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Had it up to HERE with this [SCOTUS], Thread

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Posts

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Literally the law is being passed because a judge was murdered due to looking up their personal information.

    This is me being completely wrong on this one and missing the origins of the law. My bad there. If anyone wants an omelette I have some egg on my face I'd be happy to scrape off.

    That said, I'm weary of adding any protections like this that curtails the ability of the populace to protest. Or that makes who is in the judiciary and their connections less transparent. It's important to make sure government officials and their loved ones are as safe as anyone else while still being able to see if anything questionable is happening.

    Like it or not, but a government only stays one for the people if those in it are held accountable to the people. And that can't happen without transparency and the ability for people to cause disruption. Not harm, but disruption.

    No I don't.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2022
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Literally the law is being passed because a judge was murdered due to looking up their personal information.

    Information that could just as easily be gotten by following them home from work one day, correct?

    Why is easily obtainable public info not a problem when it's used to stalk, doxx, and murder people other than federal judges? And I say it's not a problem because nobody else has a bill in congress attached to the NDAA. I'm extremely concerned at the multi-tiered approach to law this country continues to take, i.e. shit is bad but we'll only try to do anything when it's one of our guys who's on the receiving end of it.

    And the judge wasn't murdered. Their son was. Not that it makes it better but if we're being pedantic then might as well be pedantic, Daniel Anderl was not a judge. When it comes to being a judge in the United States, your chances of being murdered for it are remarkably low.

    jungleroomx on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Yes but barriers to doing that kind of thing are good. The easier you make things the easier things are to do.

    And that list is not complete. Like… not even fucking close.

    And you still have not provided the case of the corrupt judge that was solved because the public could look up their home address or where their spouse worked.

    But I have shown you the case of murdered judge which occurred as a result of that information being easily accessible

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited December 2022
    Ah yes, because investigative journalism isn't legitimate unless and until the issues it exposes are "solved."

    Knowing when a conflict of interest exists in a case a federal judge doesn't recuse themselves from isn't justified unless... what? What renders that "solved?"

    DarkPrimus on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    And you still have not provided the case of the corrupt judge that was solved because the public could look up their home address or where their spouse worked.

    That's the thing, by the very nature that we know that information right now, impropriety is less likely via any avenue where that information would be relevant. It's a deterrent. It makes corruption harder and less likely to occur.

    This law, while making Judges safer from harm, also makes any corruption via those avenues viable.

    No I don't.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Ah yes, because investigative journalism isn't legitimate unless and until the issues it exposes are "solved."

    Knowing when a conflict of interest exists in a case a federal judge doesn't recuse themselves from isn't justified unless... what? What renders that "solved?"

    When a conflict of interest arises and a judge does not refuse themselves they’re subject to sanctions. And if they’re not then you’re going to do what with the information about where their spouse works? Protest outside their workplace instead of the courthouse? No. We know the only thing you can do with that information you just don’t want to admit it.

    Judges largely do refuse themselves in conflict of interests. The exception being conservative SCOTUS judges. But no one disagrees that this law is bad with regards to that. Only that it’s fine for regular ass judges.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited December 2022

    "The Wall Street Journal analyzed nearly a decade’s worth of legal and financial records and discovered 131 federal judges who unlawfully heard cases where they had a financial interest."

    Over the past several weeks, the Journal has informed these judges of their recusal violations. As a result, 56 federal judges have notified courts in 329 cases around the U.S. that they heard cases improperly and that parties to the case could ask for them to be reopened.

    (And yes, a number of these conflicts of interest involve their spouses' financial interests.)

    None of this investigation could have occurred if this law was in effect.

    DarkPrimus on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited December 2022
    “Judicial Financial disclosures” will not be effected by this law. Like… not even in a “maybe” context.

    The law is not code which is executed thoughtlessly. But through the intent and understanding of prior law. You could just read the law
    (A) IN GENERAL.—The term “data broker” means a commercial entity engaged in collecting, assembling, or maintaining personal information concerning an individual who is not a customer, client, or an employee of that entity in order to sell the information or otherwise profit from providing third-party access to the information.

