Soy Beverage vs Cow's Milk

Dortmunder

For the past week I've been using a Soy Beverage* for my breakfast cereal instead of 2% Milk. Looking at the two cartons, the Soy stuff seems to have a lot more vitamins and what-not, but my girlfriend has raised concerns, saying she's not sure that's as healthy as milk.

I tried to do a little online research, but most of the pages I found looked like pretty amateur - so I'm having a hard time taking anything there seriously. Wikipedia cites a bunch of stuff for positive health effects, and a bunch of uncited stuff for negative effects.

Does anyone have any knowledge in this area? I'm not lactose intolerant or anything, but I heard that Soy stuff may be better for you. Haven't noticed any side-effects yet, but it's only been a week.

*President's Choice "Organics" Soy Beverage

bsjezz

I'm pretty sure soy milk can be quite fatty if you're worried about that. And "soy beverage" sounds dubious to me, in the same way that "fruit beverage" sounds dubious when compared to "fruit juice." Otherwise soy and soy based products have been a staple of Eastern cultures for a long long time and is generally regarded as pretty healthy so any problems with the 'soy beverage' would be in the processing and additives, I'd imagine. Check the ingredients and nutritional information.

Feral

I don't think you can really say that one is "healthier" than the other overall. They have their strengths and weaknesses.

Soy pluses:

- Lower in fat and carbohydrates
- Great source of protein
- Soy contains phytoestrogens which may prevent cancer. But they may cause cancer, too. Jury's still out on that one.

Soy minuses:

- Large amounts of soy may impair thyroid function
- We still don't know what phytoestrogens do

Milk pluses:

- Good source of calcium and not a bad source of protein either
- Fortified milk may contain other vitamins like vitamin D

Milk minuses:

- Higher in fat and carbohydrates than soy. You can mitigate this by drinking skim or nonfat milk
- Some milk may contain bovine growth hormone, the health effects of which aren't completely understood.

What it boils down to is if you're taking your vitamins and you're getting enough calcium and you're not drinking a gallon of the stuff per day, soy milk is just fine.

Pheezer

bsjezz, it's soy milk the same as any other soy milk is soy milk. It's not really milk, it's a beverage made from soy beans and some other stuff.

The big myths surrounding soy milk tend to revolve around estrogen. It contains none. It contains phytoestrogens that inhibit estrogen absorption in women, resulting in reduced risk of certain cancers for them. In men it has no effect because it's not real estrogen.

There's one study that found the people who consume massive amounts of soy protein on a daily basis sometimes see a reduction in testosterone levels. You'd probably need to drink over two litres of soy milk per day to hit that level, and I have suspicions that in that study the men replaced normal protein with soy protein completely, something I don't imagine you're doing. You're not cutting out red meat completely because you're drinking soy milk, right?

As for fat, just compare the back of the carton to the back of the milk carton you'd normally drink from. In any case, the fat is pretty low in soy milk, certainly not enough that a cup or two worth of in the morning is going to get you overweight.

The primary concern would really be in the amount of SUGAR in some soy milks. A lot of soy milk brands will use too damned much sugar and that's really less than ideal in the morning, so be careful about that part. Vanilla flavored soy milk will tend to be lower in sugar than chocolate, but original/unflavored will be the lowest.

I won't go into the benefits, you've read the wikipedia article. I think personally that they far outweigh the only real risk (sugar) so long as you're not drinking 2 litres of the most sugary chocolate soy milk for breakfast every day.

DiscGrace

FYI, "soy beverage" is a perfectly normal name. You may also see "soy drink" or something of the sort - "soy milk" is technically not a correct name because milk is something that comes from animals.

Feral covered the health benefits and issues pretty well, too. As with most things, if you don't consume it to excess, you're fine.

bsjezz

DrDizaster wrote: »

bsjezz, it's soy milk the same as any other soy milk is soy milk. It's not really milk, it's a beverage made from soy beans and some other stuff.

ah, cool cool - I've never seen it called 'soy beverage' but I'm in Australia so that's probably why.

FromAlpha2Omega

Feral is pretty much dead on, although I think the protein utilization (or biological value) is much lower because of a lack of certain amino acids.

Rhino

I think Feral summed it up good. They aren't exactly the same thing and they both have "potential" benefits and negative effects.

One thing I used to do when I worked out a lot was to mix half a glass of 2% Milk with half a glass of Soy Milk and then add protein powder. It came out pretty dam tasty. It's a lot of calories, fat and protein to take in first thing in the morning so you might want to change it around and adjust according to your diet. You can skip the protein powder and it still tastes good.


EDIT:

Also I just thought of this. I don't know the exact benefits, but there are "other" types of milk that might be good for you. The ones I know off hand:

Almond Milk (yes, from nuts)
Rice Milk (from rice)

Here is an article:
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/08/17/soy_milk_rice_milk_or_almond_milk_which_is_the_best_alternative_milk_for_you.htm

Also other "animal" milks:

Goats Milk (hard to find in the states? but most common besides cows milk?)

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk#Other_milk_animals

Get ya some tasty Yak or Horse milk... um, ugh.

Also most stores have "Lactose Free milk". I have no idea what's in them, but going to check out the cartoons next time I'm in the store.


I've had both rice and almond milk and both of them are really tasty. They cost a lot for a little cartoon though I think they both taste better then soy, but don't know the health benefits off hand though.

Pheezer

FromAlpha2Omega wrote: »

Feral is pretty much dead on, although I think the protein utilization (or biological value) is much lower because of a lack of certain amino acids.

...which is a good reason not to drink a glass of it and pretend you've eaten an entire meal?

mrgilmorean

Actually, soy protein has all the essential amino acids as do several legumes. Also, according to Wikipedia, soy protein is basically equivalent in nutritional value to animal protein according to the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score which is used by the FAO and the National Academy of Sciences.

