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Unborking the [Ukraine] discussion

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Posts

  • CrazyPCrazyP Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    The DPR seems like it's been hit by the extremist escalation/purity testing cycle the hardest and there is going to be some truly insane stories coming out of it when this is all over. Don't know if it's just more populous or less homogenous than the other regions, but feels like a lot of the bad news comes from there more often even than Luhansk.

    I'm not that familiar with how the ex-soviet states handled abuses by the secret services, but the ramping up of hate against literally everyone else (unwilling Russians, fellow Ukrainians) seems to have come from almost nowhere and hit insane levels incredibly quickly. As if they're all competing to be the most extreme pastiche of Wagner or the idealised Russian man/soldier as anything less is a sign of disloyalty and would mark you out as a victim for those looking for an opportunity to demonstrate their more extreme loyalty to the ideal.

    Is that something that just evaporates as the madness of war after the fact or something that's going to keep the courts busy for a few decades? I can't see them being that healthy for Russia either if they flee there in a post-Putin world either.

    Different curators probably to blame: DPR was FSB pet project, LPR - GRU (military) project. They even managed to have minor "civil war"\"supported coup attempts" with each other in between Donbass War and current invasion

    Actually hunted down old article of Russian lawyer studying law codex of LPR and DPR and being shocked by his discoveries. You would expect it be just simple lazy copy paste of either local Ukrainian law or Russian law with references ti Ukraine\Russia crossed out and replaced with name of separatist republic.

    Well, LPR law was indeed carbon copy of current day Russian law. DPR o the other hand... First it had familiar law sections contained different number of articles, but often even those present had not simply familiar text with few edits, but rather talked about completely different things - so clearly it was brand new law system, somebody felt inspired to create, rather then lazy work. More of reflection of how this somebody wished to "fix" modern laws in Russia if I have to guess.

    TL;DR:
    • No presumption of innocence
    • No privacy of correspondence (with attorney or anybody)
    • No need for search warrants (well, more like you can sign off warrant and perform search yourself)
    • Can put accused under arrest if court feels like it, no other reason needed
    • Police and prosecution can replace or outright deny accused defense attorney for disagreeing with them
    • Hell, you are actually not guaranteed to even have defense attorney to represent you
    Source: Article in Russian lawyer association newspaper
    https://advstreet.ru/columns/v-advokature-dnr-tsarit-yadernaya-zima/

    So yeah, not surprised at all, that LPR is just plain old "boring" region under martial law and DPR is magnet for violence and power abuse - this is exact sort of society somebody was building there


    Oh did anybody post already that Russia got its own Baghdad Bob? Because Alaudinov. commander of Chechen spetcnaz Tik-Tok Forces, is throwing temper tantrum on social mediaabout "traitorous pro-american military bloggers" mocking him by reposting news from western jouranlists in Ukraini occupied parts of Kursk, while Alaudinov was posting about "failed Ukranina invasion in Kursk" and "Russian Army having everything under control".

    Funny how he was reporting about succesful defence by Russian military and the same time as governors of Belgorod and Kursk were ordering evacuation...
    Soirce: independent Russian news, with links to social media posts
    https://meduza.io/feature/2024/08/16/komandir-spetsnaza-ahmat-apti-alaudinov-chasche-vseh-kommentiruet-ukrainskoe-nastuplenie-v-kurskoy-oblasti

    Ah favorite quips from dude rants:
    Chechen forces did just let enemy in, Ukrainians just cunningly moved in between Chechen positions positions
    Chechen forces did not retreat - they are still at their positions (which are now behind Ukrainian army)
    Chechen forces did not surrender! (Later) Well some are surrender, but this means they are not Chechens anymore (well ok, this comment is actually scary for any prisoners who do come back, knowing what kind of asshole Kadyrov is)

    Родина вернись домой
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    “They did not retreat! They simply advanced toward the rear of their positions!”

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Russian FSB writing a republics lawbook so that it's a dictatorial secret service's wet dream? They would never.../s

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    CrazyP wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    The DPR seems like it's been hit by the extremist escalation/purity testing cycle the hardest and there is going to be some truly insane stories coming out of it when this is all over. Don't know if it's just more populous or less homogenous than the other regions, but feels like a lot of the bad news comes from there more often even than Luhansk.

