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House/Homeowner Thread: This is no longer a quick or little project

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    It was that whole street, and those homes were built in the 70s or earlier (Pete Sampras grew up in that neighborhood, that’s my reference point for dating the homes ha)

    Also one of the homeowners reported a surprise high 4-digit water bill indicating a leak- could have caused some critical erosion, or the pipes may have been early damage from the ground shifting to a terminal threshold

    But yeah, those homes were built on the edge of that hill for an ocean view

    Now with extra ocean view.

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    altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I get so irritated about the houses falling down the cliff. Because someone didn’t get an engineer, and cheaped out on the build. And the person who cheaped out isn’t going to be the one that currently has the home.

    Palos Verdes has a long storied tradition of laughing at mans hubris by constantly falling into the ocean.

    My two favorite examples are Trump Nationals' 18th hole falling into the ocean and The Sunken City

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    JusticeJustice Registered User regular
    Anyone have experience with ozone generators?

    We bought a kinda gross 1952 house earlier this year, best we could do in a city with a crazy tight housing market under $500k. When we bought it, it had new carpet and paint. Once the smell of new carpet and paint wore off, we realized it smelled like stale cigarettes. Badly. As we cleaned, we found pretty much everything was coated with a yellow sheen. And the new paint wasn't even a remediation job; it looks like it wasn't even primed. We've kept cleaning and replacing what we can--all new door hardware, ceiling fans, light fixtures...

    Anyhow, I'm thinking about trying an ozone generator. I've read what the internet has to say about this, and it seems worth trying, although there are a couple posts on Reddit and some weirdo website where people claim that using an ozone generator caused everything made of a synthetic material to break down and destroy their lives by emitting VOCs in perpetuity. On the other hand, it seems to be a standard practice for hotels, apartments, landlords, and car dealers. Obviously, I'm now fixated on the Reddit crazies. But we'll still give it a try, I think.

    I'm weighing renting a bigass unit that, according to the manual, should take ~2 hours for our small house, and then running it for the full 12-hour timer while me, wife, and cat hang out at a doubletree, and letting it sit for another 10-12 hours before coming back and opening all the windows. Or, I'm also thinking about buying a smaller unit from Home Depot or whatever, and ramping up.

    If anyone has experience, I'm wondering mostly:

    1. Will it work?

    2. Should I go big or go home, blast the rental for 12 hours, or try to step up?

    3. Does it leave a stink afterwards, for how long, did it last forever and destroy your life?

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Do not do that amateur style. Consult a professional, at a minimum.

    We live off oxygen and it's poison, even to ourselves. Ozone is O3 instead of O2 and is way more fucking reactive, up to and including fucking up your lungs if you inhale it. I've only ever worked with ozone generators within chemical fume hoods, the stuff is definitely hazardous and you don't want to come out of this with a permanent breathing problem (or worse). Not to mention it could damage a lot of unprotected things.

    And yeah, ozone definitely has a smell. If you've ever been near freshly-burnt electronics, some of the smell is ozone. We also get ozone every lightning strike, where the bolt energizes Oxygen molecules enough to allow an unstable bonding of molecules..

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    JusticeJustice Registered User regular
    Right, the plan would be to run it while we're gone, it stops per its timer, we wait more hours, then we return home and vent the place.

    Nobody's huffing ozone.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    That's good, but I mean definitely consult with a real professional about the potential hazards. Even without people breathing it, ozone is highly reactive and using it in the concentration needed to remove smoke stink might be asking for unexpected damage to the house. I wouldn't expect the ozone smell to last but again, that's something a professional would know.

    Additionally, while it does seem hotels use ozone to clear smoke smell, they're using it after somebody has been in a room for a matter of days. The smoke hasn't settled in and is on all the surfaces and in the air, which is very different from a house full of carpets and furniture that have soaked up the smoke over many years.

