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On the topic of things one might not remember, if my memory isn’t failing me isn’t Kingdom Come Deliverance the game where the creative director and writer are openly pro-gamer gate and wore a shirt to a game conference with a known white supremacist on it? On top of their game purporting to be set in a historical period but whitewashing the heck out of that historical period?
Can I get more information about the whitewashing and other things? I literally know nothing, it was a 15 buck game and nobody had said anything about this game having problems of any kind.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
However, since long before the game came out, there’s been debate about exactly which elements of history the game’s developers prioritized. Much of that debate concerned Warhorse’s 2014 and 2015 proclamations that the game wouldn’t contain people of color because, according to director Daniel Vávra, “there were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period.” People then pointed to historical texts and art that suggested, actually, there might have been Moors in the region, as they were definitely present in Europe at the time. It’s hard to say definitively one way or another whether they ended up in the sorts of backwoods towns that dot Kingdom Come’s setting, or if they only appeared in major city centers. In response to the ensuing controversy around representation, Vávra, a Gamergate supporter, mocked dissenters on Twitter with, among other things, this image of Martin Lawrence in the movie Black Knight:
Since then, a schism has formed around Kingdom Come. Some are hesitant to play the game because of the views of its most visible creator and what he seems to represent, not to mention how modern day nationalistic biases might influence his team’s choice of historical sources. Vice’s video game site, Waypoint, even refused to cover the game on those grounds.
In January of this year, Vávra issued a statement retroactively re-contextualizing his stance on Gamergate, claiming that for him it’s always been about “freedom of speech and the freedom of opinion and thoughts,” rather than the clear sexism, racism, and harassment that the movement peddled in from the get-go. “I am not a friend of any kind of totalitarian rule and consider the accusation that I am a Nazi or close to any ideology that even remotely goes in that direction therefore as absurd, even personally offensive,” he added.
However, since long before the game came out, there’s been debate about exactly which elements of history the game’s developers prioritized. Much of that debate concerned Warhorse’s 2014 and 2015 proclamations that the game wouldn’t contain people of color because, according to director Daniel Vávra, “there were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period.” People then pointed to historical texts and art that suggested, actually, there might have been Moors in the region, as they were definitely present in Europe at the time. It’s hard to say definitively one way or another whether they ended up in the sorts of backwoods towns that dot Kingdom Come’s setting, or if they only appeared in major city centers. In response to the ensuing controversy around representation, Vávra, a Gamergate supporter, mocked dissenters on Twitter with, among other things, this image of Martin Lawrence in the movie Black Knight:
Since then, a schism has formed around Kingdom Come. Some are hesitant to play the game because of the views of its most visible creator and what he seems to represent, not to mention how modern day nationalistic biases might influence his team’s choice of historical sources. Vice’s video game site, Waypoint, even refused to cover the game on those grounds.
In January of this year, Vávra issued a statement retroactively re-contextualizing his stance on Gamergate, claiming that for him it’s always been about “freedom of speech and the freedom of opinion and thoughts,” rather than the clear sexism, racism, and harassment that the movement peddled in from the get-go. “I am not a friend of any kind of totalitarian rule and consider the accusation that I am a Nazi or close to any ideology that even remotely goes in that direction therefore as absurd, even personally offensive,” he added.
What muddies the water further is whose interpretation it overridingly is: creative director, writer and Warhorse co-founder Daniel Vavra's. He has been a vocal supporter of GamerGate and involved in antagonistic exchanges on Twitter (collected in a ResetEra thread). More recently, he wore the same T-shirt depicting an album cover by the band Burzum every day at Gamescom 2017 - a very visible time for him and his game. Burzum is the work of one man: Varg Vikernes, a convicted murderer and outspoken voice on racial purity and supremacy. He even identified as a Nazi for a while.
“ Vanaris Tactics is a short narrative tactical RPG experience that tells a story about refugees fleeing their occupied motherland. You lead a group of refugees looking for freedom outside the walls of Vanaris, unite your people and use tactical prowess to escape your oppressors.”
Vanaris Tactics seems neat, it also has the first three missions for free as a prologue. Game is 15 missions long so, seems like it could be fun to pick up and knock out over a weekend. Seems very FFT-esque.
+4
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I see. I will keep an eye out for that stuff, and refrain from talking about it further. Thankyou.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I see. I will keep an eye out for that stuff, and refrain from talking about it further. Thankyou.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rain on your parade and I definitely didn’t mean to imply you should stop talking about the game.
In a lot of the videogames we buy our money is going to someone shitty. I mean, look at Blizzard and we still have multiple threads dedicated to Blizzard games. I try to stay informed but we all miss things and also it’s up to each individual to decide if they are okay with playing a game or not.