    (B) EXCLUSION.—The term “data broker” does not include a commercial entity engaged in the following activities:

    (i) Engaging in reporting, news-gathering, speaking, or other activities intended to inform the public on matters of public interest or public concern

    So collecting financial disclosure forms, which are still public, is not illegal if youre informing the public on matters of public interest or concern. Which the people publishing were. And which the Washington Post was when it did it’s analysis.

    And here is the covered information: which you might note does not mention judicial financial disclosures or any of the information contained within.
    (2) COVERED INFORMATION.—The term “covered information” means—

    (A) a home address, including primary residence or secondary residences;

    (B) a home or personal mobile telephone number, or the direct telephone number of a Government-issued cell phone or private extension in the chambers of an at-risk individual;

    (C) a personal email address;

    (D) the social security number, driver’s license number, or home address displayed on voter registration information;

    (E) a bank account or credit or debit card information;

    (F) the home or other address displayed on property tax records or held by a Federal, State, or local government agency of an at-risk individual, including a secondary residence and any investment property at which an at-risk individual resides for part of a year;

    (G) a license plate number or home address displayed on vehicle registration information;

    (H) the identification of children of an at-risk individual under the age of 18;

    (I) the full date of birth;

    (J) a photograph of any vehicle that legibly displays the license plate or a photograph of a residence that legibly displays the address of the residence;

    (K) the name and address of a school or day care facility attended by immediate family; or

    (L) the name and address of an employer of immediate family.

    Goumindong on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Okay, you're obviously dead set on trying to define everyone's statements so incredibly narrowly as to suggest that there is no reasonable objection people can make about this law.

    But for the rest of us, it is quite reasonable to consider where a judge's spouse works to be of financial interest to the judge.


    As for your claim that there is clear exception for matters of public interest in the law, therefore no worries:

    There is a clear exception for Fair Use in YouTube's rules about filing Copyright Claims and monetizing videos

    Websites and ISPs aren't going to give a shit about reviewing the validity of claims. They are going to throw up an automated form people can fill out and the burden of proof will be shifted onto the publishers of the information, if there is even a process granted to them by which they can appeal the removal of the information.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The relevant portions of which would be included in the disclosure forms

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The relevant portions of which would be included in the disclosure forms

    Sounds like those disclosure forms contain information that would get them removed if shared publicly, then!

    (And obviously, this also operates on the assumption that these financial disclosure forms are fully and truthfully completed. It will be a lot more difficult for watchdog orgs and journalists to verify with these new laws.)

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The relevant portions of which would be included in the disclosure forms

    Sounds like those disclosure forms contain information that would get them removed if shared publicly, then!

    (And obviously, this also operates on the assumption that these financial disclosure forms are fully and truthfully completed. It will be a lot more difficult for watchdog orgs and journalists to verify with these new laws.)

    If the disclosure forms were not fully and truthfully completed then there would have been no conflicts of interests found in the Washington Post analysis. Since it utilized solely financial disclosure forms.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited December 2022
    You act like we can trust the disclosure forms to be accurate and honest. Those are just the documents they found...how many judges, like everyone's favorite Judge Thomas, lied on their disclosure forms? Or in Thomas' case, lied for 20 years, claimed they just didn't know when finally caught, STILL didn't properly disclose his spouse's income, and suffered 0 consequences for it?

    Dark_Side on
  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Predictably, SCotUS hasn't been able to identify the leaker of the Roe decision.
    NBC News wrote:
    In an unsigned statement, the court said that all leads had been followed up and forensic analysis performed, but "the team has to date been unable to identify a person responsible by a preponderance of the evidence."

    But the attached report suggested the court was not watertight, with some employees admitting they had talked to spouses about the draft opinion and how the justices had voted.

    Gee, that makes it sound like it might have been a certain subset of judges who wanted to maximize the pressure on their peers to not defect. And we can't have those judges, who have already been in politically hot water over how partisan the court looks, look even more partisan and bad at their jobs. Now can we?

