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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - Competency? In government?!

klemmingklemming Registered User regular
edited July 11 in Debate and/or Discourse
This is the centre of the known universe:
duw4sgqa1jjq.png
Surrounding that is the satellite areas; less important, but still afforded the privilege of existence and theoretical support:
sfyuhvte6727.png
(you can go ahead and ignore that bit in the bottom right, I really don't know how that got there)
All other places that you may hear about are statistical anomalies, and can be safely ignored.*
*Taken from briefing materials given to new MPs at Westminster, veracity unknown.

This is a thread for discussing politics relating to England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Eire, and a number of other smaller islands nearby or not so nearby.

We're about to go into the May 2nd Local Elections, where people across the country are expected to unite behind the Conservatives thanks to them planning to send small numbers of asylum seekers to Rwanda at tremendous expense. Or vote against them in staggering numbers in light of their continual incompetence. One or the other.
Scotland is also looking at the possibility of fresh elections, as First Minister and SNP leader Humza Yousaf has just announced his resignation after personally obliterating the power-sharing agreement with the Green Party that was keeping him in power.
And Britain is also expecting a general election sooner rather than later, as soon as soon-to-be-former Prime Minister Rishi Sunak decides to release his death-grip on the job as he haemorrhages support and MPs. Failing that, he'll be forced to let go by January next year.


Update from July: Well, that happened. On the positive side, Labour are in power with a massive majority, and the Tories have less seats than at any time in history. On the downside, we can expect to hear from Nigel Farage on a regular basis for the next five years. you win some, you lose some I guess.

Discuss!

Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
klemming on
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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited April 29
    Voting day is the same day as I have to get picks in for Fantasy F1, so look forward to me voting for the PCC for Fastest Lap and Max Verstappen to the local council

    Snicketysnick on
    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited April 29
    I already sent off my postal vote/did a democracy. Greens all the way.

    The Tories gave kindness and compassion a label, then started calling it an 'ideology'.

    All in service of trying to delete it from the human heart.

    But outside of London, there are more good and kind, decent people than they, the shallow men, the hollow and cruel, would ever realise.

    So every time they complain about there being 100 genders, we'll add 1000 more, just because seeing them throw toddler temper tantrums gives me so much pleasure in life. Cope harder. B)>:)

    Zilla360 on
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited April 29
    Zoe Williams' column in the Graun regarding prospective PIP "reform" (ugh) is an incendiary delight.

    A few choice quotes, but the whole thing (it's not long) is worth a read:

    Yes, prime minister, it’s a scandal so many of us are signed off work. Maybe you Tories should stop making us ill
    The UK does not have a sicknote problem. It has a government-couldn’t-care-less problem

    Another week, another phantom menace for Rishi Sunak. The people he is talking about, regarding his benefit reforms, do not exist. The 1.35 million people who could work but just don’t want to, who have a label of depression or anxiety but are just a little bit sad, who could have their benefits replaced by vouchers and find that incentivising: these people do not exist.

    ...

    Those with depression and anxiety severe enough to claim a personal independence payment (Pip) are catastrophically unwell. If numbers have surged over the past 14 years, which they have, it is because Conservative governments make you catastrophically unwell.

    ...

    ...child and adolescent mental health services in particular are now so poor as to be almost nonexistent. There are areas of the country where a child can wait so long for help that by the time it arrives, four years later, they are no longer a child.

    ...

    Poverty is driving down life expectancy and driving up infant mortality – and, along the way, it’s destroying people’s sanity.

    ...

    If there is anything more disgusting than the sight of a half-billionaire rolling up his sleeves for a “benefits crackdown” in the middle of a cost of living crisis, the realities of which he wouldn’t be able to imagine even if it occurred to him to try, I can’t think of it.

    Jazz on
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    The only election for me is the utterly pointless boondoggle that is the Police and Crime Commissioner.

    Literally pointless. Every candidate’s manifesto reads like a chatgpt re-write of all the others.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    The only election for me is the utterly pointless boondoggle that is the Police and Crime Commissioner.

    Literally pointless. Every candidate’s manifesto reads like a chatgpt re-write of all the others.

    Same here.
    I'm just voting for the Independent option because I'd prefer it if the Police and Crime Commissioner was at least theoretically not beholden to a particular political position.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    That was always the promise when bringing them in, but almost immediately every candidate appeared to have ties to or support from one of the political parties

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    When I lived down south the issue with the PCCs was that the turnout for them was so low that there was a very high risk the poll would be dominated by the highly motivated supporters of the crank or extremist candidates

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Anyone seeing anything more concrete about why Yousaf crapped himself so spectacularly? Nuking the carbon emission targets and then kicking out the Greens before they could even have a vote on whether to quit the government was so stupid that I'm almost willing to consider that burning down the SNP was the plan. Just pure WTF.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Occam's Razor, Yousaf is an idiot and shouldn't have been leader. He seems to be the Liz Truss of the SNP.

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt he's not just a straight up moron but especially since this all went down he's been showing obvious signs of burnout.