Kingdom Come is just one that sticks out to me because I am a historical arms and armor and history guy. This game SHOULD have been my jam. Hell I broke my ankle fighting with a kriegmesser which is the type of weird weapon that would end up in a game like Kingdom Come. So the stuff around it sticks in my craw in particular.
But none of this should stop you from enjoying a thing you already bought.
yeah once someone hits the point of wearing a Varg Vikernes shirt around they're really just showing off — that guy is like, Patient Zero for all the Problematic white power shit in the metal community, not to mention he's been developing his own shitty tabletop game based on "traditional" values
also from a historical standpoint, I feel like Kingdom Come even missed out on a lot of the well-documented historical flavor that made Bohemia become a stereotype for eclecticism hundreds of years later, so even from a "white"-centric historical perspective it falls short
I see. I will keep an eye out for that stuff, and refrain from talking about it further. Thankyou.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rain on your parade and I definitely didn’t mean to imply you should stop talking about the game.
In a lot of the videogames we buy our money is going to someone shitty. I mean, look at Blizzard and we still have multiple threads dedicated to Blizzard games. I try to stay informed but we all miss things and also it’s up to each individual to decide if they are okay with playing a game or not.
Kingdom Come is just one that sticks out to me because I am a historical arms and armor and history guy. This game SHOULD have been my jam. Hell I broke my ankle fighting with a kriegmesser which is the type of weird weapon that would end up in a game like Kingdom Come. So the stuff around it sticks in my craw in particular.
But none of this should stop you from enjoying a thing you already bought.
I am definitely having fun and I do like the historical period a lot, I'll just keep these things in mind while I play, and pay attention to how things are talked about. I know a lot about the historical period, and I'm not super fussed about the depictions of life in the game. But that director. Woof. I'm glad it was only 15 dollars.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
it's always very telling what particular things people are very fixated on historical accuracy with
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2022
I've mostly just found bread, cheese, apples and lentils so far. I don't know anything about apples historically, but potatos didn't even rock up until like a century later right? Since they're native to the americas. And carrots existed but were purple or some shit.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2022
Purple carrots are crazy btw you cut them and they bleed a juice that looks almost red it's like you are butchering an animal but it's just a carrot.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
+7
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
it's always very telling what particular things people are very fixated on historical accuracy with
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
They don't even care about accuracy with black people, the game's representation of Europe is completely ahistorical.
+7
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
it's always very telling what particular things people are very fixated on historical accuracy with
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
They don't even care about accuracy with black people, the game's representation of Europe is completely ahistorical.
No "accuracy with black people" here means "not putting any black people in"
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
it's always very telling what particular things people are very fixated on historical accuracy with
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
They don't even care about accuracy with black people, the game's representation of Europe is completely ahistorical.
I used quotation marks for a REASON, CUR!!!
+7
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
it's always very telling what particular things people are very fixated on historical accuracy with
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
How to Buy and Craft Potions in Kingdom Come: Deliverance
There are many different kinds of potions in Kingdom Come, but the most useful for healing is the Marigold Concoction. When you take this potion, it will regen your health over a short amount of time. Unfortunately, you can’t use it during battle, so if you’re wounded, you’ll either have to run away or try and kill your enemy before they can finish you off.
To find Marigold Concoction for purchase, you can approach any alchemist, barmaid, or innkeeper. Any of these merchants should have at least a few of these potions in stock, though they’re on the expensive side.
You’re best off purchasing the Marigold Concoction recipe from the alchemist in Rattay early on. The potion isn’t difficult to make, and the ingredients are easy to find and cheap to buy. By taking the time out to brew your own, you can make sure you have a large supply and save quite a bit of Groschen in the process.
yeah the game immediately veers into fantasy magical potions, so it's not like the realism really holds up under any scrutiny
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2022
I just checked the wiki to see what other foods they have and there are no potatoes in this game, and the carrots are white now (or at least their icon is). I notice they have not added any moors tho, funny that.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
“Over the last 28 years we have built an incredibly strong business, partnering with many of the best-known names in the industry. Since joining the Embracer Group in 2018, growth has accelerated and we have become increasingly diversified. To reflect the evolving nature of our business in terms not only of content, but also of geography, as we continue our expansion across the globe, we have chosen our new name to better portray who we are and the journey we are taking.
“Our new name offers us the opportunity to build on our rich history as a publishing partner and our outstanding, constantly growing network of world-class development studios and creative people, to keep delivering premium service to our partners, to highlight our ambition as a global player within the entertainment industry but also to reinvent ourselves. Our vision is to enable and inspire our worldwide teams and partners, unlocking their full potential.
“Our industry is incredibly dynamic, the expectations of our customers and our partners are continually evolving, and we must recognize this. Relying on our strong foundation whilst embracing change will deliver something new, something better. As PLAION, we’re building on our years of success while striving for more, much more. PLAION is a promise to deliver outstanding entertainment to our customers. I’m happy and proud to continue our journey as PLAION.”
