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Privacy, data collection, and you

OrcaOrca Also known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered User regular
edited June 12 in Debate and/or Discourse
Your car is spying on you.

Verisk, a data vendor that sells detailed driver behavior to insurers has shut down that business, but LexisNexis continues selling that data.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/06/one-of-the-major-sellers-of-detailed-driver-behavioral-data-is-shutting-down/

Yes, your insurance is using this information if you haven't opted out of data collection. It's not entirely clear if opting out of data collection is sufficient.

Your cellphone is spying on you.
The research, entitled Mobile Handset Privacy: Measuring The Data iOS and Android Send to Apple And Google (PDF), also found that Google collects up to 20 times more data from its Android Pixel users compared to the amount of data that Apple collects from iOS users.

“The phone IMEI, hardware serial number, SIM serial number and IMSI, handset phone number etc. are shared with Apple and Google,” according to the report. “When a SIM is inserted, both iOS and Google Android send details to Apple/Google. iOS sends the MAC addresses of nearby devices, e.g. other handsets and the home gateway, to Apple, together with their GPS location. Currently there are few, if any, realistic options for preventing this data sharing.”

Microsoft's Recall has been withdrawn (for now) from a preview build of Windows 11 after heavy criticism about the privacy implications of taking and storing unredacted screenshots of your screen, then indexing what can be recognized from it. They're changing it to opt-in instead of opt-out. For now.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/after-heavy-criticism-of-windows-recall-microsoft-changes-tack-on-the-ai-tool/

We live in a surveillance society. This thread is for the discussion of current events in privacy and data collection. I'm taking it as a given that privacy matters, especially given the repeal of Roe v. Wade and what it means for women needing medical care.

Orca on
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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    From Ars Technica's article on telematics:
    But a concrete example of this was reported by The New York Times' Kashmir Hill, in which drivers of GM vehicles were finding insurance more expensive, or impossible to acquire, because of the kinds of reports sent along the chain from GM to data brokers to insurers. Those who requested their collected data from the brokers found details of every trip they took: times, distances, and every "hard acceleration" or "hard braking event," among other data points.

    While the data was purportedly coming from an opt-in "Smart Driver" program in GM cars, many customers reported having no memory of opting in to the program or believing that dealership salespeople activated it themselves or rushed them through the process.

    I'm not sure what I'll do when the time comes to replace my car that is too old to have cell telematics installed in it. My reading of current vehicles is everybody is doing it, and opting out isn't easy or clear. Usually you can't just pull the fuse without disabling other parts of the entertainment system. It might be possible to yank the antenna, but I'm not expecting it to be easy or common.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    We need HIPAA For Everything.

    HIPAA (the Health Information Portability and Accountability Act) addresses data capture via economic incentive - in short, it creates a cost for keeping data, by making companies liable for data breaches, even if it wasn't their fault (and if it was, the hammer gets bigger.) As a result, data capture now has to be balanced with the cost of protecting that data - and it's that balancing that causes companies to rethink what they're pulling in.

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Because privacy also includes privacy breaches, we also have a hack of Ticketmaster (among others) due to a hack in Cloud storage privider Snowflake's infrastructure.

    https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/06/ticketmaster-and-several-other-snowflake-customers-hacked/
    a hacking group calling itself ShinyHunters...sought $500,000 for the Ticketmaster data, which the group claimed included full names, addresses, phone numbers, and partial credit card numbers for 560 million customers.

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    We need HIPAA For Everything.

    HIPAA (the Health Information Portability and Accountability Act) addresses data capture via economic incentive - in short, it creates a cost for keeping data, by making companies liable for data breaches, even if it wasn't their fault (and if it was, the hammer gets bigger.) As a result, data capture now has to be balanced with the cost of protecting that data - and it's that balancing that causes companies to rethink what they're pulling in.

    Agreed. The toxic waste model for data should be what we see, where it's something to be contained and gotten rid of as soon as possible, instead of the oil extraction model we have now, where all data is up for extraction, collation, and refining into actionable data that insurers and advertisers love to use.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    We need HIPAA For Everything.