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    We're all clear that it was Alito, right?

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Probably Alito, possibly Thomas.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    This part
    some employees admitting they had talked to spouses about the draft opinion and how the justices had voted

    Says Ginni

    It was one of them

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Its not clear that the investigation actually looked at any of the justices. If that's the case and they didnt find anything among all the employees the answer seems kinda clear.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Its not clear that the investigation actually looked at any of the justices. If that's the case and they didnt find anything among all the employees the answer seems kinda clear.

    7ajomme19ous.jpg

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Its not clear that the investigation actually looked at any of the justices. If that's the case and they didnt find anything among all the employees the answer seems kinda clear.

    They didn't.

    OK, so, I just finished the Marshal's report. It's wild. But, at the end of the day, this is really all that matters: The justices themselves were not asked questions or investigated, per what I gather from the Marshal's report.

  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Its not clear that the investigation actually looked at any of the justices. If that's the case and they didnt find anything among all the employees the answer seems kinda clear.

    They didn't.

    OK, so, I just finished the Marshal's report. It's wild. But, at the end of the day, this is really all that matters: The justices themselves were not asked questions or investigated, per what I gather from the Marshal's report.

    Avoiding a scandal by avoiding the people who were involved! Brilliant!

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Clarence Thomas in a hot dog costume

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Clarence Thomas in a hot dog costume

    This isn't the direction I expected a Clue remake to take, but... I'm willing to hear it out.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    We're all clear that it was Alito, right?

    Of course it was Alito. Alito hardly said a word when his opinion circulated. If it had been leaked he would have been publicly shouting from the roof tops about what a violation had been done to him. Does the investigation report get into the obvious leaks against Roberts that came after? Where it seemed really evident Alito and Thomas were airing dirty laundry to pressure Roberts?

    Dark_Side on
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna64875

    Interesting case. SCOTUS likely to rule that unions/workers can be held responsible for economic losses incurred by a Strike.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Interesting." Yeah. :#

  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane Not Angry... Just VERY Disappointed...Registered User regular
    After that, Supreme Court to rule on whether or not peasants should be held liable for damage done to boots used while stepping on their necks.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna64875

    Interesting case. SCOTUS likely to rule that unions/workers can be held responsible for economic losses incurred by a Strike.

    Seems like an argument that all worker are therefore responsible fore economic gains. Every business instantly becomes a equal profit sharing venture.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Jokes on them, we stopped having private sector unions decades ago...

    :'(

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Seems like kind of a novel case. The claim here is that when the concrete workers walked off the job, they returned trucks with cement still in them. The company claims they had to dump the concrete, let it harden, break it up. And that they lost 100k due to being unable to fulfill a contract. But a strike IS economic damage to a company. That's the whole point. This case is trying to conflate the employee actions into purposeful destruction of property.

    I think the Washington court had it right, the concrete loss was incidental to the federally protected strike. But there's no way Roberts et al isn't going to jump at an opportunity to death by a thousand cuts federal strike rights. They will happily push forward this idea of property destruction.

    Dark_Side on
  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Did you know that the bullshittery of the investigation could get worse?

    Because it got worse. This is part of a thread that you should check out if you're interested.


    Chris is a longtime SCotUS reporter, formerly of msnbc but currently running his own thing.
    BREAKING: Supreme Court marshal now says, despite including no information about this in Thursday’s report, that she “spoke with each of the Justices” and that no “credible leads … implicated the Justices or their spouses.” Because of this, the marshal says, no sworn affidavits.

    That pretty much says it all. Someone decided (whoever the marshal's boss is (oh wait, I know, it's the Chief Justice)) that the justices were exempt from having to be under oath for their part of the investigation. Tell me a justice or their spouse was responsible for the leak without telling me.

    Still doesn't explain why none of that was in the official report. It makes it look, even to a non-cynical person, that they're trying to bury the whole idea of a justice being the one.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    What a fucking joke.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Seems like kind of a novel case. The claim here is that when the concrete workers walked off the job, they returned trucks with cement still in them. The company claims they had to dump the concrete, let it harden, break it up. And that they lost 100k due to being unable to fulfill a contract. But a strike IS economic damage to a company. That's the whole point. This case is trying to conflate the employee actions into purposeful destruction of property.

