Numb Hands - No luck with tests

Magus`

So for several years now, I've been suffering from cold and slightly numb hands. Sometimes they ache as well.

I've had a Reynaud's test and carpal tunnel test which came back negative.

I've had blood tests that have not shown any vitamin deficiencies.

I have a diagnosed dessicated disc in my spine, but my doctor swears on his life it's not in a position that would cause the issue. I may get a second opinion, just in case.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, except that stimulants make it worse (which is just great when you have ADHD). Also my hands are extremely heat sensitive with warm water feeling hot and hot water feeling scalding.

Am I missing something obvious? I basically can't enjoy doing a lot of things because of how my hands feel.

Burtletoy

We thought my mom had some form Raynauds, but it turned out to be a rare disease called Cold Agglutinin Disease instead. And I know there is a similar one called Warm Agglutinin Disease as well?

Daimar

Get a second or third opinion until they nail it down. A single doctor doesn't know everything so if your current one is stumped and unable/unwilling to help, go elsewhere.

Fiendishrabbit

I asked a friend of mine who works as a GP. That stimulants makes it worse is fairly typical (many ADHD meds contract your blood vessels), but it might indicate blood vessel damage.

If your job involves working with powertools this might just be work-related damage (extensive use of powertools will cause micro-scarring in the blood vessels in your hands, which will build up over long time use).
Otherwise you should rule out diabetes, arthritis, atherosclerosis, high blood-pressure, kidney damage and heart function.

If your doctor says that your spinal injury isn't the cause, then he/she is probably right. At least directly. The nerves controlling all the stuff in your hands starts at the lower neck, so if you have a mid or lower back injury this should not do anything directly.
However, nerve damage to the spine can influence renal blood pressure regulation. Which means that it's doubly important to check blood pressure and kidney function.

Get your test results and get a second opinion.

Magus`

I'm getting blood work soon, and the spinal stuff is actually at my neck. I want to say C5/C6. Causes significant pain down my left shoulder blade.

Don't work with tools, but do have a desk job.

Just had my BP checked and it was 105/70, so that's good, I guess.

Fiendishrabbit

Magus` wrote: »

I'm getting blood work soon, and the spinal stuff is actually at my neck. I want to say C5/C6. Causes significant pain down my left shoulder blade.

Don't work with tools, but do have a desk job.

Just had my BP checked and it was 105/70, so that's good, I guess.

If it's C5/C6 it should have an effect primarily on the thumb. So probably not that.

No problems with elbow pain or other signs of cubital tunnel syndrome (such as a tingly little or ring finger)? Because the number of times doctors check carpal tunnel syndrome (median nerve) and forget about the ulnar nerve is...well, it shouldn't happen but it happens.
Or did they test both at the same time (if you did a nerve conduction test)?

Magus`

I don't really get tingling - just my hands feel cold which in turn makes them feel numb.

It makes playing games suck because I can feel the muscles (?) rub together in my fingers - mainly the ones that hit the shoulder buttons.

Edit: Not sure if they checked the ulnar nerve.

Edit 2: To be clear, my hands ARE cold. It's not just a sensation, they get pretty frigid. Source: My wife.

Cambiata

I take it since you say there's nothing on the blood tests that you for sure don't have diabetes? Because cold hands sounds like diabetes. As a complete layman, cold hands says to me blood isn't getting to your hands, something is causing it to slow down. How is your blood pressure doing? Could it be that when your hands are cold, something stressful is happening so you get the high blood pressure, which in turn slows your blood flow and makes the hands cold, but when you're at the doctor's office you aren't experiencing the stress so the doctor can't see the problem?

Magus`

I've had my A1C tested a few times with no issues noted. My blood pressure is always pretty low, not that I check it every day. Next time my hands get really bad I'll check.

BlindZenDriver

I would talk to a neurologist. Not sure how it works stateside, but here it would normally take getting a referral from your GP.

bwanie

do you smoke?/have you smoked heavy in the past?

Donnicton

Magus` wrote: »

I don't really get tingling - just my hands feel cold which in turn makes them feel numb.

It makes playing games suck because I can feel the muscles (?) rub together in my fingers - mainly the ones that hit the shoulder buttons.

Edit: Not sure if they checked the ulnar nerve.

Edit 2: To be clear, my hands ARE cold. It's not just a sensation, they get pretty frigid. Source: My wife.

I've had surgery for ulnar nerve entrapment and the tests for that involve sticking metal needles into your hand and wrists to measure nerve activity. It's some of the most uncomfortable burning pain imaginable during this test(especially when they stick it into the bottom of your hand) so you'd know if you had that checked.

To my knowledge that wouldn't account for your whole hand, an ulnar nerve problem would be in the bottom half of your arm and hand (e.g. numbness pathing right along the nerve like in the picture in this article).

Magus`

bwanie wrote: »

do you smoke?/have you smoked heavy in the past?

Nope, never have.

bwanie

I think maybe some nerve thing. I have the same thing on but only on occasions. Hot showers and working standing seem to alleviate the symptoms for me.

