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Prog and other unlistenable music
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you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
Actually, I think Tool is some of the worst offenders out there for Metal. I'd much rather a sophomoric or teen angsty metal album resonate with someone than bloated, pretentious, ridiculous prog-metal like Tool and Dream Theater.
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Simple minds, simple pleasures, eh, Podly?
That is soooooo pretentious it hurts.
Seriously, there's more to music that masturbatory guitar solos.
So, its bad to like the complicated songs, and you should be ridiculed for that... but if you like simple songs, you're alright.
Seriously, this whole "pretentious" bullshit is retarded, and sounds more like a cover for being into musicians who can't actually play that well (or choose not to if they can).
There's also more to life than 4/4 and verse-refrain-verse-refrain-solo-refrain-end.
which is a dumb thing to say
and pretentious
Dig this, daddy-o. Simple doesn't mean good, but complex doesn't mean good. Often, when a musician focuses on being simple or complex, which many, many bands do, it produces shitty results. What you're saying is that, just because a song is complex, it must have some quality that automatically makes it better than other music. Not so.
I can forgive someone for not liking Dream Theater. But I will kill every single person who doesn't like Porcupine Tree.
Every. Single. One.
I mean seriously, I genuinely enjoy 15min songs filled with excessive guitar solos, and I don’t see what’s wrong with that.
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There's nothing overtly wrong with that, it's just that, for the most part, it's pointless, and complex for the sake of complexity.
The assertion was made, however, that if you don't like that, you must be a dullard.
I remember when you liked Tool and Dream Theater, chile.
NINJAAAAA
Since when are Dream Theater pretentious? They're probably some of the most down-to-earth musicians out there, unless by pretentious you mean their actual music but that is because it's progressive. I actually find DT's album Awake speaks to me in a way most music doesn't. Awake's lyrics focus is on an urban soul lost, confused, and isolated in his enviroment, and i can connect with some of the stuff I have experienced with confusion and change in life.
Why is it pointless? It's music. If you like it, you like it.
In response to the assertion that if you DO like prog rock, you're either being ridiculous or pretentious.
No dumber than the statement it is responding to.
You clearly have little idea of what this word actually means. So stop using it.
Here's a hint: I think you're stupid if your qualifications for "good music" have anything to do with how complex or simple it is. Dream Theater and Tool have both created some genuinely moving music. Both have also created a lot of shit.
Actually, I wasn't saying that at all - I think you've read that into it.
Now, I will offer up that my personal tastes lead me to have greater respect for a good+complex song over a good+simple song. But I will like each piece equally.
This reminds me of a conversation with my wife. She called some of this music "unnecessary". The conversation ended abruptly when my friend asked for a list of music that was strictly necessary.
Edit (added this): I agree that simple for the sake of, and complex for the sake of, do not make for good music. I disagree with the assertion that DT or Tool are complex simply for the sake of. I think there's actually a lot of good shit from each artist that gets routinely ignored by people simply because it is complicated music, and I think that is a dumb thing to do. It's almost like people think there's something wrong with being able to write and/or play something technically brilliant and extraordinarily difficult, no matter how impactful it might be, and that bothers the shit out of me.
Let me put it this way, and I don't think it's going to be a well-received sentiment, but I'm still going to chuck it out there: when Kim Thayil ripped out one of those crazy, complex, masturbatory riffs that he was just so skilled at, it made sense within the context of the song. Other times, and this especially applies to Dream Theater, the crazy shit doesn't actually make sense within the song, and comes across as "Oh watch what I can dooooo!"
I remember we had a thread a while ago about Ion Dissonance and comparable musicians - free jazz, weird noise metal, etc. - that didn't come to a satisfying conclusion except that some music is made for the enjoyment of making it, and if they're too busy having fun themselves to entertain you, that's too bad.
It involved taking a simple beat/refrain/melody and then adding something new every few iterations. It's quite a traditiional idea/device and it works well. Proggressive trance, techno and DnB all worked particularly well as variations on that theme.
Prog Rock does not seem to use the term in the same way, and it hurts my ears. Go home Prog rockers.