    It seems like he wasn't up to the pressure of the job and that's what has led him here.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt he's not just a straight up moron but especially since this all went down he's been showing obvious signs of burnout.

    It seems like he wasn't up to the pressure of the job and that's what has led him here.

    There was so much palpable relief in his resignation speech, I think you're right. When he told his wife she'd be seeing a lot more of him now he sounded like he was about to crack into tears of joy.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    He's had his own share of troubles (like, family trapped in Gaza troubles), so I don't think the last year is going to go down as a highlight for him in any sense.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    I can't imagine how he and his family felt at their Gaza situation. And even as the most powerful politician in Scotland there was jack shit he could do about it.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    Occam's Razor, Yousaf is an idiot and shouldn't have been leader. He seems to be the Liz Truss of the SNP.

    That seems a bit harsh? He was up against Kate Forbes, who looked likely then to win the leadership, until people started asking her about abortion, same sex marriages, not supporting the Gender Recognition Reform Bill.

    She voted according to her "faith", but not long before the leadership vote took place, she trotted out the meaningless "I pledge to protect everyone's right" line. We've seen how that works in other parts of the world, and how much it's worth once someone gets into power.

    I can't imagine the coalition with the coalition with the Greens would have stuck?

    Redcoat-13 on
    PSN Fleety2009
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Occam's Razor, Yousaf is an idiot and shouldn't have been leader. He seems to be the Liz Truss of the SNP.

    That seems a bit harsh? He was up against Kate Forbes, who looked likely then to win the leadership, until people started asking her about abortion, same sex marriages, not supporting the Gender Recognition Reform Bill.

    She voted according to her "faith", but not long before the leadership vote took place, she trotted out the meaningless "I pledge to protect everyone's right" line. We've seen how that works in other parts of the world, and how much it's worth once someone gets into power.

    I can't imagine the coalition with the coalition with the Greens would have stuck?

    It wouldn't

    Given that the usual suspects are proposing Kate Forbes again, the Greens have already said that it would rule out any kind of agreement

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    I have limited sympathy for him since he ran for the job. And if the alternative is Kate Forbes then the SNP has a real problem and needs to address that. He wanted the job, got the job, was bad at the job, it was stressful, he fucked up, he quit.

    He should have resigned prior to fucking up if he wanted stress sympathy.

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I feel like he expected things to go as smoothly as most of Nichola Sturgeons tenure. Unfortunately for him he simply didn't have the same amount of control over the party she did and the manner of her exit created turmoil to boot.

    He wanted to be a caretaker of a steady ship instead he was helming during constant storms and crisis.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited May 1
    Did a democracy, via post (last day to get it in, but I've not been well lately to go out). Only got the PCC election here, but it's still something.

    It's not been long since the county council by-election, so it feels weird having another one already.

    Vote early, vote often, as the saying goes :lol:

    Jazz on
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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Yeah my work sent out a call for people to be at a polling station; I'd have been paid an additional amount, and not lost my annual leave. My wife said she chatted to a friend and said previous elections, it was great.

    I pointed out to my wife that her friend was at a polling station in a village, and that one I was being asked to be at, was in a city (I'm not sure how much say I would have in where I'd be put). And it might have been the first time dealing with ID issues.

    Also, 6am-11pm is a slog, and I probably would have taken the next day off to effectively recover. I also need a break every so often from dealing with the general public.

    Maybe next time I'll do more democracy.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I have 2 votes to give tomorrow, and 7 people to choose from. Ditch the tories and that leaves 5. Only 1 of these has a website, and he's an incumbant Green who I will vote for because he and one of the tories are the only 2 people to actually live in the ward.

    No idea how I'm supposed to choose between the remaining 4 (2 labour, 1 other green, 1 lib dem). Each party has a page talking about the local election but they all say the same waffly bullshit.

    I took a very long quiz to see which party lines up best with my politics and I got a 90% match for... Green, labour, and lib dem. Thank you, quiz, very useful.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    The daily mail is reporting that a few Rwandan deportation flights are already scheduled this week to coincide with the elections.
    I'm not seeing corroborated reports elsewhere though, unless I missed something, so they could just be engaging in fake propoganda/bullshit that makes the average xenophobic voters dicks hard. 🙄😥

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited May 1
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    The daily mail is reporting that a few Rwandan deportation flights are already scheduled this week to coincide with the elections.
    I'm not seeing corroborated reports elsewhere though, unless I missed something, so they could just be engaging in fake propoganda/bullshit that makes the average xenophobic voters dicks hard. 🙄😥

    These are people going voluntarily (something that airlines don't feel wary about, because it just amounts to the government paying for a ticket on a regular flight).
    We won't be able to force people onto planes until June or so, and until then we're clearly not being cruel enough, so it doesn't count.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Guardian this morning
    Anas Sarwar’s motion of no confidence in Yousaf’s administration – which would have forced all government ministers to resign – was defeated by 70 votes to 58 on Wednesday afternoon after the Greens voted with the SNP.

