Also, apparently they left the call-in line for listening to the hearing totally unmuted, so it's hundreds of people chattering at each other, and another hundred yelling at the rest to shut up.
Can't the government like you said above point out them requesting security clearance already erase their defense?
They haven't officially claimed to have declassified everything. They haven't actually claimed to have declassified anything, just said that they might want to claim that if necessary. So anything that's still classified (on the, rather generous, assumption anything was declassified) would still require clearance to look at.
PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
+3
Options
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
DOJ had to agree to Dearie, Cannon can apparently dismiss him (though I don't know what grounds she would have to do so), but she can't just assign a crony.
Also, apparently they left the call-in line for listening to the hearing totally unmuted, so it's hundreds of people chattering at each other, and another hundred yelling at the rest to shut up.
Court technology.
I've seen enough reply-alls and zoom meetings to know that was going to happen
He presses Trump’s lawyers on what he’s supposed to do. The government provided “prima facie evidence” of classification, ie, the markings.
“As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”
Get fuuuuuucked, Trump
It’s funny, this sounds like Dearie basically throwing his hands up about Cannon’s bullshit because there’s no actual SM-relevant materials for Trump’s team to produce
One theory about why Trump offered Dearie as a choice was the rumor he was looking to retire by end of year. I like the idea that Dearie absolutely is but took the case because he knew it'd be over really damn quick.
He presses Trump’s lawyers on what he’s supposed to do. The government provided “prima facie evidence” of classification, ie, the markings.
“As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”
Get fuuuuuucked, Trump
It’s funny, this sounds like Dearie basically throwing his hands up about Cannon’s bullshit because there’s no actual SM-relevant materials for Trump’s team to produce
One theory about why Trump offered Dearie as a choice was the rumor he was looking to retire by end of year. I like the idea that Dearie absolutely is but took the case because he knew it'd be over really damn quick.
My understanding is he is already retired from his federal judgeship
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
0
Options
TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
At this point I can't see that they'd particularly care.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
"If the DOJ won't accept any of these other Special Masters, I guess we can't proceed, oh well."
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under over their robe.
Fixed that for you.
Cause at this point, I think anything but overt support will be insufficient for this wanker.
If they're not showing up at a Trump rally and giving the Q-1 salute (and then getting offended that you would question their impartiality), they might question their loyalty.
And loyalty from the judiciary (and jury nullification) are the only way he has out, at this point.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
"If the DOJ won't accept any of these other Special Masters, I guess we can't proceed, oh well."
In which case the DOJ appeals and a sane panel of judges throw out this entire special master nonsense.
Yes I am fully aware that the appeals court might be just as corrupt. It’s possible for us to construct a doomsday scenario for every step in the process. I just have no desire to do so.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
"If the DOJ won't accept any of these other Special Masters, I guess we can't proceed, oh well."
In which case the DOJ appeals and a sane panel of judges throw out this entire special master nonsense.
Yes I am fully aware that the appeals court might be just as corrupt. It’s possible for us to construct a doomsday scenario for every step in the process. I just have no desire to do so.
It's not even necessarily about that. This is "election fraud" all over again.
Trump doesn't need to win all the way through. He just needs to get enough initial wins, so that he can point to an overruled positon as "rigged by a corrupt system", and have it become a partisan issue. If even a few of his election lawsuits had passed that first hurdle, he'd have gotten a lot further in his attempt to delegitimize those rulings.
Trump is again working on the belief that the other side is so scared of the damage to the institution, they'll blink first. It's worked for him in the past, and he's paid no consequence, and he's got an army of cultists now (for those who saw the "Sieg Q" salute at his recent rally).
EDIT - They also played either the Q anthem, or a song that's almost identical to (plausible deniability). He's also posted or retwuthed multiple Q references recently. Definitely embracing his position as das Q-rher.
If he can't have a win, he's happy destroying the institutions that might hold him to account.
There's argument being made over it being the Q song, and a song called Mirrors (that are musically very similar apparently), for the same reason co-opting other things like the OK sign, and other catchphrases/memes/slogans. You get to act indignant while also pissing off the "libs". Greivance is their go-to feel-good. Hate sustains them, but acting the victim is their cherry on top.
The salute is basically a seig heil, but with all but the index finger curled, a reference to "where we go one". It's stupid, but it's also fucking scary. And also the inevitable conclusion to this path.
