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Mirror's Edge (or movement in an FPS)

RookRook Registered User regular
edited March 2008 in Games and Technology
Mirror's Edge (or movement in an FPS) It's EDGE day here in the UK, and once again I'm rather dazzled by the cover. It almost makes me not feel ashamed to buy it (the strangely phallic Wii cover last month was an unusual drop in quality).

DICE is ready to talk about their new game. And it's not Battlefield, or even a Battlefield spin off. Their new property is all about movement, running, jumping, climbing. It's a game that wants you to feel everything, you're not just running, your legs are pounding into concrete trying to keep you up right and moving forward. It's a a game that wants you to leap of the edge, twisting in midair to get that shot off before the ground into you. It wants you to move past people, or over people, crashing through a window before you'll stop for cover. It's all about the parkour inspired chic that's currently riding high with Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia and the soon to be added Assassin's Creed. But with every other game doing this, what makes it worthy of a cover? Well, mainly because it's still an FPS.

It's not the first FPS to do this, recently Arkane has probably been most adventurous as far as the mainstream goes with Dark Mesiah. Sword play added momentum to your steps, and suddenly you're not just watching a blade fly back and forth across the screen but your lunging and swinging with every slice. A hefty blow would send you realing backwards or worse yet, knocked to the floor having to pick yourself up again, a tradition that looks set to continue in The Crossing. F.E.A.R. dabbled in the concept with your character able to throw kicks, although arguably Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay was far more visceral in this respect, even if it did occasionally switch to third person.

The indie scene as always has been more adventurous, taking chances that would perhaps alienate boardrooms and the marketing departments. Half-Life mods such as the opera come complete with flips, jumps and somersaults with the camera mimicking the player’s movement (and often inducing nausia too). Although Aliens versus Predator, also encroached on this stomach churning action, mixing up multiplayer to more than just a shootout, with aliens scuttling up walls, leaping around and using movement rather than precision aim to bring people down.

But in a world filled with disembodied hands holding guns, with running rarely achieving more than an increase in movement (half-life) or heavy acrobatics, characters stopping or flipping on a dime rarely presented as more than a bump on camera movement, maintaining pixel perfect accuracy(UT). Is there really room for a game where the guns aren't as important as the hands holding them, and the feet carrying the camera?

So cheesy marketing line aside (Putting the person back into first-person - although quickly clarified with it's an adventure, not a shooter), what are people's thoughts?

Personally I'm pretty excited, as these kinds of features done right I think add a whole lot to the game when you start concentrating more on the movement and momentum. So as I realise many of you probably don't have access to this fine vestibule of gaming information, how about some discussion on movement in first person games? I'll try and grab some scans when I get home, not much in the way of screenies, but the concept lead character looks hot.

Oh: PC, PS3, 360. With 360 being lead platform.


Edit: Original Edge Article here

Rook on
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    AiranAiran Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Phallic?

    I thought it was great! Replacing the dagger in the SAS emblem with the Wiimote with the appropriate motto :D

    I'm not particularly convinced this'll be good. Motion sickness will probably play a part, especially if the movements are sudden. I best pick up the issue to see what it's all about....

    Airan on
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    i read the feature the did on it too, and must say i'm excited. all the ideas are pretty simple, and i even if they don't get it all perfect i still think it'll be a huge leap forward for all firstperson games. will be keeping an eye out for any new info on this one.

    also hope the keep the white room in, maybe as a VR Missions type mini game.

    as for last months EDGE cover, i've got to agree with Airan. loved it, and with certain rare exceptions EDGE's covers are always a better alternative to tech mags that plaster half naked women all over their covers.

    Wraith260 on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    two of the games you mentioned there, F.E.A.R. and Riddick, both also feel very tactile and kinetic when things kick off. I can imagine that would be the kind of feeling they'd want to create with this, if they're going for that kind of immersive movement and stuff. Just playing F.E.A.R., there was something in the way the sound, the animation, the particles and everything that was going on that combined to make it feel like you were doing more than just clicking a mouse when some dots lined up over the right shape.

    darleysam on
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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I used to play this Half Life 1 mod, The Specialists... Now that was some crazy action if you got a bunch of high-quality players that refuse to use any heavy guns so they can still fly across the levels.

    Hell, for a time period I refused to use any guns whatsoever to make the game more fun.

    Raiden333 on
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    TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This idea sounds good to me, but I'm not sure if Dice would be the ones I would pick to do it. I didn't mind Battlefield but I was turned off of Battlefield 2 because the guns didn't feel like guns to me. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by this, but I'm a little apprehensive if of the idea from a company that couldn't make shooting bad-ass weaponry as fun as it should be.

    Trevor on
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    RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    This idea sounds good to me, but I'm not sure if Dice would be the ones I would pick to do it. I didn't mind Battlefield but I was turned off of Battlefield 2 because the guns didn't feel like guns to me. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by this, but I'm a little apprehensive if of the idea from a company that couldn't make shooting bad-ass weaponry as fun as it should be.