    I'm not that familiar with how the ex-soviet states handled abuses by the secret services, but the ramping up of hate against literally everyone else (unwilling Russians, fellow Ukrainians) seems to have come from almost nowhere and hit insane levels incredibly quickly. As if they're all competing to be the most extreme pastiche of Wagner or the idealised Russian man/soldier as anything less is a sign of disloyalty and would mark you out as a victim for those looking for an opportunity to demonstrate their more extreme loyalty to the ideal.

    Is that something that just evaporates as the madness of war after the fact or something that's going to keep the courts busy for a few decades? I can't see them being that healthy for Russia either if they flee there in a post-Putin world either.

    Different curators probably to blame: DPR was FSB pet project, LPR - GRU (military) project. They even managed to have minor "civil war"\"supported coup attempts" with each other in between Donbass War and current invasion

    Actually hunted down old article of Russian lawyer studying law codex of LPR and DPR and being shocked by his discoveries. You would expect it be just simple lazy copy paste of either local Ukrainian law or Russian law with references ti Ukraine\Russia crossed out and replaced with name of separatist republic.

    Well, LPR law was indeed carbon copy of current day Russian law. DPR o the other hand... First it had familiar law sections contained different number of articles, but often even those present had not simply familiar text with few edits, but rather talked about completely different things - so clearly it was brand new law system, somebody felt inspired to create, rather then lazy work. More of reflection of how this somebody wished to "fix" modern laws in Russia if I have to guess.

    TL;DR:
    • No presumption of innocence
    • No privacy of correspondence (with attorney or anybody)
    • No need for search warrants (well, more like you can sign off warrant and perform search yourself)
    • Can put accused under arrest if court feels like it, no other reason needed
    • Police and prosecution can replace or outright deny accused defense attorney for disagreeing with them
    • Hell, you are actually not guaranteed to even have defense attorney to represent you
    Source: Article in Russian lawyer association newspaper
    https://advstreet.ru/columns/v-advokature-dnr-tsarit-yadernaya-zima/

    So yeah, not surprised at all, that LPR is just plain old "boring" region under martial law and DPR is magnet for violence and power abuse - this is exact sort of society somebody was building there


    Oh did anybody post already that Russia got its own Baghdad Bob? Because Alaudinov. commander of Chechen spetcnaz Tik-Tok Forces, is throwing temper tantrum on social mediaabout "traitorous pro-american military bloggers" mocking him by reposting news from western jouranlists in Ukraini occupied parts of Kursk, while Alaudinov was posting about "failed Ukranina invasion in Kursk" and "Russian Army having everything under control".

    Funny how he was reporting about succesful defence by Russian military and the same time as governors of Belgorod and Kursk were ordering evacuation...
    Soirce: independent Russian news, with links to social media posts
    https://meduza.io/feature/2024/08/16/komandir-spetsnaza-ahmat-apti-alaudinov-chasche-vseh-kommentiruet-ukrainskoe-nastuplenie-v-kurskoy-oblasti

    Ah favorite quips from dude rants:
    Chechen forces did just let enemy in, Ukrainians just cunningly moved in between Chechen positions positions
    Chechen forces did not retreat - they are still at their positions (which are now behind Ukrainian army)
    Chechen forces did not surrender! (Later) Well some are surrender, but this means they are not Chechens anymore (well ok, this comment is actually scary for any prisoners who do come back, knowing what kind of asshole Kadyrov is)

    So DPR is Putin's 'Project 2025' testbed?

    And, as predicted, it went straight to murdercamps.

  • Mercutio87Mercutio87 So build that wall and build it strong cause We'll be there before too longRegistered User regular
    Meanwhile, Kadyrov pretending to do his part of the group project.
    https://x.com/prestonstew_/status/1824838568860061923

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    That would infer that it's Fascism in service of the people. it would be more accurate to name it "Russia but shittier; That's apparently a thing :("

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    How federal is the Russian federation? Presumably a lot of those things got fixed (other than likely the people writing those laws still being in positions of power) when they were annexed or is the federal Russian government quite hands off as long as it gets it's taxes and conscripts (which would surprise me)?

  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited August 17
    RiemannLives was warned for this.
    Wasnt one of PA's resident Tankies all pro DPR a while back because of Ukraine being all "nazis"? They probably couched it as "just asking questions".

    Zibblsnrt on
    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Whoever it was they’re either not here anymore or they don’t post about it anymore so we don’t have to keep bringing it up

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    edited August 17
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    Inquisitor77 on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    TV Tropes has this as "People's Republic of Tyranny".

