Loki continues to be my favorite marvel property. Literally have gotten chills in the last couple episodes. Amazing direction. It's almost a shame we're not getting feature films.
You'd need either an Infinity War/Endgame style split or to cut half the content of the series. While there's definitely some moments that could be sped up (answer the phone!) others not so much
You know, Loki is a way for Marvel to get out of their Jonathan Major's problem. You got Renslayer. You got Sophie. Both played by actresses good enough to carry a movie without the baggage. You don't have Perlmutter vetoing female villains anymore. I personally would go for Renslayer, just because. But with some twisting Sophie can do the trick. Hunter B-15 can step up if you twist it far enough.
Have one of them decide that they, not Kang should be the She-who-remains, supreme ruler of the timelines. Have them kill the council of Kangs and start a major temporal crisis. Either to rule it or to reshape it. Explain it with that while the Kangs where villains, they where always predestined to lose. They where part of the timelines, while She-Who-Remains is willing to destroy them to get what she want. Even the name Kang the Conqueror is not Kang's original name, either in the comics or this show(Victor Timely). So have her kill them and claim the title: I am Kang now!
One particular thing is that we still don't know who Renslayer is on the Sacred Timeline. Sure in the comics she is Princess Ravonna, but why would she alone keep her name in the TVA? She was obviously important for Kang winning the war. So what if she is Natalie Richards! Dun,dun dunnnnn! (Nathaniel Richards is the comic counterpart of Kang). That she was the real Kang all along!
Then we have Loki trying to convince the Avengers that nKang is threat, but he is the well-known god of lies. He helped create the Avengers in the first place! Conflict across several phases. It would even be an excuse to bring back some originals or x-men if you need too.
Edit: B-15, not X-15. sorry.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
+1
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Yo that Echo trailer. Defintely vibing more violent than everything else so far, closer to Netflix Marvel it looks like
...and, shit. Looks pretty good. Maybe this should be expected? The less "important" a show is to Disney, the more creative vision seems to seep into it. See also: Andor.
The problem I have with the Echo trailer is that they're selling it on Kingpin, and not Echo. There's almost no indication in the trailer as to what the story is, what her story, goal, purpose is.
That gives me concerns.
It doesn't look bad, visually, at least from what we can see; I just am not sure how invested people (me) will get into a relatively unknown character, if you can't even communicate why we would want to watch a show with that character, without having to use another character entirely to sell it.
I'm enjoying Loki very much so far but with how episode 5 ended, I'm sad we'll likely never get this joke.
Mobius: What do you need to tell me?
Loki: Look, it's absolutely imperative that you-
(Loki involuntarily timeslips. Mobius looks around confused. A door slams open and Loki walks in.)
Loki: I just time-slipped?
Mobius: Yeah. You were about to tell me something?
Loki: Right, it's-
(Loki involuntarily timeslips again. Mobius looks exasperated. Loki steps out of a storage closet behind Mobius.)
Mobius:...Were you in there the whole time?
Loki: Yes.
Mobius: For how long?
Loki: 30 minutes. I've been stuck doing worse things for that amount of time.
The problem I have with the Echo trailer is that they're selling it on Kingpin, and not Echo. There's almost no indication in the trailer as to what the story is, what her story, goal, purpose is.
That gives me concerns.
It doesn't look bad, visually, at least from what we can see; I just am not sure how invested people (me) will get into a relatively unknown character, if you can't even communicate why we would want to watch a show with that character, without having to use another character entirely to sell it.
I think you hit the nail on the head: Vincent D'onofrio as Kingpin is well-know actor with a established character. Alaqua Cox is an unknown with two credits in her IMDB page: Hawkeye and this. I mean Iman Vellani had just Ms Marvel and the Marvels and she did fine. However when you got D'onofrio on tap, why not take advantage of that? Echo is E-list even in the comic Marvel Universe at best. Kingpin is A-list outside of it. He is one of the most famous villains Marvel has.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
+3
MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
I guess as far as the Echo trailer goes, they wanted to have a character monologue over it, and it's not exactly easy for a mute character to do so. I guess they could have had Echo sign in a picture-in-picture insert, but that would probably be very easy to have come across as more silly than serious, plus of course then needing to also subtitle the signing for those who don't understand it (is the term for knowing a sign language the ability to speak it like a spoken language, or is there another term?). Selling it on "remember how awesome Kingpin was in Daredevil, well we've got more of that, plus this other cool character who he's hyping up for you" was probably the easiest way to go.
