It's funny how generalizations are okay as long as it meshes with the hive mind of this particular forum but if you make a reasonable generalization such as older people tend to be more mature than younger people an old fashioned gang rapin' starts.
It's funny how generalizations are okay as long as it meshes with the hive mind of this particular forum but if you make a reasonable generalization such as older people tend to be more mature than younger people an old fashioned gang rapin' starts.
I'm trying to understand what that has to do with this thread, but I just don't get it.
"Not having the luxury of a data store of each human being's individual maturity level, sometimes it's necessary to make a 90 plus % true generalization for the sake of arguement."
It's funny how generalizations are okay as long as it meshes with the hive mind of this particular forum but if you make a reasonable generalization such as older people tend to be more mature than younger people an old fashioned gang rapin' starts.
I'm trying to understand what that has to do with this thread, but I just don't get it.
"Not having the luxury of a data store of each human being's individual maturity level, sometimes it's necessary to make a 90 plus % true generalization for the sake of arguement."
I was going to go with "Look, I can be a dipshit in multiple threads at once."
ElJeffe on
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I kind of would feel more comfortable if all these intelligent, mature, seasoned and kind frats and sororities would public decry and take steps away from the frats being discussed in the thread.
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
I kind of would feel more comfortable if all these intelligent, mature, seasoned and kind frats and sororities would public decry and take steps away from the frats being discussed in the thread.
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
Yeah because being black requires a preliminary screening process, and continued blackness requires the payment of dues on a regular schedule and conformity to various sets of rules. How 'bout if you agree that these guys who create this stereotype you hate are such shit-heads, you kick them out of your frats? Or are you suggesting that it's our responsibility to kick them out of your frats? Because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that. And if your frat did, congratulations, on every one of the five pages of this thread people have acknowledged the existence of exceptions. Regardless the fact remains that it is not our responsibility to make your private clubs look good.
I kind of would feel more comfortable if all these intelligent, mature, seasoned and kind frats and sororities would public decry and take steps away from the frats being discussed in the thread.
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
Yeah because being black requires a preliminary screening process, and continued blackness requires the payment of dues on a regular schedule and conformity to various sets of rules. How 'bout if you agree that these guys who create this stereotype you hate are such shit-heads, you kick them out of your frats? Or are you suggesting that it's our responsibility to kick them out of your frats? Because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that. And if your frat did, congratulations, on every one of the five pages of this thread people have acknowledged the existence of exceptions. Regardless the fact remains that it is not our responsibility to make your private clubs look good.
Or you could judge people as individuals instead of spewing all manner of venom towards an entire group. The idea that people are responsible for their own actions is not an entirely meritless one. I'm sure I got some sort of motivational speech about not being prejudicial towards people I haven't met in school, but the actual content escapes me right now.
Of course, that would require you to meet many fraternity members instead of raging on the internet.
Or you could judge people as individuals instead of spewing all manner of venom towards an entire group. The idea that people are responsible for their own actions is not an entirely meritless one. I'm sure I got some sort of motivational speech about not being prejudicial towards people I haven't met in school, but the actual content escapes me right now.
Of course, that would require you to meet many fraternity members instead of raging on the internet.
Yeah because I've lived in Oxford this long and never met any fraternity members. Regardless you seem to be having difficulty discerning between attacking a group and attacking an institution. What you are claiming is equivalent to saying that if I go into a store and an employee being an asshole, and he's still there being an asshole the next time I come back, I'm a racist for criticisizing the store for not having fired him. They are allowing themselves to be represented by assholes. Fraternity membership isn't even as protected as employment opportunity, they can and do discriminate rather diliberately and outwardly in managing their membership. I've encountered lots, and they all put up at least that one or two asshole brothers. And allow them to shelter themselves from criticism. That's a perfectly valid criticism of an institution, and it is entirely the institution's responsibility to deal with it or not depending upon how they wish to be represented.
How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
ElJeffe on
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How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
Exactly. The greek system isn't a system of beliefs. Every house and every chapter is a unique snowflake. This isn't the KKK. There is not belief system. There isn't a list of rules that people have to follow. Just because someone is in a fraternity, doesn't mean they automically drink too much and rape too many girls.
