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The Resurgance of Russia

RanxRanx Registered User regular
edited June 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
After the USSR fell, Capitalist Russia became for all purposes a lapdog to the United States. Throughout the reign of Yeltsin, this feeling continued.
When Putin came into power around 2000, the feeling of subservience was still present. However, in the past few years, Russia has been guilty of saber-rattling. It is assumed that they had a part in the poisoning of the Ukrainian leadership candidate.
They poisoned a defected KGB agent. Putin has been slowly taking away the rights and liberties of people.
Putin has stated that he would like Russia to retake its former glory, sans communism.
Recently, Russia has developed missiles that could destroy US defense systems.
I'm personally worried about the resurgence or a powerful Russia, especially if the current administration does not take steps to prepare for it.

Ranx on
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Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Russia's government has been headed by the KGB.

    It's sort of to be expected.

    The good news?

    They are as subtle as epileptic hippos.

    Incenjucar on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    From what I understand, investors prefer new, relatively stable and oppressive Russia to the young madhouse.

    One of my best friends just moved over there, and assures me that she'll be fine. If Russia's policies can begin to lift people out of poverty, I think a resurgent Russian state might not be all that bad, as with money and globalization comes liberalization. It will just take time. I'm concerned about the interim, but not too concerned.

    Loren Michael on
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  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    People may have felt that Russia was an American lapdog, but I don't think that was actually the case.

    Shinto on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    "Resurgence"

    The Cat on
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  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    If Putin can make the economy work, I doubt anyone will give a damn about his authoritarian behavior. Hopefully they'll manage to keep their democracy intact. (Well, what's left of it...)

    Professor Phobos on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited June 2007
    It makes me happy when I read in American news that they consider Russia to be ruled by an aggressive madman with lots of nukes.

    Echo on
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Well, it makes me happy that you can read that same thing about our own leader. Unfortunately for Russians, they are running dry on that service.

    Hoz on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Hoz wrote: »
    Well, it makes me happy that you can read that same thing about our own leader. Unfortunately for Russians, they are running dry on that service.

    Sigged.

    Shinto on
  • ColdredColdred Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Nato condemns Putin missile vow
    Russia's threat to aim weapons at Europe if the US sets up a missile defence shield there was "unhelpful and unwelcome", Nato has said.

    The US says it wants missile defence in eastern Europe to counter threats from states like Iran and North Korea.

    On Sunday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Iran was not a threat to the US, hinting that Russia was the target.

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy has said he will have "frank" talks with Mr Putin this week about the threat.

    Great, just great. The US sets up missile defence bases to protect itself from "Rogue States" or at least so it says and Russia starts targeting Europe. "Unhelpful and unwelcome" is a bit of an understatement really.

    Coldred on
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  • SonosSonos Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    People may have felt that Russia was an American lapdog, but I don't think that was actually the case.

    Agreed. The country with the second most powerful military on earth is no one's lapdog.

    Sonos on
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  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    I tend to get most of my Russia-related news from the eXile, so my take on matters there are a little more skewed.

    From what I've seen the country seems to be a whipping boy for the American media. The articles make compelling arguments, at any rate.

    Rust on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Is Putin really letting the general people live a better life? From what I understand, the guys at the very top of energy conglomerates like Gazprom suck up most of the money being generated by their companies. While I guess that is creating a very boisterous and extravagant upper class in Russia, it doesn't do much to change American's view of the country of being a place where the proletariat is very poorly treated.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • RoanthRoanth Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Is Putin really letting the general people live a better life? From what I understand, the guys at the very top of energy conglomerates like Gazprom suck up most of the money being generated by their companies. While I guess that is creating a very boisterous and extravagant upper class in Russia, it doesn't do much to change American's view of the country of being a place where the proletariat is very poorly treated.

    Oh, proletariat. When will you ever win?

    Roanth on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Coldred wrote: »
    "Unhelpful and unwelcome" is a bit of an understatement really.

    At this level of threatened violence, "Bitch, I will fuck your shit up!" actually sounds less scary.
    While I guess that is creating a very boisterous and extravagant upper class in Russia, it doesn't do much to change American's view of the country of being a place where the proletariat is very poorly treated.
    It makes me happy when I read in American news that they consider Russia to be ruled by an aggressive madman with lots of nukes.

    Given how easily you could swap the words Russia and America here, Bush and Putin really should get on a lot better.

    Gorak on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I'm just saying that I did a much better job. Those five year plans were gold. Got rid of 16 million class enemies while I was at it. And by class enemies I mean Jews.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Putin has stated that he would like Russia to retake its former glory, sans communism.
    It's not like being ruled by a man who feeds polonium-210 to political opponents is much different.

    Azio on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I'm just saying that I did a much better job. Those five year plans were gold. Got rid of 16 million class enemies while I was at it. And by class enemies I mean Jews.

    You beat those Germans hands down with their paltry 6 million. Well done comrade.

    Gorak on
  • RoanthRoanth Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I'm just saying that I did a much better job. Those five year plans were gold. Got rid of 16 million class enemies while I was at it. And by class enemies I mean Jews.

    I demand you change your sig to rotating Yakov Smirnoff joke's!