    Yeah, absolutely agree on this, I wouldn't exactly say any of DICEs games have felt really immersive. But then again, they're not exactly idiots either when it comes to making games.

    Rook on
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    FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I love parkour, so this looks really neat. Though I'm not sure why they're trying to do it as a first person shooter. For things with lots of platforming, third person games have always been more immersive for me, mostly because it's a lot easier to see where you're going.

    I'm also not entirely sure how they're going to implant some of the parkour stuff. I mean, rail flipping and kong jumps just won't be the same if you can't see the rest of your body.

    Frem on
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    RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    Rook on
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    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    Fireflash on
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    CrapfestivalCrapfestival Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    Yeah, I generally also know what activities my other limbs happen to be partaking in, even if they aren't directly within my line of sight.

    Crapfestival on
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    DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    And you can't snap your head back to look behind you while moving forwards.

    DarkWarrior on
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    Bouncing_SoulBouncing_Soul Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    Bouncing_Soul on
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    CrapfestivalCrapfestival Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    Absolute bullsh-

    ...
    oh my god

    Crapfestival on
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    FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The jumps are going to have to be automatic. First person platforming is a Bad Idea.

    FreddyD on
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    MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    I would wager that there's a large percentage of gamers who cannot, in fact, see their feet in real life.

    Monoxide on
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Frem wrote: »
    I love parkour, so this looks really neat. Though I'm not sure why they're trying to do it as a first person shooter. For things with lots of platforming, third person games have always been more immersive for me, mostly because it's a lot easier to see where you're going.

    I'm also not entirely sure how they're going to implant some of the parkour stuff. I mean, rail flipping and kong jumps just won't be the same if you can't see the rest of your body.

    well thats kinda the point. to give the same kind of immersion and freedom of movement found in 3rd person games, but with a 1st person perspective.

    as for seeing your body/knowing what your limbs are doing, they're addressing this too. the game may be a first person shooter, but the emphasis will be on movement, not combat. you're not going to be just a gun floating in the middle of the screen. you'll see your body, it will move in a realistic fashion in context with the movements you're making. the article makes mention of how well implemented the sense of momentum is. one example being that when you go into a crouch from running you slide, legs extended infront of you, head and body snapping back. there are a couple of screens showing a few examples of this and more*. maybe they're being overly ambitious, maybe i'm just buying into the early hype, but the brief hands on detailed in the article gives positive impressions of the most basic aspects, so hopefully they'll be able to extend the good work to the full game.

    *i can't scan them, but hopefully a quick search will turn something up, unless Rook wants to add the rest to the OP.

    Wraith260 on
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    FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Monoxide wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    I would wager that there's a large percentage of gamers who cannot, in fact, see their feet in real life.
    Zing!

    FreddyD on
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    Bouncing_SoulBouncing_Soul Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    Monoxide wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    I would wager that there's a large percentage of gamers who cannot, in fact, see their feet in real life.
    Zing!

    You know, I realized that after I hit the submit button.

    Bouncing_Soul on
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    warder808warder808 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'll have to check this out when I get home. I cant see these images at work. It's funny my brother really loves all that parkour stuff. He was just saying how they should make a game like this. I told him it would be hard, the whole fun of watching that stuff is that it is real, and difficult.

    The environements will have to seem very realistic. Not the graphics specifically but all the objects and their placement in the environments. It cant look like a parkour park. I was guessing the game should play like Tony Hawk, but more fun.

    warder808 on
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    VicVic Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Monoxide wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd only be like real life which is, obviously, lame.

    First-person view is not like real life. In a first-person game you only see a rectangle in front of you. You don't get the awareness of your surroundings like you do in real life.

    You can also see your feet in real life.

    I would wager that there's a large percentage of gamers who cannot, in fact, see their feet in real life.

    I laughed altogether too much at this comment, and this thread in general.

    Vic on
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    Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Looks like I need to pick up EDGE tomorrow. All this leaping about stuff is cool and all, but does it mention anything about bothching a jump, landing on your ass, hitting the floor with your arm to brace your fall after a perticularly awkward drop you don't recover from correctley? With this train of thought going, it would be pretty cool to sneak up behind a player and kick him in the back of the leg/sweep kick him to bring him down.

    Hotlead Junkie on
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    AlpineAlpine Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This is what I've wanted forever

    A run and gun meets Splinter Cell acrobatics

    Fantastic

    Alpine on
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    StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The first screenshots for this game just popped up

    080110-1.jpg

    080110-2.jpg

    I rally like the look of it. Bright, clean and colourful. However it's really not a game where it seems all that useful to make judgements based on screenshots. When we see it in motion for the first time will be when we might get any real idea about wether DICE can pull off the first person parkour action.