How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
Exactly. The greek system isn't a system of beliefs. Every house and every chapter is a unique snowflake. This isn't the KKK. There is not belief system. There isn't a list of rules that people have to follow. Just because someone is in a fraternity, doesn't mean they automically drink too much and rape too many girls.
How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
That depends whether or not they're chapters of the same frat. If they are, the house at Florida State may be a better house to complain about it in because they're more likely to take it up the ladder than the immediate brothers of the assholes in question. But frankly neither would actually work. And thus the raging against the institution.
How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
And Florida State certainly has its share of assholes. Although Ted Bundy was a good start.
I kind of would feel more comfortable if all these intelligent, mature, seasoned and kind frats and sororities would public decry and take steps away from the frats being discussed in the thread.
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
Yeah because being black requires a preliminary screening process, and continued blackness requires the payment of dues on a regular schedule and conformity to various sets of rules. How 'bout if you agree that these guys who create this stereotype you hate are such shit-heads, you kick them out of your frats? Or are you suggesting that it's our responsibility to kick them out of your frats? Because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that. And if your frat did, congratulations, on every one of the five pages of this thread people have acknowledged the existence of exceptions. Regardless the fact remains that it is not our responsibility to make your private clubs look good.
You speak as if someone in a fraternity somewhere has power or influence over some other fraternity. "You're being a fuckstick, Im kicking you out of the fraternity system." That's up the individual chapter and its members - and their national headquarters if they are nationwide.
How about we agree that it's the fault of a specific fraternity for not expelling or ostracizing specific asshole members, and reinforce the absurdity of asserting that the house at UC Berkeley is to blame for the house at Florida State not taking care of its own assholes?
Exactly. The greek system isn't a system of beliefs. Every house and every chapter is a unique snowflake. This isn't the KKK. There is not belief system. There isn't a list of rules that people have to follow. Just because someone is in a fraternity, doesn't mean they automically drink too much and rape too many girls.
hahaha 'too many'
I recognise the distributed nature of the system, but its also the case that the national whatever board do have a certain amount of control over what goes on in individual chapters, or the sorority nonsense I linked earlier couldn't have happened. I submit that the bad frat/soro's are allowed to get away with too much, and that more effective leadership would solve a lot of these problems. Unfortunately, it seems that that good leadership is either there from the start or not.
I find it interesting that the non-white/band/boho frats and sororities have a much better reputation than the WASPy ones. its a pity that they're getting lumped in with the rest, since the bad frats seem to be mainly sourced from that entitled mid-to-upper socioeconomic class in the north, and the good-ol'-boy/gal redneck system in the south, plus the sports-scholarship crowd all over.
Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
Buddy Lee on
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Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
So you expect to live in a house and have someone else clean up after you? Or run the house on some magical fund instead of paying to live and eat their alongside the other brothers? Most organizations have meetings, or have tedious crap that keeps them running. Someone who goes into it expecting it to always be roses is just deluded. That's like complaining abourt WoW because you have to pay monthly fees. There's no such thing as a free lunch etc.
I kind of would feel more comfortable if all these intelligent, mature, seasoned and kind frats and sororities would public decry and take steps away from the frats being discussed in the thread.
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
Yeah because being black requires a preliminary screening process, and continued blackness requires the payment of dues on a regular schedule and conformity to various sets of rules. How 'bout if you agree that these guys who create this stereotype you hate are such shit-heads, you kick them out of your frats? Or are you suggesting that it's our responsibility to kick them out of your frats? Because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that. And if your frat did, congratulations, on every one of the five pages of this thread people have acknowledged the existence of exceptions. Regardless the fact remains that it is not our responsibility to make your private clubs look good.
You speak as if someone in a fraternity somewhere has power or influence over some other fraternity.
No I don't. I speak as if A) frat-guys are the norm in frats, frats are private-clubs with controlled membership, and C) I assume people know how caveats work rather than that they're going to take everything I say about anything as a direct personal attack. I swear some of you guys seem so terrified that I'm goiing to take away your club-house that you're willing to take it as a personal attack if I even mention that rape happens sometimes in real-life.
Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
So, what bothers you is that they are good at marketing themselves.
That is like bitching because your real estate agent never mentioned that you would have to cook your own meals in your new house.
I find it interesting that the non-white/band/boho frats and sororities have a much better reputation than the WASPy ones. its a pity that they're getting lumped in with the rest, since the bad frats seem to be mainly sourced from that entitled mid-to-upper socioeconomic class in the north, and the good-ol'-boy/gal redneck system in the south, plus the sports-scholarship crowd all over.
Aren't these "band" or "chem" coed fraternities just national organizations somewhat like an honor society? I'm unaware if these people even have houses.
At least in my area, the "non-white" frats have a major problem with violent hazing, scarification, and the like.
But they do have a better reputation for not binge drinking, fucking or any of those other stereotypes already mentioned of the typical white Abercrombie frat member.
And as far as paying goes, I know it's been explained before, but let me break down the aspect for my particular chapter, to give you an idea of how it works:
As of last semester, dues were a total of $314.00 (yeah, it's geeky, I know. I was actually the one who suggested the number at the budget commitee meeting.)
$112.50 of that is national dues, which we send off to the national office. Allow me to break that down further for you.
$72.50 goes toward insurance. My particular fraternity, on the national level, has an insurance policy that covers each individual brother up to a million dollars. This is something that we intend not to have to use, but it is nice to know that, if something goes wrong at an event, or some one gets hurt, or something, we have this kind of money to back us up. Being that we are also a JEWISH social fraternity, we have the best lawyers money can buy, if it comes down to legal matters, of course many, if not all, of them are AEPi alums.
$40.00 is simply national dues. This goes to paying for the national office, paying the sallaries of national employees, funding regional and national conventions, and all sorts of other things. This money isn't simply being handed off to one guy, I've met the guys from national plenty of times, and I can assure you that they're using the money wisely.
The other $201.50 goes into our chapter's bank account. This is the money used for our budget, and is no one's money but our own. It is used for hosting parties. It is used for going out to play laser tag or paintball, it is used for advertising during Rush week and running pledge events, it is used for events that we hold for our families.
You might ask why we have to pay dues up front, rather than paying for each thing ourselves. Well, when you're hanging out with your buddies, and you decideto order pizza, but none of you have any cash on you, what do you do? You end up going hungry. Us? Well, we just call up the guy with the chapter debit card (either president or treasurer, depending on who has it that day,) and we get our pizza paid for. Having a pool of money to draw from makes it that much easier to plan events, without having to worry about outside factors to each member's finances at any given time.
We also have some brothers who do not come from the best of financial situations, and have worked out with the chapter a lower rate to pay. The pool of money method allows these guys to have just as good a time as the rest of us, without having to worry about whether or not they can afford it.
So, you see, you're NOT paying for friends; you're paying for infrastructure.
Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
So, what bothers you is that they are good at marketing themselves.
That is like bitching because your real estate agent never mentioned that you would have to cook your own meals in your new house.
I'm sorry, showing only the good side of things is not "good marketing". It's "dishonest marketing".
It's like those army commercials where the guy is climbing a rocky mountain with no safety gear and when he reaches the top, the spirit of his ancestors salutes him or some ridiculous bullshit like that. It doesn't show all the hard shit you have to go through in the army. You don't see the squad being under fire, the guy's friends getting shot and dying, you don't see him sitting on a stool in the kitchen peeling potatos all day.
If a person is finding out about the negative aspects of frats after joining, he has been deceived or maybe even lied to. This is not a good thing.
Our set up is very similiar, albeit it a little pricer I believe. That stems from the fact that our national is run by monkeys who provide us with nothing, so we're responsible for everything, including our own insurance and house upkeep (which is 2 houses, now).
Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
So, what bothers you is that they are good at marketing themselves.
That is like bitching because your real estate agent never mentioned that you would have to cook your own meals in your new house.
I'm sorry, showing only the good side of things is not "good marketing". It's "dishonest marketing".