The Federal Rules of Civil/Criminal Procedure are an actual hundreds of pages thing that exists to govern how litigation proceeds. If you don't know what's in them that's fine. Most people don't! There's an entire profession built up around litigating competing claims in a Courtroom! But just writing everything off and claiming judges are kings of their courtroom is... pretty much pointless tea reading.
Especially when you take into consideration that the very fact of this courtroom drama: which is to say the Department of Justice filing legal complaints against the former President over documents that they seized from executing a search warrant signed off by a Federal Judge, was itself claimed to be an impossibility earlier this year.
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
The appellate court is also Trump's people
It's tough to say what she'll do because we're in uncharted territory here, but if I had to hazard a guess, she was so cavalier in her original ruling, and so unbelievably overreaching, that I would not be surprised at all if she was to dismiss the special master's recommendations and write her own.
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
The appellate court is also Trump's people
It's tough to say what she'll do because we're in uncharted territory here, but if I had to hazard a guess, she was so cavalier in her original ruling, and so unbelievably overreaching, that I would not be surprised at all if she was to dismiss the special master's recommendations and write her own.
Oh, I figure that's a given at this point. And it's not even that much of a focus on winning (though who knows how compromised the appeals will be).
It's about delaying. If you can delay until after the mid-terms, Trump gets to announce his candidacy, and then gets to use the "persecuted by political enemies" bullshit, and hope the media buys it.
Delays are wins for Trump. It's been how he's handled things his entire life. Heck, if he hadn't been running for President, I think the Trump University case would still be ongoing.
He's going to eventually die, and still have dozens of outstanding lawsuits.
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
The appellate court is also Trump's people
It's tough to say what she'll do because we're in uncharted territory here, but if I had to hazard a guess, she was so cavalier in her original ruling, and so unbelievably overreaching, that I would not be surprised at all if she was to dismiss the special master's recommendations and write her own.
Oh, I figure that's a given at this point. And it's not even that much of a focus on winning (though who knows how compromised the appeals will be).
It's about delaying. If you can delay until after the mid-terms, Trump gets to announce his candidacy, and then gets to use the "persecuted by political enemies" bullshit, and hope the media buys it.
Delays are wins for Trump. It's been how he's handled things his entire life. Heck, if he hadn't been running for President, I think the Trump University case would still be ongoing.
He's going to eventually die, and still have dozens of outstanding lawsuits.
She's also deep into the Conservative standard of "never admit fault or wrongdoing". She can't have been wrong at any point in her previous decisions, so everybody else must be wrong, so she'll have to double-down on Trump's special status as "not subject to the law and also he can overrule the current President because there's no rule specifically against that".
Apparently Cannon included language that she can dismiss the Special Master.
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if she does, and then goes down the list until she finds someone more "agreeable".
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
The appellate court is also Trump's people
It's tough to say what she'll do because we're in uncharted territory here, but if I had to hazard a guess, she was so cavalier in her original ruling, and so unbelievably overreaching, that I would not be surprised at all if she was to dismiss the special master's recommendations and write her own.
Oh, I figure that's a given at this point. And it's not even that much of a focus on winning (though who knows how compromised the appeals will be).
It's about delaying. If you can delay until after the mid-terms, Trump gets to announce his candidacy, and then gets to use the "persecuted by political enemies" bullshit, and hope the media buys it.
Delays are wins for Trump. It's been how he's handled things his entire life. Heck, if he hadn't been running for President, I think the Trump University case would still be ongoing.
He's going to eventually die, and still have dozens of outstanding lawsuits.
She's also deep into the Conservative standard of "never admit fault or wrongdoing". She can't have been wrong at any point in her previous decisions, so everybody else must be wrong, so she'll have to double-down on Trump's special status as "not subject to the law and also he can overrule the current President because there's no rule specifically against that".
She already refused to allow amicus briefs from other conservatives as part of the case. It definitely tracks that she will go ride or die on this.
There's argument being made over it being the Q song, and a song called Mirrors (that are musically very similar apparently), for the same reason co-opting other things like the OK sign, and other catchphrases/memes/slogans. You get to act indignant while also pissing off the "libs". Greivance is their go-to feel-good. Hate sustains them, but acting the victim is their cherry on top.
The salute is basically a seig heil, but with all but the index finger curled, a reference to "where we go one". It's stupid, but it's also fucking scary. And also the inevitable conclusion to this path.
