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Chicken [Coup]

HefflingHeffling No PicEverRegistered User regular
edited November 22 in Debate and/or Discourse
On January 6th, President Donald J Trump, having lost his reelection campaign, organized a "Save America" rally in DC. At this rally, he directed the crowd of his most loyal fans to attack the Capitol building with the intent of injuring sitting congresspersons and disrupting the election certification process. This was a desperate bid to remain in power, while Trump himself went to cower in the bunker at the White House. Of note during this attack is that Trump prevented the National Guard from intervening.

138 police officers suffered injuries, with at least 15 requiring hospitalization. Of the rioters, an unknown amount were injured and at least 5 required hospitalization. One officer perished after being pepper sprayed and suffering two strokes (which demonstrates how non-lethal non-lethal methods can be). One rioter was fatally shot while climbing through a window, one died to a meth overdose, and two died due to heart related conditions.

Since this time, 684 people have been charged in relation to the coup attempt. Unfortunately, Trump and his higher ups have not and likely will never suffer any penalties for instigating this attempt to overthrow our democracy. In almost complete lock-step, the Republican party has backed Trump and refused to support an investigation into the January 6th attack on our government. This hyper-partisan behavior in response to a direct attack on our government has clearly demonstrated that the Republicans only value the end result and don't care if they get into power legitimately.

This thread is specifically focused on the coup attempt, the investigation of the coup, and other coup related topics. Some general discussions of Trump and Republican fuckery are expected, but if it veers too off topic, please take the appropriate thread or start a new one. For some specific topics:

All the Other Trump Crimes
The House, The Senate, and Congress In General
Labor and Organization Thereof
Immigration and Homeland Security
Police Brutality unless related to the coup attempt.
Social Media unless related to the coup attempt. E.g. Trump's twitter ban.
Voting Rights and the Suppression of Democrat Votes
The trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, murder
Conspiracy Theories Thread - Q Anon unless specifically related to Jan 6th.

Thanks MorganV for the missing link.

Heffling on
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Posts

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Also for Trump non-coup crimes, direct to
    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240686/trump-org-s-business-is-criming-and-business-is-good

    And keep this thread for the elephant in the room.

    The elephant committing treason.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I'm sorry, I haven't kept up with this... one rioter died of a meth overdose?! There's a fucking story there.

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    The rioters who died are:

    • Ashli Babbitt, 35, died from a gunshot wound to her left shoulder

    • Roseanne Boyland, 34, died of acute amphetamine intoxication

    • Kevin Greeson, 55, died of hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease

    • Benjamin Phillips, 50, died of hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    Like I said right before the other thread ended, I really worry that the politically apathetic being the largest group in the US makes it frighteningly easy for a bolder or more intelligent coup attempt to succeed with little pushback in the US.

    If anything had broken just a bit differently on the 6th, I'm not sure it would have been walked back or fixed.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I'm sorry, I haven't kept up with this... one rioter died of a meth overdose?! There's a fucking story there.

    It’s a fairly common drug and extremely easy to OD on.

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  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    Like I said right before the other thread ended, I really worry that the politically apathetic being the largest group in the US makes it frighteningly easy for a bolder or more intelligent coup attempt to succeed with little pushback in the US.

    If anything had broken just a bit differently on the 6th, I'm not sure it would have been walked back or fixed.

    Little of any of this has changed, at least in a directly perceptible manner, the day-to-day of most people. What you're saying is highly plausible to me; if a coup succeeded, short of a bloodbath I don't think it would amount to greater than a blip on the radar for more Americans than we'd like to think. It feels like it would be treated with the same weight as a Jeopardy question; literally trivial as long as you can continue truckin along with your own life.

    Until, of course, it was far too late.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    I'm sorry, I haven't kept up with this... one rioter died of a meth overdose?! There's a fucking story there.

    It’s a fairly common drug and extremely easy to OD on.

    Also extremely popular with the Nazis as a combat drug which some of these jackasses might have internalized.

    (Spoiler: not actually a good idea)

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    I'm sorry, I haven't kept up with this... one rioter died of a meth overdose?! There's a fucking story there.

    It’s a fairly common drug and extremely easy to OD on.

