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Selling my house
Rhino
TheRhinLOLRegistered User regular
TheRhinLOLRegistered User regular
Here is the deal about 1.5 years ago I had a girlfriend and I was stupid. She wanted a house because she wanted to girl it up or whatever.... I bought into the idea, since "owning" a house is better then just "wasting" money on rent [theoretically].
so, we got a house. long story short, we broke up... and now the house is 100% in my name, debt and all.
Some facts:
In short, I want to ditch the house and get a nice little town home... since, well I don't need this much space and the mortgage payments are stupidly high.
On my taxes, the city said that the house is now worth apox $20K more then I bought it for.
For whatever reason I thought it was a good idea to blow $12K on a heater/air conditioner (old one broke).
The bathrooms in this house piss me off so bad. The upstairs bathroom as a 'half-bathtub' and the shower is just a fucking hose in the wall... oh and the fucking thing leaks all over the god dam place so now there is a ton of water damage in the bathroom below (all the internal stuff and all the dry wall).
Also when I got this house, they said the basement didn't leak - but the first spring I live here, the fucking thing leaked to all hell... (the basement is the "living room" plus my "bed room" (it's split in two parts)).
It's a really nice area and really nice house - save for the retarded ass bathroom...
But my question is this... what should I do?
Optimally I would want to get rid of it and go get into a nice condo/town house - but I also don't want to lose any money on this. Breaking even is fine, but don't want to lose any monies on it.
If I stay, how do I fix all this fucking water damage in the bathroom? Or if I sale, I have to fix? I don't have time right now... even if I had the time, I don't know how to fix it? I think it's a leak pipe inside the walls.
I tried hiring someone awhile back to fix the bathtub, but they where all very "shady" and fucking slimballs. I talked to about half dozen people from phone book and craigslist.
Another option, is I could stay and get some room mates (3 of them). Around this area, I could charge between $400 and $500 a piece, so that would help me on some of my mortgage payment. But the downside to that is I hate roommates and like being alone (hence wanting to get a condo/town house).
Also about the bathroom not leaking, can I sue the people that sold it to me? They said it didn't leak to their knowledge (and have it in writing).
The loan I have is a 30 year fixed with a good rate... so the downside of selling (besides possibility losing money) is I would also lose a good 'rate' (and all the interest payments that I've paid up to this point? I'd lose that to).
so, we got a house. long story short, we broke up... and now the house is 100% in my name, debt and all.
Some facts:
In short, I want to ditch the house and get a nice little town home... since, well I don't need this much space and the mortgage payments are stupidly high.
On my taxes, the city said that the house is now worth apox $20K more then I bought it for.
For whatever reason I thought it was a good idea to blow $12K on a heater/air conditioner (old one broke).
The bathrooms in this house piss me off so bad. The upstairs bathroom as a 'half-bathtub' and the shower is just a fucking hose in the wall... oh and the fucking thing leaks all over the god dam place so now there is a ton of water damage in the bathroom below (all the internal stuff and all the dry wall).
Also when I got this house, they said the basement didn't leak - but the first spring I live here, the fucking thing leaked to all hell... (the basement is the "living room" plus my "bed room" (it's split in two parts)).
It's a really nice area and really nice house - save for the retarded ass bathroom...
But my question is this... what should I do?
Optimally I would want to get rid of it and go get into a nice condo/town house - but I also don't want to lose any money on this. Breaking even is fine, but don't want to lose any monies on it.
If I stay, how do I fix all this fucking water damage in the bathroom? Or if I sale, I have to fix? I don't have time right now... even if I had the time, I don't know how to fix it? I think it's a leak pipe inside the walls.
I tried hiring someone awhile back to fix the bathtub, but they where all very "shady" and fucking slimballs. I talked to about half dozen people from phone book and craigslist.
Another option, is I could stay and get some room mates (3 of them). Around this area, I could charge between $400 and $500 a piece, so that would help me on some of my mortgage payment. But the downside to that is I hate roommates and like being alone (hence wanting to get a condo/town house).