    But ultimately, this is something potentially hazardous enough that at least talking to a real professional should be the first objective in the list.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    The real source is the tar coating emitting the smell. If you're not cleaning or removing the tar, the smell will come back.

    I know you said you're doing just that, although gradually.

    You may also want to check your ductwork and possibly insulation. Insulation less so, but don't be surprised if you continue to find discolored fuzz near outlets and such.

    This may sound crazy, but if you have any hardwood flooring, there may be a coating of tar on the top finish

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    SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Also, if the walls and trim weren't cleaned and sealed properly prior to that paint job, you'll have smoke stains and smells leaching through the paint for years. It really needs a smoke sealant applied first and then a full repaint. And did the carpet replacement include the pad? If they cheaped out and didn't do both you'd still have smell coming up from the pad. All the HVAC ducting will need cleaned as well. A remediation service would be able to do that stuff as well as the ozone treatments.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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    jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    Mugsley wrote: »
    The real source is the tar coating emitting the smell. If you're not cleaning or removing the tar, the smell will come back.

    I know you said you're doing just that, although gradually.

    You may also want to check your ductwork and possibly insulation. Insulation less so, but don't be surprised if you continue to find discolored fuzz near outlets and such.

    This may sound crazy, but if you have any hardwood flooring, there may be a coating of tar on the top finish

    100% this.

    I'd recommend two coats of Kilz and then a repaint on every surface. Replace any carpeting/pads/soft goods (and then kilz the subfloor) that came with the house. get your vents professionally steam cleaned.

    i know this is not cheap, but it's really the only way to eliminate the smell for good without pulling down sheetrock.

    jmcdonald on
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    N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    I’m going to second the previous posters here. Aside from any safety concerns wrangling an ozone machine, that’s not going to solve your problem. Your problem isn’t the smell—your problem is the residue. And unless you remediate the smoking residue, you’ll continue fighting the smoke smell battle in the future.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    The real source is the tar coating emitting the smell. If you're not cleaning or removing the tar, the smell will come back.

    I know you said you're doing just that, although gradually.

    You may also want to check your ductwork and possibly insulation. Insulation less so, but don't be surprised if you continue to find discolored fuzz near outlets and such.

    This may sound crazy, but if you have any hardwood flooring, there may be a coating of tar on the top finish

    100% this.

    I'd recommend two coats of Kilz and then a repaint on every surface. Replace any carpeting/pads/soft goods (and then kilz the subfloor) that came with the house. get your vents professionally steam cleaned.

    i know this is not cheap, but it's really the only way to eliminate the smell for good without pulling down sheetrock.

    Kilz is amazing stuff. Our house smelled like cigarettes when we bought it, but two coats of the stuff damn near eliminated the smell entirely.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    I can confirm through real world testing mine was rated to -3 and froze at -5 and I had to use a heater to thaw it, however I didn't have a cover on the outside fan so the snow had frozen it. It worked in -5 once I thawed it

    are YOU on the beer list?
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    JusticeJustice Registered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    I can confirm through real world testing mine was rated to -3 and froze at -5 and I had to use a heater to thaw it, however I didn't have a cover on the outside fan so the snow had frozen it. It worked in -5 once I thawed it

    Can I ask how much yours cost? Did you have any trouble finding someone who worked with heat pumps?

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    SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    That's why if you live in a climate that cold, you make sure your unit has resistance electric backup heat. Doesn't require the heat pump itself to be working for that.

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    SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    That's why if you live in a climate that cold, you make sure your unit has resistance electric backup heat. Doesn't require the heat pump itself to be working for that.

    I spent the entire month of February running on emergency electric heat waiting on a replacement after the compressor died in mine and other than the higher bills, you wouldn't have noticed it was broken.

    But the low temperature operational claims I don't believe are referring to the emergency heat, but the normal operation of the heat pump. The system will just automatically switch over to electric supplemental/emergency heat when the temp gets too low for the heat pump to work. It's just that the newer designs work down to a lower temp so you will be running on supplemental heat less often, saving you money.

