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So I just saw that Argos, perennial purveyors of chav tat though they may be, are selling a PS3 with 2 games and another pad for 400 quid. Which is a good deal, probably.
But I do have one question: The upscaling for PS1 and 2 games - is it any good? Aside from one or two games I'll mostly use it to catch up on PS2 games I've missed, and playing old PS1 classics (like WipEout 3 SE, which is my second favourite game ever). So, is it? Or is it shit?
So I just saw that Argos, perennial purveyors of chav tat though they may be, are selling a PS3 with 2 games and another pad for 400 quid. Which is a good deal, probably.
But I do have one question: The upscaling for PS1 and 2 games - is it any good? Aside from one or two games I'll mostly use it to catch up on PS2 games I've missed, and playing old PS1 classics (like WipEout 3 SE, which is my second favourite game ever). So, is it? Or is it shit?
You might want to search around IGN, I think they did an article with comparison shots right after the upscaling stuff was implimented.
SOTC upscaled to 1080p is absolute sex, but i've noticed that the scaling for many other games isn't as good. Sure as hell beats trying to run them at the native res on an HDTV though.
I would say that the upscaling is decent, though I think that the 360 handles it just a little bit better, if you've ever seen that. The PS3 still provides a clean image, but I think they could still do a little more to make it sharper. The higher ratio of compatibility on the PS3 makes it worth it though, and the DVD upscaling is great as well if you're interested in that.
brynstar on
Xbox Live: Xander51
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
It *should* be no worse than being played on the original system. So, if the upscaling is making the game look like crap you could always turn off the upscaling. I am mainly using my PS3 for playing PS2 games and they have all looked great (well as great as a PS2 game can) on my 50" DLP. I've played games like Shadows of Colossus, Oden Sphere, God of War, and Gran Turismo 4. However, I cannot comment directly on PS1 titles, though I kind of feel like busting out Final Fantasy Tactics this weekend.
Wipeout 3 doesn't work on PAL PS3 consoles, I own the original Wipeout 3 on PSX and it locks up after you cross the starting line on a race, copy protection issue that is, same as it does as if the game was pirated.
Guess the game can see that it's not being run on a 'real' PSX due to emulation issues.
Wipeout 3 doesn't work on PAL PS3 consoles, I own the original Wipeout 3 on PSX and it locks up after you cross the starting line on a race, copy protection issue that is, same as it does as if the game was pirated.
Guess the game cannot see that it's not being run on a 'real' PSX due to emulation issues.
Motherfuckers.
Well, that's that idea out then. Just saved 400 quid!
Any idea if they intend to fix PS1 compat, anyone?
SOTC upscaled to 1080p is absolute sex, but i've noticed that the scaling for many other games isn't as good. Sure as hell beats trying to run them at the native res on an HDTV though.
Nope. I made sure that SOTC was the first game I tested and the upscaling is not compatible with progressive scan. That means HALFING the real detail to bob and weave a 1080p image. :v:
Wipeout 3 doesn't work on PAL PS3 consoles, I own the original Wipeout 3 on PSX and it locks up after you cross the starting line on a race, copy protection issue that is, same as it does as if the game was pirated.
Guess the game cannot see that it's not being run on a 'real' PSX due to emulation issues.
Motherfuckers.
Well, that's that idea out then. Just saved 400 quid!
Any idea if they intend to fix PS1 compat, anyone?
Wip3out worked just fine on my PS3 from what I can tell. Mine is a US unit, but there shouldn't be much difference seeing as how it's PSX emulation on both.
Wip3out worked just fine on my PS3 from what I can tell. Mine is a US unit, but there shouldn't be much difference seeing as how it's PSX emulation on both.
Yes but you would have had a NTSC version of Wipeout 3 and not a PAL version, PAL games are notorious for copy protection, anyone remember F.A.D.E that Codemaster's put into their PSX/PS2 games where the game would slowly fuck up over time?
The disc for Wipeout 3 is absolutely mint, so it's not the disc, also i've had two copies of Wipeout 3 and it does it on both copies, just like the backup version on an original PSX.
It could be an issue with the game. Sony insisted that developer use supplied libraries to make PSX games for future compatibility purposes, so all games that bypassed that got broken. I'm fairly sure I remember there being multiple versions of Wipeout thanks to the early ones breaking once PSOnes with different firmware were out, but it could've been another game.