    Also extremely popular with the Nazis as a combat drug which some of these jackasses might have internalized.

    (Spoiler: not actually a good idea)

    Nazis, Japanese Imperial Army, the 1986 Mets, the worst of the worst

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    I'm sorry, I haven't kept up with this... one rioter died of a meth overdose?! There's a fucking story there.

    It’s a fairly common drug and extremely easy to OD on.

    Also extremely popular with the Nazis as a combat drug which some of these jackasses might have internalized.

    (Spoiler: not actually a good idea)

    Nazis, Japanese Imperial Army, the 1986 Mets, the worst of the worst

    Those were all dextroamphetamine or racemic amphetamines not methamphetamine /nitpick

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    OK I haven't been following this stuff for a while but I just had to mention this. Do ya'll remember Jenna, the terrible Texas Realtor who kept getting kicked off of fundraising platforms? Well her case is finally going to court, and the prosecution is arguing that her remarks on Twitter about how she'll never go to prison because she's blonde and white are proof that she must go to prison or she'll reoffend:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/capitol-riot-influencer-jail-white-b1949329.html

    I'm just tickled that her very public bullshit came back to bite her in the ass. Like she could have, at any time, posted an apology for having made a mistake, but instead she doubled down. Judge decides her fate tomorrow.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Indeed, she didn't even have to apologize.

    She could have just

    like

    not said anything.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 4
    60 days in jail is light. But I’d love to see her serve em. Come on judge go with the prosecutor’s recommendation.

    zepherin on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    she'd be a self surrender unfortunately, but yeah 60 days of prison life would be agony for someone with that kind of attitude

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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    The judge gave her the 60 days in prison. Whoopsie doodle!



    (Reilly works for HuffPost)
    Jenna Ryan gets 60 days in prison: https://t.co/qjhDSjUcFq?amp=1

    I, as a white, middle-aged, cis/het dude cannot fathom the level of privilege that it'd take to think "it'd be a good idea to write 'Definitely not going to jail. I have blonde hair, white skin, a great job, a great future, and am not going to jail. Sorry to rain on your hater parade. I did nothing wrong.' on Twitter".

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I, as a white, middle-aged, cis/het dude cannot fathom the level of privilege that it'd take to think "it'd be a good idea to write 'Definitely not going to jail. I have blonde hair, white skin, a great job, a great future, and am not going to jail. Sorry to rain on your hater parade. I did nothing wrong.' on Twitter".
    It reminds me of the lady who made a funny funny tweet along the lines of 'going to Africa for Christmas, hope I don't get AIDS! Haha, just kidding, I'm white', then turned her phone off and got on a plane for 8 hours. She didn't have a job by the time she landed, and her inbox was probably pretty full.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 4
    klemming wrote: »
    I, as a white, middle-aged, cis/het dude cannot fathom the level of privilege that it'd take to think "it'd be a good idea to write 'Definitely not going to jail. I have blonde hair, white skin, a great job, a great future, and am not going to jail. Sorry to rain on your hater parade. I did nothing wrong.' on Twitter".
    It reminds me of the lady who made a funny funny tweet along the lines of 'going to Africa for Christmas, hope I don't get AIDS! Haha, just kidding, I'm white', then turned her phone off and got on a plane for 8 hours. She didn't have a job by the time she landed, and her inbox was probably pretty full.

    Edited in quote to make it clearer who I'm referring to: the woman who Klemming is talking about, whose life was ruined because of one incredibly idiotic tweet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

    It's a fine line to walk, yes yes, freedom of speech isn't protected on platforms, it's not freedom from consequences, don't be a racist shitbag, etc, etc.

    Still not entirely comfortable with internet dogpiles that ruin people's lives over one idiotic moment.

    Sure, people who are unreservedly assholes day in, day out, I can appreciate a little consequences landing once in a while as much as the next person, but still, it's a complicated thing and The Internet at large gets it wrong often enough I'm not sure it's something to encourage.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Ahh, there’s the schadenfreude I needed so badly today.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 4
    That’s what I wanted to see. 60 days sucks to do. It’s 2 months of her life, she will remember forever, and it could effect her licensing.