    SiliconStew on
    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
  • Options
    SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    That's why if you live in a climate that cold, you make sure your unit has resistance electric backup heat. Doesn't require the heat pump itself to be working for that.

    I spent the entire month of February running on emergency electric heat waiting on a replacement after the compressor died in mine and other than the higher bills, you wouldn't have noticed it was broken.

    But the low temperature operational claims I don't believe are referring to the emergency heat, but the normal operation of the heat pump. The system will just automatically switch over to electric supplemental/emergency heat when the temp gets too low for the heat pump to work. It's just that the newer designs work down to a lower temp so you will be running on supplemental heat less often, saving you money.

    More that, as I understand it, the backup heating options are often areas omitted or scrimped on, so that when they are needed in those absolute worse case scenarios (below freezing for a prolonged time in Texas, etc), those people are kind of screwed.

  • Options
    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    That's why if you live in a climate that cold, you make sure your unit has resistance electric backup heat. Doesn't require the heat pump itself to be working for that.

    I spent the entire month of February running on emergency electric heat waiting on a replacement after the compressor died in mine and other than the higher bills, you wouldn't have noticed it was broken.

    But the low temperature operational claims I don't believe are referring to the emergency heat, but the normal operation of the heat pump. The system will just automatically switch over to electric supplemental/emergency heat when the temp gets too low for the heat pump to work. It's just that the newer designs work down to a lower temp so you will be running on supplemental heat less often, saving you money.

    It also depends on how low, as in the deep negatives some areas get to, the resistive heating may not be enough.

  • Options
    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    when our power went out this last winter i was so glad for our gas fireplace that had a battery starter. Everyone that lives in not arizona* should have some sort of backup plan.

    *i'm sure there are a few other places and i know even in AZ it can get cold in some parts but having two siblings live there always cracks me up when their bottoming out at like 55F

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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Justice wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Justice wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Question for anyone who has done a recent whole house heat pump only installation in a northern/colder climate.

    Did your annual energy bills go up? How much?

    Based on a couple of quotes, the mixed fuel system and the heat pump only system are the same price after rebates to install. So it’s largely a question of expected monthly bills.

    We're in a cold climate, and we got three quotes for a heat pump system. I also asked about this when we had a guy from a fourth HVAC company do an AC check/maintenance.

    All of them told us we would need to retain our existing furnace because the heat pump wouldn't work well enough when temperatures go significantly below freezing. They pitched the heat pump as a way to make the furnace work less, but not to replace it.

    The exception seems to be these "split" systems, but I only know about the DIY mini split and ductless systems. Nobody tried selling us one. Basically, we wanted to buy a pure heat pump system, and nobody had one to offer.

    This makes me feel a little crazy, because our local newspaper had some article about how new technology allowed heat pump systems to work even in extreme cold.

    Yeah I've been reading up on the new heatpumps and how statistically unless you are in northern Minnesota/Dakotas, they can be enough to be your full time heat. For the 1-5 days a year it gets below -5F they should have resistive heat backups, which while expensive at that time, the rest of the year savings make up for it. I'm doing a large renovation in ~2 years and will be looking into replacing my entire HVAC with heat pumps for my home here in Chicago.

    Really hope that we can find someone with the experience in these specific cold-weather heatpumps necessary.

    Mitsubishi Electric has a newer line of heat pumps with "hyper heat" that is supposed to still work at or near capacity to -5 and can operate at -18. I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar lines, or will soon.

    Houses should really only be designed for 99.6% of the expected temperatures at most, anyway. I think the 99% degree day limit is probably more suitable for most people anyway. -5 is enough for places outside of Alaska, North Dakota, Minnesota and a few other places.