When you've got a deaf main character in a show that needs to be very mainstream accessible, you can only spend so much runtime on scenes from her perspective, which the audience will probably find fairly isolating. The exposition is of course all going to be delivered by the other characters. It's going to take some clever writing to make Echo still feel like the main character of the show.
The Only Murders in the Building episode from the perspective of the deaf character was really well done, but it would be hard to do a whole series with it
Like if Daredevil was from Matt's POV
As an aside, I like how there seem to be a lot more signing characters in TV shows over the last couple of years
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
+5
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Loki Episode 5
Just venting but I'm 10 minutes in the episode and I really don't understand why Loki actually thinks anyone else knows what the fuck is going on and why THEY would be able to explain things to him. Bro you already went through this shit. You should be able to take agency and just start Quantum Leaping your way to understanding what is going on rather than just freaking out. Why would he assume that the Casey and the Mobius he meets are the ones who are even from his timeline or know what just happened?
I'm really hoping they move on from this approach with the characters this season where they add drama by making them completely unable to make decisions and just aimlessly wandering around letting things happen to them instead of actually trying to move forward. Loki in particular has suffered from just being a complete dumbass and not being able to comprehend basic temporal mechanics that were already explained to him and which he has already directly experienced.
+5
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Just venting but I'm 10 minutes in the episode and I really don't understand why Loki actually thinks anyone else knows what the fuck is going on and why THEY would be able to explain things to him. Bro you already went through this shit. You should be able to take agency and just start Quantum Leaping your way to understanding what is going on rather than just freaking out. Why would he assume that the Casey and the Mobius he meets are the ones who are even from his timeline or know what just happened?
I'm really hoping they move on from this approach with the characters this season where they add drama by making them completely unable to make decisions and just aimlessly wandering around letting things happen to them instead of actually trying to move forward. Loki in particular has suffered from just being a complete dumbass and not being able to comprehend basic temporal mechanics that were already explained to him and which he has already directly experienced.
I very much enjoyed the episode overall, but yeah, that was a very perplexing writing decision.
hoping that what just happened to him happened to the others. Maybe thinks he will jog thier memories? By time he meets Sylvie he figured she wouldn't remember then she does.
Desparation and hope seeming irrational until he gains back some semblance of control
+8
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Just venting but I'm 10 minutes in the episode and I really don't understand why Loki actually thinks anyone else knows what the fuck is going on and why THEY would be able to explain things to him. Bro you already went through this shit. You should be able to take agency and just start Quantum Leaping your way to understanding what is going on rather than just freaking out. Why would he assume that the Casey and the Mobius he meets are the ones who are even from his timeline or know what just happened?
I'm really hoping they move on from this approach with the characters this season where they add drama by making them completely unable to make decisions and just aimlessly wandering around letting things happen to them instead of actually trying to move forward. Loki in particular has suffered from just being a complete dumbass and not being able to comprehend basic temporal mechanics that were already explained to him and which he has already directly experienced.
I very much enjoyed the episode overall, but yeah, that was a very perplexing writing decision.
Honestly I think this season's writing
has suffered from quite a bit of bloat and almost indulgent levels of dramatics in the form of slow, bombastic scenes that are ultimately meaningless to the plot and add very little to tone or characterization. It's reminiscent of FX's Legion (except nothing is as bad as Legion).
There was a discussion in the Star Wars thread about cinematography and composition stuff and honestly in that department it's hard to believe that Ahsoka and Loki are made by the same company. I don't know enough about that stuff to say whether Loki is superior on a technical level, but while in Ahsoka the flatness of the shots was noticeable, in Loki every single scene just seems to ooze personality. The music is great too, of course, but not just a good score (which pretty much every Disney property has these days, by virtue of being able to hire really good composers) but by being used with intentionality from moment to moment. Every individual moment feels like this is a show that is molded by hand by a living human with a vision.