Cambiata

bwanie wrote: »

I think maybe some nerve thing. I have the same thing on but only on occasions. Hot showers and working standing seem to alleviate the symptoms for me.

Nerve problems can cause a feeling of coldness? That's interesting. Is it that the nerves are like, incorrectly sending a signal of "cold" due to damage?

bwanie

It's more that the brain stuffs a lack of stimuli from the extremeties in the "must be cold" corner by default.

That combined with actual decreased bloodflow (if there's nerves pinched, there;s probably also some pinching of veins) could very well lead to fingers feeling and actually being cold.

spool32

I'm going to go for undiagnosed RSI from your desk job and computer gaming.

Source: the best kind, my own experience (lol)

Anyhow, here is the set of things I'd try. All of these together worked for me to remove pain, coldness, and numbness in my arms and hands... not just while at my desk, but all the time.

- move to a split ergo keyboard with tenting, like the Kinesis Freestyle 2.
- adjust your monitor up so that the center point is eye level when you look straight ahead while sitting up straight. This could be as high as 5-6 inches above where it sits now
- start doing a daily yoga practice focused specifically on core alignment and excellent posture
- get some cushioning for your armrests to reduce pressure on the nerves and blood vessels around your elbows

Fiendishrabbit

Cambiata wrote: »

bwanie wrote: »

I think maybe some nerve thing. I have the same thing on but only on occasions. Hot showers and working standing seem to alleviate the symptoms for me.

Nerve problems can cause a feeling of coldness? That's interesting. Is it that the nerves are like, incorrectly sending a signal of "cold" due to damage?

Nerve problem can cause actual coldness, in that the nerve irritation simulates your thermoreceptors going "hey. Things are cold here" (it's usually cold, because thermoreceptors sensitive to cold are about 3 times as common as heat sensitive ones) and then the bloodvessels contract to conserve heat and as a result your hands end up being cold due to restricted bloodflow.

bwanie

yeah basically you get stuck in a positive feedbackloop. That's why warm showers tend to help, they reset the cold reflex and the warmth by itself allows everything to relax a bit and get proper circulation going.

Calica

My mouse hand gets cold when I spend too long at the computer. Apparently this is a Thing. The cold also makes my tendonitis flare up, which I experience as weird "rubbing" sensations in the back of my hand.

Wrist warmers actually help, as dumb as that sounds, so give that a shot? If it's a chronic thing, you can try OTC painkillers for the anti-inflammatory effect. Or so my doctor mom told me when I worried at her about occupational RSI

Just for context, I'm also someone whose hands are always cold unless I'm overheated and my body is actively trying to cool off.

Windburn

Is it both hands?
Is it limited to part of the hand or is it generalized?

Magus`

Windburn wrote: »

Is it both hands?
Is it limited to part of the hand or is it generalized?

Both and the entire hands or, at least, all of the fingers and most of the rest of the hand. It flares up the most when I use ADHD meds or drink coffee.

Windburn

Magus` wrote: »

Both and the entire hands or, at least, all of the fingers and most of the rest of the hand. It flares up the most when I use ADHD meds or drink coffee.

This is not coming from your spine or a peripheral nerve (like the median or ulnar nerves). This pattern rules out cord or nerve root compression from a disc herniation or osseous narrowing, brachial plexus pathology (such as a stinger or tumor), cubital tunnel syndrome, carpal tunnel syndrome, and pretty much any so-called repetitive stress injury.

This doesn't mean it's not nerve related, just that it's not a mechanical compression of a nerve.

Your history favors more of a vascular etiology, in my opinion. I would suggest seeing a Rheumatologist. Most of these syndromic type conditions don't have a single "test" that will diagnose them. You want to be evaluated by someone with experience in putting a variety of puzzle pieces together and coming up with a likely differential diagnosis. Then various treatments are attempted to see if they improve your symptoms. It's one of the more "art" type fields of medicine.

Magus`

Windburn wrote: »

Magus` wrote: »

Both and the entire hands or, at least, all of the fingers and most of the rest of the hand. It flares up the most when I use ADHD meds or drink coffee.

This is not coming from your spine or a peripheral nerve (like the median or ulnar nerves). This pattern rules out cord or nerve root compression from a disc herniation or osseous narrowing, brachial plexus pathology (such as a stinger or tumor), cubital tunnel syndrome, carpal tunnel syndrome, and pretty much any so-called repetitive stress injury.

This doesn't mean it's not nerve related, just that it's not a mechanical compression of a nerve.

Your history favors more of a vascular etiology, in my opinion. I would suggest seeing a Rheumatologist. Most of these syndromic type conditions don't have a single "test" that will diagnose them. You want to be evaluated by someone with experience in putting a variety of puzzle pieces together and coming up with a likely differential diagnosis. Then various treatments are attempted to see if they improve your symptoms. It's one of the more "art" type fields of medicine.

I'll certainly ask for a referral. Kind of annoying a doctor has never suggested this despite it being an issue for years.