I've only ever played her in aram, so I'm looking to expand my real game repertoire. I'm a blank slate other than knowing the mechanics.
Yrel trades decently well with most people, and has all right wave clear (quick jump, D+Q will get most of a wave). Her biggest issue nowadays is mana, I think. They nerfed her mana a while back and she'll run out fast if you aren't making good use of your abilities. Hit them and the enemy hero will probably not want to trade with you, but if you miss too much they'll outlast you.
I saw NotParadox and a few other guides swearing that Yrel should be build full spell damage + E build. I fiddled a few times, and I don't fine it working in theory or in practice.
Holy Avenger and Velen's Chosen are the cores of that build and I just don't see the value being worth it. +10% spell power for hitting a hero at max charge, lasts 10 seconds, stacks up to 30%. Reduce E cooldown to 1s when at max charge.
Ok, sounds good, but what does that actually end up doing? Charge up E manually, jump in, wait 1 second, D, E, ult, D, E. You've now hit with 3 max charges for +10%, +20%, then +30% spell damage. So, 60% total. That's half of a spell in extra damage, conditional that you have to manually set up before a fight, blow an ult, and blow both of your Ds to do? And that bonus is decaying so that it will be mostly gone (or the fight will be over) by the time your D is up again.
I don't get how that's superior to her other talent options. The 1s cooldown on E is also of limited usefulness prior to 20. I could see it start getting good with Divine Favor at 16, but then you're giving up Templar's Verdict. And that's the thing: you're giving up way too much good stuff just for some marginal, conditional spell power on your E. How in the world is 10% spell power better than a 40% damage debuff (Aldor Peacekeeper) that can be made to last the entire fight?
There are so many better choices if you want to play a bruiser focused on damage.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
So, 60% total. That's half of a spell in extra damage, conditional that you have to manually set up before a fight, blow an ult, and blow both of your Ds to do?
ok I think this sentence betrays where you might be going wrong
what do you mean set it up "before a fight?" you just engage with the first E and then keep fighting, building up the bonus and doing even more damage throughout the fight. The 1s cooldown thing isn't about getting more spellpower, it's about landing more Es because that's more damage (and you take the spellpower talent since it synergizes perfectly with what you're already trying to do).
It still only amounts to roughly 3.6 Es instead of 3.
Is 0.6 of an E really worth taking over a 40% AoE damage debuff?
I also see NotParadox and the majority of guides saying to always pick her Ardent Defender ult. I heavily disagree with that. At 120 seconds, it's one of the longest cooldowns in the game, for what is essentially a worse version of Uther's Divine Shield. You can only use it on yourself, and the healing factor barely comes into play as even the dregs of quickmatch will almost instantly stop attacking once they see it up.
Sacred Ground on the other hand, gives around as much extra survivability on one-third of the cooldown, which is much more important now that your D is refreshed by the ult. I think the only times I don't get Sacred Ground are when we don't have a healer, the enemy team has some kind of easy ability to push me out of Sacred Ground, and/or the enemy has some kind of high damage ability that they can't cancel easy. I think 2 of those have to be true before I'll consider taking Ardent.
I'd like to see more ults changed to "4th abilities". Stuff like Sgt. Hammer's Napalm Strike that gives her a ranged option on a 6-second cooldown. Not gonna win team fights or turn the tide of a battle, but just provide more utility during the game. Same applies to Garrosh's Decimate.
There are some ults that could be dropped to "standard" ability usage and be great as utility moves (assuming damage/effects20 upgrades are brought in line). My thoughts mostly lean towards Bruisers/Tanks, but off the top of my head, Kerrigan's Maelstrom, Malth's Tormented Souls, Morale's Medivac, and Anub's Locust Swarm would be great as lower impact, generalized ults.
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I kinda wish the level 10 Locust Swarm came with the little buddy by default. Make the 20 upgrade give you 2 more or have your beetles life leech or something.
Edit: wait, the CD is longer than a minute?
Whelk on
+4
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Since we're talking about him, I still wish Anub's beetles worked like Mario Kart Red Shells.
Locust Swarm is fine for what it is - a backup survivability/damage option when the other team has good Cocoon counters available. The cooldown could definitely be a little shorter, though.
The cooldown absolutely needs to be substantially shorter. There's almost no scenario I'd ever pick it currently. Honestly, I was thinking about this the other day, and I guess I'd find it a lot more interesting if it also (or just plain instead) spawned a fuck-ton of beetles. Really double-down on the trait build functionality. It would be super interesting if Anub could just, on-demand force a skill shot block by shedding a bunch of beetles in an array around himself and allies. And then once they're on the field, they have all of the additional beetle build functionality added in.
Could potentially make both Swarm and beetle build viable in one stroke.
The cooldown absolutely needs to be substantially shorter. There's almost no scenario I'd ever pick it currently. Honestly, I was thinking about this the other day, and I guess I'd find it a lot more interesting if it also (or just plain instead) spawned a fuck-ton of beetles. Really double-down on the trait build functionality. It would be super interesting if Anub could just, on-demand force a skill shot block by shedding a bunch of beetles in an array around himself and allies. And then once they're on the field, they have all of the additional beetle build functionality added in.
Could potentially make both Swarm and beetle build viable in one stroke.
Baking in the level 20 Vampire Lotus would be a nice addition to the ult. Bring it's power done a bit and buff it at 20.