CZRoe is absolutely correct, the PS3's upscaled output takes the default non-progressive image and scales it up to HD for PS2 titles. If you turn on progressive scan in games that support it, it switches the video output to 480p. This is one of my biggest complaints with the upscaling, and why I think the 360 does things just a bit better, since it can use the original progressive source image for games that support it and then scale it up, I believe. It looks a little cleaner.
I have not tried Wip3out on a PS3, so I can't comment. I do know that Sony is committed to improving the software end of the BC, especially now that they're going to start rolling out the non Emotion Engine SKU in other territories such as the US.
brynstar on
Xbox Live: Xander51
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
CZRoe is absolutely correct, the PS3's upscaled output takes the default non-progressive image and scales it up to HD for PS2 titles. If you turn on progressive scan in games that support it, it switches the video output to 480p. This is one of my biggest complaints with the upscaling, and why I think the 360 does things just a bit better, since it can use the original progressive source image for games that support it and then scale it up, I believe. It looks a little cleaner.
I have not tried Wip3out on a PS3, so I can't comment. I do know that Sony is committed to improving the software end of the BC, especially now that they're going to start rolling out the non Emotion Engine SKU in other territories such as the US.
This was driving me nuts with GT4. I thought a game with 1080i support would be great on PS3 (I have it doing 1080p) but the PS3 won't let it do real widescreen as far as I can tell =/ I just end up with GT4 running at 1080i but looking at a 4:3 ratio instead of 16:9
Yeah it's crazy. The PS3 upscaler will only properly upscale the original 480i output of the PS2 games. Anything else and the upscaling kicks off and you're left with original game behavior. Games that support progressive output get screwed somewhat in the process. GT4 gets hit especially hard, I forgot it had its own 1080i mode.
brynstar on
Xbox Live: Xander51
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
The 4:3 thing for 16:9 PS2 games was pissing me off too until I found the full-screen option for PS2 games under the "Game Options" menu (PS3 XMB). Leaving this at "full" is only an option if your TV allows you to compress the aspect of high-def sources (most don't) or else you will find yourself having to modify this option for every game. Leaving it at "full" means that 16:9 and 4:3 games will be stretched to 16:9, so hope your TV doesn't lock aspect controls (all HD sources are supposed to be 16:9 with the source adding vertical pilliar-boxing if needed). The PS3, to some extent, tries to auto-detect the aspect of DVD movies. Some movies will actually show their SD stuff in 4:3 and their widescreen menus in 16:9 and their feature content in whatever aspect it was made for all without you ever having to touch the aspect button. It's too bad it can't do something similar for PS2 games. @!#$!@#
Bit off topic but I really wish on the 60gig ps3 that they had of put in a slot or 2 for PS1/2 memory cards. Would it of killed em? Using my phat ps2 atm for ps2 gaming till I get a hold of a memory card adapter.
Bit off topic but I really wish on the 60gig ps3 that they had of put in a slot or 2 for PS1/2 memory cards. Would it of killed em? Using my phat ps2 atm for ps2 gaming till I get a hold of a memory card adapter.
They would have had to justify the expense to me. I never owned a PS2. Think about it: The only reason they were in the PS2 was because it needed a memory card of some type and it may as well use them for PS1 compatability too. The PS3 has a HDD making that moot. Think about it: The PS2 would have accepted Memory Stick otherwise. I thought about it all through the PS2's lifetime: Even though I never owned a PS2, I would have bought a Sony brand digital camera instead of my Canon Digital Elph because it would have ensured a market for millions and millions of Memory Stick customers rather than just taking its old place as a proprietary form of camera memory... notice the effect the PSP had on MS Pro Duo prices?
Now, notice that I said that "would have bought a Sony." Not "would of." You're thinking of the contraction "would've" and somehow assigning meaning to "of." I normally wouldn't correct someone doing it, but that's because it's easy to see that "of" doesn't mean anything in context but you clearly think that it does. "had of" could only mean "had have" which are two tenses of the same word "to have." The only time that makes sense is when you use it as I did above... "They would have had to justify the expense to me." Note that they are swapped.
Just throwing in a quick tidbit, the PAL PS3's don't have an Emotion Engine for native backwards compatibility, so it has to emulate through software. That means that you get lower compatibility and sometimes slower speeds.
I suppose this thread is the right place to ask this...
Are there any PS2 games that, when emulated on the PS3, actually render in a higher resolution than the original 480i/p/whatever? Or at least, could they theoretically do this? Because I can only speculate how awesome that would look.