    HIPAA (the Health Information Portability and Accountability Act) addresses data capture via economic incentive - in short, it creates a cost for keeping data, by making companies liable for data breaches, even if it wasn't their fault (and if it was, the hammer gets bigger.) As a result, data capture now has to be balanced with the cost of protecting that data - and it's that balancing that causes companies to rethink what they're pulling in.

    We also need real penalties. Something with teeth, not just .003 seconds worth of revenue.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    We need HIPAA For Everything.

    HIPAA (the Health Information Portability and Accountability Act) addresses data capture via economic incentive - in short, it creates a cost for keeping data, by making companies liable for data breaches, even if it wasn't their fault (and if it was, the hammer gets bigger.) As a result, data capture now has to be balanced with the cost of protecting that data - and it's that balancing that causes companies to rethink what they're pulling in.

    We also need real penalties. Something with teeth, not just .003 seconds worth of revenue.

    That's part of what makes HIPAA work (especially after HITECH, which improved the law's handling of digital data) - for an unintentional release, the fine is up to $10k per incident, and each breach is a separate incident. So if your mailer has an oopsie and sends 100 explanations of benefits to the wrong people - that's a potential $1M fuckup. Data breaches can very easily rack up 8-9 figure fines, as we've seen with things like the Anthem breach.

    (That fuckup had me spending a week in the SQL mines researching how exposed my employer is, but I'm not bitter about it...much.)

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Which is super frustrating because there are a lot of legitimately good uses for Tile and AirTag! And of course assholes were going to take advantage of it and do bad shit. I don't know that I can hold these companies responsible for the stalking, but I can hold them responsible for not doing a better job to prevent it.

    And fuck Tile giving the info to cops.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Interestingly, I recently got a notification from Google Maps that they're moving location history to be stored on devices rather than on the cloud. I wonder what happened there, did some sort of new regulation come up?

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    jothki wrote: »
    Interestingly, I recently got a notification from Google Maps that they're moving location history to be stored on devices rather than on the cloud. I wonder what happened there, did some sort of new regulation come up?

    If I remember correctly it started with Google halting location tracking around things like abortion clinics and other particularly sensitive, mostly health-related locations a couple of years ago, out of a mix of "actually protect people" and "we don't want to deal with the inevitable post-Roe fishing expeditions we know are coming," and it snowballed from there. It's probably much easier to just not store it off-device at all than it is to constantly maintain a list of specific locations where theyt won't.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    More privacy and hacking related fun, Mircosoft knew about the vulnerabilities in their systems before Solar Winds and did nothing because $$$$$.
    To Harris, who had previously spent nearly seven years working for the Defense Department, it was a security nightmare. Anyone using the software was exposed, regardless of whether they used Microsoft or another cloud provider such as Amazon. But Harris was most concerned about the federal government and the implications of his discovery for national security. He flagged the issue to his colleagues.

    They saw it differently, Harris said. The federal government was preparing to make a massive investment in cloud computing, and Microsoft wanted the business. Acknowledging this security flaw could jeopardize the company’s chances, Harris recalled one product leader telling him. The financial consequences were enormous. Not only could Microsoft lose a multibillion-dollar deal, but it could also lose the race to dominate the market for cloud computing.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    That's is the same fucking mindset I've run into with some folks in the past regarding reporting on vulnerabilities/breaches/areas we're falling short. Why is it that I'm the only one (in my circle) that believes that reporting on found vulnerabilities and mitigation attempts makes people MORE likely to trust you and believe you know what you are doing? All hiding vulnerabilities does is makes people suspicious of you, and at worst it can make things fester and become a much bigger problem. The money or PR people, though.. it's this black eye that will cost us!

    Yes. Someone is going to ask "why did this get here in the first place?" To which you answer, "we missed it because of staffing/structural issues / not being creative enough. And here's how we are fixing it, and how we'll prove we fixed it." This builds trust and familiarity.. but everyone is so afraid of being punished for speaking openly that it never seems to happen.

