The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
The thinking of COVID
Thrawns
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Thrawns was warned for this.
Hey everyone!I asked this in a other PAX forum; but, Zerzuhl douched out and directed me to ask this here. So, here it is. This came from the fact PAX West just announced they would require proof of COVID vaccination or a negative COVID test to attend PAX; and, I swear, these are honest questions. I'm not understanding.
Can someone please explain how someone who's vaccinated is afraid of someone who isn't vaccinated?
How does someone who's vaccinated feel more safe about someone else being vaccinated than actually being vaccinated themselves?
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Honestly I'm surprised PAX is back on already.
Question 1: More and more Data is coming out showing that vaccinated folks can get potentially get sick from the Delta Variant, and become spreaders. So even if the illness is asymptomatic or very mild, a vaccinated person might still spread the disease to other people who might not be, or cannot be vaccinated currently.
Question 2: If I, a vaccinated person, do become a spreader and don't realize it, I'd rather be around other vaccinated people because I don't want to get unvaccinated folks sick.
Also, I won't lie, if someone who CAN be vaccinated and is currently not, I'm going to assume they are going to be engaging in riskier behaviors that will spread this disease. Like going to a Convention without any protection.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Don't do this crap unless you want your stay here to be very short.
I have elderly relatives in their 70s. For the last year, I've done every precaution I can to avoid getting covid - not for myself, but for them. Because if they died because I slipped up and goitns omething that was avoidable, I would not have been able to live with myself.
Thankfully, I am now vaccinated. But I am still wearing my mask.
See, I have a friend who is also vaccinated. But he has a 2 year old son who cannot be. And the same rule applies - if I get him sick, and he gets his son sick, then.. well.. again, couldn't live with myself. To make matters work, said friend works retail in an environment where people have challenged him on the store's masking policies, to the point where some have sneezed in his face.
The bottom line is to mitigate risk.. for those who cannot. And that's why I fear people who aren't vaccinated (when they could be) - because they are too selfish and self-centered to be afraid of hurting others.
And, don't get me wrong. I have a huge reason to be concerned about COVID in general since my wife has a compromised immune system from having a kidney transplant.
Honestly, the way things are going, the state will likely be locked down again before PAX can even start.
Hope they're prepared to adjust their refund policy...
Please watch your language. This was pretty aggressive.
I guess I just don't know what proof of being vaccinated accomplishes for PAX.
You really need to update your understanding of vaccines. Vaccines are not YES it protects or NO it doesn't. Even the best vaccine doesn't 100% block OG COVID. On the delta side, the AZ vaccine, which does the worst, still blocks Delta infection ~60% of the time. So there is still value in having been vaccinated, and in restricting an event to vaccinated people only.
Requiring vaccination and testing reduces the risk. Safest option would be to not have PAX. Next is vaccinated only. Next is vax + testing. Next is no requirements. This is what PAX gets. Even if everyone had the worst vaccine and ALL COVID at the con was Delta, requiring everyone to be vaccinated reduces the impact by ~60%. That's huge!
Let me flip this around on you. For me, it's not about being afraid of unvaxxed people. I'm not scared of them - this isn't about me being the weak person, the quivering little baby person.
Nah dogg, fuck that noise. I'm not scared of voluntarily unvaxxed people. I'm fucking pissed off at them. I don't want them around me, don't want them to participate in public things, don't want them allowed in places where I'm going to be... not because I'm afraid, but because I'm fucking tired of these selfish blubbering geese and their precious fucking feelings about doing the goddamned bare minimum to operate as an American and a member of my communities. No pathetic whining anti-vaxxer gets to try and flex that toxic masculinity bullshit at me.
I want them to fuck off. Get the fuck out of my spaces. I want us all to come together, just like we did before to try and save the country in the face of abject stupidity, and summarily eject all these people from everything everywhere until they wake the fuck up, stop mainlining blatant idiocy and rightwing fucking nonsense, and rejoin society. Until then we treat them not like they're dangerous but like they've got shit on their shoes.
I'm not afraid of them, I'm just done.
Pretty much spot on.
Let's say you have a graduation party and invite some classmates and friends. Do you invite the guy you were on the group project with who never even showed up or put in an ounce of effort? Fuck no.
That's precisely who these people are.
It reduces the likelihood that people show up to the con infected and then spread it to everyone else. It reduces the probability that people at the con get infected if someone does get to the con infected.