Ok I'm not crazy. Was over here going "Wait when the hell did the Koch brothers get into video games?" Turns out it's not them at all, just a founder who had the same last name.
Ok I'm not crazy. Was over here going "Wait when the hell did the Koch brothers get into video games?" Turns out it's not them at all, just a founder who had the same last name.
if they did they absolutely would have made kingdom come
One thing that is always telling in these “historical accuracy” and PoC Representation debates is the number of people who claim to be focused just on historical accuracy equate “PoC” 1:1 with “Black”.
It usually is a good tip off to the actual focus of the person putting forth the argument.
Kingdom Come Deliverance turns up a lot. It's managed to pop up in every game pass, bundle, special etc for a while now. I don't blame anyone for not remembering the coverage of the game director going loud with their bullshit. It feels like it was forever ago now. But they keep turning up in fairly high profile specials and drops a dlc every once in a while.
+10
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Kingdom Come Deliverance turns up a lot. It's managed to pop up in every game pass, bundle, special etc for a while now. I don't blame anyone for not remembering the coverage of the game director going loud with their bullshit. It feels like it was forever ago now. But they keep turning up in fairly high profile specials and drops a dlc every once in a while.
Yeah, I mean most of this stuff happened like 8 years ago. I super don’t expect anyone to be aware of it or remember it. The only reason I remember it is because it (and other similar games) were always big talking points after practice at my historical sword fighting club. Which, ya know, makes me the niche target market for that game.
Kingdom Come Deliverance turns up a lot. It's managed to pop up in every game pass, bundle, special etc for a while now. I don't blame anyone for not remembering the coverage of the game director going loud with their bullshit. It feels like it was forever ago now. But they keep turning up in fairly high profile specials and drops a dlc every once in a while.
Yeah, I mean most of this stuff happened like 8 years ago. I super don’t expect anyone to be aware of it or remember it. The only reason I remember it is because it (and other similar games) were always big talking points after practice at my historical sword fighting club. Which, ya know, makes me the niche target market for that game.
Posts
Can I get more information about the whitewashing and other things? I literally know nothing, it was a 15 buck game and nobody had said anything about this game having problems of any kind.
https://kotaku.com/kingdom-come-owes-its-popularity-to-realism-and-conserv-1823420208
https://www.eurogamer.net/kingdom-come-deliverance-review
Vanaris Tactics seems neat, it also has the first three missions for free as a prologue. Game is 15 missions long so, seems like it could be fun to pick up and knock out over a weekend. Seems very FFT-esque.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rain on your parade and I definitely didn’t mean to imply you should stop talking about the game.
In a lot of the videogames we buy our money is going to someone shitty. I mean, look at Blizzard and we still have multiple threads dedicated to Blizzard games. I try to stay informed but we all miss things and also it’s up to each individual to decide if they are okay with playing a game or not.
Kingdom Come is just one that sticks out to me because I am a historical arms and armor and history guy. This game SHOULD have been my jam. Hell I broke my ankle fighting with a kriegmesser which is the type of weird weapon that would end up in a game like Kingdom Come. So the stuff around it sticks in my craw in particular.
But none of this should stop you from enjoying a thing you already bought.
also from a historical standpoint, I feel like Kingdom Come even missed out on a lot of the well-documented historical flavor that made Bohemia become a stereotype for eclecticism hundreds of years later, so even from a "white"-centric historical perspective it falls short
I am definitely having fun and I do like the historical period a lot, I'll just keep these things in mind while I play, and pay attention to how things are talked about. I know a lot about the historical period, and I'm not super fussed about the depictions of life in the game. But that director. Woof. I'm glad it was only 15 dollars.
game has potatoes and orange carrots for example. those things ain't there in europe at that time period. but they don't care about their "accuracy" with food. they care about their "accuracy" with black people.
Free mech diorama maker? This is a pretty clever promotion for their game.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
They don't even care about accuracy with black people, the game's representation of Europe is completely ahistorical.
No "accuracy with black people" here means "not putting any black people in"
I used quotation marks for a REASON, CUR!!!
yeah the game immediately veers into fantasy magical potions, so it's not like the realism really holds up under any scrutiny
if they did they absolutely would have made kingdom come
oh yeah name three of them
Koch classic
Diet Koch
It usually is a good tip off to the actual focus of the person putting forth the argument.
https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/free-games
Yeah, I mean most of this stuff happened like 8 years ago. I super don’t expect anyone to be aware of it or remember it. The only reason I remember it is because it (and other similar games) were always big talking points after practice at my historical sword fighting club. Which, ya know, makes me the niche target market for that game.
i remember it because dude was a shitty guy
*pant pant*
And, y'know, the guy who made Assassin's Creed
i did not know that!
Ubisoft in general
I prefer Koch Zero. Or at least I did until they fucked it up.