Part of me just wanted this to be the Justin Timberlake song Mirrors and then trump getting sued for it.
Trump probably saw him on TV in a low budget commercial at 2am.
"Are you in trouble? Need a trusty lawyer right now? Call Jim Trusty! The lawyer you can trust!"
+5
Options
ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
Trump dialing AMC from the toilet at 3am demanding to speak with Saul Goodman.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
+45
Options
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
edited September 2022
I think Trusty trying to force them to start the clearance process is a stall tactic. A good one if they can get a judge to agree. Because the time to get a clearance is 6 months to a year, and if the clearance gets bounced for any reason they'll have to start over with a new judge and new clearance. And if the information is nuclear, no interim clearances will be accepted.
A FISA judge for a special master would make sense. I also agree with the DOJ for appealing this and agreeing to that specific special master.
I think Trusty trying to force them to start the clearance process is a stall tactic. A good one if they can get a judge to agree. Because the time to get a clearance is 6 months to a year, and if the clearance gets bounced for any reason they'll have to start over with a new judge and new clearance. And if the information is nuclear, no interim clearances will be accepted.
A FISA judge for a special master would make sense. I also agree with the DOJ for appealing this and agreeing to that specific special master.
It's 6 months to a year for a normal peon trying to get clearance for work. It can be done more quickly if necessary, all the way up to Biden filling out the paperwork and saying, "So and so has clearance now." skipping all the background checks, interviews, and polygraphs. I don't think the DOJ would try to make that happen, but they could absolutely expedite the process.
Yeah, but on the other hand, would you really want any of these ... "attorneys" to have that kind of clearance?
(And as the gripping hand, as others have been saying, wait, isn't their argument that all of this has already been declassified after the fact? ohhh right, they're not making that as a legal argument, just saying it a lot for the media, 'cause they and even their boss, IMO, know perfectly well he hasn't and can't actually do that and saying so in a court filing would be straight-up perjury.)
Yeah, but on the other hand, would you really want any of these ... "attorneys" to have that kind of clearance?
(And as the gripping hand, as others have been saying, wait, isn't their argument that all of this has already been declassified after the fact? ohhh right, they're not making that as a legal argument, just saying it a lot for the media, 'cause they and even their boss, IMO, know perfectly well he hasn't and can't actually do that and saying so in a court filing would be straight-up perjury.)
So clearance isn't like instant access to anything that clearance or lower. You need a reason to have access to a specific doc. In this case we know the list of docs concerned. We also probably can't really count on the contents of those specific docs actually being secret, at least among state level actors. Because of the crime in question.
So who gives a fuck? Like, these guys especially are fucked if that information starts showing up in public. Maybe let them tie their names to it so they're nicely anchored.
Posts
The obvious question here being, "If you declassified these documents... why do we need security clearances?"
Court technology.
1) He ain't the president
2) If he was the president, that's still not a compelling reason to give security clearances to his lawyers
3) Eat shit
pleasepaypreacher.net
They haven't officially claimed to have declassified everything. They haven't actually claimed to have declassified anything, just said that they might want to claim that if necessary. So anything that's still classified (on the, rather generous, assumption anything was declassified) would still require clearance to look at.
I've seen enough reply-alls and zoom meetings to know that was going to happen
One theory about why Trump offered Dearie as a choice was the rumor he was looking to retire by end of year. I like the idea that Dearie absolutely is but took the case because he knew it'd be over really damn quick.
My understanding is he is already retired from his federal judgeship
Which is probably another third rail for her at this point.
That level of Calvinball would absolutely backfire, because if she dumps Dearie without cause, you've then pissed on/ pissed off a federal colleague in good standing.
At this point I can't see that they'd particularly care.
But as others noted above, she can just choose not to listen to him. *shrug*
Both sides need to agree on who the special master is. She can’t really just keep shopping for a judge wearing an “I love Trump” shirt under their robe.
"If the DOJ won't accept any of these other Special Masters, I guess we can't proceed, oh well."
Fixed that for you.
Cause at this point, I think anything but overt support will be insufficient for this wanker.
If they're not showing up at a Trump rally and giving the Q-1 salute (and then getting offended that you would question their impartiality), they might question their loyalty.
And loyalty from the judiciary (and jury nullification) are the only way he has out, at this point.
In which case the DOJ appeals and a sane panel of judges throw out this entire special master nonsense.