    Now personally. For the rioters that entered the building and then left without committing other crimes. I think 90-120 days is more appropriate, but I’ll take 60 days.

    I know plenty of folks who have done 60 days and they all say it sucks real bad. So I’ll take it. In federal court, because it’s less than a year I believe she does full freight.

    zepherin on
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  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    Getting convicted and sent to jail will definitely get her kicked out of the Realtor Association, although whether that'll effect her real estate license depends on Texas law as well as whatever shitty brokerage she works for. Still, sometimes justice tastes sweet after all.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I'm sure the 60 will be bargained down to nothing

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I'm sure the 60 will be bargained down to nothing

    I don't think there's any bargaining after conviction in the Federal system. There's no federal parole.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Also keep in mind she is the kind of asshole that belongs to the entitled group that hasn't dealt with consequences or actually being in a position of truly shitty. She is now going to suffer consequences and she isn't going to enjoy those 60 days in jail. Hell, she strikes as the type where she is going to be really miserable.

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  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    Future member of the house Jenna Ryan

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Fuck, I hope her Rodan and Fields and Scentsy customers are able to find another dealer er um oops I meant consultant

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  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    Fuck, I hope her Rodan and Fields and Scentsy customers are able to find another dealer er um oops I meant consultant

    God I wish I could give this more than one awesome. When I was buying my house, we went to the realtor's office for paperwork and he had stacks and stacks of Scentsy boxes everywhere. "Yeah, I cant even give this shit away, do you want a wax melter thingie?"

    I turned it down.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited November 4
    Forar wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

    It's a fine line to walk, yes yes, freedom of speech isn't protected on platforms, it's not freedom from consequences, don't be a racist shitbag, etc, etc.

    Still not entirely comfortable with internet dogpiles that ruin people's lives over one idiotic moment.

    Sure, people who are unreservedly assholes day in, day out, I can appreciate a little consequences landing once in a while as much as the next person, but still, it's a complicated thing and The Internet at large gets it wrong often enough I'm not sure it's something to encourage.

    Not going to bother dodging the paywall to read the article, but: it wasn’t one stupid tweet that ruined her life.

    It was participating in a fucking fascist coup that ruined her life.

    The tweet just put her actions into context.

    Shadowhope on
    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited November 4
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

    It's a fine line to walk, yes yes, freedom of speech isn't protected on platforms, it's not freedom from consequences, don't be a racist shitbag, etc, etc.

    Still not entirely comfortable with internet dogpiles that ruin people's lives over one idiotic moment.

    Sure, people who are unreservedly assholes day in, day out, I can appreciate a little consequences landing once in a while as much as the next person, but still, it's a complicated thing and The Internet at large gets it wrong often enough I'm not sure it's something to encourage.

    Not going to bother dodging the paywall to read the article, but: it wasn’t one stupid tweet that ruined her life.

    It was participating in a fucking fascist coup that ruined her life.

    The tweet just put her actions into context.

    This was in reference to the lady that sent the dumb tweet joke about getting aids while traveling to Africa

    Captain Inertia on
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 4
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

    It's a fine line to walk, yes yes, freedom of speech isn't protected on platforms, it's not freedom from consequences, don't be a racist shitbag, etc, etc.

    Still not entirely comfortable with internet dogpiles that ruin people's lives over one idiotic moment.

    Sure, people who are unreservedly assholes day in, day out, I can appreciate a little consequences landing once in a while as much as the next person, but still, it's a complicated thing and The Internet at large gets it wrong often enough I'm not sure it's something to encourage.

    Not going to bother dodging the paywall to read the article, but: it wasn’t one stupid tweet that ruined her life.

    It was participating in a fucking fascist coup that ruined her life.

    The tweet just put her actions into context.

    You seem to have overlooked that I'm not referring to Jenna Ryan: Coup'ist.

    I'm specifically referring to klemming's commentary on another woman whose life was indeed literally ruined because of one stupid tweet, and how I don't think we should be holding that up as something to aspire to, especially with how bad the internet is with misattributing things.

    The URL even includes her name.

