OK genuinely asking, I bounced hard off of Mad Men in the first episode because it felt a little too much like every piece of media where people missed that the point was (subject) was bad actually, it was a little too nostalgic for the racism and sexism for me, but is that true throughout the series? Like, I know people consider it a piece of classic television, is it something I should try to watch? Or should I just save my older television series energy for something like watching Oz again for the first time since it aired, or The Wire, or something
It's possible. There's always a strong undercurrent of that throughout the show. It never fully stops being about Don Draper being a piece of shit, but it does start to focus more on the plights and misadventures of the rest of the cast. I think it has quite a few of the best moments in TV history, and it sets a mood and tone like nobody's business. But it is what it is. The kinda-sorta spiritual journey of a real shitty dude. It's just that the light that's shone on Don Draper tends to waver from sympathetic to pitying, and I'm not sure the balance of that works for everyone. But it's got a bunch of undeniably great writing, a fantastic cast, and there is a lot to love there.
I maintain that Mad Men is actually the story of The Inexorable Rise Of Peggy Olson, with some distracting Don or Betty Draper-centric episodes along the way. It is a bit up its own butt though, and Halt and Catch Fire is a more nuanced show.
That said, if you're at all into the craft of television, Mad Men is a must watch imo (and the period detail is impeccable). (oh I see Pooro got here first) Also the first half of the first season is definitely the slowest/least absorbing part.
edit: i will also say that while Mad Men is populated with its fair share of shitheads, it's not trying to be a show about "this is all the ways these people are terrible". Everyone is at least a little bit terrible, in the ways that humans mostly are, but mostly they're simply well-rounded and the discomfort or the terribleness comes from the friction of two or more flawed people forced into professional or conjugal proximity, and sometimes that results in healthy growth (Pete, ffs!) and sometimes it's a toxic nightmare.
Also if you're at all a fan of Jared Harris (and who isn't?) then it's worth watching just to see him get to explore yet another facet of tragic integrity.
Yeah I definitely don't need it to be feel-good or have characters I'd want to hang out with - I certainly don't think of Oz as having a cast of characters I ever want to encounter in my life, even the "nice" ones - Mad Men just felt a little too 'man, you remember the good old days?' when I tried to watch it, which to be fair was as it was airing 17 years ago. I think maybe with the completion of it and the context that it wasn't just jerking itself off about how great things were back then, it'll probably go on my long list of things to watch when I'm dog-sitting or otherwise out of the house. I wanted to ask here because I do genuinely appreciate the opinions of lots of people here so if you're saying it's not about that, I'll believe it, as opposed to asking elsewhere and having someone snark at me for not wanting to invest the time if it was.
Fun fact, watching Oz as it aired means that no matter how long it has been, my first instinct when I see JK Simmons in anything is secret Nazi. It makes seeing him in things like romcons very jarring for that split second before my brain catches up. Also wow I was 14! That was a real choice for a TV show for us to watch as a family!
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Thinking about prestige, dramatic TV with the perspective of "Would I want to hang out with these people?" can be a fun prompt.
Because, well, I think Elizabeth and Philip Jennings from The Americans would likely be really fun to hang out with, in some capacity!
They seem like fun brunch folks!! They could probably add some positive energy to a bowling team!
Yeah I definitely don't need it to be feel-good or have characters I'd want to hang out with - I certainly don't think of Oz as having a cast of characters I ever want to encounter in my life, even the "nice" ones - Mad Men just felt a little too 'man, you remember the good old days?' when I tried to watch it, which to be fair was as it was airing 17 years ago. I think maybe with the completion of it and the context that it wasn't just jerking itself off about how great things were back then, it'll probably go on my long list of things to watch when I'm dog-sitting or otherwise out of the house. I wanted to ask here because I do genuinely appreciate the opinions of lots of people here so if you're saying it's not about that, I'll believe it, as opposed to asking elsewhere and having someone snark at me for not wanting to invest the time if it was.