    I know they claim that but I absolutely don't trust them more than I trust dealing with frozen pipes bursting being a god damned nightmare :tongue:

    I can confirm through real world testing mine was rated to -3 and froze at -5 and I had to use a heater to thaw it, however I didn't have a cover on the outside fan so the snow had frozen it. It worked in -5 once I thawed it

    Can I ask how much yours cost? Did you have any trouble finding someone who worked with heat pumps?

    sorry, it was a mini split, not a heat pump. It's just also Mitsubishi with the same tolerances and we were talking about them earlier. I should have clarified.

    are YOU on the beer list?
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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    We decided to go with the mixed system to replace our existing but expiring central hvac.

    Just not ready to risk it, here, yet, with our not especially well insulated house.

    Very close decision for us though. The incentives make the prices of a heat pump only basically equal to a mixed system or even a traditional furnace and ac system.

    VishNub on
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    SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    One of my big reasons to want to eventually go full heat pump only is to just get rid of my gas bill entirely (as well as get solar eventually). My gas bill has more than doubled over the last two years alone. I'm now paying $80/mo in July, and the only current gas usage we have is hot water heater and stove. The inflation on the near dozen assorted service fees and delivery charges is insane.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    One of my big reasons to want to eventually go full heat pump only is to just get rid of my gas bill entirely (as well as get solar eventually). My gas bill has more than doubled over the last two years alone. I'm now paying $80/mo in July, and the only current gas usage we have is hot water heater and stove. The inflation on the near dozen assorted service fees and delivery charges is insane.

    Yep, unless you're on the top layer of states in the US or in Canada, I wouldn't hesitate to go full heat-pump, as most of the shortcomings or risk can be well mitigated with proper insulation. I'm in NH, where it does get fuck-off cold pretty regularly, but even going 20-30 miles south I'd be comfortable with it as the low temps ramp off pretty quickly.

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    SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    schuss wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    One of my big reasons to want to eventually go full heat pump only is to just get rid of my gas bill entirely (as well as get solar eventually). My gas bill has more than doubled over the last two years alone. I'm now paying $80/mo in July, and the only current gas usage we have is hot water heater and stove. The inflation on the near dozen assorted service fees and delivery charges is insane.

    Yep, unless you're on the top layer of states in the US or in Canada, I wouldn't hesitate to go full heat-pump, as most of the shortcomings or risk can be well mitigated with proper insulation. I'm in NH, where it does get fuck-off cold pretty regularly, but even going 20-30 miles south I'd be comfortable with it as the low temps ramp off pretty quickly.

    Yeah, I'm in Chicago, which still can hit -5-10 F for a week or two at a time, but average monthly lows usually only bottom out in the low 20s. Insulation though, on the other hand, is not in a ideal space in my 122 year old home... I can't just do blown in like most people as these old homes were designed to breathe, and blown in cellulose usually just ends up rotting in the walls due to lack of air sealing and vapor barriers.

    Simpsonia on
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    Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Does anybody have any tips for finding contractors? I'm ready to start renovating my garage into a livable space but I'm striking out with every company. Is summer a lousy time to be reaching out? Should I be contacting companies in the winter to line up work for next summer?

    I have read that since Covid anybody who works in construction has all the work they want, so maybe that's a factor.

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    Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    I’ve had pretty decent luck with yelp

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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    StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    Does anybody have any tips for finding contractors? I'm ready to start renovating my garage into a livable space but I'm striking out with every company. Is summer a lousy time to be reaching out? Should I be contacting companies in the winter to line up work for next summer?

    I have read that since Covid anybody who works in construction has all the work they want, so maybe that's a factor.

    It's a nightmare where we are - small county where no one wants to work on anything but the seasonal McMansions out on the coast or on people's personal Yellowstones for big $$$ projects, so normal houses with normal locals get the C grade tradespeople.

    That said, if your house had a previous owner, check for any work they had done and call those folks back (assuming the work wasn't shit). Barring that, we stalk our neighborhood for work being done and ask directly from there.

    In my experience, stuff like Angie's List, which used to have the tiniest bit of usefulness, it now utter garbage and should not be trusted (but that may be regional as well!).

