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Rainbow Six

Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
edited August 2007 in Games and Technology
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Desperate for any game involving the words "co" and "op" I picked this up this weekend. And despite never having played a tactical shooter (save Gears of War) before, I was fucking blown away. I'm not even done with the game yet, but I already want more.

I know the Xbox had four or five Rainbow Six games, and I'd like to pick them up. I'm worried though; has playing Vegas first ruined the previous games in the series for me?

Feel free to discuss the entire series in this thread.

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    taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Vegas is completely different than the previous R6's. Its much more arcadey than the others, with a bigger focus on shooting everything that moves rather than planning out entries, movement and whatnot. Just be prepared for that

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    SpeakeasySpeakeasy Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I occasionally pick up and play the first two in the series, because they are completely different in terms of gameplay (compared to RS:V). Also the first two have Lone Wolf mode, which I dearly miss in Vegas.

    Speakeasy on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Vegas is completely different than the previous R6's. Its much more arcadey than the others, with a bigger focus on shooting everything that moves rather than planning out entries, movement and whatnot. Just be prepared for that

    All of that kind of died as soon as the series moved to consoles.

    Pancake on
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    The Burnin8orThe Burnin8or Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The previous ones lack the dedicated cover system that Vegas has, keep that in mind. They should be pretty cheap to pick up at this point though.

    The Burnin8or on
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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Raven Shield for the PC was pretty much the last of the "old guard" Rainbow Six games. The Xbox version onwards were more similar to the arcadey Vegas style, sans cover and regenerating health.

    Zxerol on
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    AshcroftAshcroft LOL The PayloadRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It's also a lot easier to die in the old games. Like, if someone with a gun sneezes, there is a good chance that you, your team, and your family will be killed.

    Clearing a room is a harrowing experiance. Every doorway a terrifying portal to your doom. You cannot make any mistakes. Step out of cover with an enemy nearby, and you are dead before you realise your mistake.

    They are very good games.

    Ashcroft on
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    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Well you can die pretty damn instantly too if you play on the highest difficulty in Vegas. There's not really any room for error.

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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Well you can die pretty damn instantly too if you play on the highest difficulty in Vegas. There's not really any room for error.

    Yeah, but in Vegas, it leans far more towards being really fucking annoying rather than compelling like it was in the early games.

    And I mean the PC games by that. Vegas is the first console iteration I can stand and I'm still bitter about it.

    Pancake on
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    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Well you can die pretty damn instantly too if you play on the highest difficulty in Vegas. There's not really any room for error.

    Yeah, but in Vegas, it leans far more towards being really fucking annoying rather than compelling like it was in the early games.

    And I mean the PC games by that. Vegas is the first console iteration I can stand and I'm still bitter about it.

    Yeah the game is still very arcadey. The open level design of the first pc games was pretty cool.

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    RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    eh

    i like the more action oriented rainbow six just fine

    Ranced on
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    VaLiantineVaLiantine Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Everything before Vegas on the consoles sucked. Get Vegas and tell everyone what you do in Vegas because it's pretty fun.

    VaLiantine on
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    RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I've really wanted this game for the pc for a long time, but I can't find it anywhere... I bought Ghost Recon - Advanced Warfighter instead, as I wanted something like that for the LAN I have every now and then with friends. But I was so disappointed with it, and so I continue to search for Rainbow Six - Vegas...

    Rohan on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I actually liked the slimmed down, on the fly style of Vegas. It let the game keep a tighter narrative and really get you excited from opening gunfight to the final one. They were going for more of a 24 feel with it and I think they nailed that type of atmosphere perfectly.

    Previoius R6 games just seemed so scripted, you went from point A to point b and you didn't even realize it was an "action" game, and the overlaying story seemed nonexistant.

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    EZEZ Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I just bought it last month. Ive played nothing but vegas multiplayer since i got it. It is extremely fun.

    EZ on
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    Pajama_ManPajama_Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Rohan wrote: »
    I've really wanted this game for the pc for a long time, but I can't find it anywhere... I bought Ghost Recon - Advanced Warfighter instead, as I wanted something like that for the LAN I have every now and then with friends. But I was so disappointed with it, and so I continue to search for Rainbow Six - Vegas...

    R6: Vegas for PC currently has a wide price droped to $20 at all the Targets i've come across...

    Keep in mind though you'll need a graphics card that has Shader Model 3.0 to run the game, but since you already bought Ghost Recon: AWF i'm sure you are fine.