Well, it may not have the EE but it does still have the GS (Graphics Synthesizer). I'd imagine that it could be a limitation.
I remember Wip3out's copy protection. Fantastic game, but when my poor psx started to go south (it now only reads games when i lean it on it's left hand side and hit it, but once it's past the second logo it's ok) it suddenly decided that my psx was not a real psx or something and refused to work.
I really liked that game too, it made a rubbish frisbee.
Question somewhat related.. I just picked up a PS3 and I have an older CRT HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. Pretty much all the games end up being displayed in 480p. Does sony have any plans to update the firmware to upscale 720p games to 1080i?
Question somewhat related.. I just picked up a PS3 and I have an older CRT HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. Pretty much all the games end up being displayed in 480p. Does sony have any plans to update the firmware to upscale 720p games to 1080i?
I am in the same boat. I don't think they can upscale 720p games to 1080i. I do know that they are pushing for 1080p, so we should be covered for future titles. I just picked up "The Darkness" and that runs in 1080i.
Question somewhat related.. I just picked up a PS3 and I have an older CRT HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. Pretty much all the games end up being displayed in 480p. Does sony have any plans to update the firmware to upscale 720p games to 1080i?
I am in the same boat. I don't think they can upscale 720p games to 1080i. I do know that they are pushing for 1080p, so we should be covered for future titles. I just picked up "The Darkness" and that runs in 1080i.
Yeah, you've got it right. They haven't announced any plans to upscale 720p-only games. Unlike the 360 where each game usually renders at 720p and is then scaled to the resolution of your screen by the scaler, on the PS3 games output natively at the resolution they're programmed for. I also think the scaling capabilities of the PS3 are not as robust as the 360's. I suppose it's possible that they could add this in a future firmware update, but it's an unknown quantity right now.
Some TV's that only do 1080i do have scalers built in which allow them to accept 720p signals, however I'm not sure how common those are.
brynstar on
Xbox Live: Xander51
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
Question somewhat related.. I just picked up a PS3 and I have an older CRT HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. Pretty much all the games end up being displayed in 480p. Does sony have any plans to update the firmware to upscale 720p games to 1080i?
I am in the same boat. I don't think they can upscale 720p games to 1080i. I do know that they are pushing for 1080p, so we should be covered for future titles. I just picked up "The Darkness" and that runs in 1080i.
Yeah, you've got it right. They haven't announced any plans to upscale 720p-only games. Unlike the 360 where each game usually renders at 720p and is then scaled to the resolution of your screen by the scaler, on the PS3 games output natively at the resolution they're programmed for. I also think the scaling capabilities of the PS3 are not as robust as the 360's. I suppose it's possible that they could add this in a future firmware update, but it's an unknown quantity right now.
Some TV's that only do 1080i do have scalers built in which allow them to accept 720p signals, however I'm not sure how common those are.
Bit off topic but I really wish on the 60gig ps3 that they had of put in a slot or 2 for PS1/2 memory cards. Would it of killed em? Using my phat ps2 atm for ps2 gaming till I get a hold of a memory card adapter.
It's fucked up, but you can always buy it, use it, pack it back up and return it. I kept mine incase friends come over.
But I can understand how someone couldn't justify $15 dollars they shouldn't be spending. They could have atleast thrown in one port atleast.
And to stay on topic, it depends on the game IMO. R&C:UYA looks better using the widescreen 480p in game, but then Okami looks better upscaled to 1080p and smoothed. Just my opinion, but that's kind of my point. The upscaling is definitely a good thing to have, but whether or not it makes the games look better is a matter of opinion and what game you are playing.
Question somewhat related.. I just picked up a PS3 and I have an older CRT HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. Pretty much all the games end up being displayed in 480p. Does sony have any plans to update the firmware to upscale 720p games to 1080i?
I am in the same boat. I don't think they can upscale 720p games to 1080i. I do know that they are pushing for 1080p, so we should be covered for future titles. I just picked up "The Darkness" and that runs in 1080i.
Yeah, you've got it right. They haven't announced any plans to upscale 720p-only games. Unlike the 360 where each game usually renders at 720p and is then scaled to the resolution of your screen by the scaler, on the PS3 games output natively at the resolution they're programmed for. I also think the scaling capabilities of the PS3 are not as robust as the 360's. I suppose it's possible that they could add this in a future firmware update, but it's an unknown quantity right now.