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    Bangladesh was a pseudo-democracy that was effectively a dictatorship up until a bunch of angry students and army soldiers chased out the entire ruling government about a week ago (after 300 were killed in a police response to student protests, the government called in the army, then the government high tailed it to India once they heard those magic words “the generals are refusing to give orders to fire on civilians and the soldiers are joining the protests”)

    I don’t know if anyone even knows what it is now, all the interim government positions are occupied by people who up until a few weeks ago were in college, and the interim president is an 84 year old economics professor.

  • mittensmittens he/himRegistered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    I think the general rule is if there are 2 or more of your above list in the name, then it becomes opposite town.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Mercutio87 wrote: »
    Meanwhile, Kadyrov pretending to do his part of the group project.
    https://x.com/prestonstew_/status/1824838568860061923

    Wow, that is... certainly camouflaged.

    asxcjbppb2eo.jpg
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited August 17
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    I think the general rule is if there are 2 or more of your above list in the name, then it becomes opposite town.

    Country names are just silly in general.

    I suspect half as often as not everyone else uses the wrong name for your country because that's not what it said on their old maps (Germany, Egypt, China, Finland, Greece, Japan in English alone etc) and we're loathe to change the names of places without a lot of bloodshed specifically about that. And even then, if it's a really good map...

    I'd also be curious to see if the number of democratic Kingdoms with merely constitutional monarchies outnumbers the authoritarian People's Republics.

    Tastyfish on
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  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    I don’t know if anyone even knows what it is now, all the interim government positions are occupied by people who up until a few weeks ago were in college, and the interim president is an 84 year old economics professor.

    Ah, so it's a countdown until the military takes over.

    cckerberos.png
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    In that vein, it is incredibly depressing when I've had to point out to people I know that when a country has "People", "Republic", "Democratic", or "Socialist" in the name, that doesn't necessarily mean it is any of those things. In fact, there's a decent chance that it's the exact opposite.

    "People" in particular is a pretty big red flag, given that list consists of:

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria
    People’s Republic of Bangladesh
    People’s Republic of China

    So that's basically 1 out of 5 (Bangladesh) which could conceivably be called a democracy, and even then it's a bit shaky, being considered "Partly Free" by Freedom House.

    I think the general rule is if there are 2 or more of your above list in the name, then it becomes opposite town.

    Country names are just silly in general.

    I suspect half as often as not everyone else uses the wrong name for your country because that's not what it said on their old maps (Germany, Egypt, China, Finland, Greece, Japan in English alone etc) and we're loathe to change the names of places without a lot of bloodshed specifically about that. And even then, if it's a really good map...

    I'd also be curious to see if the number of democratic Kingdoms with merely constitutional monarchies outnumbers the authoritarian People's Republics.

    Are you referring to specific titles, or just any reference name?

    Because if it's the latter, while I'm unique enough, MorganV, <street name> <suburb name> Earth, isn't a particularly narrowing address.

    If the former.... what should we call that grumpy uncle between Mexico and Canada?

    More that probably the most significant labels we put on groups of people very rarely match what others call those people let alone what those people call themselves, and if we try and be descriptive of their method of government whilst doing so there's probably more that are completely wrong than accurate.

    I mean it's a full on tangent, but case in point where the bit between the Dominion of Canada and the United Mexican States on the continent of North America clearly doesn't include all the states within it and isn't even the only union of them.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited August 18
    cckerberos wrote: »
    I don’t know if anyone even knows what it is now, all the interim government positions are occupied by people who up until a few weeks ago were in college, and the interim president is an 84 year old economics professor.

    Ah, so it's a countdown until the military takes over.

    That is a pretty big fear right now, yes.

    Definitely at that stage of a revolution where idealists have suddenly kicked out the old bad actors but the new bad actors haven’t quite got their shit together enough to take over yet.

    The military isn’t exactly popular with the people and seems to be split ideologically so who knows though.

    Jealous Deva on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    I don’t know if anyone even knows what it is now, all the interim government positions are occupied by people who up until a few weeks ago were in college, and the interim president is an 84 year old economics professor.

    Ah, so it's a countdown until the military takes over.

    That is a pretty big fear right now, yes.

    Definitely at that stage of a revolution where idealists have suddenly kicked out the old bad actors but the new bad actors haven’t quite got their shit together enough to take over yet.

    The military isn’t exactly popular with the people and seems to be split ideologically so who knows though.

