that would show them that people are not the only significant expense in rocketry!
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
One of the founder quotes from the Ars article tells with you certainty the type of person you are dealing with at Pythom, if the name didn't clue you in already:
"We see this as a new world," Tina Sjögren said recently. "When Columbus sailed to America, there were both better boats and sailors. But no one else did it. He did. All it took was three weeks. It was not difficult; it was fear that held everyone back. It was believed that one would fall over the edge of the earth. Or be eaten by sea monsters. He showed... that was wrong."
This seems naïve, of course. Even SpaceX, which from the beginning was well-funded and able to hire excellent early employees, is still years away from sending humans to Mars after its founding in 2002. But the Sjögrens are undaunted. "You have to work hard, but you do not have to be very smart," Tina Sjögren added.
One of the founder quotes from the Ars article tells with you certainty the type of person you are dealing with at Pythom, if the name didn't clue you in already:
"We see this as a new world," Tina Sjögren said recently. "When Columbus sailed to America, there were both better boats and sailors. But no one else did it. He did. All it took was three weeks. It was not difficult; it was fear that held everyone back. It was believed that one would fall over the edge of the earth. Or be eaten by sea monsters. He showed... that was wrong."
This seems naïve, of course. Even SpaceX, which from the beginning was well-funded and able to hire excellent early employees, is still years away from sending humans to Mars after its founding in 2002. But the Sjögrens are undaunted. "You have to work hard, but you do not have to be very smart," Tina Sjögren added.
And if a whole 'nother pair of undiscovered continents hadn't been in his way, Columbus would have run out of food long before he ever reached the other side of Asia.
People forget that part.
And if a whole 'nother pair of undiscovered continents hadn't been in his way, Columbus would have run out of food long before he ever reached the other side of Asia.
People forget that part.
No, the people who know very little about history know that's why no one was stupid enough to try.
Everyone else can't forget it since they never learned it.
+2
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I’m no rocket scientist, but I feel confident in saying that no video involving hypergolic fuels should at any point make me think “hey this reminds me of that video I watched about how to use a gin pole and the main sheet to step and unstep the mast on a Catalina 25 sailboat by yourself!”
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
Well, it's not real in the sense that their rocket is never going to get to orbit, but by all indications they are real in that they actually took an investor's money and did this thing in the desert.
Edit: Apparently one of their engineers (he doesn't have a degree, shockingly) tried to answer questions on Reddit and didn't understand delta V or other basic concepts. They think this rocket will be able to launch 150 kg to LEO because it's about as big as Astra's Rocket 3 and that's what it can do (it uses much better fuel). And it can go to Mars because it's already in orbit and weightless, you don't need much more from there.
That's dumb on a level that actually makes me wonder if this is all some elaborate ARG or reality show pilot.
Hevach on
+11
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Well, it's not real in the sense that their rocket is never going to get to orbit, but by all indications they are real in that they actually took an investor's money and did this thing in the desert.
Yeah that's the bit I'm struggling with.
I feel like they should probably all be in jail.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Realistically most of the people in that video are victims. Somebody is ultimately responsible for creating and enforcing a company's safety culture and they should absolutely be doing an uncomfortable walk through with a couple Federal agencies.
My SYMPATHY for victims of lax safety culture declines sharply when people participate in it without reservation or complaint. So I feel justified in laughing at that guy getting dragged and lifted off his feet holding a safety rope that's far too short (and which he is far too small to provide appropriate anchoring weight to free standing like that) and saying I Told You So when they all get lung cancer in a few years.
I finally took a moment to watch the “static fire test” and uh, again, not a rocket scientist but: should the engine exhaust not look more like “a rocket” (Mach diamonds, clear stream of exhaust for some distance before turbulent flow, etc.) and less like “an elaborate homemade flamethrower”?
Is it possible that there’s some confusion over at Pythom about the difference between a “fire test” and a “fire” “test”?
edit to add: Also the bit where the guy opening the valves for the pressure vessels full of rocket fuel while wearing no PPE at all said to the cameraperson “Watch out now in case somethin’ breaks” got a grim chuckle from me. Why bother ‘watching out’ at this point? What is that extra half-second of awareness that you’re standing inside an exploding automotive trailer going to do for you?