Yes I am fully aware that the appeals court might be just as corrupt. It’s possible for us to construct a doomsday scenario for every step in the process. I just have no desire to do so.
It's not even necessarily about that. This is "election fraud" all over again.
Trump doesn't need to win all the way through. He just needs to get enough initial wins, so that he can point to an overruled positon as "rigged by a corrupt system", and have it become a partisan issue. If even a few of his election lawsuits had passed that first hurdle, he'd have gotten a lot further in his attempt to delegitimize those rulings.
Trump is again working on the belief that the other side is so scared of the damage to the institution, they'll blink first. It's worked for him in the past, and he's paid no consequence, and he's got an army of cultists now (for those who saw the "Sieg Q" salute at his recent rally).
EDIT - They also played either the Q anthem, or a song that's almost identical to (plausible deniability). He's also posted or retwuthed multiple Q references recently. Definitely embracing his position as das Q-rher.
If he can't have a win, he's happy destroying the institutions that might hold him to account.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/politics/trump-rally-qanon-music.html
"Trump Rally Plays Music Resembling QAnon Song, and Crowds React"
This has a clip with both.
There's argument being made over it being the Q song, and a song called Mirrors (that are musically very similar apparently), for the same reason co-opting other things like the OK sign, and other catchphrases/memes/slogans. You get to act indignant while also pissing off the "libs". Greivance is their go-to feel-good. Hate sustains them, but acting the victim is their cherry on top.
The salute is basically a seig heil, but with all but the index finger curled, a reference to "where we go one". It's stupid, but it's also fucking scary. And also the inevitable conclusion to this path.
Especially when you take into consideration that the very fact of this courtroom drama: which is to say the Department of Justice filing legal complaints against the former President over documents that they seized from executing a search warrant signed off by a Federal Judge, was itself claimed to be an impossibility earlier this year.
man I wouldn't be surprised if she just declared Trump immune from all crimes and that he was the active president and ordered Biden arrested
There effectively aren't laws anymore where conservatives are concerned, the judiciary is making it up as they go
The appellate court is also Trump's people
It's tough to say what she'll do because we're in uncharted territory here, but if I had to hazard a guess, she was so cavalier in her original ruling, and so unbelievably overreaching, that I would not be surprised at all if she was to dismiss the special master's recommendations and write her own.
Oh, I figure that's a given at this point. And it's not even that much of a focus on winning (though who knows how compromised the appeals will be).
It's about delaying. If you can delay until after the mid-terms, Trump gets to announce his candidacy, and then gets to use the "persecuted by political enemies" bullshit, and hope the media buys it.
Delays are wins for Trump. It's been how he's handled things his entire life. Heck, if he hadn't been running for President, I think the Trump University case would still be ongoing.
He's going to eventually die, and still have dozens of outstanding lawsuits.
She's also deep into the Conservative standard of "never admit fault or wrongdoing". She can't have been wrong at any point in her previous decisions, so everybody else must be wrong, so she'll have to double-down on Trump's special status as "not subject to the law and also he can overrule the current President because there's no rule specifically against that".
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
She already refused to allow amicus briefs from other conservatives as part of the case. It definitely tracks that she will go ride or die on this.
Part of me just wanted this to be the Justin Timberlake song Mirrors and then trump getting sued for it.
He's not just one of Trump's lawyers, he's basically the only one that is qualified in any way to be in court.
I mean, if you had to choose between good ol' Trusty or Patsy Baloney, who are you gonna choose?
"Are you in trouble? Need a trusty lawyer right now? Call Jim Trusty! The lawyer you can trust!"
A FISA judge for a special master would make sense. I also agree with the DOJ for appealing this and agreeing to that specific special master.
It's 6 months to a year for a normal peon trying to get clearance for work. It can be done more quickly if necessary, all the way up to Biden filling out the paperwork and saying, "So and so has clearance now." skipping all the background checks, interviews, and polygraphs. I don't think the DOJ would try to make that happen, but they could absolutely expedite the process.
(And as the gripping hand, as others have been saying, wait, isn't their argument that all of this has already been declassified after the fact?
So clearance isn't like instant access to anything that clearance or lower. You need a reason to have access to a specific doc. In this case we know the list of docs concerned. We also probably can't really count on the contents of those specific docs actually being secret, at least among state level actors. Because of the crime in question.
So who gives a fuck? Like, these guys especially are fucked if that information starts showing up in public. Maybe let them tie their names to it so they're nicely anchored.