Also about the bathroom not leaking, can I sue the people that sold it to me? They said it didn't leak to their knowledge (and have it in writing).
The loan I have is a 30 year fixed with a good rate... so the downside of selling (besides possibility losing money) is I would also lose a good 'rate' (and all the interest payments that I've paid up to this point? I'd lose that to).
Rhino on
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Have a chat with a real estate agent (maybe the old one if s/he seemed ok) see what they think about value now and value after it's fixed. Most places offer free appraisals.
If you are going down the fixing route the real esate agent may be able to help you out there also. Additionally talk to friends who have had work done see if they can recomend anyone.
EDIT: additionally depending on the town house you may be able to re-finance your loan keeping it, high chance you wont but it would be worth talking to the bank with.
Satans..... hints.....
The real estate agent can be a good source of information about finding a contractor who can fix your plumbing issues and clean up the walls, you can do the painting yourself as long as you aren’t inept with housepaint. One thing to keep in mind about contractors, though: most of them tend to seem like shady assholes. This is because they can get away with it due to a shortage of capable contractors in most parts of the country, and because a lot of the really good ones were run out of business by guys who undercut them with cheap illegal immigrant labor.
I would pass on the rommates idea, as having a bunch of guys (or even hot co-eds) running around is only going to make the water problems worse, and then you're a landlord and get the associated tax headaches with it.
So for selling it, yeah, you probably need to get to the point of non-leaking at least. real estate agent might be a good bet. Try angieslist.com as well. Shit, go old-school and just go ask your neighbors.
You'd be surprised what littel effort/money it takes to impress people in the market; re: a new shower head.
You're going to need to fix the water issues for sure, or the house won't be very sell-able. So you should fix the one shower and repair the water issues, then figure out how much it's going to cost to fix the water issues in the basement. Sounds to me like you didn't get a home inspection before you bought the house, considering all of the water issues.
As far as the tax value goes, tax value is usually not the market value. I'm in the Seattle area and tax assessed values up here typically run 20-50% below the market value of the property. Also, while Zillow is kind of a fun website, it's not typically a very accurate evaluator for market value. From the work that I've done, it's accurate about 50-60% of the time. Sometimes it's too high, sometimes way low.
Wherever you live, find a good agent in your area and go over these things with them. Find someone who has been doing it for a bit and ask for references. A good agent will have tons of references and will have clients who are very happy with them. I know for myself I keep in contact with all but one of my former clients.
Feel free to PM me with any questions you have in particular. I'd be happy to help you as much as possible.
You can sell the house "As Is" which means prospective buyers can make their own decisions on the bathroom water issue.
If you want a fast, clean sale get a realtor. They will not cost you any money until you sell the home. At that point it will come out of your bottom line on the HUD (the main closing document dealing with money). Standard fare for realtors is 6% of the sales price. It's worth it as they diffuse issues (like when their customer asks about water damage) and are much more effective at selling then you will be doing it by yourself.
Use the same realtor to find a townhome. That will cost you nothing. It only cost the Seller.
Then come back here and ask me about mortgages. That's what I do for a living.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
You're better off getting them fixed, first. It will likely add more to the price of the home getting them fixed that you will spend fixing them.
I don't know about the rest of the country, but 6% is a ridiculous commission to a realtor around here, though it doesn't surprise me that someone who works in the real estate industry would recommend that. Shop around, see who will give you the best deal for the smallest cut; around my area, 2-3% is standard, and I've heard of people talking the realtors down to 1%.
Wow, you must have some desperate realtors out there. Here in DC talking a realtor down is unheard of—you either pay the 6%, or you sell it yourself.
You also need to watch for those who charge less, as a buyer's agent gets paid from that same commission (3% for seller's agent, 3% for buyer's). Some won't even show the house if they won't get paid for the work.
I think you're confused on this. It's probably less than 6%, but more than 4%. Here's how the commission structure works. Kind of industry standard commission is 6% of the sales price. This is negotiable. The commission is then split between the listing agent (representing the seller) and the selling agent (representing the buyer). This is typically setup as 3% to the selling agent, with the remainder going to the listing agent.
