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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
Thinking about it, I may have played a roguelike prior to ADOM. Although it wasn't entirely randomly generated and it may not have had any kind of stat progression. I think it was called castle, and this was about fifteen years back on my Grandad's old 286.
Mojo_Jojo on
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I liked Castle of the Winds, as my first RogueLike. Even having tiny and terrible graphics helps make it a bit more understandable to me what is what. Although, I did play through and hit a dead end on the first dungeon. Just no more stairs down. Don't know if that's a bug. And it was on level 2, when wikipedia says the first dungeon is 4 levels.
Perhaps you're missing a secret passage somewhere? I don't think the game will let a level be uncompletable.
Yeah, there's a secret passage somewhere. Look at the level map, and search around any blank areas.
Careful with MUDs! They can get very very addicting fast. You're in this huge world, with other very devoted RP players, you'll be amazed how long you'll read text into the night!
Some of my best gaming memories come from a MUD I played pretty heavily. Join a guild as a monk, had to do training to earn belts, real emotional highs and lows, it was a blast! Even fishing was fun! I couldn't believe how connected I felt to the guild and my character. I recall getting very upset for failing a belt test and getting myself sloshed. I worked my way down an alley into a darker corner and drank. The whole guild(were talkin like 10 people, nothing huge) came out looking for me. It was pretty cool feeling.
There wasn't much of a story I was aware of, mostly RPing.
Half-hearted thirding on Achaea. It's not even in "happily ever after" mode, but rather, it's in "okay, now I'm just getting tired of your face" mode. That said, it IS the most developed one out there. You just gotta watch out for PKers, since combat is way more complex than in non-IR MUDs. Also, while you may choose race, class, and house based on fun, be forewarned of people telling you straight up that your choices aren't optimal for whatever reason.
And one last thing. If you ever venture onto their forums, steer clear of the combat and rants sections. These folks have nothing better to do than program zmud into finding more efficient and more esoteric ways of killing you, and if you somehow manage to beat them or flee, you will be hounded till the endtimes. Your skills will be ranted on as being cheap and unfair, no matter what class you are (monk axekick! bard Death From Above! sentinel axethrow!).
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
One thing the OP should realize is that any roguelike is going to be, well, like Rogue. As in, some degree of randomness, emphasis on dungeon crawling, short on story. If it was different it, well, it wouldn't be "rogue-like."
That said, I'd say just get a feel for some of the RL out there to see what elements you prefer. Play NetHack because it's a staple that everyone should play at least a few times (enough times to get what's going on, even if you use a guide). Play Castle of the Winds. Try out ADOM. And then see what elements you like or dislike.
The few times I've ventured into MUDs I didn't really enjoy myself, due to the fact that most MUDs become very clique-y and many of the elements of the stories will involve in-jokes that require a fair amount of social interaction with the "main group" of the mud. There's a lot you can do in a MUD -- basically, they're like MMORPGs without the graphics, and lots more options and usually free. But it's easy to get sucked in or completely dislike them due to their dominant qualities.
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
i survived my first winter and had absolutely no clue what i was doing...granted i had like 2 or 3 dwarfs left...but if you're willing to work a bit, DF's commands grow on you very quickly, i think.
No better place to start than with the game they're all built off of. Admittedly, the site's a bit out of date, but it's not like the game is the most difficult thing to find on the net.
Could also try some of it's early incarnates. I still have a special place in my heart for Moria
Try Powder. I've been playing this non stop on the DS. I'm a fan of really simple graphics instead of ascii characters. It's insane how much fun I've been having with this little roguelike over some of the commercial games I've purchased. I basically stopped playing Etrian Oddessy for this game.
Try Powder. I've been playing this non stop on the DS. I'm a fan of really simple graphics instead of ascii characters. It's insane how much fun I've been having with this little roguelike over some of the commercial games I've purchased. I basically stopped playing Etrian Oddessy for this game.
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
But what I'm saying is at least I KNEW I had to survive the first winter somehow. And I of course knew that survival was the overall long term goal. And the cool thing about Dwarf Fortress is that you get better and better at it every time you start a new fortress. And when you fail it isn't usually just because of random shitty luck.
In a lot of roguelikes it's difficult to really know what the hell the long term goal is. All I know is I start off in a dungeon and I got to kill some guys until I die. And no matter how many times I die I never learn anything from it, because I just die as a result of some bad rolls or a trap or some douche monster.