And I've been hard on the dramatic aspects of the show and I'm still not jazzed about Renslayer as a villain, but the character beats in episode 5 are on point. This episode told a story on its own (another thing Disney shows have been struggling with or just flat not attempting) and the personal story in this one was very engaging. We'll see how the landing goes but my first impression of episode 5 was that it was one of the best episodes of the show so far. Getting me to care about the characters is a big ask in this show (and now in the Marvel multiverse in general, since Loki essentially demands the question that multiverse storylines try to avoid: "why should I care about the fates of these characters when they have already endured every possible fate in an equally valid alternate universe?"). But for this episode at least, I cared, and that's an accomplishment.
My answer for the question about why OB's room looked like the TVA, I think it's just that every character had a little bit of their personal history bleed through after the memory wipe (the most obvious being the jetski, the most spurious being Casey saying the guards would gut him like a fish). So he unconsciously built his TVA office to look like his old real life office.
Loki isn't just a good score, it's an excellent score. Probably the best, imo, of the MCU, and also just great regardless. I think it's better even on a second watching because on first watch you can be focused on the dialogue, and while the music is doing its job, it isn't the focus. But if you take the time to really focus on it, it's really good. And it fits the show absolutely perfectly.
As far as why it might feel more visually appealing to you they 1) let their colors actually live and breathe, and have a consistent palette that has an emotional purpose that enhances scenes that they emphasize (orange and green). 2) Actual sets, that are done really well, can make a pretty dramatic difference. It's not to say that I think the Star Wars shows have looked bad, but you can tell when they're on their digital set and when they're on a real one, and even when they are, they're so stationary that it almost doesn't matter? But with Loki the sets are extremely well designed, feel like actual places, and have enough room to carry a scene beyond sitting and talking. And having the visual consistency of locations when they do have a stationary set (like the cafeteria for example) you still have been shown where it is, so you feel like it's a place you can get to, as opposed to a "set". EDIT: And I think you can tell from a good actor if they're in a space they feel is real, vs pretending. I'm not against digital work to expand a set, but I also think that an actor should be able to focus all their energies on doing their role, and not have to waste it on also trying to maintain disbelief internally that they're actually in a place. A good set can bring out better performances.
Loki should really win all the awards. Acting, effects, music, art/design.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Yeah, Loki and Andor have both had some of the best production design I've seen on TV for a few years, so it can clearly be done at Disney if there's a sufficiently firm hand to keep the C suite at bay.
part of me was really worried there'd be some way out of character thing like Sylvie ends up leading the TVA or something, but they proved they knew what they were doing and the resolution of this was great. Good Season 1, Good Season 2, good ending. Good show. Great casting. Great visuals. Not Andor good but if Andor is a 10 then Loki is a solid 9, definitely at the top of the MCU shows
I think this season made season 1 even better, because while it seemed like there were a couple wasted episodes then, Loki's arc makes less sense now if he didn't work all the, well, Loki, God of Mischief out of his system over that time.
blowing up the loom and letting things land where they may? Is it because Loki is pruning out threats? And if so, how is that any more free than before? And why does everything online say he is the god of stories now? Did they say that at some point and I missed it?
Posts
You'd need either an Infinity War/Endgame style split or to cut half the content of the series. While there's definitely some moments that could be sped up (answer the phone!) others not so much
One particular thing is that we still don't know who Renslayer is on the Sacred Timeline. Sure in the comics she is Princess Ravonna, but why would she alone keep her name in the TVA? She was obviously important for Kang winning the war. So what if she is Natalie Richards! Dun,dun dunnnnn! (Nathaniel Richards is the comic counterpart of Kang). That she was the real Kang all along!
Then we have Loki trying to convince the Avengers that nKang is threat, but he is the well-known god of lies. He helped create the Avengers in the first place! Conflict across several phases. It would even be an excuse to bring back some originals or x-men if you need too.
Edit: B-15, not X-15. sorry.
...and, shit. Looks pretty good. Maybe this should be expected? The less "important" a show is to Disney, the more creative vision seems to seep into it. See also: Andor.