It's like those army commercials where the guy is climbing a rocky mountain with no safety gear and when he reaches the top, the spirit of his ancestors salutes him or some ridiculous bullshit like that. It doesn't show all the hard shit you have to go through in the army. You don't see the squad being under fire, the guy's friends getting shot and dying, you don't see him sitting on a stool in the kitchen peeling potatos all day.
If a person is finding out about the negative aspects of frats after joining, he has been deceived or maybe even lied to. This is not a good thing.
Riiiight, and when Monster.com shows their commercials they never tell you that you'll probably have to send alot of resumes to prospective employers before landing that perfect job, and when you buy a box of Legos you have to put some work into it to make them look like the picture on the box. You're being lied to.
Add me onto the list of people that doesn't need to pay to have friends.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
So, what bothers you is that they are good at marketing themselves.
That is like bitching because your real estate agent never mentioned that you would have to cook your own meals in your new house.
I'm sorry, showing only the good side of things is not "good marketing". It's "dishonest marketing".
It's like those army commercials where the guy is climbing a rocky mountain with no safety gear and when he reaches the top, the spirit of his ancestors salutes him or some ridiculous bullshit like that. It doesn't show all the hard shit you have to go through in the army. You don't see the squad being under fire, the guy's friends getting shot and dying, you don't see him sitting on a stool in the kitchen peeling potatos all day.
If a person is finding out about the negative aspects of frats after joining, he has been deceived or maybe even lied to. This is not a good thing.
Riiiight, and when Monster.com shows their commercials they never tell you that you'll probably have to send alot of resumes to prospective employers before landing that perfect job, and when you buy a box of Legos you have to put some work into it to make them look like the picture on the box. You're being lied to.
I find it hard to believe that people in college, supposed adults, are surprised that it takes effort to be in a fraternity or any organizartion really. All those events take work to pull off, you can tell because usually things go wrong and people are running around all confused because they didn't go to the meetings When you join there's no one to clean up after you or plan activities for you, or help you have a good time. If you're lucky, you can hire a cook (but cooks don't work for free), have people within the chapter who care enough to plan things (but they won't do all the work and might ask you to help out), and are surrounded by awesome dudes and/or ladies (but not everyone is going to be your friend and since people are people some of them will be huuuge dicks). You can't sit on your ass and play video games, drink beer, smoke pot, and watch anime all day. The fraternity might require you to take some role in keeping things going be it as small as washing dishes or as large as paying to live and eat at the house and maybe throwing some parties. It'd be great if it was like all the movies where they have an unlimited budget for whatever they want, the house is spotless, and they can party all night, still go to classes, and win the homecoming parade. But that's not how life works.
Also I was totally pissed when my Guess Who box didn't come with wisecracking game pieces. :P
As far as frats when I was in College the one I went to didn't allow them, the reasoning I had heard was universities that previously didn't have them and then added frats saw a marked increase in on campus rapes. I have not stats to back it up, it's just what I heard from my pysch professor.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
As far as frats when I was in College the one I went to didn't allow them, the reasoning I had heard was universities that previously didn't have them and then added frats saw a marked increase in on campus rapes. I have not stats to back it up, it's just what I heard from my pysch professor.
What college?
A lot of colleges started getting rid of them after Colgate got sued in relation to a multple deads DUI accident that involved greek guys. Colgate ended up buying up all the frat houses and making them campus housing.
I was in a fraternity and its something id do all over again. Being Greek is not for everyone and some people forget that issue when they join a Fraternity/Sorority. I have just as many friends that are not greek as i do that are greek.
The classic "i don't have to pay for friends" is a bullshit lame attempt at an argument. Gone are the days of owning a house, throwing parties and not giving a shit about anything ('60s). Now there are many different insurance policies that each chapter must be under, laws followed to "throw" a party, and ultimate responsibility lies on not only the chapter itself, but individual members also (usually officers).
Having a list for a party is necessary not only by the national office, but also by campus rule set. Lists must be turned-in in advance (1-2 days) and if something were to happen to someone that wasn't on that list everyone is royally screwed. A house is not free, having food for rush, parents weekends, or social functions is not free. There are dues so that things can be paid for up front and no one is free loading.
