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Unsecured wireless networks.

SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGamingRegistered User regular
edited July 2007 in Games and Technology
Can we leech? As long as you aren't accessing the other PCs on the network, if you see a network in a public place that has no security, are you within your right to go for it?

Lets discuss here, instead of the iPhone thread. Go.

SniperGuy on
«134

Posts

  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    KungFu on
    Theft 4 Bread
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You really shouldn't IMO, its one thing if you are sending off a quick email and need internet, but I've known people in apartments who leeched for years off thier neighboors unsecured wiresless (and did some fairly heavy downloading too... poor bastards were probably wondering why thier connection was so slow)

    Edit - Noticed the 'public place'... well what defines a public place? I'm in NYC a lot, so pretty much anyplace that could be considered 'public' could be in range of someone home network.

    LockeCole on
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't think there are specific laws against it but I could be wrong. I think it still falls into a legal "gray" area.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I've wondered this as well. I have my wireless unsecured because mine was one of the first houses in this area, but the block has filled in since. I should probably check to see if I'm supplying someone else, and look at securing that bitch.

    Dodge Aspen on
    Xbox - Dodge Mega
    Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018

  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    Limed and QFT.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    Not securing your connection is the dumbest thing you can do. For god's sakes I'm pretty sure every router comes with a disc that will wizard you through putting a simple password on it. That is enough for 99% of people.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't think there are specific laws against it but I could be wrong. I think it still falls into a legal "gray" area.

    There are a few counties/cities/towns with it being illegal, but I really don't know how well it would hold up if they ever tested it. You are broadcasting a low level RF signal, and much like your trash put out to the road it is in most places public property.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    There have been cases where leechers have been prosecuted.

    Zxerol on
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    KungFu on
    Theft 4 Bread
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    It's more secure then a basic password. I don't recall ever hearing that encryption can negatively effect network performance.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    MAC addresses can be spoofed so easily, this is pretty much the same as not securing your network at all.

    Zxerol on
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Not securing your connection is the dumbest thing you can do. For god's sakes I'm pretty sure every router comes with a disc that will wizard you through putting a simple password on it. That is enough for 99% of people.

    Hell my, Linksys has a button on the front of it that if pressed, it automatically configures to WPA encryption.
    Zxerol wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    MAC addresses can be spoofed so easily, this is pretty much the same as not securing your network at all.


    And would require someone to know my device's MAC Address.

    KungFu on
    Theft 4 Bread
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Zxerol wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    MAC addresses can be spoofed so easily, this is pretty much the same as not securing your network at all.


    I'd like to point out that this is true. It's much easier to spoof a MAC address then it is to crack the encryption. Personally I use both.

    YodaTuna on
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Xeno- It's more like driving off with someone's car if the keys are in it. You know it's wrong, but hey, it's not secure.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    It's more like driving off with someone's car if the keys are in it. You know it's wrong, but hey, it's not secure.

    This only works if they are in the car as well. You aren't taking their internet from them, you are sharing it without permission.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    It's more secure then a basic password. I don't recall ever hearing that encryption can negatively effect network performance.
    I know that WPA almost halves your performance on certain devices.

    How would you go about enabling MAC address filtering?

    FreddyD on
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    It's more secure then a basic password. I don't recall ever hearing that encryption can negatively effect network performance.
    I know that WPA almost halves your performance on certain devices.

    How would you go about enabling MAC address filtering?

    Log into your router and go to the security tab. The login will be slightly different from brand to brand. Just google it.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Legally, you can't do it.

    Illegal acts are still illegal when they are acomplished by taking advange of the victim's stupidity.

    Evander on
  • unpurposedunpurposed Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Turn off SSID and change the default key, at the very least.

    When I got my wireless router a couple of months ago, I forgot to do this since I was in a rush to go somewhere. Got back literally 30 minutes later and about 4 people in my vicinity had already used my connection, ranging from simple net browsing to what looked like hardcore kind of stuff.

    Worst thing was that I knew all of the people who had used my connection since I was the one who set up their computers and in some cases built them.

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal and I know there have been cases involving the matter.

    unpurposed on
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    It's more secure then a basic password. I don't recall ever hearing that encryption can negatively effect network performance.
    I know that WPA almost halves your performance on certain devices.

    How would you go about enabling MAC address filtering?

    There should be a menu on your router that lists the MAC addresses allowed to access your network.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    I always laugh when I find an unsecured network with all of the default info still in place. I giggle and think to myself "I could lock you out of your own network if I really wanted to be a dick."

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    Limed and QFT.

    I disagree with this. It's more like leaving a table of candy out by the road. Or in a park that you live near. With no message or anything. Just a table with a bowl of candy on it.

    SniperGuy on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't think there are specific laws against it but I could be wrong. I think it still falls into a legal "gray" area.

    There are a few counties/cities/towns with it being illegal, but I really don't know how well it would hold up if they ever tested it. You are broadcasting a low level RF signal, and much like your trash put out to the road it is in most places public property.

    I think, actually, that if the case were to come up, precident would be more akin to power or cable lines.

    These lines go outside of your home, but that doesn't mean that it's legal for others to tap into them.

    Garbage is different because, by putting it out, you are declaring that you are giving up ownership of it.

    Evander on
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    Limed and QFT.

    I disagree with this. It's more like leaving a table of candy out by the road. Or in a park that you live near. With no message or anything. Just a table with a bowl of candy on it.

    FYI, don't eat that candy.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    I don't think there are specific laws against it but I could be wrong. I think it still falls into a legal "gray" area.