    In many cases it feels like it's more the idealists never really coming to terms with the fact that winning the revolution means that they have to stop trying to kill the people who oppose them.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    8/18 Ukrainian milvlogging tl;dw Ukraine appeared to have consolidated around Sudzha, reinforcing it as a hub, and stopped trying to push much further NE of that. There was a potential axis of advance straight east towards Gir'i, enabled by bridges being cut/controlled along the river preventing flank attacks, but Gir'i is where Russian resistance appears to be stiffening. Instead Ukraine continues to be probing west and northwest towards Korenevo and Glushkovo, bringing online more cross border attacks to angle in from another direction towards Glushkovo. If they can take Glushkovo, that enables outflanking and/or completing the encirclement of Korenevo.

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    I am entirely in favour of Kadyrov's forces getting all the Cybertruck technicals they want, if just because I've seen what happens when people try to take those things into any kind of rugged, messy or (in time) cold terrain.
    They might as well rename the Donetsk People's Republic to the Fascist People's Republic.

    I figure the "People's Republic" bit generally implies the "Fascist" bit, so that might be redundant.

    No, it implies "Commies".

    Greater Republic implies Fascist.

    The DPR has that name because it implies a popular support instead of Astro-turfed puppet state. It also harkens back to the Soviet Era when Russia was one of the big two empires that carved the world in half aka the good old days for Putin and Pals.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »

    Always great to watch the greatest power point presenter of our times at work.

    This video gave me a thought.

    You know how we have thought that Ukraine has infiltrated sabotage, demo and other types of intel special forces group into Russia before? Because shit gets sabotaged even hundreds if not thousands of miles away from the front.

    And how Ukrainians look like Russians, can speak exactly like Russians and know enough Russian cultural cues to blend in.

    If I was running the Ukrainian version of the OSS, I'd have leapt onto this offensive as the ideal time to slip infiltrators in.

    Chaos and people fleeing deeper into Russia. The cover provides itself.

    Or am I being overly optimistic?

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    One thing that jumped out for me in that video was the mention of Russia committing Iskander missiles to individual tanks, which seems ludicrously excessive and unsustainable on top of its using up missiles that would (in theory) be meant for actual operational or strategic targets instead.

    That feels like the kind of thing that happens when there's a lot of panicking going on on the defending side, at least if they aren't using them that pinpointedly in the rest of the war.

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    V1m wrote: »
    Here. We. Go.

    Chaos and people fleeing deeper into Russia. The cover provides itself.

    Or am I being overly optimistic?

    I had thought along similar lines, but then remembered that those people are then spies rather than soldiers and this is the crime of Perfidy.
    Ukraine has skirted this in the past recently by just turning up and bitching about Russian superiors which led to them being assumed to be Russian soldiers, but without getting changed out of their uniforms I don't think this counts.

    Tastyfish on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    There's an unsubstantiated video floating around of Ukrainian soldiers burning the papers tracking known draft dodgers in Kursk.

    Kinda funny, if true. I wonder what the long-term effects of something like that would be, given we live in the digital age and centralized databases should be a thing...

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Under normal circumstances I wouldn't be surprised if Russian filing systems were such that these were the only copies, but we're also talking about a regime that loves to go the extra mile to be vindictive and set examples so I wouldn't be surprised if draft dodgers were the specific instance where they really make sure no names are lost.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    There's an unsubstantiated video floating around of Ukrainian soldiers burning the papers tracking known draft dodgers in Kursk.

    Kinda funny, if true. I wonder what the long-term effects of something like that would be, given we live in the digital age and centralized databases should be a thing...

    The FSB, being fully aware of how vulnerable digital systems are, are big fans of paper only for classified information. So it depends on how sensitive they consider those papers.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_80rUKItGc

    Anders Puck Nielsen makes the claim that ultimately, Putin may decide to respond to the Ukrainian invasion near Kursk by actually using the conscript force that Russia has in the war, instead of keeping them separate from the fighting force in Ukraine.

    And as a related point, if that's the case then the slow Russian response might not be paralysis or bad leadership in the Russian Command structure, but rather Putin feeling out the internal political ramifications of using the conscript force to fight.