What you're probably hearing is agents who will reduce their LISTING commission to 1-3%. I know for me when I do a listing, it usually costs me $1-2k in upfront costs to setup the house, market it, put up the sign, etc. Tons of work goes into it. Then I don't get paid until the house closes. If it doesn't close, I'm just out that money and time and effort that I just put in.
Any listing that I do I spend tons of time working on it and typically from when I meet my new client to when the house actually closes is about 2-3 months. Now, with all of that time and effort and work and money out of my pocket, would 1% make sense?
1% listing agents typically do two things. Put up a sign and post the listing on the local mutliple listing service. They're doing almost zero work and typically give no advice on the home. Usually you have to take your own pictures of the house if you want any on the MLS.
So yes, you can do a discount brokerage, but as always, you get what you pay for.
Well unless it didn't leak when he bought it, or they were not aware of any leaks. I also think he should have used a home inspector, and if he did his likely recourse would be with the inspector, not the home owners.
Shit goes wrong with houses over the course of a year, it's possible, maybe even likely, that the leaks occured during his tenure.
buy warhams
I wouldnt want a realtor who would take 1%. That is one absolutely shitty realtor. The big realtor houses down here will not negotiate on 6%. You can get some hack selling his first house for less but why bother at that point? Then you can sell it yourself.
As for the earlier arguements you may have some recourse but very little in my state. Georgia is fairly notorious for being pro-business, anti-consumer which includes the sale of homes and foreclosures, etc. But you may be right I am not a lawyer.
For fixing it or not its really hard to say what will net you more. That is completely dependant on market conditions. I live in a 300 year old historical downtown area on a river. If someone wants me to fix the house before I sell it to them I can tell them to fuck themselves and someone will be right behind them.
Now telling someone to fuck themselves could very well earn you a bloody lip so don't go that route unless fighting is your thing.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
1] Inside the wall (from the bathroom being fucked up).
2] From outside, around the base - into the basement.
I think leak 1 isn't fault of previous owners, I think it's do to the bathroom being fucked up and getting more fucked up over time. (it has the worst fixture you possible to get for a shower).
In regards to number 2, yes I had a home inspector. The thing I have in writing [from owners] was "It hasn't leaked awhile we where here, but the previous owner (20 years ago) said they had some leaking, but we have had none. We put up all this 'anti-leak' stuff in the last 5 years"
The anti-leak stuff is like seals, ducting, wall gloss and bunch of stuff on the outside.
Which makes a person say "Why they spend all this money on anti-leak stuff if they have never experienced a leak?"
The Homer Inspector said "water damage: [none]". Home inspector just happened to be friend of Realtors. That was probably a bad choice on my part, but took her reference cause she appeared trust worthy.
So far it hasn't leaked this year. Only last spring, it rained extremely bad and had lot of melting snow at the same time.
Licensed home inspectors are held to a professional standard, so you could conceivably sue him for malpractice (basically, failing to satisfactorily perform his professional duty), but you probably wouldn't win if it was an above-average year last year.
The principle I have in this house: Very little. I put about 5 - 10K [can't recall off hand] down (when purchasing) and then probably 2K in principle payments. The rest of my payment to this point have been towards interest only. So 7K to 12K principle at most.
Also the heater/Air condition was about 12K, but don't think I'll get my money back on that. Think as long as it has a working one, home owners don't care. Most of them are probably more concerned with color of kitchen cabinets.
dont say that to your realtor please. you bought the house you shouldnt feel premature remorse for profiting. do your best maybe you can make some dough for a downpayment on your next investment. and please dont buy a fucking HOUSE the next time your gf suggests it. :P
you can sue home inspectors. I recently found out they have insurance in the event they get sued which, according to this particular real estate appraiser, is all the time. I'd ask someone who knows a bit about real estate law in your area. I don't have any good knowledge to impart on that one other than you can sorry.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
If you had proof that there was water damage in the house but the inspector missed it, that'd be a different story. But they can't control the weather or tear down walls, etc.