    Apparently there will be a statement from Swinney at 1030, following an "informal meeting" between him and Forbes on Tuesday

    If there's going to be a ballot for SNP leader (i.e. if there are multiple nominated candidates), it will run from the 13th to the 27th of May, nominations close on Monday

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Sounds like the fix is in. Swinney and Forbes.

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    I'm never sure what to make about accusations of it being a "fix"

    FM isn't an elected position, and it's not clear that a ballot of party members is intrinsically more transparent or democratic than selection by the parliamentary party, and election by the parliament

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    I mean...we all moaned about the multiple unelected PMs. Just doing a deal with no input can be seen as political shenanigans- better to announce the new pair and then call an election.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Given Forbes views on certain social issues, I'm willing to give any possible deal involving her the old stink eye.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    I mean...we all moaned about the multiple unelected PMs. Just doing a deal with no input can be seen as political shenanigans- better to announce the new pair and then call an election.

    I'm not sure whether you mean announce them as candidates for party leader and hold a ballot of party members (which is the possibility under discussion) or if you mean there should be a Scottish parliamentary election (which the parliament could have voted for on Tuesday but didn't)

    Neither the Scottish parliament nor Westminster systems elect first/prime ministers, because they're not elected positions

    In the Westminster case, my issue with e.g. Truss is that situation was created specifically by placing the decision about leadership in the hands of the (notoriously small in number and unusually extreme) conservative party membership

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Forbes would surely be electoral suicide? The SNP is seriously going to consider an anti-abortion FM???

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    That they made it through the no-confidence vote with the Greens help is surely going to send a message. I doubt the Greens would willingly work with Forbes, even if she could keep a straight face enough to propose it. It sounds like Swinney could be palatable to them, but who would work with Forbes to get them the majority they need? And whoever it is, how much of the SNP would they alienate to do it?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Everyone remember to take your ID with you when you vote today to help combat the massive amounts of electoral fraud that has been plaguing the nation.

    Wait, I'm getting word
    In the past 5 years, there is no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.

    Of the 1,462 cases of alleged electoral fraud reported to police between 2019 and 2023, 10 led to convictions and the police issued 4 cautions.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Well of course there's no large-scale electoral fraud, we have a photo ID requirement.

    See, it works, just like my anti-bear bracelet.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    No evidence? Wow, those fraudsters are good

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    My democracy was done a couple of weeks ago by post and I'm still not entirely clear why I didn't have to do any more to validate who I was than I'd done in previous years, if voter fraud is supposed to be such a big issue that we need to show ID at a polling station.

    I've never subscribed to the belief that there was widespread postal voting fraud of any kind, but I can see that if you were going to try to commit electoral fraud then postal votes might be the easiest way to do it - and yet it's the in-person option that's had additional steps added to it? It's almost like it's not the fraud they're worried about at all...

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I think I saw something a few years ago where they concluded that the photo ID thing was hurting the tory portion of the vote more than anyone else? I'm certain I saw an interview or something where JRM was musing that maybe there wasn't such a big fraud problem after all...

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Yeah, I thought the problem with postal votes was the head of the household collecting everybody's ballots and filling them in the same way, or something

    Which, let's be honest, sounds pretty Tory to me

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Non-dom QQ's and threatens to take his ball and go away
    He said he had formed a working group of 29 non-doms, who mostly planned to leave the UK before September so that they could secure places for their children in private schools in their new countries before the start of the academic year.

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Non-dom QQ's and threatens to take his ball and go away
    He said he had formed a working group of 29 non-doms, who mostly planned to leave the UK before September so that they could secure places for their children in private schools in their new countries before the start of the academic year.

    Good, fuck off. Pay taxes like everyone else or piss off.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Good fucking riddance? Honestly it seems like the tax would be easily replaced if people had more spending power and our industries were not owned by foreign powers, don't need billionaire greedy cunts who were dodging tax anyway.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I think I saw something a few years ago where they concluded that the photo ID thing was hurting the tory portion of the vote more than anyone else? I'm certain I saw an interview or something where JRM was musing that maybe there wasn't such a big fraud problem after all...

    I remember that too, the JRM thing at least. Can't be arsed to google anything involving that fuckmuppet though. Also it was really all academic when he said it after they made it law.

    Can't see Labour repealing it, so I guess we'd best get used to it.

    pezgen wrote: »
    My democracy was done a couple of weeks ago by post and I'm still not entirely clear why I didn't have to do any more to validate who I was than I'd done in previous years, if voter fraud is supposed to be such a big issue that we need to show ID at a polling station.

    I've never subscribed to the belief that there was widespread postal voting fraud of any kind, but I can see that if you were going to try to commit electoral fraud then postal votes might be the easiest way to do it - and yet it's the in-person option that's had additional steps added to it? It's almost like it's not the fraud they're worried about at all...

    As another postal democracier, I have wondered the same thing. Fill in my DOB and sign in a box. The irony that I am privileged to have at least three valid forms of photo ID to hand is not lost on me.

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