    Roanth on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Roanth wrote: »
    I'm just saying that I did a much better job. Those five year plans were gold. Got rid of 16 million class enemies while I was at it. And by class enemies I mean Jews.

    I demand you change your sig to rotating Yakov Smirnoff joke's!

    Yes!

    Gorak on
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Azio wrote: »
    Putin has stated that he would like Russia to retake its former glory, sans communism.
    It's not like being ruled by a man who feeds polonium-210 to political opponents is much different.

    Son of a bitch, that wasn't him. It makes no sense for it to be him.

    Rust on
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I thought the missile shield thing was shot down a while ago as being a pointless waste of cash that would work and lead to escalation?
    Also, would have thought the US could put this sort of thing down in EU territory without more of a fuss being kicked up about it (and not just by Russia).

    Tastyfish on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I thought the missile shield thing was shot down a while ago as being a pointless waste of cash that would work and lead to escalation?
    Also, would have thought the US could put this sort of thing down in EU territory without more of a fuss being kicked up about it (and not just by Russia).

    Nah, it's still a bit issue between Canada and the US. The US keeps wanting other countries to put their missile defenses up at the cost of their Land and money in favor of diplomatic relations.

    DanHibiki on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I thought the missile shield thing was shot down a while ago as being a pointless waste of cash that would work and lead to escalation?
    Also, would have thought the US could put this sort of thing down in EU territory without more of a fuss being kicked up about it (and not just by Russia).

    Gore didn't get elected. That was a Saturday Night Live intro sketch.

    Loren Michael on
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  • RanxRanx Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Rust wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Putin has stated that he would like Russia to retake its former glory, sans communism.
    It's not like being ruled by a man who feeds polonium-210 to political opponents is much different.

    Son of a bitch, that wasn't him. It makes no sense for it to be him.

    Hmm, I could have sworn I read somewhere that Putin had said something along those lines. I could be wrong though.
    I'm personally very curious as to whether Putin will try to retain his power after his term ends.

    EDIT: Never mind Rust, I thought you were talking about the sans communism thing.

    Ranx on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I thought the missile shield thing was shot down a while ago as being a pointless waste of cash that would work and lead to escalation?

    That's practically a garuantee that the pentagon will fund it.
    Also, would have thought the US could put this sort of thing down in EU territory without more of a fuss being kicked up about it (and not just by Russia).

    There has been. Just not among politicians.

    Gorak on
  • BernardBernoulliBernardBernoulli Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Rust wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    It's not like being ruled by a man who feeds polonium-210 to political opponents is much different.

    Son of a bitch, that wasn't him. It makes no sense for it to be him.

    You don't think Russia killed him? Why'd you say that?

    Admittedly, it seems odd they'd bother, but it's fairly apparent they'd be willing if they felt they had cause, we might not know what that cause is

    Who else would've cared that much? Someone wanting to make a martyr? MI6? Russia was only recently accusing MI6 of spying in their territory by the evil, evil NGOs who want anarchy, so any accusations from them are sort of dodgy

    BernardBernoulli on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I know, how dare Russia try to escalate a nuclear arms race by specifically designing nukes for getting through the concrete/steel shell around a missile silo... oh, wait, I mean by specifically designing nukes for avoiding a missile defense system?!

    Thanatos on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    From what I understand, investors prefer new, relatively stable and oppressive Russia to the young madhouse.

    One of my best friends just moved over there, and assures me that she'll be fine. If Russia's policies can begin to lift people out of poverty, I think a resurgent Russian state might not be all that bad, as with money and globalization comes liberalization. It will just take time. I'm concerned about the interim, but not too concerned.
    Considering that Russia's wealth is derived largely from oil, the money-liberalism connection could be broken.
    Simply enough, Russia could say to humanitarians "Forget you, we have the oil money."

    Picardathon on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Admittedly, it seems odd they'd bother, but it's fairly apparent they'd be willing if they felt they had cause, we might not know what that cause is.

    I'd have thought Berezovsky would have been the more obvious target. Litvinenko was a harsh critic of Putin, but Berezovsky wants to be a competitor.

    Either way, I agree that it's pretty naive to say, "They just wouldn't."

    Gorak on
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Gorak wrote: »
    Admittedly, it seems odd they'd bother, but it's fairly apparent they'd be willing if they felt they had cause, we might not know what that cause is.

    I'd have thought Berezovsky would have been the more obvious target. Litvinenko was a harsh critic of Putin, but Berezovsky wants to be a competitor.

    Either way, I agree that it's pretty naive to say, "They just wouldn't."

    Oh, I'm going to feel like entropykid right here.

