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Identifying the Moment
Charles Kinbote
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Too often I've looked back at flirtations that never went further and realized that shit, the moment passed by, I was just too hesitant or too blind to act on it. Whether because of overly subtle behavior or sheepishness on one of our parts', shit that could've become an actual relationship kinda fizzled. It doesn't help that my first three or four girlfriends kinda spoiled me; they (or their friends on their behalf) all came to me and said "I like you, want to go out?" Now I've outgrown both apparently the type of girl that does that and the age where messengers get shot, so that's not really an option anymore. It's even trickier, because I'm slowly discovering that for some girls, if you don't make a move within the first few days of hanging out, they assume complete disinterest, while others make it a whole, long process. Another painful factor is my own retarded method of entering relationships; I try to become better and better friends until I feel I can cross the line from friend to boyfriend. That don't worky so goodly.
Basically, how do you, personally, or in general, tell when the moment is right in a "courtship" to pop the hardest question?
Also, this isn't a thread about when to go in for the first kiss, or attempt to do so-and-so physical action. This is when to make the first move in a relationship as a whole. I don't mean to initiate a session of phat makeoutz, I mean to try to actually begin something like a partnership. I know it's a tricky thread to contribute to because things are different for every girl, but this is more of a general advice-offering than for any specific instance, so have at ye. Please.
Basically, how do you, personally, or in general, tell when the moment is right in a "courtship" to pop the hardest question?
Also, this isn't a thread about when to go in for the first kiss, or attempt to do so-and-so physical action. This is when to make the first move in a relationship as a whole. I don't mean to initiate a session of phat makeoutz, I mean to try to actually begin something like a partnership. I know it's a tricky thread to contribute to because things are different for every girl, but this is more of a general advice-offering than for any specific instance, so have at ye. Please.
Charles Kinbote on
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That's the common advice, but I just can't take it; I'm not the kinda guy to be like "well, I guess I'd date her...and sure, I guess I'd date her too", I focus on one girl at a time until it becomes resolved one way or the other, and as a result there's so much goddamn buildup the idea of potentially throwing it all away with a single question scares the bejesus out of me.
That's why you gotta ask a girl out before you even have the time to fall completely in love with her. You sound a lot like me -- although you've had infinitely more girlfriends than me ... :x -- and for me it helped that I ask someone out once I figure out that "hey, she sounds like someone I would want to know better and hey, she's acting nice to me".
Another advantage of dating someone before you're friends is that nothing is really lost if the date fails or she refuses, you can still be normal friends without the awkwardness of a months long hidden crush behind you.
You're not acting shallow by asking a girl out before you know each other better, you are just make your intentions clear. I've known a girl who got terribly angry at a friend who wanted to be more than friends, the girl had the feeling the guy only acted nice to her because he wanted to get funky with her, instead of honestly acting nice to her.
I'd say just ask the girl in question out if you guys have spent more than an average amount of time talking/hanging out for how long you've known each other. It doesn't have to be some grand gesture or anything, just casual coffee and a movie or something like that to build the relationship and romantic interest.
Also, I know you said it's not a thread for advice on when to kiss her, etc, but the best (BEST) way to judge the interest of a girl is to do little physical things, like touch her arm while you talk or stand just a tad bit closer to her than other people. If she moves away or seems uncomfortable don't push it, she's probably not interested.
Good luck!
The consistent problem is (A) my shyness and (B) my shitty gauging of affection. The shyness is something I can work around usually, but the gauging is awful. I've had girls I pined for tell me, six months later, "Hah, you know, I used to like you. We could've been a really cute couple, you know?" It isn't that all girls show affection in different ways, though they do; it's more that I just can't tell what's being nice, what's being a good friend, and what's showing interest. Like this current girl will call me sweet, tell me that she loves me (not like dramatic-announcement, more like as a response to something that I say), hug me, all that, but girls have done that before and not had any interest, so I'm still a bit wary.
It's a bit ridiculous, in fact. I've only been refused once in asking someone out, and she asked me out a month later (I'm not going to claim that I'm some suave dude, I just wait until I can't wait no more) but I am still a being hewn from the trees of the Wood of Rejection Fear.
is there a reason girls act the way they do? all coy and then like, flirty? i dont know if i'm conveying my thoughts correctly, but wouldnt it just be easier if they werent so damn secretive about these types of things?
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I used to think the same thing, but then I thought about how I'm...well, not exactly coy, but I don't just state my motives blatantly. Fear of rejection and all that.
Doesn't work that way.
my view of women now is essentially so skewed, that I'd need a girl to attach "I want you now" onto a bat, and then hit me with said bat before I'd realize she was into me. Because, for all I know, she's like every other girl I've ever been into. Flirty, but so not into you.
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*An angry The Cat.
I agree with this part, at least...not because I'm naturally distrustful of women or whatever you seem to be saying, but because there's no level of consistency for what indicates interest. It's almost impossible to indicate clear interest without setting yourself up for being rejected (obviously), and when I first kinda got into the dating scene, things I figured were clear indicators (constant, constant hugging, focusing the conversation on me, show concern for me) ended up not being indicators at all. Now, of course, when I encounter these things, I just take it as friendship.
If this was any other girl, I'd probably just say "fuck it" and ask her out, but this girl, I am to understand, gets asked out/hit on a LOT. She's actually a little wary of it, and I know that if the answer was no, it would be the abrupt end to a friendship.
Would you rather go for the relationship or stay in a sexually tenuous friendship?
Really, most girls who hug you all the time *are* interested in you. Just, don't take anything for granted, but that's a given.
Asking someone out is hard, and shyness is definitely a problem. I've asked out two guys, been turned down once and had the other fall through. The point is, it's not the end of the world. The only way to get over being shy is to put yourself out there come hell or high water and realize that everyone is as insecure as you are, whether they want to admit it or not.
Also, the reason that a lot of girls are probably "not so into you" is because you don't give them a lot to be into. Not that you're not a great, well rounded person, but you've got to show her that. Just treat her like any other person and don't worry about getting friend-zoned, because there is no such thing.
Also, wrt "There's no level of consistency for what indicates interest;" It's almost like different girls are entirely different people! Seriously, there's no level of consistency with guys, either.
She is one of three or four girls that regularly hangs out with a group of guys, so as for distance, that's pretty tricky. She doesn't say that she loves them (as she does for me), and I'm sure from the outside that's a very positive thumbs-up, but from the inside it's just not the same sign. I mean, maybe if I was the kinda guy who got mad bitchez hurling themselves at him, but as far as girls go it's basically the three or four I've dated and two or maybe three who liked me for a while, but the feeling wasn't reciprocated. I ain't the prettiest dude, and I've been told I have some self-esteem issues, so I don't leap for things if I have any worries.