    Perhaps I should have quoted Klemming. I thought that, in context, it would be clear, but didn't realize the article was paywalled so I can see how some confusion might be present, and will edit in details accordingly.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Ah, OK. And sorry, I can’t really be bothered to memorize the names of the compost.

    I actually typed coupists rather than compost, but I’ll let autocorrect have that one.

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I'm sure the 60 will be bargained down to nothing

    I don't think there's any bargaining after conviction in the Federal system. There's no federal parole.
    There's also no good time, no release for overcrowding, no compassionate release. Federal time is a completely different animal than state time. Where there are ways to get dismissed early. It's why Martha Stewart did her full freight, and she has substantially more resources and is much better liked than Jenna Ryan.

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    she will have to do all 60 days, good time only counts for sentences of more than 12 months. there is no federal parole or any way to be released early in most circumstances, you can apply for compassionate release which she isn't qualified for and wouldn't get in 60 days anyway, nor is she at any great risk for covid.

    I would expect she'll go to a camp? I don't actually know, you can end up at a low even with 2-3 month sentences. I doubt her "I was at the capitol riot" paperwork will go over too terribly well with your average prison inmates

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    I, as a white, middle-aged, cis/het dude cannot fathom the level of privilege that it'd take to think "it'd be a good idea to write 'Definitely not going to jail. I have blonde hair, white skin, a great job, a great future, and am not going to jail. Sorry to rain on your hater parade. I did nothing wrong.' on Twitter".
    It reminds me of the lady who made a funny funny tweet along the lines of 'going to Africa for Christmas, hope I don't get AIDS! Haha, just kidding, I'm white', then turned her phone off and got on a plane for 8 hours. She didn't have a job by the time she landed, and her inbox was probably pretty full.

    Edited in quote to make it clearer who I'm referring to: the woman who Klemming is talking about, whose life was ruined because of one incredibly idiotic tweet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

    It's a fine line to walk, yes yes, freedom of speech isn't protected on platforms, it's not freedom from consequences, don't be a racist shitbag, etc, etc.

    Still not entirely comfortable with internet dogpiles that ruin people's lives over one idiotic moment.

    Sure, people who are unreservedly assholes day in, day out, I can appreciate a little consequences landing once in a while as much as the next person, but still, it's a complicated thing and The Internet at large gets it wrong often enough I'm not sure it's something to encourage.



    Normalize letting Diego get his shit together.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    What is that tweet in reference too, spool? And who is the author?

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    What is that tweet in reference too, spool? And who is the author?

    Laura Jedeed is an independent progressive journalist and the tweet is a thread about a random graffitti she saw, as a metaphor for how Twitter fucks people who ought to be allowed to move beyond a moment of abject stupidity.

  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    I think it's possible to draw a distinction between Twitter being designed so a bad take can make national news and your statements being used against you in a court of law.

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    I think it's possible to draw a distinction between Twitter being designed so a bad take can make national news and your statements being used against you in a court of law.

    Emphatic hell yes. The key there is that the one is just some dumb shit you said out loud near a really big mic, and the other is some shit you said about some shit you did, making it vastly more relevant.

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  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    It's worth noting, twitter is a pretty affirmative action when talking. It takes more concious effort than just blurting things out and getting picked up by an errant microphone.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Twitter is de facto “don’t say anything on the internet you wouldn’t say in a crowded room full of strangers”

    Like that maxim existed over 20 years ago so I have no pity for idiots that don’t get it now.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Twitter is de facto “don’t say anything on the internet you wouldn’t say in a crowded room full of strangers”

    Like that maxim existed over 20 years ago so I have no pity for idiots that don’t get it now.

    Agreed, but twitter is also good at making you feel like you're only talking to your followers who understand and agree with you. It's the disconnect between these two things that catch people out.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Twitter is de facto “don’t say anything on the internet you wouldn’t say in a crowded room full of strangers”

    Like that maxim existed over 20 years ago so I have no pity for idiots that don’t get it now.

    Agreed, but twitter is also good at making you feel like you're only talking to your followers who understand and agree with you. It's the disconnect between these two things that catch people out.

    It takes a lot of connotative dissonance to see it that way. Even not hot takes (especially from women) can invite a ocean of condemnation.

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