The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
NFL/NBA eligibility restrictions / NCAA
Elki
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
Are bullshit.
You can't declare yourself eligible for the NFL draft until you're out of high school for 3 years, and it's 1 year in case of the NBA. Why the fuck not? Is it because the players aren't physically mature to play before then? The MLB could make the same argument, but instead they have minor leagues for development of the younger players. The NFL/NBA get to use collegiate athletics as a minor league system, but without having to pay for it.
The NFL's rule was challenged by Maurice Clarett in 2004, a court agreed with him, but the ruling was eventually overturned. SCOTUS did not hear his appeal.
So, discuss? What's up with that bullshit?
You can't declare yourself eligible for the NFL draft until you're out of high school for 3 years, and it's 1 year in case of the NBA. Why the fuck not? Is it because the players aren't physically mature to play before then? The MLB could make the same argument, but instead they have minor leagues for development of the younger players. The NFL/NBA get to use collegiate athletics as a minor league system, but without having to pay for it.
The NFL's rule was challenged by Maurice Clarett in 2004, a court agreed with him, but the ruling was eventually overturned. SCOTUS did not hear his appeal.
So, discuss? What's up with that bullshit?
Elki on
0
Posts
We really need a thread to discuss how utterly fucked up the NCAA is.
The NBA exception, as detailed by Howard Stern in his recent interview with Bill Simmons, is to protect the teams who are drafting these players. After getting burned by preps to pros players who didn't flesh out, teams wanted to protect their draft picks, which in todays money flushed NBA are worth millions. Now teams can see a guy play through a year at NCAA (Usually D-1) level, and thus they can protect their interests. This is also a valid reason for football too, though we have never seen Football without the exception.
As an extra, Oden-Durant wouldn't be as big as it is right now if both of the guys were coming out of high school.
Yes indeed!
Seems like bullshit to me, coming from a Hockey fan's perspective, where kids get drafted at 18, and where the majority of them play in Major Junior in the Canadian Hockey Leauge (comprised of the three regional leagues, the WHL, OHL and QMJHL). The NHL does not pay for these teams, but they also have the AHL as a developmental pro league and minor league.
Plenty of time to go to college later in life if you so desire. Of course, if you're only admitted because you can do something athletic in the first place, that may be a problem for you if you blow out your knee in your first pro training camp. However, that seems like a decision that athletes should be allowed to take personal responsibility for.
The players aren't mature enough, they aren't good enough, they aren't smart enough.
Who said they were worried about the NFL?
This whole thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Players are fine. The reason? A steady pool of players, not a watered down pool of players. Why do you think the NBA went to this rule? Too many kids trying to make it into the NBA and just floundering.
Football definitely needs a minor league for physical maturity, and they get it for free from the NCAA.
And NFL Europe, which is sponsored by, YOU GUESSED IT, the NFL.
Not really sure what your point is here. This system has been in place since football was around, some college players go to college just to get into the NFL. The colleges certainly aren't hurting when they can pack 100k people into a stadium and the players aren't hurting when they go to the NFL and make 250k a year minimum salary.
There's no attention pampering in big time college programs? And I've seen the behavior of our athletes, and I'm not sure how yours are any worse, for the lack of restrictions.
Yeah, I know. Just seems like the effects would be even worse if they were even younger. Iunno.
The NFL Europe is like a mini-mini-development league. Small potatoes. And why shouldn't the players be able to just go straight to the pros and make the money?
And if you're wondering why I made it, it's because it seems that some people have a problem with collegiate sports being so professional, so I wanted to make a thread about what is in my opinion the biggest culprit of that.
Because they aren't good enough, mature enough, or smart enough. Because the NFL doesn't want to bust (25 mil signing bonus, 5 mil a year for 5 years) on players who haven't played a down of real football.
Collegiate sports are far from being professional. What translates as good on the field (Option offense, spread option, players like Gino Toretta and Jason White and Eric Crouch) in college is not anywhere near as good in the NFL, where there are no undersized linemen or linebackers and the defensive backs are 5'9" or above.
It is still a bunch of kids out there, and they are doing well to keep them out of the NFL for that period.
And a bunch get scholarships for a free college education?
The teams don't want to get rid of it because the NCAA provides a feeder program which allows the teams to sift through the talent. The NCAA elevates the players to a new level of play so that they can compete on a level with other draft prospects.
Say you are a team after the 3 year restriction is removed. Before you had an intelligable system to find your draft picks. You have the bowl system, you have the Senior Bowl, you have only so many D-1-A schools who are combing for the premier talent. From this you can make a wise use of your few and ever so valuable draft picks.