Fun fact, watching Oz as it aired means that no matter how long it has been, my first instinct when I see JK Simmons in anything is secret Nazi. It makes seeing him in things like romcons very jarring for that split second before my brain catches up. Also wow I was 14! That was a real choice for a TV show for us to watch as a family!
One of the things that makes the first season hard to get through on an initial run is it definitely feels like it's trying to set up each episode to be a 45 minute whisky commercial from 1958, and it takes a while before it self-deconstructs enough to lay bare the meta-narrative of the falsehood of advertising in general and that style of commercial in particular. Among other things, it's a show about how 1950s and 60s American capitalism largely ran on a fragile, white male-centric vision which was simply papering over a succession of deep national traumas, and we begin the show right before the cracks in that whole facade start to appear.
The captivating thing about Londo Molari is that his story is largely a tragedy.
He's caught in this gravity well that he can't seem to escape, and at times even embraces!
But ultimately Londo wants to be a good person. He wants to be liked and remembered for his great deeds and his good character.
The problem lays in that Londo is viewing all of that through the prism of Centauri cultural conditioning and it sure would seem that to be a great Centauri you can't be a good Centauri.
He really does remind me of Ulysses, as in the Odyssey, when I think about it. They're both utter bastards and also, sometimes, they're both sly as a fox.
The captivating thing about Londo Molari is that his story is largely a tragedy.
He's caught in this gravity well that he can't seem to escape, and at times even embraces!
But ultimately Londo wants to be a good person. He wants to be liked and remembered for his great deeds and his good character.
The problem lays in that Londo is viewing all of that through the prism of Centauri cultural conditioning and it sure would seem that to be a great Centauri you can't be a good Centauri.
He really does remind me of Ulysses, as in the Odyssey, when I think about it. They're both utter bastards and also, sometimes, they're both sly as a fox.
I'm trying to think of a group of TV show people I would want to spend any time with at all, and honestly it's very slim pickings.
I have worked in places that feel like the Better Off Ted corp, so I guess I could at least put up with that setting.
Bryan Fuller seems like a good choice, I was going to say Pushing Daisies but I feel like the pining would get to me. Wonderfalls, maybe? Dead Like Me? Hannibal is out for obvious reasons, though I feel like if you had impeccable enough manners you could probably make it through.
Treme had a decent amount of characters that seem like people I'd actually hang out with, at least up to the point where I quit watching because it was a little too emotionally grueling.
Honest answer is probably Spaced, though it feels like cheating because i'm pretty sure that gang is just what everyone's friends were like in the 90s.
I leave shows on in the background and while I sleep so my count for some is sky high. Not even good shows just ones that remind me of when I was younger or have an atmosphere I like, lots of sitcoms
Prohass on
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Sure would be cool if paying for paramount+ ad-free would let me watch paramount+… without ads.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
My partner watches Futurama (or Criminal Minds...or Psych) to go to sleep every, single night, for thirteen years now
I can usually timestamp how long I've been out to within about ten minutes based on what was playing when I started to doze and what episode is playing when I wake up
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
But I must use a white noise machine, or have the window mounted air conditioner running, I have a hell of a time falling asleep in a too quiet environment
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I love to fall asleep to genre television.
A lot of praise can be given to Star Trek: The Next Generation but it truly does excel in serving as background noise while you sneak in a mid-day nap.
Rest your eyes and embrace a pillow, while Will Riker talks to an alien about jazz.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Pushing Daisies is one of my number one TV worlds to live in
I believe that I have the capacity to be a twee but also weirdly dark small business owner if you give me a chance
While lifting today I threw on Pluto TV and found Frasier. The episode is where Frasier, Martin, and Niles are traveling in Martin's Winnebago to celebrate the New Year Millennium.
For some reason they decided to write it as if Martin has just seen Austin Powers so periodically he'll just drop a random line from the movie.
'Shag me rotten! We'll never make it!'
It's a great gag and I would love to know how it got added. Did John Mahoney just see Austin Powers and wanted to ad lib?
I am in the business of saving lives.
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DepressperadoI just wanted to see you laughingin the pizza rainRegistered Userregular
is that the one where Daphne doesn't have her passport or visa or whatever and has to pretend to be American but she can't do an accent?