    Straygatsby on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Oh hey found a “whoopsie” in the way my house was built. Probably shouldn’t have a gutter just jammed into the side of the house, that might cause some issues…

    This isn’t good, lol

    0vd0hpa9zorp.jpeg
    4bwprxas8sxs.jpeg

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Yikes. That looks like it's not going to be quick, easy, or cheap to fix.

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    JusticeJustice Registered User regular
    Is this a relatively new development? Check your neighbors' houses. If enough of you have gutters crashing into your walls, you can maybe threaten the developer into fixing it. Even if you need to go splitsies on a lawyer letter, might be the more economical route.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    This was all built in 1980

    They are redoing all the stucco in that area highlighted in yellow, including an expected replacement of the wall (chimney?) studs behind it

    On the other side further up, they need to replace all the trim boards because someone put the wrong type of chimney cap on and it just dribbles water down

    So, we had builders that just jammed a gutter into the side of the house and put a non-pitched chimney cap on, great job everyone

    Captain Inertia on
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited July 2023
    That's low-key one of the craziest lazy cut corners I've ever seen on a house, it's like installing a self destruct device and arming it before you even hand the house over.

    Peen on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    myf1c26iy9rg.png

    This is the trim on the other side that needs replacing…..this is the easy/cheap fix!!!

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Jesus Christ. Time to cover that up with some trim, pretend it doesn't exist, and sell the place before the market really cools.
    don't do this
    but lest

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    That's low-key one of the craziest lazy cut corners I've ever seen on a house, it's like installing a self destruct device and arming it before you even hand the house over.

    "Sure, we could take 5 extra minutes to remove the gutter before applying the stucco. But we could also just not do that and have 5 extra minutes of beer drinkin time."

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Costco has 3 different sized Calphalon Tri-ply uncoated skillets for $60 US. I converted to Tri-ply pots and pans about 6 or 7 years ago and I fucking love mine. I'm going to grab some more.

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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    My wife wants the water closet insulated that shares an internal wall with the upstairs hallway (you can hear, and speak, with people while on the commode and it bothers her). It is fairly small and isn't very visible so I'm thinking adding insulation is worth having to patch it, and the scale of it makes it fairly DIY friendly. Is it as simple as renting an insulation blower at Home Depot and patching some holes afterwards? Like it doesn't have to even be awesome thermally, just trying to dampen sound without needing to resort to anything excessive like sound dampening glue on extra sheets of whatever. Looks like the machine is $175 to rent and $15 each bag of cellulose. If that is stupid for reasons I'm unaware of I could probably get away with cutting a stripe of drywall out and feeding in bats of insulation but that sounds more fraught to me.

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    My wife wants the water closet insulated that shares an internal wall with the upstairs hallway (you can hear, and speak, with people while on the commode and it bothers her). It is fairly small and isn't very visible so I'm thinking adding insulation is worth having to patch it, and the scale of it makes it fairly DIY friendly. Is it as simple as renting an insulation blower at Home Depot and patching some holes afterwards? Like it doesn't have to even be awesome thermally, just trying to dampen sound without needing to resort to anything excessive like sound dampening glue on extra sheets of whatever. Looks like the machine is $175 to rent and $15 each bag of cellulose. If that is stupid for reasons I'm unaware of I could probably get away with cutting a stripe of drywall out and feeding in bats of insulation but that sounds more fraught to me.

    That's probably not going to quieten it enough. If you're going to this much effort, maybe consider just resheeting it with a layer of mass loaded vinyl over the studs + acoustic rated batts?

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    evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    First step should be to put your ear to the wall and see if there are any gaps. Have some sound in the hallway, and just try to figure out where the sound is leaking through. It might be something stupid like there being an outlet on the wall, so there's an actual gap in the sheetrock which goes over to the toilet paper holder which creates another gap in the sheetrock.

This discussion has been closed.