Without the system you now have to sift through a high school system that is
A: Massive.
B: Wildly varying in level of play.
The amount of screw ups that occur in the draft will drastically increase. Marques Colston like players (Guys who either got picked at the bottom of the pecking order who rise to stardom) become common at every position. The massive confusion and the new money that has to be spent on a scouting program overall means a less enjoyable product.
Why do you want to get rid of the restriction again?
Edit: And Elkamil, your idea that the players will just be able to go to the pros and make money easy is naive at best. I mean, the average NFL career is like 3 games, and only 2% of players get drafted. They won't be able to make easy money because they'll be forced to take chump change by teams who now have to treat every new draftee as a massive development project. No one looks at high school stats because either the player improved drastically in college or he was a beast in high school but you can't be sure if its because of him or because his competition are a bunch of wimps.
I would sympathize with the guy who came from a podunk high school and was just good enough to be a third in a D1 system, improves massively in college, and gets drafted for big money. That guy not only doesn't get drafted, we never even know how good he could have been. Brian Urlacher is a sure shot hall of famer and he needed the University of New Mexico so he could show that he could play at the college level as well as he did on the high school level. If there weren't any restrictions no one could have known how good he was, and he could very well not have been drafted.
The entire idea just seems sort of insane.
Also, as has been pointed out before, high school football is a whole different animal, where one top-tier athlete becomes the total focus of their strategy, and formations and concepts are very different. Basketball is basketball, hockey is hockey, baseball is baseball, but all football is not football. College football affords a middle ground, a transition for those players, to get used to a more rigid system and show how they can function in it. NFL scouts already bitch endlessly about how hard it is to evaluate talent between college and the pros (see: David Klingler), imagine if they had to do the same for high school.
i dont know about paying them directly, but they should definitely be able to solicit and accept any endorsement deals that they can get
1)Are you asserting that the reason the NHL isn't doing as well as the NFL or the NBA is different age restrictions for entry? Because, well, of all the reasons that the NHL is not as big other sports, thats probably near the bottom of the list.
If you aren't asserting that, why are you bringing it up?
2)If the players aren't mature, good, or smart enough, then age restrictions aren't needed to keep them out of pro football or basketball.
The health of the league is extremely important to players salaries. There is a reason Paul Pierce makes more money than Chris Pronger.
As for the NCAA, it really deserves its own thread, because how it treats the marquee players is only the tip of the fuckup iceberg.
Then theres the entire Title IX side of it. Pay a male student athlete and you have to pay the women equally. Paying the football team would end up costing a school at least twice it's payroll because of the womens pay.
The NBA did their thing because they were getting burned on failing stars. The NFL did theirs because not many 19 year olds are big enough to survive a game. The NFL, because of team size limits, don't even have dedicated special teams players anymore. If the player isn't being groomed to start or be a good backup for a starter, he's cut and someone else is stuck on the special teams.
David Stern :P
Not Howard.
do you think collegiate athletes should be able to cut endorsement deals though?
LeBron James is a huge exception to the rule. For every King James you have a hundred James Lang or JR Smith, who should have gone to college for a year or two to learn some basics of life and basketball.
Naw, that is just one of the reasons hockey is irrelevant. Age restrictions are needed to keep them in, because if they declare for the draft they lose eligibility. If Joe Blow declares early, doesn't get drafted, and ruins his eligibility, you've taken a player who maybe had a shot at being good and is now 2 years behind.
Who are they going to pay? The athletes? The colleges? They already make a bundle off of college football. The NCAA? Why, so they can fuckup more BCS rules?
It doesn't really make sense. A new minor league system here in the states wouldn't work. Ever. There is already the CFL, NFL-E, and college football. Another talent draw? No thanks.
Not to mention the psychological effect that is in play with kids in high school who decide to ignore academics and focus solely on basketball in an attempt to break out.
Minor league systems are great and I don’t see any reason they couldn’t exist alongside university programs, but ask yourself if a high talent athlete had the chance for minor league pay and minimum exposure or had a chance at a scholarship plus the level of exposure that bowl games/march maddens provides which do you think they would take? Which would ultimately serve them better in the long run?
Does it deserve its own thread? Probably, but it doesn't really work if you don't include this with it. People would just say "amateurs! should get no money!"
It's hard to pretend that's the reason they don't get paid when you admit that it's a feeder system, though. And harder when you condone it.