    And to be clear, I am not saying that we should advertise our fuckups to the whole world. I'm not in marketing/PR, and I would never speak on my employer's behalf. Some things you don't want to broadcast. But fixing vulnerabilities is a massive win.



    ... Maybe I'm just salty about the time I found a client's server being used as a command and control machine for a botnet, and I wanted to tell the client and the FBI and have them go over that server with a fine-toothed comb to figure out what kind of information they could find out, and I was told no because it would make us look bad for letting the server be compromised in the first place.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    It is a bit of a prisoner's dilemma.

    Revealing a breach is bad. Hiding a breach and being caught doing so is significantly worse. Successfully hiding a breach is best outcome. (Ignoring the "never even know you are breached").

    But there are far too few real punishments so rolling the dice on "try to hide" is usually worth it. Especially if you messed up and helped cause it, like having a vulnerable test server connected to the prod enviornment or storing passwords in plaintext.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 13
    there's two different kinds of data collection....

    A) Ticketmaster and Amazon need to know who you are and how you're paying to conduct a transaction and deliver an item, etc...

    B ) Microsoft taking a video of every action you take on your computer forever, your car dealership selling your telemetry to data brokers, random app store apps leaving your mic open so you can get ad targeted better


    A I think is intractable. Shit happens, I think 90% or more people are willing to accept the risks and tradeoffs associated with ecommerce, the banking system is equipped to deal with systemic fraud, and realistically you face greater personal financial threats through many other vectors almost every day


    B... is awful. its so awful it cannot even be encapsulated in a forum post. There is virtual no social good that can be derived from this other than it makes advertising 3% better (??) maybe? I can envision a future where the next political generation collectively decides that there's no reason why we have to put up with this at all and choose a better life for ourselves, making all forms of this type of data collection explicitly opt-in only with big flashing lights around every opt-in request.

    The thing about all this data tracking stuff is that its mega evil and invasive while also still managing to deliver very little value? like, using the sum total of the computational might of planet earth, Amazon still, upon seeing that I have purchased a rice cooker, will recommend that I buy several dozen more rice cookers afterward...

    my insurance company, upon seeing my driving habits, will still charge me more every year no matter what I do

    and i get very annoyed when I see pro-business arguments made in defense of this stuff as though it has existed for centuries... like, we had a perfectly good internet that everybody liked for nearly two decades before anyone thought of establishing a surveillance economy... we can go back to that any time we want

    Jasconius on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Agreed that the most galling thing about about privacy invasion for advertising is that it doesn't even work. A few years ago I connected to the free wifi at my dentist's office and Google started serving me ads for fucking drills the following week. When I researched a major appliance at a Best Buy with my wife before making a purchase, her Facebook feed bombarded her with ads for similar appliances as if buying more than one refrigerator was a normal thing.

    All these awful consequences to corporate surveillance and it's not even useful for achieving their primary goal anymore now that their algorithms have been gamed into oblivion.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    As someone whose job it is to minimize this: it's bad y'all. And people are often mad at the wrong companies.

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    edited June 13
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Apple on iOS 17.5:

    Tracking Notifications
    Cross-Platform Tracking Detection delivers notifications to users if a compatible Bluetooth tracker they do not own is moving with them, regardless of what operating system the device is paired with

    knitdan on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Cool - what if you don't have an iOS device? Or if you are in a situation where you are legitimately dealing with AirTags you don't own?

    This isn't a fix, but a bandaid that doesn't address the issue (though at this point, I don't know if there is a technical fix.)

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    knitdan wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Cool - what if you don't have an iOS device? Or if you are in a situation where you are legitimately dealing with AirTags you don't own?

    This isn't a fix, but a bandaid that doesn't address the issue (though at this point, I don't know if there is a technical fix.)

    It will show notifications on Android devices as well. Apple and Google teamed up to develop an industry wide specification to combat this issue.

    iOS 17.5 is implementing this cross-platform specification.

    At least that’s what I’m getting from this press release I’m looking at.

    mcdermott on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    mcdermott wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Cool - what if you don't have an iOS device? Or if you are in a situation where you are legitimately dealing with AirTags you don't own?