It's not a very powerful rocket. It's basically 1940's era technology. Furfuryl alcohol was a direct competitor to gasoline and ethanol, not any of the fuels used in modern orbital class engines. It's pressure fed and apparently they haven't actually gotten the pressure part of pressure fed working very well - the first hot fire was done straight out of storage tanks and the stand up test may have just been gravity fed according to a couple of the Rocket Paparazzi guys who said they didn't appear to have a helium tank) which is why it sounds like a huge fart. They appear to have done nothing to optimize the bell outlet, likely owing to the fact that they have no idea what the combustion chamber pressure is running at, because equipment is expensive and their budget is apparently "Trip to Harbor Freight and some dude's truck."
Even if it was a good engine with turbine feed and everything, you don't really get mach diamonds on alcohol rockets, the exhaust is too luminous when it comes out, there's a lot of residual burning going on. That's not strictly a sign of a bad rocket, since most solid fuels and kerosene derivatives also spit too much fire to see cool hydrodynamic features in the exhaust.
I assume the only reason these morons haven't been shut down is because they're in no danger of actually entering FAA-controlled airspace.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Y'know, I know of OSHA but not what OSHA actually does. Does someone at the company have to submit a safety complaint? Or could someone just send them a link to one of those videos? And then would they just record the complaint or do they actually have the power to fine the company or something?
Ground tests aren't FAA regulated. OSHA, EPA, FMCA, NHTSA, and US DOT (plus any state equivalents) are all applicable to stuff in the videos and that's probably not all, because there are a lot of redundant regulations (the last three on that list all have rules about markings on vehicles carrying hazardous chemicals).
Y'know, I know of OSHA but not what OSHA actually does. Does someone at the company have to submit a safety complaint? Or could someone just send them a link to one of those videos? And then would they just record the complaint or do they actually have the power to fine the company or something?
A complaint basically triggers the process, but OSHA does random inspections as well, that's how SpaceX got fucked pretty hard some years back. They don't have infinite funding to do that, so a lot of what they actually do is not truly random but following on tips that didn't come through as formal reports (it's likely somebody from NASA passed on a memo about SpaceX's factory), so a company being stupid on YouTube can 100% get an inspector interested.
Companies do have a fair bit of power to stymie an inspection, though. They're allowed to keep them waiting for certain time (everywhere I've worked has had an internal policy of one hour) so they can get a higher level manager in, and it's a free window to run around fixing shit, provided it's fixable. Just not having proper equipment is not.
But they DO have the power to levy fines (potentially quite heavy, Dow Chemical has gotten hit for a hundred million at one time after a worker died) or even force a lot of corrective action. During my retail days my employer was ordered to hire a special safety officer who answered directly to OSHA, and SpaceX had their safety policies and training forcibly rewritten.
Well, it's not real in the sense that their rocket is never going to get to orbit, but by all indications they are real in that they actually took an investor's money and did this thing in the desert.
Edit: Apparently one of their engineers (he doesn't have a degree, shockingly) tried to answer questions on Reddit and didn't understand delta V or other basic concepts. They think this rocket will be able to launch 150 kg to LEO because it's about as big as Astra's Rocket 3 and that's what it can do (it uses much better fuel). And it can go to Mars because it's already in orbit and weightless, you don't need much more from there.
That's dumb on a level that actually makes me wonder if this is all some elaborate ARG or reality show pilot.
Well, if you're willing to lithobrake then yeah being in a geo transfer orbit is about 90% of the way there
Once you're in orbit it's only expensive to get to Mars if you care about being more than a meteoroid when you arrive!
One unexpected result to come from analysis of fireball data is the identification of a possible interstellar bolide — that is, an impactor that originated from outside the solar system. It’s worth noting up front, though, that not everyone’s convinced of the claim.
In 2019 Amir Siraj and Abraham Loeb (both at Harvard University) reported that a half-meter meteor detected on January 8, 2014, was hurtling toward Earth on a hyperbolic orbit, one unbound to the Sun. They based the object’s trajectory on the high impact speed recorded in the Center for Near-Earth Object Studies (CNEOS): 44.8 kilometers per second
However one the studies authors (Loeb) is bit of a crank. The data does seem to check out but it's also from a very limited period and since the object is now in very, very VERY small pieces impossible to confirm.
Siraj is kind of a crank, too, at least in so far as his only research credits are as an undergrad working on Loeb's less hinged ideas. This one is pretty well hinged, though. They're basing the theory on the upper edge of the confidence interval for the meteor's speed, and it's a fairly wide interval, most of the rest of the interval is unremarkable to mildly interesting.
We *do* expect this kind of thing to be happening routinely, though - estimates put the number of interstellar bodies entering the inner solar system almost as high as the number of long period native bodies, we just don't see many of them. There's a huge list of interstellar candidate objects, and I2 Borisov offered a really good argument that Hyakutake was truly interstellar, because they have the same unusual chemistry.