This is not true in all states. In Washington, there are no licensing requirements for home inspectors, therefore little to no liability. If you used the listing agent to represent you in the deal, then yeah you could've been jacked. Same thing happened to my boss before he became a real estate agent. Found a house he wanted, met the agent at the open house. Listing agent happened to be the MOTHER of the seller. Conflict? Yes.
Home inspector recommended by listing agent happens to be best friend of the seller. Conflict? Yes. Inspector says house is great.
In the first year, roof leaks, stove breaks, fence falls down, front stairs were already rotten and start to break, fridge breaks, the list goes on and on.
This is also why you should have a good buyer's agent when you buy your house as well, to make sure you have someone protecting your best interests and not just their own.
There may be some recourse for you Rhino, depending on what state you live in. If you live in Washington, drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do to help you if anything. If you live in another state, I would suggest contacting the National Association of Realtors and ask them for help with it since the agent you used probably won't be any help.
buyers agent for sure. they dont cost you anything so theres no reason not to imho.
everything in real estate is so different state by state...hard to give advice.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
That's really not right at all. A typical home-buyer will consider things in roughly this order:
Location
Size
Price
Structural Integrity (damp? Subsidence? etc.)
Core improvements (including things like double glazing, central heating and I'd expect air con in the US)
Ready to occupy? (ie, does it actually have kitchen appliances, a fitted working bathroom etc?)
...
Way down a the bottom are superficial things like decor because these are the easiest things to change and it's very likely that you'll find the perfect house but the previous occupier has taste that makes you want to vomit so buying based primarily on decor is a futile practice.
Bearing this in mind, you can't change the location or size of the property obviously, but you can fix things like the structural integrity (fix the leaking basement and leak/water damage in the bathroom). The improved aircon might not add much value to the property but it certain adds incentive for the buyer to choose your property over another (all other things being equal would you rather buy a house with 20 year old aircon that's basically spewing legionaries disease into your living room or one with brand new clean aircon?)
Personally, I would definitely look into getting the leaks fixed first though. That would be a major turn off for a lot of buyers. Talk to companies who specifically specialise in damage repairs rather than just a plumber, because once the leaks are fixed you're also going to need to get the rooms dried (they put these big industrial blowers in the rooms for about three or four weeks, we had top get it done a couple of months ago in our flat) and redecorated (possibly also re-plastered etc. depending on the extent of the damage).
Of course, this is going to depend on how much money you think you can afford to spend up front. I say get as much fixed as you can afford, because it'll improve the price you ultimately get for your house. If you have absolutely nothing you can contribute towards the repairs, you might consider a small loan to do the work and as a last resort just sell it without fixing it but be prepared to get a shitty price.
Perhaps talk to a realtor about getting the house valued in it's current state and an idea of what the value would be if you got everything fixed as then you can estimate whether the cost of repairs would be worth it or not.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
thats risky though if he doesn't get the price he wants on his home. we are in a buyer's market almost country-wise now I wouldnt make this move. I'd try to go as-is if a realtor agreed with me.
good luck hope you sell your humongous home.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
I'm going to see about getting the leak and water damage fixed. Regardless of what I do, it probably needs to be fixed anyways.
As far as selling the house, what indicators determine if it's a good time to sell or not? Overall market wise, just looking for some numbers. Maybe I could wait a few years, get some more principal payments in and hopefully the market will turn in my favor.. just have to figure out how to determine if it's in my favor or not!
What do I want to look at? The Fed's interest rate under the assumption that lower is better for the housing market?
Any numbers besides that?
Any other ways? angieslist.com charges $15 for first month and I just need to look at the list once! For a day.