    This isn't a fix, but a bandaid that doesn't address the issue (though at this point, I don't know if there is a technical fix.)

    It will show notifications on Android devices as well. Apple and Google teamed up to develop an industry wide specification to combat this issue.

    iOS 17.5 is implementing this cross-platform specification.

    At least that’s what I’m getting from this press release I’m looking at.

    My Android phone already at least claims to be able to warn you if it notices an unknown tracker following you.

    jothki on
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    thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy Janitor of Technical Debt .Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Apple on iOS 17.5:

    Tracking Notifications
    Cross-Platform Tracking Detection delivers notifications to users if a compatible Bluetooth tracker they do not own is moving with them, regardless of what operating system the device is paired with

    My understanding is that this workaround still requires you to have location services turned on which is basically just opening the door for other avenues of tracking and surveillance.

    It's a bad solution for people that don't want to have Find My or Location Services always on.

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Typically when you ask Tim Cook what the solution is for someone that doesn't have an iPhone, his answer is that they should get an iPhone.

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Oh hey, Tile has an internal tool to report location data to cops! Also, someone hacked it.

    Oh, let's talk about Tile, AirTag, and all these other technologies that are near purpose built to enable harassment, abuse, stalking, and worse. Because it turns out that it's very easy to do things like modify an AirTag to disable the speaker, and now you have a small, easily concealable tracker that can be surreptitiously planted.

    Not saying this is a complete fix, but Apple’s latest iOS update makes it so you get a warning if any AirTag you don’t own is staying with you

    Apple on iOS 17.5:

    Tracking Notifications
    Cross-Platform Tracking Detection delivers notifications to users if a compatible Bluetooth tracker they do not own is moving with them, regardless of what operating system the device is paired with

    My understanding is that this workaround still requires you to have location services turned on which is basically just opening the door for other avenues of tracking and surveillance.

    It's a bad solution for people that don't want to have Find My or Location Services always on.

    Good point, and one I wasn't aware of.

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Typically when you ask Tim Cook what the solution is for someone that doesn't have an iPhone, his answer is that they should get an iPhone.

    While true, this is again an odd response in the wake of a specific partnership between Apple and Google to provide cross-platform solutions to this problem.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-and-google-deliver-support-for-unwanted-tracking-alerts-in-ios-and-android/
    Apple and Google have worked together to create an industry specification — Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers — for Bluetooth tracking devices that makes it possible to alert users across both iOS and Android if such a device is unknowingly being used to track them. This will help mitigate the misuse of devices designed to help keep track of belongings. Today Apple is implementing this capability in iOS 17.5, and Google is now launching this capability on Android 6.0+ devices.

    Plus Apple just announced iOS 18 will support RCS messaging. Which on the one hand, “about fucking time,” but also a big step in cross platform interoperability.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    the argument over the fairness and equity of how the phone tells you that you are being stalked hides the real issue which is that anyone who owns an Apple device and wants to have the lost-device feature is unwittingly opted in to an on-by-default global tracking network... which is exactly what allows them to be used for criminal purposes

    they could have a perfectly functional find-my-phone system without also forcing you to be part of an airtag network, they simply choose not to

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    As someone whose job it is to minimize this: it's bad y'all. And people are often mad at the wrong companies.

    I solve this by being mad at all of them.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Typically when you ask Tim Cook what the solution is for someone that doesn't have an iPhone, his answer is that they should get an iPhone.

    While true, this is again an odd response in the wake of a specific partnership between Apple and Google to provide cross-platform solutions to this problem.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-and-google-deliver-support-for-unwanted-tracking-alerts-in-ios-and-android/
    Apple and Google have worked together to create an industry specification — Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers — for Bluetooth tracking devices that makes it possible to alert users across both iOS and Android if such a device is unknowingly being used to track them. This will help mitigate the misuse of devices designed to help keep track of belongings. Today Apple is implementing this capability in iOS 17.5, and Google is now launching this capability on Android 6.0+ devices.