    There are a few counties/cities/towns with it being illegal, but I really don't know how well it would hold up if they ever tested it. You are broadcasting a low level RF signal, and much like your trash put out to the road it is in most places public property.

    I think, actually, that if the case were to come up, precident would be more akin to power or cable lines.

    These lines go outside of your home, but that doesn't mean that it's legal for others to tap into them.

    Garbage is different because, by putting it out, you are declaring that you are giving up ownership of it.

    Most likely this is how the courts would see it, but it is an RF signal over the public spectrum. The grey area as it is right now has no legal protection (in most places) for this signal, even though the real "theft" as it is is the bandwidth.

    Basically, I am agreeing with everyone else in saying that its not something one should do. It isn't illegal (yet) in a lot of places, but it probably will be.

    Oh, and for the record, my network is completely open. I am surrround on all sides by an acre of dense forest. Anyone who needs a little bandwidth in the woods and can get a signal, more power to them. :P

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Some businesses, cities and colleges offer free wireless internet to anyone within range. So how do you know when it is legal or not to use a network?

    FreddyD on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    Some businesses, cities and colleges offer free wireless internet to anyone within range. So how do you know when it is legal or not to use a network?

    This, while true, holds no meaning in the eyes of the law. Not knowing whether or not something is illegal is no defense.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Heh. My town's City Hall uses wireless and its unsecured. Not that I connect to it, though I did try once out of curiosity.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Axen wrote: »
    Heh. My town's City Hall uses wireless and its unsecured. Not that I connect to it, though I did try once out of curiosity.

    I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    Limed and QFT.

    I disagree with this. It's more like leaving a table of candy out by the road. Or in a park that you live near. With no message or anything. Just a table with a bowl of candy on it.

    FYI, don't eat that candy.

    Dammit, how I am going to make Natural Selection apply to people now!

    LockeCole on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Axen wrote: »
    Heh. My town's City Hall uses wireless and its unsecured. Not that I connect to it, though I did try once out of curiosity.

    I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while.

    They'll never take me alive!

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    LockeCole wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    Well, it is technically stealing. I don't know the official legal stance, but you are essentially taking something that is not yours, and justifying it by "it was not secure" is similar to trespassing into your neighbor's pool because the gate wasn't padlocked.

    Limed and QFT.

    I disagree with this. It's more like leaving a table of candy out by the road. Or in a park that you live near. With no message or anything. Just a table with a bowl of candy on it.

    FYI, don't eat that candy.

    Dammit, how I am going to make Natural Selection apply to people now!

    Bear traps and "Free Beer" signs.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    Some businesses, cities and colleges offer free wireless internet to anyone within range. So how do you know when it is legal or not to use a network?

    This, while true, holds no meaning in the eyes of the law. Not knowing whether or not something is illegal is no defense.
    This is true, but one of the requirements of a law is that it is unambiguous.

    FreddyD on
  • SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I always laugh when I find an unsecured network with all of the default info still in place. I giggle and think to myself "I could lock you out of your own network if I really wanted to be a dick."


    I always think this as well. Some people just make it too easy.

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I always laugh when I find an unsecured network with all of the default info still in place. I giggle and think to myself "I could lock you out of your own network if I really wanted to be a dick."


    I always think this as well. Some people just make it too easy.

    Yes, but all they would have to do is hard reset the router. Big woop. Now if you have physical control over it, and use it to have some fun with your family members...

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • CampionCampion Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    unpurposed wrote: »
    When I got my wireless router a couple of months ago, I forgot to do this since I was in a rush to go somewhere. Got back literally 30 minutes later and about 4 people in my vicinity had already used my connection, ranging from simple net browsing to what looked like hardcore kind of stuff.

    How does one go about figuring out what random people connecting to your network are using your connection for?

    Campion on
    4484-7718-8470
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Campion wrote: »
    unpurposed wrote: »
    When I got my wireless router a couple of months ago, I forgot to do this since I was in a rush to go somewhere. Got back literally 30 minutes later and about 4 people in my vicinity had already used my connection, ranging from simple net browsing to what looked like hardcore kind of stuff.

    How does one go about figuring out what random people connecting to your network are using your connection for?

    You can pretty much assume they're using it for porn.

    Captain K on
  • Wedge BiggsWedge Biggs Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I always laugh when I find an unsecured network with all of the default info still in place. I giggle and think to myself "I could lock you out of your own network if I really wanted to be a dick."


    I always think this as well. Some people just make it too easy.

    Yes, but all they would have to do is hard reset the router. Big woop. Now if you have physical control over it, and use it to have some fun with your family members...

    If the mouthbreather can't secure his network or change the damned default password, there's no way in hell he can find the reset button.

    Wedge Biggs on
    I ain't never crossed a man who didn't deserve it. - Artis Ivey Jr.
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    KungFu wrote: »
    Zxerol wrote: »
    KungFu wrote: »
    My favorite way of securing my wireless network is not by encrypting the signal, but instead by whitelisting MAC Adresses. Any MAC Address of a computer not entered into a list on my router cannot connect to the network. I believe this is an advantage to other networks due to possibly better network performance without encryption? That could be in my imagination though.

    MAC addresses can be spoofed so easily, this is pretty much the same as not securing your network at all.


    And would require someone to know my device's MAC Address.

    Which, on a wifi network, is very easy to get.

    Zxerol on
  • FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I always laugh when I find an unsecured network with all of the default info still in place. I giggle and think to myself "I could lock you out of your own network if I really wanted to be a dick."


    I always think this as well. Some people just make it too easy.
    Seriously. If you have wireless internet and don't know what people are talking about in this thread you should go here.

    FreddyD on
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