    I think the Washington court had it right, the concrete loss was incidental to the federally protected strike. But there's no way Roberts et al isn't going to jump at an opportunity to death by a thousand cuts federal strike rights. They will happily push forward this idea of property destruction.

    Yeah. You could make a case for a narrow ruling regarding the specifics of concrete trucks in particular (that is, once they're loaded there's a clock to get them unloaded before it's a disaster). But you could counter that the trucks shouldn't have been loaded with a strike looming anyways - the loss is negligence on the part of the company to not prepare for the obvious. Losing money from not being able to make the contract? Not really any different from a store not being able to open if all the workers walk out, is it?

    But yeah, it's obvious that this is just an excuse to try and destroy unions entirely.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    PSN: AbEntropy
  • DesyDesy She/Her YeenRegistered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Seems like kind of a novel case. The claim here is that when the concrete workers walked off the job, they returned trucks with cement still in them. The company claims they had to dump the concrete, let it harden, break it up. And that they lost 100k due to being unable to fulfill a contract. But a strike IS economic damage to a company. That's the whole point. This case is trying to conflate the employee actions into purposeful destruction of property.

    I think the Washington court had it right, the concrete loss was incidental to the federally protected strike. But there's no way Roberts et al isn't going to jump at an opportunity to death by a thousand cuts federal strike rights. They will happily push forward this idea of property destruction.

    Yeah. You could make a case for a narrow ruling regarding the specifics of concrete trucks in particular (that is, once they're loaded there's a clock to get them unloaded before it's a disaster). But you could counter that the trucks shouldn't have been loaded with a strike looming anyways - the loss is negligence on the part of the company to not prepare for the obvious. Losing money from not being able to make the contract? Not really any different from a store not being able to open if all the workers walk out, is it?

    But yeah, it's obvious that this is just an excuse to try and destroy unions entirely.

    And it is important to note that the striking workers left the truck drums rotating, at least from the info I've read. It was the choice of the concrete company to dump them out there, let the concrete harden, and then break it up. In theory, the company could've paid money to get one-time drivers and workers out there to work the concrete before it's lost.

    Desy on
    camo_sig2.png
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Seems like kind of a novel case. The claim here is that when the concrete workers walked off the job, they returned trucks with cement still in them. The company claims they had to dump the concrete, let it harden, break it up. And that they lost 100k due to being unable to fulfill a contract. But a strike IS economic damage to a company. That's the whole point. This case is trying to conflate the employee actions into purposeful destruction of property.

    I think the Washington court had it right, the concrete loss was incidental to the federally protected strike. But there's no way Roberts et al isn't going to jump at an opportunity to death by a thousand cuts federal strike rights. They will happily push forward this idea of property destruction.

    Yeah. You could make a case for a narrow ruling regarding the specifics of concrete trucks in particular (that is, once they're loaded there's a clock to get them unloaded before it's a disaster). But you could counter that the trucks shouldn't have been loaded with a strike looming anyways - the loss is negligence on the part of the company to not prepare for the obvious. Losing money from not being able to make the contract? Not really any different from a store not being able to open if all the workers walk out, is it?

    But yeah, it's obvious that this is just an excuse to try and destroy unions entirely.

    And it is important to note that the striking workers left the truck drums rotating, at least from the info I've read. It was the choice of the concrete company to dump them out there, let the concrete harden, and then break it up. In theory, the company could've paid money to get one-time drivers and workers out there to work the concrete before it's lost.

    My understanding is that even rotating there's a clock ticking there. But ultimately, the alternative would allow compelling work instead of striking, which is obviously absurd.