    Plus Apple just announced iOS 18 will support RCS messaging. Which on the one hand, “about fucking time,” but also a big step in cross platform interoperability.

    This is why I use the patented lost device method of "call my phone and see which sofa cushion starts ringing."

    If I lost it somewhere that isn't my house it admittedly works less well.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Butters wrote: »
    Agreed that the most galling thing about about privacy invasion for advertising is that it doesn't even work. A few years ago I connected to the free wifi at my dentist's office and Google started serving me ads for fucking drills the following week. When I researched a major appliance at a Best Buy with my wife before making a purchase, her Facebook feed bombarded her with ads for similar appliances as if buying more than one refrigerator was a normal thing.

    All these awful consequences to corporate surveillance and it's not even useful for achieving their primary goal anymore now that their algorithms have been gamed into oblivion.

    I feel that the only place where the invasion of privacy really works as intended is in gaming social media algorithms so you'll endlessly hate watch dumb bullshit about whatever thing you just read a news article about.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    Maybe but even in that scenario the end game is advertising. Social Media and whatever media outlet they're boosting in the end are selling the targeting of advertisers and it doesn't work.

    Butters on
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    TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    I find it difficult to get people to care about this stuff. Most don't seem to mind, but I think it's also because they don't truly realize what they are giving up or what consequences down the road can be. Others think privacy is now a myth or impossible to achieve in this day and age and we should just accept that we have to give up data. I am also not good at being convincing, it seems. I personally try to strive for a balance between privacy/security and convenience. I know some people that go to great lengths to keep as much private as possible and while I find that admirable, to a certain point it's just too annoying. Reading about the connected cars is particularly concerning as it seems my next car almost certainly will be.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Personally, I pretty much never put myself in a situation where I'd have the opportunity to actually see a targeted ad. It's a bit difficult to care about how much effort ad companies are putting into wasting their own time with me.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Typically when you ask Tim Cook what the solution is for someone that doesn't have an iPhone, his answer is that they should get an iPhone.

    While true, this is again an odd response in the wake of a specific partnership between Apple and Google to provide cross-platform solutions to this problem.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-and-google-deliver-support-for-unwanted-tracking-alerts-in-ios-and-android/
    Apple and Google have worked together to create an industry specification — Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers — for Bluetooth tracking devices that makes it possible to alert users across both iOS and Android if such a device is unknowingly being used to track them. This will help mitigate the misuse of devices designed to help keep track of belongings. Today Apple is implementing this capability in iOS 17.5, and Google is now launching this capability on Android 6.0+ devices.

    Plus Apple just announced iOS 18 will support RCS messaging. Which on the one hand, “about fucking time,” but also a big step in cross platform interoperability.

    This is why I use the patented lost device method of "call my phone and see which sofa cushion starts ringing."

    If I lost it somewhere that isn't my house it admittedly works less well.

    That's great and all until you realize you need your phone to call your phone to find out where it is.

    I know there's probably a whole wack of privacy issues at play... but man is it ever neat to press a button on my TV's remote, say "Where's my phone?", and then hear it ring.

    But yeah, the real problem with getting people to care about this stuff is that many people think "Well, the only info they're taking is what you can find in a phone book anyways, so who cares?". When the truth is that it's so much more than just that.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 14
    you can call your phone using google voice with any web browser.


    :)

    redx on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Typically when you ask Tim Cook what the solution is for someone that doesn't have an iPhone, his answer is that they should get an iPhone.

    While true, this is again an odd response in the wake of a specific partnership between Apple and Google to provide cross-platform solutions to this problem.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-and-google-deliver-support-for-unwanted-tracking-alerts-in-ios-and-android/
    Apple and Google have worked together to create an industry specification — Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers — for Bluetooth tracking devices that makes it possible to alert users across both iOS and Android if such a device is unknowingly being used to track them. This will help mitigate the misuse of devices designed to help keep track of belongings. Today Apple is implementing this capability in iOS 17.5, and Google is now launching this capability on Android 6.0+ devices.