It does the exact same thing getting vaccinated normally which is reduce the spread of infection which is important at a place with lots of people interacting with each other.
Give me money
No give me bad press
Money only!
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I don't really agree here, because there needs to be a light at the end of the tunnel for those who are vaccinated - we were told that getting vaccinated would mean we could go back to life as normal. The major problem is because one of the two major parties in the US has become a functional death cult, we don't have the ability to hold people who willingly refuse vaccination accountable for that decision.
In Indiana.
Okay, that’s a bit unfair. It’s my understanding that Indianapolis’s numbers are better than the state wide %’s are showing, but still.
I can’t speak for PAX, but due to contractual obligations, some simply may not be able to cancel without suffering massive debilitating penalties. Or maybe lack the resources to just not exist as an event for 2+ years straight.
Are PAX and Gencon happening a good idea? Maybe not. Do we have the books to know if skipping more events is viable? No. Should they potentially choose financial suicide rather than potentially become super spreader events? No idea. I don’t envy the people making those decisions.
End of the day, I’m sure a lot of passionate people are making hard calls. If you’re uncertain; don’t go. That’s pretty straight forward. Nobody is owed our participation, and the fewer attendees there are, the better (from a pandemic perspective).
I hope that the events happen as safely as possible (if they aren’t cancelled outright, penalties and whatnot included), but we attendees must ask ourselves if we’re willing to take the risk. If not, skip it. Participate online. Make the choice that’s right for you, nobody can make that call but you.
this is like saying that because you've had one physiotherapy session after breaking your bones you can go run a marathon tomorrow
conventions and concerts are not "life as normal" they're once-a-year events
"normal" is visiting your friends, going into the office
Occasionally going to large, crowded events was still "life as normal."
It's entirely possible that the world we live in is irreversibly fucked in a new and exciting way and we can absolutely never have major gatherings without risking death or long term lung damage even when vaccinated, but that's also obviously not "going back to normal".
I think what gnome is saying is that "back to normal" isn't necessarily a flip of a switch. We're not going to ... well, at least we probably shouldn't just fling the doors back open as quickly and easily as we slammed them shut. We need to take things somewhat gradually. And immediately jumping to "everything is fine pretend it never happened" isn't returning to normal, it's ignoring reality.
What I'm saying is that if we have to not hold large events, even for fully vaccinated people, then we need to accept that's saying either things won't ever return to normal or won't do so on a reasonable timescale. Large indoor gatherings aren't some absurd luxury, most normal people go to them pretty often.
And it's probably the right call to limit such gatherings, but it's also not compelling to tell a bunch of people that conventions and sporting events being permanently canceled is "normal" because hanging with a few friends is ok.
The vaccine is highly effective but it isn't a magical shield of sterility. High population events are still extremely risky!
To those that "need a light at the end of the tunnel" that specifically means going to conventions I would start demanding the actual venues set up the appropriate HVAC.
We should all remember that there was another mysterious disease that killed people who went to conventions. It was called Legionairre's disease and it caused a complete reworking of HVAC infrastructure in hotels. It's time they do the same for airflow.
It may be that conventions open and no one goes because the average person still feels unsafe.
Madison Square Garden one month ago.
Everyone needed to be vaccinated and real proof, as in database lookups, to get inside.
Shit was packed and it wasn’t a super spreader event.
We could do this for all things and force people to get vaccinated to reconnect to society but politics fucking suck.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm sorry but you were simply lied to. There was no version of 2021 where it would have been safe to go to a place that produces an annual "pax pox."
Whether that's something that could have ever happened in the US is another story, but the idea that vaccination could allow a country to reach the level of safety that other countries already achieved via lockdowns was pretty accepted. It just turns out it's as easy to fuck up mass vaccination as it is to fuck up quarantine regulations.
How is "no large gatherings while the deadly global pandemic is still happening" not a reasonable timescale? I didn't see anybody suggesting permanently canceling cons, and I would understand that idea getting pushback.
More people have died this year from Covid than last year. It's still present tense! It's not time to start getting back to normal yet, it's still time to get through the pandemic.
Media definitely has some responsibility for very shitty reporting on statistics.
100 people. 99 are vaccinated, 1 is unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated and one vaccinated get infected.
Media: "50% of the infected are already vaccinated!"