    Stolly on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Looks good, but not having read the article, I'm slightly confused exactly how well the whole rapid pakour movement thing will work with a FP perspective. Not to mention a first person perspective for a game that's designed for consoles.

    Spoit on
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    GertBeefGertBeef Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Chick looks like a fucking alien.

    GertBeef on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2008
    racist

    bongi on
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    StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The EDGE article is available online, at Next Generation.

    Here

    It gives the impression that DICE had managed to get a basic and working model for first person moving together already back then. So I think the game sounds really promising.

    Stolly on
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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    This sounds amazing and I hope they can deliver. The setting even sounds interesting: She's a courier for criminals in an oppressive society? I'm liking this shit.

    Drovek on
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    EskimoDaveEskimoDave Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm not really a fan of single player FPS, but shit son, this piques my interest.

    EskimoDave on
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    redstormpopcornredstormpopcorn Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I really hope that picture from the scan doesn't make it into any final marketing materials. That is a godawful job of Photoshop head-replacement; I'm pretty sure the human spinal column does not move in ways that would make that position possible.

    redstormpopcorn on
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    peterdevorepeterdevore Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I always wondered if using flat colors instead of textures would make enough of a rendering speed difference to allow for visibly more complex geometry and shaders. This game seems to be going that route (maybe with textures up close, but flat colours from a short distance), since there is almost no geometry simplification to be seen over a distance, and everything looks really smooth (which should require lots of vertices).

    It's funny how they almost color coded the game, what's up with all those weird red ramps on people's roofs? I will be impressed if they pull off climbing and running around smoothly in first person. Knowing where your character is in the world and what (s)he's doing is a lot harder that way.

    I loved climbing around and exploring in assassins creed, so I hope this game will bring the same feeling of freedom. Unfortunately, going by how those ramps are set up in that first screenshot, it does seem pretty linear and not a totally open city you can run around in. Might be just a test level though, so does anyone know how the real game will be set up? Will it be sandboxy or will it be more traditional?

    I would love to see a futuristic sandbox game with more variation than AC. To leap around in a big city as a rogue agent with high tech gadgets. I want to do something like the assassination at the beginning of the first Ghost in the Shell movie in a game.

    peterdevore on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2008
    i'm really not an expert in the slightest, but i would have thought that basic texturing is so computationally easy now that covering everything with low-resolution textures wouldn't really let you do anything super exciting with geometry

    something like assassin's creed appears to have roughly the same polygonal complexity but still high texture resolution; i guess it just depends on the skill of the developer

    bongi on
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    AngryPuppyAngryPuppy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I vaguely recall from the EDGE article that the use of bold primary colours is for two reasons; first of all the world is a kind of sterile, clean, controlled utopia - and the brightly coloured architecture is an attempt to gloss over how dead and stagnant society is with splashes of bold colour and fake some kind of vibrancy. Something like that anyway, setting wise. Secondly rather than being completely sand-box-freestyle your character has a kind of sixth sense for picking good escape routes, and the bold colours are used to kind of effect that skill in the player - you can obviously see from the screenshot of the rooftops there where you'd run along the crane and leap to that suspended girder, along with a lot of coloured ramps and the like on the lower rooftops.

    AngryPuppy on
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    TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Colors? In my next-gen games?

    Turkey on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2008
    i like how the colour is reflected on the white, that's neat

    bongi on
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    peterdevorepeterdevore Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bongi wrote: »
    i like how the colour is reflected on the white, that's neat

    Hey, you're right, you can see it near the red crane on the left. I thought (reflected diffuse?) lighting like that was supposed to be really difficult without a ray tracer? Is there any current game that does that?

    They might bake the reflected colored lighting like they do static shadows in some games. Or these might be bullshots. Any case, they look pretty slick compared to most next gen games.

    peterdevore on
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    StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bongi wrote: »
    i like how the colour is reflected on the white, that's neat

    Hey, you're right, you can see it near the red crane on the left. I thought (reflected diffuse?) lighting like that was supposed to be really difficult without a ray tracer? Is there any current game that does that?

    They might bake the reflected colored lighting like they do static shadows in some games. Or these might be bullshots. Any case, they look pretty slick compared to most next gen games.


    Well, RSC 2 was, IMO, the best looking game, bar none, last gen and BF: MC looks spectacular, so I don't question DICE's ability to squeeze some great graphics out of the PS3 and 360. However I haven't seen any official comments about the screenshots so they might very well be bullshots or high end PC screens, since it's announced for PC as well.

    Stolly on
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    RookRook Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ohh, thread resurrection. I should really do a proper opening post or something, although saying that, two "might be render" screenshots don't really constitute any new developments.

    Rook on
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    StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So, the hype is starting up in earnest now.

    It does sound bloody fantastic.

    Stolly on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Nice Eurogamer preview.

    Have we seen this in action yet? Sounds ace.

    LewieP on
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