    Pajama_Man on
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    YumcakeYumcake Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I liked R6:Vegas. I felt it was one of the best in the series even though it had diverged so sharply. The reason was that the whole experience worked, from one end to another.

    I missed the tactical options, and the planning phases, but the AI got the job done. I could give them one task, and they would get that task done, and all with one push of a button. I can't get them to do anything more complex beyond 1 task, but they did that 1 thing right which wasn't always dependable before.

    Cover system was excellent.

    Enemies were far more consistent. In previous R6 games, enemies could take an eternity of 1-2 seconds to respond, or have fucking godlike aim, doing a 180 degree finger-shot kill as you peek around a corner.

    I liked the feel of Rogue Spear in multi-player better than Vegas though. But as for single-player, this was their most polished due to the AI being stripped down to only what it could do well rather than stretching far and achieving inconsistent success.

    Also, I have to note that the aiming in R6:Vegas is very well done. Feels natural, and my crosshair goes where I want it to go.

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    Bouncing_SoulBouncing_Soul Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I loved Vegas a lot, the cover system was a great addition. The regenerating health was definitely a detour from the originals, but there were still some pretty hairy firefights.

    But I agree with Ashcroft, the PC games like Raven Shield are a hell of a lot more tense, and the tangos can shoot you and everyone you know in half a second sometimes. It can be extremely frustrating at times.

    I never really got into the planning phase of the originals, just loaded the defaults. Although one of the maps I was having a really hard time and I created paths for the other squads throughout the whole map. They just cleared everyone out in record time, I didn't have to do a thing.

    The very first R6 was one of my favorites, I used to clean out the first level just by myself with a shotgun.

    I guess I'm just a fan of the (mostly) close quarters combat, like SWAT 4 as well.

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    LachLach Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Rainbow Six 3 for the Xbox was the first Rainbow Six game I liked (I tried the others). Broken Arrow was more of the same, but also pretty awesome.

    Lach on
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    MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ashcroft wrote: »
    It's also a lot easier to die in the old games. Like, if someone with a gun sneezes, there is a good chance that you, your team, and your family will be killed.

    Clearing a room is a harrowing experiance. Every doorway a terrifying portal to your doom. You cannot make any mistakes. Step out of cover with an enemy nearby, and you are dead before you realise your mistake.

    They are very good games.

    I am so reinstalling this (Raven Shield) tonight after that description :D

    Monaro on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The current Rainbow Six games are completely different from the originals, but I like both styles so I don't mind much. The cover system is good in vegas, but I used the lean in rainbow six 3 a ton and it had pretty much the same effect apart from being able to blind fire in vegas, so I wasn't super excited by it, it was just kinda "Oh, neat I guess."

    However vegas had totally some bizarre things in it, the picking up enemy weapons, the random boxes mid mission that allow you to change your weapon and the fact you unlock guns by picking them up. Really strange those. Not really bad gameplay choices, but it feels kinda bizarre in-game, playing co-op with a friend turned into a pair of counter terrorist guys picking over corpses going "Hey! This guy had a revolver! Awesome" "I got me a shotgun off this guy!" "Rad!" which is hilarious.

    I really hope they put some kind of planning back into the series at some point, and make the maps less linear, which would be my biggest criticism of the series current direction.

    -SPI- on
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    YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Favorite game on the 360. They should have put a little more polish on the co-op though so it included the story though.

    YodaTuna on
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The best Rainbow Six was the original.

    Jasconius on
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    SandersSanders Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    If you are wanting to play a real Rainbow Six, you gotta go further back than Raven Shield. Pick up Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear Platinum Pack for $20 on Amazon.

    First you decide who you want to go on the mission with you. You can choose between 1 and 12 operatives in four different teams from a large selection of choices all with different personalities and specialties. Want two offensive teams of 4 each, another team of two as backup and a team with a sniper and a spotter? Or maybe it is a reconnaissance mission and you only want two members to go?

    Then you go to the planning phase where you can set up what routes your teams will follow and what actions they will take. You can set up go codes so that the teams will get ready at specific spots while others get into position for you to give the go for them to all rush in at once and attack from different angles. You can tell them to use gadgets or change aggression at different areas. You can even set up sniper positions and have them face different directions per go code.

    Lastly you decide your equipment that you want to take. Each operative can have a different primary weapon, secondary, two gadgets, body armor, and uniform. You are not forced to have a sniper and a machine gunner, everybody will use what YOU want them to. Want your rear man to have heavy armor in case you are attacked from behind while your leader uses light for quicker movement? So be it.