    Plus Apple just announced iOS 18 will support RCS messaging. Which on the one hand, “about fucking time,” but also a big step in cross platform interoperability.

    This is why I use the patented lost device method of "call my phone and see which sofa cushion starts ringing."

    If I lost it somewhere that isn't my house it admittedly works less well.

    That's great and all until you realize you need your phone to call your phone to find out where it is.

    I know there's probably a whole wack of privacy issues at play... but man is it ever neat to press a button on my TV's remote, say "Where's my phone?", and then hear it ring.

    But yeah, the real problem with getting people to care about this stuff is that many people think "Well, the only info they're taking is what you can find in a phone book anyways, so who cares?". When the truth is that it's so much more than just that.

    good luck finding someone who knows what a phone book is, these days...

    (do you realize how much that dates us you?)

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    useruser Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    Jasconius wrote: »
    there's two different kinds of data collection....

    A) Ticketmaster and Amazon need to know who you are and how you're paying to conduct a transaction and deliver an item, etc...

    B ) Microsoft taking a video of every action you take on your computer forever, your car dealership selling your telemetry to data brokers, random app store apps leaving your mic open so you can get ad targeted better


    A I think is intractable. Shit happens, I think 90% or more people are willing to accept the risks and tradeoffs associated with ecommerce, the banking system is equipped to deal with systemic fraud, and realistically you face greater personal financial threats through many other vectors almost every day


    B... is awful. its so awful it cannot even be encapsulated in a forum post. There is virtual no social good that can be derived from this other than it makes advertising 3% better (??) maybe? I can envision a future where the next political generation collectively decides that there's no reason why we have to put up with this at all and choose a better life for ourselves, making all forms of this type of data collection explicitly opt-in only with big flashing lights around every opt-in request.

    The thing about all this data tracking stuff is that its mega evil and invasive while also still managing to deliver very little value? like, using the sum total of the computational might of planet earth, Amazon still, upon seeing that I have purchased a rice cooker, will recommend that I buy several dozen more rice cookers afterward...

    my insurance company, upon seeing my driving habits, will still charge me more every year no matter what I do

    and i get very annoyed when I see pro-business arguments made in defense of this stuff as though it has existed for centuries... like, we had a perfectly good internet that everybody liked for nearly two decades before anyone thought of establishing a surveillance economy... we can go back to that any time we want

    The kind of elephant in the room is that B. isn't even a novel step. Microsoft is literally just to trying to get to the point for PCs, where we've been at with our phones now... for a few years.

    We've just kind of been the frogs in boiling water on this front. But our Android and Apple phones have basically been doing Recall style telemetry for a little while now, and we acquiesced to it maybe partially out of a lack of clarity about this happening, and also because we all rather like having something that's snappy and useful on us for a rather long time.

    user on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Nah.
    I'd get a flip phone, if it weren't for the necessity of 2FA apps.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    But yeah, the real problem with getting people to care about this stuff is that many people think "Well, the only info they're taking is what you can find in a phone book anyways, so who cares?". When the truth is that it's so much more than just that.

    Yeah. I mean, with a handful of Likes or videos watched, an algorithm can predict your personality type and pretty intimate details of your life with shocking accuracy. You can use just the metadata from your phone to identify your entire social group and the likely relationships involved.

    It's not even just about the obviously worrisome stuff like name and DOB and social and whatever, it's about how much you can get just from the innocuous stuff.

    It doesn't help that even the "Do Not Sell My Information" options are usually buried and/or designed to trick you into signing everything away.

    Of course I just assume that they're all going to sell my info no matter what I select.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    We badly need a GDPR type law in the US, for sure. If not broader, honestly. And maybe give it sharper teeth for good measure.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Nah.
    I'd get a flip phone, if it weren't for the necessity of 2FA apps.

    I am getting one anyway when mu current phone gives up the ghost. If my employer wants me to use a 2FA app, they can issue me with a phone (they actually do have hardware tokens that do exactly the same job, they just dun wanna give em out).

    And that'll be a phone that gets shut off the second my contracted daily hours end.

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