If they make some kind of scaling feature for PS3 games it would only be for future games with updated dev requirements. The PS3 does not have a hardware scaler (that's supposed to be your TV's job considering that HDTV broadcasts can be 720p or 1080i) and doing it in software is just too CPU intensive to do without designing the game around it when we are dealing with PS3 titles ad high-def. Because it includes PS2 hardware and DVD playback is relatively low in CPU usage, there is plenty of extra performance left over for software upscaling. It still surprised me because I expected them to isolate the PS3's horsepower when in PS2 mode (like the Wii's security vs. Gamecube mode & homebrew). You know, to prevent a PS2 exploit from allowing you to play backup PS3 games and such.
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You might want to search around IGN, I think they did an article with comparison shots right after the upscaling stuff was implimented.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
Peace
Guess the game can see that it's not being run on a 'real' PSX due to emulation issues.
Motherfuckers.
Well, that's that idea out then. Just saved 400 quid!
Any idea if they intend to fix PS1 compat, anyone?
Nope. I made sure that SOTC was the first game I tested and the upscaling is not compatible with progressive scan. That means HALFING the real detail to bob and weave a 1080p image. :v:
Wip3out worked just fine on my PS3 from what I can tell. Mine is a US unit, but there shouldn't be much difference seeing as how it's PSX emulation on both.
I have not tried Wip3out on a PS3, so I can't comment. I do know that Sony is committed to improving the software end of the BC, especially now that they're going to start rolling out the non Emotion Engine SKU in other territories such as the US.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
This was driving me nuts with GT4. I thought a game with 1080i support would be great on PS3 (I have it doing 1080p) but the PS3 won't let it do real widescreen as far as I can tell =/ I just end up with GT4 running at 1080i but looking at a 4:3 ratio instead of 16:9
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PSN: SecondReality
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
[This is CZroe]
They would have had to justify the expense to me. I never owned a PS2. Think about it: The only reason they were in the PS2 was because it needed a memory card of some type and it may as well use them for PS1 compatability too. The PS3 has a HDD making that moot. Think about it: The PS2 would have accepted Memory Stick otherwise. I thought about it all through the PS2's lifetime: Even though I never owned a PS2, I would have bought a Sony brand digital camera instead of my Canon Digital Elph because it would have ensured a market for millions and millions of Memory Stick customers rather than just taking its old place as a proprietary form of camera memory... notice the effect the PSP had on MS Pro Duo prices?
Now, notice that I said that "would have bought a Sony." Not "would of." You're thinking of the contraction "would've" and somehow assigning meaning to "of." I normally wouldn't correct someone doing it, but that's because it's easy to see that "of" doesn't mean anything in context but you clearly think that it does. "had of" could only mean "had have" which are two tenses of the same word "to have." The only time that makes sense is when you use it as I did above... "They would have had to justify the expense to me." Note that they are swapped.
Well, it may not have the EE but it does still have the GS (Graphics Synthesizer). I'd imagine that it could be a limitation.
I really liked that game too, it made a rubbish frisbee.
I am in the same boat. I don't think they can upscale 720p games to 1080i. I do know that they are pushing for 1080p, so we should be covered for future titles. I just picked up "The Darkness" and that runs in 1080i.
Yeah, you've got it right. They haven't announced any plans to upscale 720p-only games. Unlike the 360 where each game usually renders at 720p and is then scaled to the resolution of your screen by the scaler, on the PS3 games output natively at the resolution they're programmed for. I also think the scaling capabilities of the PS3 are not as robust as the 360's. I suppose it's possible that they could add this in a future firmware update, but it's an unknown quantity right now.
Some TV's that only do 1080i do have scalers built in which allow them to accept 720p signals, however I'm not sure how common those are.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
That's pretty much what I expected.. thanks guys.
It's fucked up, but you can always buy it, use it, pack it back up and return it. I kept mine incase friends come over.
But I can understand how someone couldn't justify $15 dollars they shouldn't be spending. They could have atleast thrown in one port atleast.
And to stay on topic, it depends on the game IMO. R&C:UYA looks better using the widescreen 480p in game, but then Okami looks better upscaled to 1080p and smoothed. Just my opinion, but that's kind of my point. The upscaling is definitely a good thing to have, but whether or not it makes the games look better is a matter of opinion and what game you are playing.
http://DocumentingLaziness.blogspot.com/
Almost universal. Even many non-HD PC projectors do it.