    After all that you finally perform the mission. You can control any team leader of your choice. If you think your planning was flawless you can sit back as the sniper giving the go codes while your teams do all the work, or you can be right there in the front lines. You can switch teams at any time in the mission and if your leader of a team is killed you take over the next in line. As long as the objective is not failed you will continue to the next mission no matter who is killed, so no more restarting a level just because an AI gets a cheap kill.

    The game does support online multiplayer but you will have to use Gamespy Arcade to find a server. The game has no built in lobby and MSN has removed support the game. The best part however is the online Co-op. Up to 12 people can play. If you only have 5-6 players, you can choose for each player to also get AI backup with them. 4 players can have two AI backup, and 2-3 players can have three each. You can play any mission on story mode of terrorist hunt.

    Sanders on
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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    One of my fondest gaming moments was in that museum level in Rogue Spear. Me and a couple of other guys had for some reason wandered inside a very small replica of an Egyptian room, which was inside a much larger gallery that had a second level overlooking the thing and stairs leading up. The three of us were in there when suddenly a few enemies showed up on the balcony. In another FPS it would just be BLAMBLAM and it's over, but since this is Rogue Spear me and the other two guys are stuck in the Egyptian room with those two bad guys waiting for us to come out. What ensued was a tense firefight consisting mostly of leaning and occasionally firing a shot. I think they eventually realized that we were trapped and lobbed in a frag grenade, but it was really fun until they did that.

    TychoCelchuuu on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I used to do this thing in Rainbow six 1 where I'd have two teams criss crossing through rooms clearing and a single man with a shotgun running straight through the guts. That one guy was a fucking hero. I've watched him run into a room full of terrorists, standing out in the open on a table gunning them all down.

    I miss the planning map and being able to make meticulous routes for my teams.

    -SPI- on
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    MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sanders wrote: »
    If you are wanting to play a real Rainbow Six, you gotta go further back than Raven Shield. Pick up Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear Platinum Pack for $20 on Amazon.

    What does Raven Shield drop/change that makes Rogue Spear the better R6 game?

    Might have to pick it up if it is actually better than Raven.

    BTW does it look like ass? Screenshots suggest it does, but I mean if it's on par with CS 1.6 then I don't mind.

    Monaro on
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    Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I loved Raven Shield to peices, still my favourite co-op game ever (next to ARMA and Op-Flash)

    There were a hand full of things that let it down though - AI that would shoot you from a mile away over a brick wall with only their face sticking out, Team AI throwing flashbangs at doors and then running into a room blinded and generally getting themselves killed.

    On a plus, the guns are very real, multiplayer and co-op was and still is a blast.

    Rainbow Six Vegas I have mixed opinions on. Making the team small kinda borks it for me, games like SWAT 4 show that you can control a team with relative ease on the fly, I never really felt like I was a part of a team in the game. At least the graphics are purdy and the door breaching/entering and AI is much better.

    Still fun though. Sequel is a must.

    Waka Laka on
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    SairusSairus Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    RvS is still Rainbow Six but it had all these 3D rooms in briefings, then the heartbeat sensor/google and all other unnecessary special effects that really bugged me. Rogue Spear was just simple and good.
    One thing I really like is the rush and concentration when you enter a room. You just hold the w key and then you gotta put a bullet in everyone with a gun before they try to pull the trigger at the hostages. And what is the problem with fatigued soldiers? They never recovered for me.

    Sairus on
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    Pajama_ManPajama_Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Best way to enjoy Raven Shield for the PC is playing it exclusively in the planning/spectator mode...

    Sure it may take you 3 bajillion tries and clicks to set up the AI path correctly for that one smoke/flash/gas grenade, but heck that feeling of accomplishment after a beautifully executed AI plan pathing and luck is unmatched :lol:

    Also, for those whom really have a hinkering for iron sight aiming in Raven Shield, there is a mod for it. I'll link as soon as I can find it for those whom might be intrested.

    BTW: Short question; Does Vegas feature any Form of iron sights for each individual guns besides the attachments?

    Pajama_Man on
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    Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pajama_Man wrote: »

    BTW: Short question; Does Vegas feature any Form of iron sights for each individual guns besides the attachments?

    Yeah, all weapons bar the sniper rifles can be used without attachments for pure ironsites. You are allowed
    two attachments (scope, lasersight, larger clip ect) that you can remove at whim. Quite frankly there is nothing more awesome than going in with a no attachments AK47 and letting loose.