Steam: adamjnet
I thought Echo's actor was fine in the little bit of Hawkeye she was in, curious to see how she does as a lead.
Also, from the trailer,
That gives me concerns.
It doesn't look bad, visually, at least from what we can see; I just am not sure how invested people (me) will get into a relatively unknown character, if you can't even communicate why we would want to watch a show with that character, without having to use another character entirely to sell it.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Loki: Look, it's absolutely imperative that you-
(Loki involuntarily timeslips. Mobius looks around confused. A door slams open and Loki walks in.)
Loki: I just time-slipped?
Mobius: Yeah. You were about to tell me something?
Loki: Right, it's-
(Loki involuntarily timeslips again. Mobius looks exasperated. Loki steps out of a storage closet behind Mobius.)
Mobius:...Were you in there the whole time?
Loki: Yes.
Mobius: For how long?
Loki: 30 minutes. I've been stuck doing worse things for that amount of time.
I think you hit the nail on the head: Vincent D'onofrio as Kingpin is well-know actor with a established character. Alaqua Cox is an unknown with two credits in her IMDB page: Hawkeye and this. I mean Iman Vellani had just Ms Marvel and the Marvels and she did fine. However when you got D'onofrio on tap, why not take advantage of that? Echo is E-list even in the comic Marvel Universe at best. Kingpin is A-list outside of it. He is one of the most famous villains Marvel has.
Loki season two has been exhausting but fun. Fine little line they're balancing on.
I laughed awkwardly loud right after
Far from it.
Like if Daredevil was from Matt's POV
As an aside, I like how there seem to be a lot more signing characters in TV shows over the last couple of years
I'm really hoping they move on from this approach with the characters this season where they add drama by making them completely unable to make decisions and just aimlessly wandering around letting things happen to them instead of actually trying to move forward. Loki in particular has suffered from just being a complete dumbass and not being able to comprehend basic temporal mechanics that were already explained to him and which he has already directly experienced.
I very much enjoyed the episode overall, but yeah, that was a very perplexing writing decision.
Desparation and hope seeming irrational until he gains back some semblance of control
Honestly I think this season's writing
And I've been hard on the dramatic aspects of the show and I'm still not jazzed about Renslayer as a villain, but the character beats in episode 5 are on point. This episode told a story on its own (another thing Disney shows have been struggling with or just flat not attempting) and the personal story in this one was very engaging. We'll see how the landing goes but my first impression of episode 5 was that it was one of the best episodes of the show so far. Getting me to care about the characters is a big ask in this show (and now in the Marvel multiverse in general, since Loki essentially demands the question that multiverse storylines try to avoid: "why should I care about the fates of these characters when they have already endured every possible fate in an equally valid alternate universe?"). But for this episode at least, I cared, and that's an accomplishment.
As far as why it might feel more visually appealing to you they 1) let their colors actually live and breathe, and have a consistent palette that has an emotional purpose that enhances scenes that they emphasize (orange and green). 2) Actual sets, that are done really well, can make a pretty dramatic difference. It's not to say that I think the Star Wars shows have looked bad, but you can tell when they're on their digital set and when they're on a real one, and even when they are, they're so stationary that it almost doesn't matter? But with Loki the sets are extremely well designed, feel like actual places, and have enough room to carry a scene beyond sitting and talking. And having the visual consistency of locations when they do have a stationary set (like the cafeteria for example) you still have been shown where it is, so you feel like it's a place you can get to, as opposed to a "set". EDIT: And I think you can tell from a good actor if they're in a space they feel is real, vs pretending. I'm not against digital work to expand a set, but I also think that an actor should be able to focus all their energies on doing their role, and not have to waste it on also trying to maintain disbelief internally that they're actually in a place. A good set can bring out better performances.
Loki should really win all the awards. Acting, effects, music, art/design.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Wow. This is the final episode. Only six.
Either a real great gift or a big stinker.
Happy birthday!
He finally has a throne.
good resolution
I think it's time to ask
the "best casting decision" people have always argued is Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man
but ... Tom Hiddleston acted his heart out as Loki, it really seems like he loves the character.
Go ahead?