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
Nah, it's the one where Niles gets into a different Winnebago and it's going the wrong way.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
Spoilers obviously in the article but yeah. Very messy. I was one of the people for sure (think I still am?) who came off disliking Jerrod more and more during each ep
Mad Men is the only show I watched more than once, I think.
Anyway. Caught up on Elsbeth. Show seems so tame compared to other King shows.
I need to organize my thoughts on it some, but I have been disappointed by Elsbeth. I don't hate it, it's inoffensive, but it doesn't pop the way stuff from The Kings usually does.
Even Elsbeth herself seems seems kinda sanded down abit? I remember her being more, I don't know, ruthless?
I'm always waiting not exactly for a twist, but something outside the formula box, a more heightened reality, going further with the commentary on the social/cultural topics in the background of the victims/perpetrators?
Even Elsbeth herself seems seems kinda sanded down abit? I remember her being more, I don't know, ruthless?
I'm always waiting not exactly for a twist, but something outside the formula box, a more heightened reality, going further with the commentary on the social/cultural topics in the background of the victims/perpetrators?
One of my biggest problems is, unfortunately, her, yeah. In previous shows, her game is that she is underestimated as goofy, and then she reveals that she's been doing her homework this whole time. You are left wondering, "How long did she know, how long has she been working this angle, how'd she do it?" It's like a magic trick, it's very satisfying.
In Elsbeth, that "secret hard work" has become "magical hunches," kind of? She sees a little Sherlock clue, she doesn't like someone's vibe, she becomes a dog with a bone. That's not a ruthless tactician playing her own quirks as a disarming tactic - it's just... Every quirky detective procedural. It's no longer a magic trick, it's just somebody shuffling cards.
There's an overall lack of "specificity" that brings down the show. Not much care for the details. The co-op murder was a less flavorful Only Murders in the Building. The reality show murder somehow managed to make it's fake reality stars more boring and less outlandish than the ostensible inspirations. The play the theater was staging was unremarkable enough that it could've been anything at all.
Nobody has any weird hobbies, nobody has an unexpected romance, everything is always just... Straight down the middle.
It's like they're shooting a whole season of first drafts, it feels really underbaked for the Kings, damnedest thing.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I love Elsbeth the character but I’m not shocked that the show doesn’t keep the magic.
Elsbeth works better as a supporting character in my opinion.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
In the second season we're retooling the show.
Elsbeth is out.
We're bringing in Cary Agos.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Posts
I maintain that Mad Men is actually the story of The Inexorable Rise Of Peggy Olson, with some distracting Don or Betty Draper-centric episodes along the way. It is a bit up its own butt though, and Halt and Catch Fire is a more nuanced show.
That said, if you're at all into the craft of television, Mad Men is a must watch imo (and the period detail is impeccable). (oh I see Pooro got here first) Also the first half of the first season is definitely the slowest/least absorbing part.
edit: i will also say that while Mad Men is populated with its fair share of shitheads, it's not trying to be a show about "this is all the ways these people are terrible". Everyone is at least a little bit terrible, in the ways that humans mostly are, but mostly they're simply well-rounded and the discomfort or the terribleness comes from the friction of two or more flawed people forced into professional or conjugal proximity, and sometimes that results in healthy growth (Pete, ffs!) and sometimes it's a toxic nightmare.
Also if you're at all a fan of Jared Harris (and who isn't?) then it's worth watching just to see him get to explore yet another facet of tragic integrity.
Fun fact, watching Oz as it aired means that no matter how long it has been, my first instinct when I see JK Simmons in anything is secret Nazi. It makes seeing him in things like romcons very jarring for that split second before my brain catches up. Also wow I was 14! That was a real choice for a TV show for us to watch as a family!
Because, well, I think Elizabeth and Philip Jennings from The Americans would likely be really fun to hang out with, in some capacity!
They seem like fun brunch folks!! They could probably add some positive energy to a bowling team!