One unexpected result to come from analysis of fireball data is the identification of a possible interstellar bolide — that is, an impactor that originated from outside the solar system. It’s worth noting up front, though, that not everyone’s convinced of the claim.
In 2019 Amir Siraj and Abraham Loeb (both at Harvard University) reported that a half-meter meteor detected on January 8, 2014, was hurtling toward Earth on a hyperbolic orbit, one unbound to the Sun. They based the object’s trajectory on the high impact speed recorded in the Center for Near-Earth Object Studies (CNEOS): 44.8 kilometers per second
However one the studies authors (Loeb) is bit of a crank. The data does seem to check out but it's also from a very limited period and since the object is now in very, very VERY small pieces impossible to confirm.
One unexpected result to come from analysis of fireball data is the identification of a possible interstellar bolide — that is, an impactor that originated from outside the solar system. It’s worth noting up front, though, that not everyone’s convinced of the claim.
In 2019 Amir Siraj and Abraham Loeb (both at Harvard University) reported that a half-meter meteor detected on January 8, 2014, was hurtling toward Earth on a hyperbolic orbit, one unbound to the Sun. They based the object’s trajectory on the high impact speed recorded in the Center for Near-Earth Object Studies (CNEOS): 44.8 kilometers per second
However one the studies authors (Loeb) is bit of a crank. The data does seem to check out but it's also from a very limited period and since the object is now in very, very VERY small pieces impossible to confirm.
...so COVID came from space?
The heat of re-entry would rather thoroughly cook anything moving at those speeds.
Besides know your horror movies, this is a pod-person sign not Contagion sign (either that or Starship Troopers if someone on the other end yells FIRE FOR EFFECT)
Posts
"So good news, Houston, is that we got Llewellyn stabilized. The bad news is that it doesn't matter because we're deorbiting."
The "floor" of all three is mostly storage compartments, with the storage being in semi rigid packs secured against the surface or under hatches (Orion is the only one with storage doors I believe), which themselves provide a yielding surface that can be used for moving around. The walls of Dragon and Starliner are otherwise fairly empty. Orion has two bays for additional equipment, but it leaves about half the walls, floor, and ceiling (unless the docking port hatch is open) free.
Soyuz would be a harder one, since it's pretty cramped. Best bet there would be the toilet in the orbital module. Send the third person into the descent module and there's a fair amount of open room in the orbital module for two people, and the toilet or storage racks both provide usable surface. The orbital module used to carry extra control panels, telescopes, and other payloads, but not anymore now that it's only a station ferry and never an independent ship.
As for the ISS, they like to do videos and photo ops in the really busy places full of equipment like this. Even there you can see the deck side is mostly storage compartments (I don't know what that HANDS OFF sign is taped to, so maybe that deck isn't the best place).
Still, this is more typical of the station. Every surface has a purpose, but most of them aren't active equipment. These are both International Segment modules, too, which are smaller, since they all launched in Shuttles. The Russian modules are bigger and most only use one wall for active equipment.
There's also nine sleeping berths across three Russian and two International modules, all of which would be usable - they're rather claustrophobic but have one open wall opening on the rest of the module, all of which except one of the Russian ones has another berth across from it so there's nothing you could back into, either.
And at any given time there's up to eight assorted space ships docked. For example right now there's two Crew Dragons, a Cygnus, two Progresses, and a Soyuz. Inside a Cygnus would be one of the best places if you were planning your heart attack.
This is Pythom Space. That is not a typo, I've been calling them Python all day and I was the wrong one. They think that rocket will go to Mars within two years. It was founded on the conceit that space is expensive because personnel is expensive, so if your personnel are cheap then space will be cheap!
Even Elon Musk has called them out for unsafe working conditions.
The engine runs on furfuryl alcohol and white fuming nitric acid. It's not quite UDMH/NO4, but it's still fun enough to get a whole chapter in Ignition!, and that cloud they're running away from is all kinds of toxic.
Other notable whatthefucks:
-Hypergolic fuel components transported together in a civilian pickup truck presumably on public roads with no hazardous chemical squares.
-leveraging off those spindly legs (they bent the rocket seriously)
-standing directly under a suspended load
-discarded chemical tank just sitting there next to a rocket engine test
-multiple peoe standing around a hypergolic pressure vessel which was already damaged in moving
-multiple people standing around a lit rocket engine
-hey this smoke smells funny should we be breathing this?