(yea, I'm being a cheap bastard
the market is not going to turn anytime soon so dont think it will. Housing prices are generally sticky and take a very long time to turn either way. I think we will flatline for 5-7 years and then have a gradual rise closer to the historical norms. thats a hopeful outlook the foreclosure rate could screw with that mightily.
th fed interest rate is in no way tied to traditional mortgage rates. go to bloomberg.com and get national averages for a clearer picture of rates. they have been terrible lately. They have risen from about 5.75 to 6.75 in a month. that is incredibly fast. sucks for me.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
This little blurb shows what Sonos said:
http://library.hsh.com/?row_id=90
But, I read this and I am still confused. I thought the Federal Reserve Board's manipulation of interest rates was behind everything in lending. Aren't adjustable-rate mortgages in particular, tied to the federal funds rate that is chosen by the Federal Reserve Board?
As far as the fed's controls over interest rates, what they say and what people think they'll do has alot more to do with interest rates than what they actually do to interest rates. Mortgage backed securities are closely tied to the 10 year bond, and so that's the best indicator to look at as far as what mortgages are going to do. Nowadays, the bond market has money in it from all over the world, so international financial trends have just as much effect as local and national trends to.
Basically it's all voodoo as far as what interest rates will do. no one is really in control that much.
Interest Only ARMs are tied to the London Exchange (LIBOR). Why? dont know they just started that was so they are.
Mortgage rates are tied to REITs (groupings of mortgages) bought and sold on Wall Street generally speaking. Here is how it basically works (I am not an expert just have a rudimentry knowledge):
Let's say the market has very low 5 Year IO ARMs and everyone is buying homes using that particular mortgage. Wall St. is all about hedging risk so what they will do is raise the rates of that particular one and then lower the 30 Year rates. More people go into 30 year rates less in the 5 year ARMs.
Now when all mortgages go up I assume it is Wall St. hedging all risk and raising all rates across the board. This is happening now and my assumption it is because of the massive bankruptcy of the Alternative lenders (ppl with shitty credit). They took on too much risk and now have to raise rates to cover their asses.
Glad I could bore all of you. I am a mortgage banker and majored in economics...for some reason I find it interesting. :?:
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
WHY WOULDNT HE SELL IT IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO LIVE IN IT? SORRY FOR THE CAPS I'M TAKING LOAN APPLICATIONS :P <~~~~~~ ON TOPIC!
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
The big thing Rhino is at least telling people what state you are in so people could at least get some knowledge of what the market might be doing out there, maybe you are in a rare location where things are actually moving at a better pace?
pleasepaypreacher.net
true. If he lives in Houston or Atlanta it will never sell. Phoenix or Las Vegas maybe a day. shrug. hard to say even then.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
As far as low cost brokerages for the most part you get what you pay for. I know an agent in the western washington area who does a lot of property fixing himself, pays for a lot of work to be done and is generally an awesome guy, he charges 3% listing commission because he earns it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
a good agent does most of their work behind the scenes and never let you know about the daily issues that arise with a sale/buy. Their job after the contract is signed is to put out the myrais of fires that always come up while keeping their customer happy as a clam.
unfortunately that makes my job a bitch where I am refrerred to as the bad guy.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's near Hopkins, Minnetonka area.
Where xxxxx is my town.
I purchased the house for $250K even. The city taxes thing says it's now worth $270K (don't know if that's right). One block away there is a couple selling there house (without Agent, they just got a cheap sign in there yard).. it's been about 2-3 weeks and they haven't sold yet (don't know asking price). I get snail mail spam from one company, saying the average sale price is around $280-300K in this area.. but think they are probably inflating prices to try and get customers.
Typically, you're going to want to figure about 8% of the sales price as the cost to close. THat's for commissions, taxes, title and closing fees. 8% of 270k is $21,800. So not a break-even proposition here. Then if you buy again, you're going to have to have all of the costs associated with that as well. new down payment if not doing zero down and the new closing costs of the new place.
So basically, that's what you're looking at with selling this place if it would sell for $270k.
I know here in Washington, tax assessments are usually much lower than the actual market value, so you may be able to walk away with a few thousand dollars on this, if that is true.
what is a multiple? never heard the term tbh.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748