    Waka Laka on
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    ginguskahnginguskahn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Its worth noteing that the 360 version is going to be in the "classics" collection next month :)

    Also, its really really good :P

    ginguskahn on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    R6:V is easily the most fun in the series. It takes a lot of control away from you in scenario planning, but the one-button orders function much more cleanly. It's much less tense since injuries don't persist and you can take more damage. If you think R6:V is hard to survive, the older games will blow your mind with how frustrating they are.

    Having said that, I think a good middle ground would be to have regenerating health but damageable limbs like the old games. I.e. your health regenerates to full, but your leg is still wounded so you're crawling along, or your arms are wounded so your aim is wobbly. Imagine playing a 20 minute match where in the last few minutes everyone has full health but terrible aim, a crippling limp, and is half blind.

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    AlejandroDaJAlejandroDaJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I bought R6:Vegas and played it for about a week. It's a decent game as is, but a complete and utter bastardization of the "Rainbow Six" moniker and everything that an R6 game entails. I'd go and redownload my purchased copy of Raven Shield from Direct2Drive but it doesn't work on multi-core processors. Grrrrrr.

    AlejandroDaJ on
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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm an old R6 vet and I enjoy Vegas just fine. While it lacks the meticulous planning and such I'm older now and don't have time for that shit.

    I likes to hop in and shoot me some fools.

    However, I cannot abide by the console-centric changes to Ghost Recon. GR1 for PC was the most tense experience ever. Creeping through the woods only to come out of cover and hear a distant 'pop' and the next thing you see is your own blood pooling out onto the ground - awesome.

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    GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I wish we had a game in the vein of R6 or Operation Flashpoint that a. isn't buggy to hell (i'm looking at you ArmA) and b. is out.

    I miss good military coop shooters.

    This has me hankering to dig out my Rogue Spear and Raven Shield cds.

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    ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I used to do this thing in Rainbow six 1 where I'd have two teams criss crossing through rooms clearing and a single man with a shotgun running straight through the guts. That one guy was a fucking hero. I've watched him run into a room full of terrorists, standing out in the open on a table gunning them all down.

    I miss the planning map and being able to make meticulous routes for my teams.

    It's called Raven Shield, not Crow Shield.

    ben0207 on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited August 2007
    I loooooved Vegas, it's right up there with GRAW as one of my favourite 360 games

    I really hope that in the future games use the cover system of this rather than of Gears, this one is so much better implemented

    bongi on
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    mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    R6:3 was awesome. You had to plan each room entry carefully and cover yourself at all times. Miss a spot and you'll die as easily as RL. Not difficult to the point you want to hang yourself, but it was the perfect amount. Very, very fun playing co-op.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Well Vegas had better cover and better squad direction then gears. I hope other squad based shooters use the vegas method. I also liked the voice acting, it was nice to not hear a default accent from a main character, his twang made the character more alive in my eyes.

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    NexusSixNexusSix Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    OP, IMHO:

    I cannot recommend any of the RS titles on the original Xbox. I absolutely loathed the two I owned, but my complaints are more based around the multiplayer, and it looks like you're more into the co-op/campaign stuff.

    Multiplayer RS on the original Xbox was, in my opinion, total sewage: the targetting was chop-tastic bullshit, the frame rate sucked and body hits did nothing to take down opponents... long story short: you'd better have wired reflexes and be hopped up on 3 or 4 cans of Red Bull to pull off those head shots, because that's what it came down to in order to win. That, or overpowered shotguns or knowing how to toss pineapples at strategic points in order to take out the enemy team without them even seeing you.

    I picked the original Xbox titles up and tried sticking with them for a while because I was playing competitively with a team at the time. I did not have fun and the team eventually dissolved. I swore I'd never pick up another RS title again.

    Then Vegas came out shortly after I got my 360, and a friend kept badgering me to pick it up. He swore up and down that the complaints I had about the previous games were gone and that Vegas was a fantastic tactical FPS for campaign, co-op and MP. He was fucking right: the game felt "right," aiming had that smooth Ghost Recon feel to it, multiplayer was finally fun because I felt like I felt in control of the gun's sights and the aiming (a feeling I did not get in previous RS games), and the overall quality of the game was top-notch.

    I think you're enjoying the cream of the crop with Vegas. I'm sure you could find some great deals on the previous games on the orginal Xbox and you might have some fun with the campaign/co-op, but I don't think there's anything there that comes close to matching Vegas. If you do decide to pick up some of the older titles, just make sure you pull up some reviews first--I didn't like the first RS Xbox release even though a lot of folks did, but I do know each successive title got progressively worse reviews.

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