Most importantly, Greeks give back. Philanthropies are a major part of each national organization. Not only does each chapter give to their own charity, but helps the other organizations on campus as well. Volunteering and raising money/food/etc is done by each organization on campus as well.
What you put into your organization is what you will get back. I put in a lot of time and effort and got back life long friends, great memories, better social skills, and confidence. Being an officer for most of the time i was in the fraternity helped me learn new skills that I'm using at my current job; leadership, management, budgeting, etc. Had i just been a bump on a log and just drank and went to meetings then i wouldn't have learned these things. Putting my time into day to day operations gave back more than i imagined.
The important thing to remember is going greek is not for everyone and theres nothing wrong with not being greek.
kastickboy on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
So not only do other clubs throw better parties, but they can do better philanthropy shit as well?
As far as frats when I was in College the one I went to didn't allow them, the reasoning I had heard was universities that previously didn't have them and then added frats saw a marked increase in on campus rapes. I have not stats to back it up, it's just what I heard from my pysch professor.
What college?
A lot of colleges started getting rid of them after Colgate got sued in relation to a multple deads DUI accident that involved greek guys. Colgate ended up buying up all the frat houses and making them campus housing.
Central Washington University. For those who want to go to a state school in the ass end of nowhere.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm sorry, showing only the good side of things is not "good marketing". It's "dishonest marketing".
I'm inclined to believe that you aren't really all that familiar with marketing.
As long as you don't outright lie, or lead people to believe something that is untrue, then it is not dishonest.
Market is about presenting yourself in the best light possible. Its up to the student considering joining to ask about the negatives. Curious if you'll have to do a lot of work? Ask.
If the brothers are lying in answers to questions aboutthe negative aspects of the fraternity, THEN it is being dishonest, but presentingthemselves in the best light possible is simply what marketing is.
And who joins a club in college thinking that they won't have to do any work to help run it, anyway?
Posts
"Not having the luxury of a data store of each human being's individual maturity level, sometimes it's necessary to make a 90 plus % true generalization for the sake of arguement."
I was going to go with "Look, I can be a dipshit in multiple threads at once."
I don't get this. Why is it the responsibility of non-asshole members of group X to denounce the asshole members of group X? This comes up sometimes, but really only for social groups that are unpopular or elite. Frats, muslims, etc. How often do you see people demand that moderate christians reign in the evangelicals or ask Jesse Jackson to apologize for any crime committed by a black man?
The entire thing smacks of "Denounce them loud enough so that you sound like me and are therefore acceptable."
Yeah because being black requires a preliminary screening process, and continued blackness requires the payment of dues on a regular schedule and conformity to various sets of rules. How 'bout if you agree that these guys who create this stereotype you hate are such shit-heads, you kick them out of your frats? Or are you suggesting that it's our responsibility to kick them out of your frats? Because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that. And if your frat did, congratulations, on every one of the five pages of this thread people have acknowledged the existence of exceptions. Regardless the fact remains that it is not our responsibility to make your private clubs look good.
Or you could judge people as individuals instead of spewing all manner of venom towards an entire group. The idea that people are responsible for their own actions is not an entirely meritless one. I'm sure I got some sort of motivational speech about not being prejudicial towards people I haven't met in school, but the actual content escapes me right now.
Of course, that would require you to meet many fraternity members instead of raging on the internet.
Yeah because I've lived in Oxford this long and never met any fraternity members.
edit: Just used walmart because it's big. Any store, institution, etc would work to eliminate your ridiculous complaint.
Actually, I think what he is suggesting is more akin to bitching at a Target in Maryland.
Kappa Kappa Kappa?
That depends whether or not they're chapters of the same frat. If they are, the house at Florida State may be a better house to complain about it in because they're more likely to take it up the ladder than the immediate brothers of the assholes in question. But frankly neither would actually work. And thus the raging against the institution.
Actually what I'm suggesting is more "you're not the problem? Then I'm probably not talking about you, am I?".
And Florida State certainly has its share of assholes. Although Ted Bundy was a good start.
The original school founding prohibited both a NCAA football team and Fraternities.
Unfortunately, they had to open up to the fraternities after a lawsuit in the eighties.