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Having ult be releasing a swarm of talented beetles would be very cool and also a nightmare surprise for whoever is 1v1ing you suddenly being surrounded by attacking flaming bugs that heal you
Having ult be releasing a swarm of talented beetles would be very cool and also a nightmare surprise for whoever is 1v1ing you suddenly being surrounded by attacking flaming bugs that heal you
What if it were untalented beetles? Could that be strong enough? It'd also mean it's not so dependent on other talents. Could still be good if it's like, "spawn 15 beetles at once" or something silly :P
Having ult be releasing a swarm of talented beetles would be very cool and also a nightmare surprise for whoever is 1v1ing you suddenly being surrounded by attacking flaming bugs that heal you
What if it were untalented beetles? Could that be strong enough? It'd also mean it's not so dependent on other talents. Could still be good if it's like, "spawn 15 beetles at once" or something silly :P
What if Locust Swarm spawned three untalented beetles, made all your beetles invincible for 8 seconds and they prefer heroic targets? Like 75 second cooldown?
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Make Locust Swarm a level 16 talent for his W and turn his other ult into Cocoon, But It's Ally-Targeted And Secretly Crystal Aegis
I think there were only 20 heroes when the public Alpha first started. Interestingly, the actual hero select UI -- with the two groups of hexagons and your hero in the middle -- remains basically unchanged (not counting the QoL things like hero filtering and sorting).
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I think there were only 20 heroes when the public Alpha first started. Interestingly, the actual hero select UI -- with the two groups of hexagons and your hero in the middle -- remains basically unchanged (not counting the QoL things like hero filtering and sorting).
it's an extremely good UI tbh, they just nailed it first try
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but this build still exists and is extremely funny, so
https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/yrel#oRtC
Yrel trades decently well with most people, and has all right wave clear (quick jump, D+Q will get most of a wave). Her biggest issue nowadays is mana, I think. They nerfed her mana a while back and she'll run out fast if you aren't making good use of your abilities. Hit them and the enemy hero will probably not want to trade with you, but if you miss too much they'll outlast you.
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Holy Avenger and Velen's Chosen are the cores of that build and I just don't see the value being worth it. +10% spell power for hitting a hero at max charge, lasts 10 seconds, stacks up to 30%. Reduce E cooldown to 1s when at max charge.
Ok, sounds good, but what does that actually end up doing? Charge up E manually, jump in, wait 1 second, D, E, ult, D, E. You've now hit with 3 max charges for +10%, +20%, then +30% spell damage. So, 60% total. That's half of a spell in extra damage, conditional that you have to manually set up before a fight, blow an ult, and blow both of your Ds to do? And that bonus is decaying so that it will be mostly gone (or the fight will be over) by the time your D is up again.
I don't get how that's superior to her other talent options. The 1s cooldown on E is also of limited usefulness prior to 20. I could see it start getting good with Divine Favor at 16, but then you're giving up Templar's Verdict. And that's the thing: you're giving up way too much good stuff just for some marginal, conditional spell power on your E. How in the world is 10% spell power better than a 40% damage debuff (Aldor Peacekeeper) that can be made to last the entire fight?
There are so many better choices if you want to play a bruiser focused on damage.
ok I think this sentence betrays where you might be going wrong
what do you mean set it up "before a fight?" you just engage with the first E and then keep fighting, building up the bonus and doing even more damage throughout the fight. The 1s cooldown thing isn't about getting more spellpower, it's about landing more Es because that's more damage (and you take the spellpower talent since it synergizes perfectly with what you're already trying to do).
Is 0.6 of an E really worth taking over a 40% AoE damage debuff?
I also see NotParadox and the majority of guides saying to always pick her Ardent Defender ult. I heavily disagree with that. At 120 seconds, it's one of the longest cooldowns in the game, for what is essentially a worse version of Uther's Divine Shield. You can only use it on yourself, and the healing factor barely comes into play as even the dregs of quickmatch will almost instantly stop attacking once they see it up.
Sacred Ground on the other hand, gives around as much extra survivability on one-third of the cooldown, which is much more important now that your D is refreshed by the ult. I think the only times I don't get Sacred Ground are when we don't have a healer, the enemy team has some kind of easy ability to push me out of Sacred Ground, and/or the enemy has some kind of high damage ability that they can't cancel easy. I think 2 of those have to be true before I'll consider taking Ardent.
Edit: Ah, it was a dono challenge. Shows how bad the ult is in most cases though.
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wra
ugh....
Ed: Also, Arthas is really fun into a melee-heavy comp!
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wra
Arthas is very specific, but he is awesome in his niche!
There are some ults that could be dropped to "standard" ability usage and be great as utility moves (assuming damage/effects20 upgrades are brought in line). My thoughts mostly lean towards Bruisers/Tanks, but off the top of my head, Kerrigan's Maelstrom, Malth's Tormented Souls, Morale's Medivac, and Anub's Locust Swarm would be great as lower impact, generalized ults.
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Edit: wait, the CD is longer than a minute?
Locust Swarm is fine for what it is - a backup survivability/damage option when the other team has good Cocoon counters available. The cooldown could definitely be a little shorter, though.
Could potentially make both Swarm and beetle build viable in one stroke.
Baking in the level 20 Vampire Lotus would be a nice addition to the ult. Bring it's power done a bit and buff it at 20.
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Tells you something about an 'ultimate' imo
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wra
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
What if it were untalented beetles? Could that be strong enough? It'd also mean it's not so dependent on other talents. Could still be good if it's like, "spawn 15 beetles at once" or something silly :P
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Level 20 to make it talents apply
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wra
It didn't need to be OP. Just good enough
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I kind of forgot about him.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
When you come out you are Kerrigan
I'd settle for that. I'd prefer that until your next death you get Yrels leap ability on hotbar.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Comes out as BW
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wra
Look at that UI and roster size. What a difference 7 years makes.
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it's an extremely good UI tbh, they just nailed it first try
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wra