    Steam: Polaritie
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  • DesyDesy She/Her YeenRegistered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Seems like kind of a novel case. The claim here is that when the concrete workers walked off the job, they returned trucks with cement still in them. The company claims they had to dump the concrete, let it harden, break it up. And that they lost 100k due to being unable to fulfill a contract. But a strike IS economic damage to a company. That's the whole point. This case is trying to conflate the employee actions into purposeful destruction of property.

    I think the Washington court had it right, the concrete loss was incidental to the federally protected strike. But there's no way Roberts et al isn't going to jump at an opportunity to death by a thousand cuts federal strike rights. They will happily push forward this idea of property destruction.

    Yeah. You could make a case for a narrow ruling regarding the specifics of concrete trucks in particular (that is, once they're loaded there's a clock to get them unloaded before it's a disaster). But you could counter that the trucks shouldn't have been loaded with a strike looming anyways - the loss is negligence on the part of the company to not prepare for the obvious. Losing money from not being able to make the contract? Not really any different from a store not being able to open if all the workers walk out, is it?

    But yeah, it's obvious that this is just an excuse to try and destroy unions entirely.

    And it is important to note that the striking workers left the truck drums rotating, at least from the info I've read. It was the choice of the concrete company to dump them out there, let the concrete harden, and then break it up. In theory, the company could've paid money to get one-time drivers and workers out there to work the concrete before it's lost.

    My understanding is that even rotating there's a clock ticking there. But ultimately, the alternative would allow compelling work instead of striking, which is obviously absurd.

    Oh yeah, for sure. Thanks for the addition. A rotating concrete drum does still have a time clock before it's hardened and unusable. Rotation does not make it "shelf-stable," to be perfectly clear.

    Looking into it with a basic google, I'm seeing:
    Yes – According to ASTM C-94, concrete discharge must be complete within 90 minutes of mixing water with cement and aggregates.
    No – ASTM C-94 also states that these limitations can be waved if the slump meets mix design specifications without adding water.
    

    So if the trucks were spinning, the company had 90 minutes to do something to sort out the issue.

    Desy on
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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    The fact they brought them back and left them running as to not damage the drums is why to me, it makes this a very hard leap to claim destruction of property. If we allow property damage due to the timed nature of the product, the cement company could, in theory, force economic damages onto unions considering a strike by running concrete batches 24 hours a day. And it's not at all hard to see how a ruling for the concrete company here could open up a massive advantage for just about any company to exploit against a worker strike, because now you can claim anything that affected the product is not protected. Well, everything affects the product. Company's like Kellogg's would happily dump a day's production on the floor to claim it was destroyed by a walkout.

    The scarier thing though is that with this court? I wouldn't be surprised if they pull another RvW move and use the case to declare unions illegal. Because they're not based in the historical tradition of the US.

    Dark_Side on
  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Did you know that the bullshittery of the investigation could get worse?

    Because it got worse. This is part of a thread that you should check out if you're interested.


    Chris is a longtime SCotUS reporter, formerly of msnbc but currently running his own thing.
    BREAKING: Supreme Court marshal now says, despite including no information about this in Thursday’s report, that she “spoke with each of the Justices” and that no “credible leads … implicated the Justices or their spouses.” Because of this, the marshal says, no sworn affidavits.

    That pretty much says it all. Someone decided (whoever the marshal's boss is (oh wait, I know, it's the Chief Justice)) that the justices were exempt from having to be under oath for their part of the investigation. Tell me a justice or their spouse was responsible for the leak without telling me.

    Still doesn't explain why none of that was in the official report. It makes it look, even to a non-cynical person, that they're trying to bury the whole idea of a justice being the one.

    https://www.theonion.com/alito-thomas-share-laugh-after-discovering-they-both-l-1850012714
    To be clear, this is satire (The Onion), but it is on topic and gave me a good laugh

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna64875

    Interesting case. SCOTUS likely to rule that unions/workers can be held responsible for economic losses incurred by a Strike.

    Seems like an argument that all worker are therefore responsible fore economic gains. Every business instantly becomes a equal profit sharing venture.

    Nope, socialize the losses, privatize the gains.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    So if I don't want to suffer any laws and become openly corrupt, just become a judge. Neat.

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