    Feels like a useful insight to me, but we'll see what happens.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    new deliveries from Germany to Ukraine

    1 air defence system IRIS-T SLS
    14,000 rounds 155mm ammunition
    10 unmanned surface vessels
    24 reconnaissance drones VECTOR with spare parts
    material for explosive ordnance disposal
    6 High Mobility Engineer Excavators
    1 armoured recovery vehicle Bergepanzer 2 with spare parts
    55,000 first aid kits
    700 assault rifles MK 556
    10 precision rifles HLR 338
    50 rifles CR 308

    Also due to ongoing budget problems/disputes in the gov coalition and the constitutional balanced budget amendment any further requests for new support packages for 2024 and 2025 by the defence ministry will not be granted. Only the already allocated 7 billion for 2024 and 4 billion € for 2025 will be delivered.
    Any further new orders are to be financed grom the planned G7 50 billion € package financed by out of Russian assets (which might not actually happen, at least it's not quite sure yet)

    So this is what Ukraine might expect from Germany for now:
    Military support to Ukraine in planning/in execution

    (due to security concerns, the Federal Government abstains from providing details on transportation modalities and dates until after handover)
    Armoured fighting vehicles

    20 infantry fighting vehicles MARDER*
    77 LEOPARD 1 A5 main battle tanks* (joint project with Denmark and the Netherlands)
    ammunition for main battle tanks for LEOPARD 2 and LEOPARD 1*
    ammunition for infantry fighting vehicles MARDER*

    Air defence

    2 air defence systems SKYNEX with ammunition*
    IRIS-T SLM/SLS missiles*
    15 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD*
    8 air defence systems IRIS-T SLM*
    9 air defence systems IRIS-T SLS*
    3 air surveillance radar TRML-4D*
    GEPARD ammunition*

    Artillery

    36 wheeled self-propelled howitzers RCH 155*
    18 self-propelled howitzers Panzerhaubitze 2000
    more than 120,000 projectiles 122mm*
    more than 200,000 projectiles 155mm*
    14 wheeled self-propelled howitzer Zuzana 2* (project jointly financed with Denmark and Norway)

    Drones and counter-UAV systems

    187 reconnaissance drones VECTOR*
    11 anti-drone sensors and jammers*
    20 unmanned surface vessels*

    Helicopter

    6 Sea King Mk41 multi-role helicopters with spare parts

    Military Engineering Capabilities

    4 mine clearing tanks WISENT*
    10 armoured recovery vehicles Bergepanzer 2*
    4 armoured engineer vehicles DACHS*
    material for explosive ordnance disposal*
    1 mobile, remote controlled and protected mine clearing systems*
    4 bridge-laying tanks BEAVER*
    2 mobile and protected mine clearing systems Ahlmann*

    Protective and Special Equipment

    1,660 combat helmets*
    725 laser range finders*
    8 AMPS self-protection systems for helicopters*
    10,000 safety glasses*
    10 mobile reconnaissance systems SurveilSPIRE*
    237 border protection vehicles*
    11 communications electronic scanner/jammer systems*

    Logistics

    8 tankers Zetros*
    20 Zetros refrigerator trucks*
    5 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh*
    1 load-handling trucks 8x6 with 7 roll of containers*
    2 tractors and 4 trailers*

    Combat Readiness and Survivability

    1,875 assault rifles MK 556*
    319 CR 308
    8.6 million rounds of ammunition for fire arms*
    8.000 anti-tank mines PARM*
    260 precision rifles HLR 338*
    15,000 man-portable anti-tank weapons*
    2 dental sterilizers
    88,000 rounds ammunition 40mm for grenade launchers*
    continuing deliveries of medical material*
    https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992

    honovere on
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Still providing large quantities of those sniper rifles, I see. How many is that now? Must be well into the thousands.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Still providing large quantities of those sniper rifles, I see. How many is that now? Must be well into the thousands.

    In April it was 500 HL338 rifles. Since each batch includes in average of 10-25 rifles it's probably still "Less than 600".

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    250 actually, with 260 more pledged

    the CR308 is just a regular assault rifle


  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    dic55duf8y5o.jpg

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Still providing large quantities of those sniper rifles, I see. How many is that now? Must be well into the thousands.

    In April it was 500 HL338 rifles. Since each batch includes in average of 10-25 rifles it's probably still "Less than 600".

    I'm sure they've sent multiple batches by now? I remember remarking on them a while ago

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    250 actually, with 260 more pledged

    the CR308 is just a regular assault rifle

    Aren't the CR308s sent to Ukraine the HMR variant (ie optimized as sharpshooters/designated marksman's rifle)? Ie not a sniper rifle, but not a "regular assault rifle" either.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
This discussion has been closed.