One of the things that makes the first season hard to get through on an initial run is it definitely feels like it's trying to set up each episode to be a 45 minute whisky commercial from 1958, and it takes a while before it self-deconstructs enough to lay bare the meta-narrative of the falsehood of advertising in general and that style of commercial in particular. Among other things, it's a show about how 1950s and 60s American capitalism largely ran on a fragile, white male-centric vision which was simply papering over a succession of deep national traumas, and we begin the show right before the cracks in that whole facade start to appear.
He really does remind me of Ulysses, as in the Odyssey, when I think about it. They're both utter bastards and also, sometimes, they're both sly as a fox.
Goddamn, dude. Goddamn.
I have worked in places that feel like the Better Off Ted corp, so I guess I could at least put up with that setting.
Also, they're really into what you do for a living, and gosh it's nice to meet some empathetic folks.
Have I seen too much B5 when I saw the thumbnail and context of this post and knew exactly which scene it was?
No, it's not enough B5. Time to pull out the DVDs again.
Bryan Fuller seems like a good choice, I was going to say Pushing Daisies but I feel like the pining would get to me. Wonderfalls, maybe? Dead Like Me? Hannibal is out for obvious reasons, though I feel like if you had impeccable enough manners you could probably make it through.
Treme had a decent amount of characters that seem like people I'd actually hang out with, at least up to the point where I quit watching because it was a little too emotionally grueling.
Cats and Poker right?
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
One of these days I will…maybe
I can usually timestamp how long I've been out to within about ten minutes based on what was playing when I started to doze and what episode is playing when I wake up
Same. Scrubs is my depression comfort show so I’ve, uhh… seen the whole thing a few times.
But I must use a white noise machine, or have the window mounted air conditioner running, I have a hell of a time falling asleep in a too quiet environment
A lot of praise can be given to Star Trek: The Next Generation but it truly does excel in serving as background noise while you sneak in a mid-day nap.
Rest your eyes and embrace a pillow, while Will Riker talks to an alien about jazz.
I believe that I have the capacity to be a twee but also weirdly dark small business owner if you give me a chance
For some reason they decided to write it as if Martin has just seen Austin Powers so periodically he'll just drop a random line from the movie.
'Shag me rotten! We'll never make it!'
It's a great gag and I would love to know how it got added. Did John Mahoney just see Austin Powers and wanted to ad lib?
Spoilers obviously in the article but yeah. Very messy. I was one of the people for sure (think I still am?) who came off disliking Jerrod more and more during each ep
Steam
Anyway. Caught up on Elsbeth. Show seems so tame compared to other King shows.
I need to organize my thoughts on it some, but I have been disappointed by Elsbeth. I don't hate it, it's inoffensive, but it doesn't pop the way stuff from The Kings usually does.
I'm always waiting not exactly for a twist, but something outside the formula box, a more heightened reality, going further with the commentary on the social/cultural topics in the background of the victims/perpetrators?
One of my biggest problems is, unfortunately, her, yeah. In previous shows, her game is that she is underestimated as goofy, and then she reveals that she's been doing her homework this whole time. You are left wondering, "How long did she know, how long has she been working this angle, how'd she do it?" It's like a magic trick, it's very satisfying.
In Elsbeth, that "secret hard work" has become "magical hunches," kind of? She sees a little Sherlock clue, she doesn't like someone's vibe, she becomes a dog with a bone. That's not a ruthless tactician playing her own quirks as a disarming tactic - it's just... Every quirky detective procedural. It's no longer a magic trick, it's just somebody shuffling cards.
There's an overall lack of "specificity" that brings down the show. Not much care for the details. The co-op murder was a less flavorful Only Murders in the Building. The reality show murder somehow managed to make it's fake reality stars more boring and less outlandish than the ostensible inspirations. The play the theater was staging was unremarkable enough that it could've been anything at all.
Nobody has any weird hobbies, nobody has an unexpected romance, everything is always just... Straight down the middle.
It's like they're shooting a whole season of first drafts, it feels really underbaked for the Kings, damnedest thing.
Elsbeth works better as a supporting character in my opinion.
Elsbeth is out.
We're bringing in Cary Agos.
His latest show has been cancelled. He should be free
Steam