Yeah. Frats are stupid.
What? I know that Harding, a Christian college, doesn't allow fraternities. What grounds did the frats have to forcing themselves onto campus?
As it is right now, my college is the only one of 9 (Count em, NINE) surrounding colleges that has a greek system of any kind.
You speak as if someone in a fraternity somewhere has power or influence over some other fraternity. "You're being a fuckstick, Im kicking you out of the fraternity system." That's up the individual chapter and its members - and their national headquarters if they are nationwide.
The same grounds on which they force themselves onto girls, I presume. :P
hahaha 'too many'
I recognise the distributed nature of the system, but its also the case that the national whatever board do have a certain amount of control over what goes on in individual chapters, or the sorority nonsense I linked earlier couldn't have happened. I submit that the bad frat/soro's are allowed to get away with too much, and that more effective leadership would solve a lot of these problems. Unfortunately, it seems that that good leadership is either there from the start or not.
I find it interesting that the non-white/band/boho frats and sororities have a much better reputation than the WASPy ones. its a pity that they're getting lumped in with the rest, since the bad frats seem to be mainly sourced from that entitled mid-to-upper socioeconomic class in the north, and the good-ol'-boy/gal redneck system in the south, plus the sports-scholarship crowd all over.
Really, the thing about fraternities that pisses me off is that they try to sugar coat greek life during rush week. They have free food, cookouts, a bunch of activities... everything looks great with it. Then some unsuspecting freshman joins and finds out that he has to attend a number of weekly meetings, do a bunch of tedious crap to keep the frat running; nothing like he expected when he pledged to the frat.
http://fantasy.premierleague.com/my-leagues/
The join code for the CLASSIC league: 214755-65927
The join code for the HEAD-TO-HEAD league: 5294-3346
So you expect to live in a house and have someone else clean up after you? Or run the house on some magical fund instead of paying to live and eat their alongside the other brothers? Most organizations have meetings, or have tedious crap that keeps them running. Someone who goes into it expecting it to always be roses is just deluded. That's like complaining abourt WoW because you have to pay monthly fees. There's no such thing as a free lunch etc.
No I don't. I speak as if A) frat-guys are the norm in frats,
It's amazing how hypocritical supposedly free-minded people can be.
So, what bothers you is that they are good at marketing themselves.
That is like bitching because your real estate agent never mentioned that you would have to cook your own meals in your new house.
Aren't these "band" or "chem" coed fraternities just national organizations somewhat like an honor society? I'm unaware if these people even have houses.
At least in my area, the "non-white" frats have a major problem with violent hazing, scarification, and the like.
But they do have a better reputation for not binge drinking, fucking or any of those other stereotypes already mentioned of the typical white Abercrombie frat member.
As of last semester, dues were a total of $314.00 (yeah, it's geeky, I know. I was actually the one who suggested the number at the budget commitee meeting.)
$112.50 of that is national dues, which we send off to the national office. Allow me to break that down further for you.
$72.50 goes toward insurance. My particular fraternity, on the national level, has an insurance policy that covers each individual brother up to a million dollars. This is something that we intend not to have to use, but it is nice to know that, if something goes wrong at an event, or some one gets hurt, or something, we have this kind of money to back us up. Being that we are also a JEWISH social fraternity, we have the best lawyers money can buy, if it comes down to legal matters, of course many, if not all, of them are AEPi alums.
$40.00 is simply national dues. This goes to paying for the national office, paying the sallaries of national employees, funding regional and national conventions, and all sorts of other things. This money isn't simply being handed off to one guy, I've met the guys from national plenty of times, and I can assure you that they're using the money wisely.
The other $201.50 goes into our chapter's bank account. This is the money used for our budget, and is no one's money but our own. It is used for hosting parties. It is used for going out to play laser tag or paintball, it is used for advertising during Rush week and running pledge events, it is used for events that we hold for our families.
You might ask why we have to pay dues up front, rather than paying for each thing ourselves. Well, when you're hanging out with your buddies, and you decideto order pizza, but none of you have any cash on you, what do you do? You end up going hungry. Us? Well, we just call up the guy with the chapter debit card (either president or treasurer, depending on who has it that day,) and we get our pizza paid for. Having a pool of money to draw from makes it that much easier to plan events, without having to worry about outside factors to each member's finances at any given time.