-Statis fire without securing the rocket (I call bullshit on the "micro hop flight" thing, that was not stable movement)
-oh God I think those are Harbor Freight scaffolds and even if they aren't they're not meant for uneven ground or to withstand lateral forces like that.
This video is OSHA Bingo. Its worse than the fake unsafe example scenes in Cintas safety training videos.
What are the odds that video is going to be evidence in someone's trial?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Idiots who just almost poisoned themselves or people attending a numetal festival? You decide!
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/pythom-space-tests-its-rocket-with-questionable-safety-practices
Yeah, no, sorry, when Elon Musk offers you safety advice you are not doing things right.
No, you see if they spent money on equipment that would show them that people are not the only significant expense in rocketry!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
lmao
EverythingHurtsandImDying.gif
They put a brake on the wheels, what more do you need?
People forget that part.
No, the people who know very little about history know that's why no one was stupid enough to try.
Everyone else can't forget it since they never learned it.
Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
Hey you take that back!
The Jackass people usually at least include some safety measures and they're not actively suicidal.
Which considering Pythom, I'm not sure about.
Edit: Apparently one of their engineers (he doesn't have a degree, shockingly) tried to answer questions on Reddit and didn't understand delta V or other basic concepts. They think this rocket will be able to launch 150 kg to LEO because it's about as big as Astra's Rocket 3 and that's what it can do (it uses much better fuel). And it can go to Mars because it's already in orbit and weightless, you don't need much more from there.
That's dumb on a level that actually makes me wonder if this is all some elaborate ARG or reality show pilot.
Yeah that's the bit I'm struggling with.
I feel like they should probably all be in jail.
My SYMPATHY for victims of lax safety culture declines sharply when people participate in it without reservation or complaint. So I feel justified in laughing at that guy getting dragged and lifted off his feet holding a safety rope that's far too short (and which he is far too small to provide appropriate anchoring weight to free standing like that) and saying I Told You So when they all get lung cancer in a few years.
Is it possible that there’s some confusion over at Pythom about the difference between a “fire test” and a “fire” “test”?
edit to add: Also the bit where the guy opening the valves for the pressure vessels full of rocket fuel while wearing no PPE at all said to the cameraperson “Watch out now in case somethin’ breaks” got a grim chuckle from me. Why bother ‘watching out’ at this point? What is that extra half-second of awareness that you’re standing inside an exploding automotive trailer going to do for you?
Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
Even if it was a good engine with turbine feed and everything, you don't really get mach diamonds on alcohol rockets, the exhaust is too luminous when it comes out, there's a lot of residual burning going on. That's not strictly a sign of a bad rocket, since most solid fuels and kerosene derivatives also spit too much fire to see cool hydrodynamic features in the exhaust.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
A complaint basically triggers the process, but OSHA does random inspections as well, that's how SpaceX got fucked pretty hard some years back. They don't have infinite funding to do that, so a lot of what they actually do is not truly random but following on tips that didn't come through as formal reports (it's likely somebody from NASA passed on a memo about SpaceX's factory), so a company being stupid on YouTube can 100% get an inspector interested.
Companies do have a fair bit of power to stymie an inspection, though. They're allowed to keep them waiting for certain time (everywhere I've worked has had an internal policy of one hour) so they can get a higher level manager in, and it's a free window to run around fixing shit, provided it's fixable. Just not having proper equipment is not.
But they DO have the power to levy fines (potentially quite heavy, Dow Chemical has gotten hit for a hundred million at one time after a worker died) or even force a lot of corrective action. During my retail days my employer was ordered to hire a special safety officer who answered directly to OSHA, and SpaceX had their safety policies and training forcibly rewritten.
Well, if you're willing to lithobrake then yeah being in a geo transfer orbit is about 90% of the way there
Once you're in orbit it's only expensive to get to Mars if you care about being more than a meteoroid when you arrive!
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-space-force-releases-data-on-bright-fireballs/
However one the studies authors (Loeb) is bit of a crank. The data does seem to check out but it's also from a very limited period and since the object is now in very, very VERY small pieces impossible to confirm.
We *do* expect this kind of thing to be happening routinely, though - estimates put the number of interstellar bodies entering the inner solar system almost as high as the number of long period native bodies, we just don't see many of them. There's a huge list of interstellar candidate objects, and I2 Borisov offered a really good argument that Hyakutake was truly interstellar, because they have the same unusual chemistry.
...so COVID came from space?
The heat of re-entry would rather thoroughly cook anything moving at those speeds.
Besides know your horror movies, this is a pod-person sign not Contagion sign