Because that shit, in spite of being terrible, unlistenable, and boring, is like catnip to people who play guitar.
I guess the good news is that "unlistenable" prog is of the rock variety, not the good variety.
Those bands aren't the best ones to ask the question about, because they will often result in the same answer as any other band, ie "I like how they sound," which is the baseline for your normal, everyday aesthetic appreciation of music. You might also get "the lyrics are meaningful to me" which is a normal thing.
However there are many bands or rather genres that, at first listen, don't make you nod your head or feel energized by being catchy or sounding good. They are very much acquired tastes. I am curious about why people like that really weird stuff.
Mdsot of that stuff falls under 'post rock", the most retarded genre name ever. Bands like Mogwai, Explosions in The Sky and Godspeed you Black Emperor are strong users of the repetitious melody style.
This, here. Stop paying so much attention to musical fanboys, people. Its terribly irritating to have people reject a band recommendation out of hand because some asshole they know won't STFU about said band.
That is the conclusion, or close enough. Music is born of as many different reasons and aspirations as there are styles of music. Frank Zappa's golden rule: If it sounds good to you, it rocks. If it sounds bad to you, it sucks.
Every piece of music out there rocks somebody. If a piece of music doesn't do for one what it does for me, that's fine, but if one is going to come vomiting garbage on my sofa about it, one is a dick trying to validate oneself.
Whatever, I look like an idiot fanboy in that post, but this was taken from the album thread. All the more appropiate i guess since really enjoying a particular dream theater album apparently makes me pretentious.
I understand prog rock is a rather crazy area of music and musical wankery isn't for everyone, but damn I didn't know it was a crime to have a DT or Rush album resonate with someone. I guess i better listen to obscure-indie music like every other trendy music person so that way I can have my taste judged constantly.
Also: my understanding of the term "progressive" as applied to a genre of music means that the genre isn't all that's involved. For example, Progressive Rock (prog rock) is predominantly rock, but also has other styles mixed up in it. Prog Metal = predominantly metal, but with other shit mixed in it. Example: the DT album cover being bandied about the Album thread contains a solo that breaks down into ragtime piano. And, yes, it "makes sense" for it to be there, provided you've been following the plot of the album's lyrics.
I mean, if Tool is "prog rock", I've certainly listened to it, but... yeah.
While reading Mein Kampf.
I don't see how its pointless. I listen to Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, and Yngwie Malmsteem which are all the epitome of musical wankery.
I play guitar and I like to listen to people who are extremely skilled. I liken it to watching a magician, or the slam dunk contest, or any comparable exhibition. I enjoy it and music is made to be enjoyed, therefore it is not pointless.
I think the crux of it is that many musicians, or people who study music, look at the tastes of non-musicians etc as something inferior, because they are not listening to music with those principles in mind, ie they aren't aware of what makes a really good guitarist, or they aren't aware of the skill necessary to compose a song in this way, etc etc. If someone likes a wankish prog metal band, that's fine, but it's also fine if someone really loves a song that is composed of a whole two chords.
See, that's fine. I went through a period when I started to get good at guitar where I LOVED LOVED LOVED Yngwie. Now I still turn it on occasionally, because, the dude is a virtuoso.
But if Steve Vai is your favorite music, then you are depriving yourself of the depth of music. That stuff's soulless. The vibe that I get from Dream Theater and Tool (I listened to them a lot when I was like 14) is even worse, because they put up the impression of saying somethign truthful and beautiful, but it's all just such mystical pseudo-quippy and pithy sayings that get a boost from overly dramatic music.
I think you're ignoring the fact that people get different things out of music, and art in general
You can listen to music because it's catchy and you want to dance to it, or because it stirs something deep in your soul - but keep in mind that the latter includes Linkin Park fans just as much as anybody else; they just happen to have angry, shallow little teenager souls.
Well I'd hardly consider Steve Vai my favorite anything, since I agree, he sounds like a robot. However, when I want to hear something that is stupidly hard, it fills that niche. I enjoy it for that and I don't think I would call it bad because it lacks emotion. I'm saying you can enjoy music for different things. Not all of it has to be moving or evocative.