    But, ah-HA!
    It's true that Litvinenko strongly attacked of Putin's government. But the real question is how significant his criticism really was. The truth is that hardly anybody remembered Litvinenko over the past three or four years. In early 2000's, after defecting and coming to London, he published two books, both fairly short ones, blaming the Russian security services and the government for corruption, killing their own people, and pretty much every imaginable mortal sin. The first book was called The FSB Blows Up Russia, which alleged that the terrible apartment bombings in Moscow and several other cities in September 1999, at the very beginning of the Putin era, were the work of the Russian secret service and not Chechen terrorists. The book had very little in terms of new revelations, other than reiterating existing conspiracy theories about those apartment bombings, along with the well-known contradictions of the official version. Outside of the circle of the hard-core "democratic opposition" it was greeted mostly with yawns by Russia's chattering classes. It was published in New York and was (and still is) easily available on the web, and was sold in several bookstores in Moscow.
    One thing is practically certain in Litvinenko's case: he wasn't killed for something that he knew and was about to reveal. He had many years (and a lot of money put in by Berezovsky in his anti-Putin crusade) to make any sensational revelations he could, and the results were underwhelming. His murder could be revenge, of course, but was more likely a message. The use of an outlandishly exotic material -- the radioactive polonium -- also points in this direction. Damn, could it possibly be any more dramatic? Who committed it and who was the target? It is an almost perfect Agatha Christie detective story: so many possible suspects, so many motives, and in each case so many factors both for and against.
    In Russia by far the most popular is an opposite conspiracy -- that Litvinenko (and perhaps Politkovskaya) were killed by [exile Russian oligarch Boris] Berezovsky's agents to discredit Putin. It is much more logical than the version implicating Putin -- at least this has direct and major benefits to the exiled oligarch, striking hard at Putin's reputation, while suffering little losses, since both Politkovskaya and Litvinenko were of limited future use, aside from their martyrdom.

    Those are a few of the more salient quotes - I don't really have much experience with funneling links like this to the general populace. But the whole article's a good read nonetheless. It covers Litvinenko's career in fairly thorough detail as well as showing its relative irrelevance to the Putin regime, and points out a fewmore odd coincidences between the poisoning and Politkovskaya's murder - and not aluminum-foil coincidences either, but real eyebrow-raisers.

    Saying that a major political figure like Putin would poison someone with radioactive polonium of all things, especially someone who didn't really warrant much attention in the first place, seems a little bit more naive than assuming otherwise. It'd be a complete Bond-villain move, idiotic as well as unnecessarily grandiose. I like getting my news from the eXile because they're across-the-board cynics, and of course guys like that enjoy trying to get to the truth because they think it'd be way more grisly than any other media's fabrications.

    Rust on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Rust wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Putin has stated that he would like Russia to retake its former glory, sans communism.
    It's not like being ruled by a man who feeds polonium-210 to political opponents is much different.

    Son of a bitch, that wasn't him. It makes no sense for it to be him.
    What? Litvinenko was poisoned with a massive dose of polonium, a substance which comes almost exclusively from certain Russian nuclear reactors. The quantity used could only have realistically come from the Russian government. Unless of course one were to purchase a hundred or so static eliminators at $71 each, and devise some method of separating the polonium from each static eliminator without poisoning oneself in the process.

    It is practically inarguable that Putin was behind it.

    Azio on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The good news: We are one step closer to "Fuck the Oil-Funded Terrorists!" not having any race cards against it.

    Incenjucar on
  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Endomatic on
  • FarseerBaradasFarseerBaradas Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Endomatic wrote: »
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Hey, I take offense at that.

    When our stuff fails, it at least fails spectacularly.

    challenger.explosion.lg.jpg

    FarseerBaradas on
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  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Endomatic wrote: »
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Fuck you too?

    Shinto on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I'm just saying that I did a much better job. Those five year plans were gold. Got rid of 16 million class enemies while I was at it. And by class enemies I mean Jews.
    I really shouldn't laugh at this.
    Being Jewish makes it more reprehensible.

    Picardathon on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Maybe he'll take up murdering people with radioactive materials as a fulltime job

    nexuscrawler on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Endomatic wrote: »
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Hey, I take offense at that.

    When our stuff fails, it at least fails spectacularly.

    challenger.explosion.lg.jpg

    Man, anti semite jokes and the challenger?
    You guys want me to go to hell.
    As an American I understand that we are really bad allies to have. Thats why Tony Blair is popular here, he actually respected Britain-US relations to go with us into a stupid, misguided war.

    Picardathon on
  • tachyontachyon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Endomatic wrote: »
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Why the fuck would you care that the US blows millions upon millions on a system that may knock down a rogue missile aimed at North America? That's like saying 'fuck the US military, they are incompetent and may fail we we need them most" If we are protecting your ass, what does it matter? If you really feel that way, lobby you're govt. for a missile shield, or better defenses, since the US will fuck it up anyway.

    tachyon on
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    tachyon wrote: »
    Endomatic wrote: »
    As a Canadian, I don't want any bullshit American shields. The thing will fail when we need it most, just like all American made things.

    So you have to understand my country's reluctance.

    You're not an easy country to be friends with US.

    Why the fuck would you care that the US blows millions upon millions on a system that may knock down a rogue missile aimed at North America? That's like saying 'fuck the US military, they are incompetent and may fail we we need them most" If we are protecting your ass, what does it matter? If you really feel that way, lobby you're govt. for a missile shield, or better defenses, since the US will fuck it up anyway.


    What do you think the relative chances of missles being aimed at Canada actually are compared to the US?

    Seriously.

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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