Dortmunder

No, I'm not replacing red-meat because of Soy - just the milk I would have at breakfast.

Thanks for the feedback guys - I'm going to read up a bit more and go from there - maybe check out Almond milk at some point.

Etch

The growth hormone thing in milk can be a concern, but certain grocery chains carry milk without the artificial hormones. I know at Publix the regular milk is artificial hormone free (still has the normal cow hormones though) so just check the bottle to see if it is safe or not. And avoid that rice milk crap, it tastes like anus.

Snarfmaster

In general Soybean products are not considered complete in their amino acid profile because they lack the essential amino acid methionine. It's possible that the product was fortified before it was produced though, so i'd check on that.

As far as hormonal levels go, if you think that those phytoestrogens dont have an effect you're sorely mistaken. I can quote numerous studies that link soy protien consumption in men with decreases in both testosterone and LH.

Most adult men can deal with the effects in small doses, however children under no circumstances should be screwing around with anything that can manipulate their hormone levels extensively one way or another.

The thing that frustrates me the most is that you can go to most any Family doctor and they have very little/no knowledge about actual nutrition. Yet people take what they say as cannon.

Rhino

Etch wrote: »

And avoid that rice milk crap, it tastes like anus.

I actucally like the taste of it.

Rice milk, not anus.

It has a cool and refreshing taste to it.

It has like a quadbillion carbs though.

Cojones

I'm a skimmed milk(0% fat) man myself, you get all the good stuff from 2%(maybe with a reduced level of vitamin D because it's fat soluble, though this may be added at some point during it's production) with a lower calorie count.

Yeah, it doesn't taste as good as any other milk variant but it's better for you.

Snarfmaster

Cojones wrote: »

I'm a skimmed milk(0% fat) man myself, you get all the good stuff from 2%(maybe with a reduced level of vitamin D because it's fat soluble, though this may be added at some point during it's production) with a lower calorie count.

Yeah, it doesn't taste as good as any other milk variant but it's better for you.

If you're looking skim that tastes better, try Skim Plus. It's protien molecules are manipulated to make the texture creamier. It really works texture wise you don't notice the difference which is a huge part of the taste.

Six

Snarfmaster wrote: »

Cojones wrote: »

I'm a skimmed milk(0% fat) man myself, you get all the good stuff from 2%(maybe with a reduced level of vitamin D because it's fat soluble, though this may be added at some point during it's production) with a lower calorie count.

Yeah, it doesn't taste as good as any other milk variant but it's better for you.

If you're looking skim that tastes better, try Skim Plus. It's protien molecules are manipulated to make the texture creamier. It really works texture wise you don't notice the difference which is a huge part of the taste.

I moved to Skim Plus/Skinny Cow a couple of years ago and really like it.

Pheezer

Snarfmaster wrote: »

Snip

If you're going to play Internet Expert you need to provide your evidence rather than just pretending to have it and then not posting any of it.

bigpanda

I switched to Soy about a year back and honestly don't miss regular milk anymore. I'll get a craving for it around Christmas when I'm all nostalgic and want cookies and milk. Since the switch my sinuses have cleared up and in general feel better, but I think that's because I'm mildly lactose intolerant (get kind a phlegmy when I drink cow's milk or eat a lot of cheese).

I also tried the vegetarian thing for awhile (didn't work, I love red meat too much) and they made a point that other animals don't normally drink milk from other species. I've also heard that it's a mutation that allows us to consume it past the infancy stage and not get sick. Can't say for sure if that's fact though.

Snarfmaster

DrDizaster wrote: »

Snarfmaster wrote: »

Snip

If you're going to play Internet Expert you need to provide your evidence rather than just pretending to have it and then not posting any of it.

I'm simply giving advice, and speaking in the same way I would to someone i was counceling or training.
Typically when i give people advice they don't ask for Journal articles to back it up... but for you anything. Here's some light reading. When you find an well done article comparing commercially available proteins you'll find these and many more typically cited.

Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and daidzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro." Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44

Zhong, et al. "Effects of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate and low fat diet on prostate cancer." FASEB J 2000;14(4):a531.11

Aukema HM, Housini I. "Dietary soy protein effects on disease and IGF-1 in male and female Han:SPDR-cy rats." Kidney Int 2001 Jan;59(1):52-61

Ashton E, Ball M. "Effects of soy as tofu vs meat on lipoprotein concentrations." Eur J Clin Nutr 2000 Jan;54(1):14-9


Nagata C, et al. "Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men." Nutr Cancer 2000;36(1):14-8.



Whitten PL, et al. "Phytoestrogen influences on the development of behavior and gonadotropin function." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1995 Jan;208(1):82-6

Keung WM. "Dietary estrogenic isoflavones are potent inhibitors of beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase of P. testosteronii." Biochem Biophys Res Commun 1995 Oct 24;215(3):1137-44

Habito RC, et al. "Effects of replacing meat with soyabean in the diet on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):557-63

I suppose i could also scan my B.S. in nutrition diploma and make it my sig.

mrgilmorean

bigpanda wrote: »

I've also heard that it's a mutation that allows us to consume it past the infancy stage and not get sick. Can't say for sure if that's fact though.

Most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. It is mainly northern Europeans and the like (i.e cultures that developed with cow's milk) that continue to produce lactase during adulthood. Fun fact: 98% of Chinese people (according to some surveys anyway) are lactose intolerant.

Wikipedia has a pretty good article here.

devoir

I am Chinese and I'm lactose intolerant. =/ From what I've been told and read, because I stopped consuming significant quantities of milk as a teenager, I've now lost the ability to produce the enzyme which deals with lactose. If I drink anything close to a full glass of straight milk, especially in milkshake/frothy form, I get nauseous.