We also have some brothers who do not come from the best of financial situations, and have worked out with the chapter a lower rate to pay. The pool of money method allows these guys to have just as good a time as the rest of us, without having to worry about whether or not they can afford it.
So, you see, you're NOT paying for friends; you're paying for infrastructure.
I'm sorry, showing only the good side of things is not "good marketing". It's "dishonest marketing".
It's like those army commercials where the guy is climbing a rocky mountain with no safety gear and when he reaches the top, the spirit of his ancestors salutes him or some ridiculous bullshit like that. It doesn't show all the hard shit you have to go through in the army. You don't see the squad being under fire, the guy's friends getting shot and dying, you don't see him sitting on a stool in the kitchen peeling potatos all day.
If a person is finding out about the negative aspects of frats after joining, he has been deceived or maybe even lied to. This is not a good thing.
But of course we're all paying for friends and not kickass events like this float trip.
Riiiight, and when Monster.com shows their commercials they never tell you that you'll probably have to send alot of resumes to prospective employers before landing that perfect job, and when you buy a box of Legos you have to put some work into it to make them look like the picture on the box. You're being lied to.
:roll:
You're being silly here.
Also I was totally pissed when my Guess Who box didn't come with wisecracking game pieces. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zvTRQr7ns8
I know its old but it cracks me up god damn it!
As far as frats when I was in College the one I went to didn't allow them, the reasoning I had heard was universities that previously didn't have them and then added frats saw a marked increase in on campus rapes. I have not stats to back it up, it's just what I heard from my pysch professor.
pleasepaypreacher.net
What college?
A lot of colleges started getting rid of them after Colgate got sued in relation to a multple deads DUI accident that involved greek guys. Colgate ended up buying up all the frat houses and making them campus housing.
The classic "i don't have to pay for friends" is a bullshit lame attempt at an argument. Gone are the days of owning a house, throwing parties and not giving a shit about anything ('60s). Now there are many different insurance policies that each chapter must be under, laws followed to "throw" a party, and ultimate responsibility lies on not only the chapter itself, but individual members also (usually officers).
Having a list for a party is necessary not only by the national office, but also by campus rule set. Lists must be turned-in in advance (1-2 days) and if something were to happen to someone that wasn't on that list everyone is royally screwed. A house is not free, having food for rush, parents weekends, or social functions is not free. There are dues so that things can be paid for up front and no one is free loading.
Most importantly, Greeks give back. Philanthropies are a major part of each national organization. Not only does each chapter give to their own charity, but helps the other organizations on campus as well. Volunteering and raising money/food/etc is done by each organization on campus as well.
What you put into your organization is what you will get back. I put in a lot of time and effort and got back life long friends, great memories, better social skills, and confidence. Being an officer for most of the time i was in the fraternity helped me learn new skills that I'm using at my current job; leadership, management, budgeting, etc. Had i just been a bump on a log and just drank and went to meetings then i wouldn't have learned these things. Putting my time into day to day operations gave back more than i imagined.
The important thing to remember is going greek is not for everyone and theres nothing wrong with not being greek.
ZAPP BRANNIGAN: Kif, I have made it with a woman! Inform the crew!
Fry: Why am I sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?
Bender: Ahhh, what an awful dream. Ones and zeroes everywhere... and I thought I saw a two!
Central Washington University. For those who want to go to a state school in the ass end of nowhere.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'm inclined to believe that you aren't really all that familiar with marketing.
As long as you don't outright lie, or lead people to believe something that is untrue, then it is not dishonest.
Market is about presenting yourself in the best light possible. Its up to the student considering joining to ask about the negatives. Curious if you'll have to do a lot of work? Ask.
If the brothers are lying in answers to questions aboutthe negative aspects of the fraternity, THEN it is being dishonest, but presentingthemselves in the best light possible is simply what marketing is.
And who joins a club in college thinking that they won't have to do any work to help run it, anyway?