Casket on
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
But what I'm saying is at least I KNEW I had to survive the first winter somehow. And I of course knew that survival was the overall long term goal. And the cool thing about Dwarf Fortress is that you get better and better at it every time you start a new fortress. And when you fail it isn't usually just because of random shitty luck.
In a lot of roguelikes it's difficult to really know what the hell the long term goal is. All I know is I start off in a dungeon and I got to kill some guys until I die. And no matter how many times I die I never learn anything from it, because I just die as a result of some bad rolls or a trap or some douche monster.
That is what roguelikes are about, although you should be learning each time time you die. It's not that often it is just random luck of the dice, usually it was a poorly thought out action on your behalf.
Mojo_Jojo on
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
But what I'm saying is at least I KNEW I had to survive the first winter somehow. And I of course knew that survival was the overall long term goal. And the cool thing about Dwarf Fortress is that you get better and better at it every time you start a new fortress. And when you fail it isn't usually just because of random shitty luck.
In a lot of roguelikes it's difficult to really know what the hell the long term goal is. All I know is I start off in a dungeon and I got to kill some guys until I die. And no matter how many times I die I never learn anything from it, because I just die as a result of some bad rolls or a trap or some douche monster.
The long terms goals are quite obvious: make it to the bottom. Yes, it's true that you're no doubt going to rely on luck a lot of the time, but it's bunk that you don't learn anything from it.
Depends on the Roguelike. There are some you can learn a lot as you play.
Like, Don't go past level dungeon level 10 without being immune to paralysis.
Don't go past 15 without being able to see invisible.
Don't go past 20 without having all 4 elemental resistances.
Don't go past 30 without max stats.
If you see a lowercase c, run like fucking hell (or tame it).
This is hardly a Rogue-Like for a beginner. Hell, it's hard to swallow for those of us who are used to RLs. I'd stay away from DF until you have a decent understanding of Rogue-Like interfaces and commands.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
But what I'm saying is at least I KNEW I had to survive the first winter somehow. And I of course knew that survival was the overall long term goal. And the cool thing about Dwarf Fortress is that you get better and better at it every time you start a new fortress. And when you fail it isn't usually just because of random shitty luck.
In a lot of roguelikes it's difficult to really know what the hell the long term goal is. All I know is I start off in a dungeon and I got to kill some guys until I die. And no matter how many times I die I never learn anything from it, because I just die as a result of some bad rolls or a trap or some douche monster.
The long terms goals are quite obvious: make it to the bottom. Yes, it's true that you're no doubt going to rely on luck a lot of the time, but it's bunk that you don't learn anything from it.
He might be comparing to Nethack, which I think is the most inaccessible Roguelike ever. I could see someone jumping into, say, Angband and figuring out how to win, but beating Nethack seems moderately unlikely without having some FAQs bookmarked.
He might be comparing to Nethack, which I think is the most inaccessible Roguelike ever. I could see someone jumping into, say, Angband and figuring out how to win, but beating Nethack seems moderately unlikely without having some FAQs bookmarked.
Yea.
Also I think a lot of roguelikes are unfriendly to beginners because they do a shitty job of conveying emotion. Dwarf Fortress doesn't. You care about those little dwarves and their plight. You see them burrying their dead dogs or sleeping in their rooms or looking at a waterfall and stuff. I haven't played any other roguelike that makes me give a shit about anyone except myself. Maybe that is why I fail?
No, I fail because I wasn't able to see invisibles past level 15.
He might be comparing to Nethack, which I think is the most inaccessible Roguelike ever. I could see someone jumping into, say, Angband and figuring out how to win, but beating Nethack seems moderately unlikely without having some FAQs bookmarked.
Many Nethack players love Nethack because of its huge library of endlessly clever and surprising behavior. I hate Nethack because Nethack mostly teaches you the content of this library through instant death.
(The last time I played Nethack, I was temporarily blinded by eating rotten food, and I happened to stumble across a square on which I had killed a chickatrice a few turns ago. "You try to feel what is lying here on the ground" ... instant death by stoning. Haven't tried again since.)
If story isn't one of your priorities, I maintain that Crawl is the best roguelike out there: despite its ferocious infant mortality rate, it does the best job of any roguelike I've played of continuously presenting you with interesting and new tactical problems. The action is too fast and your resources are too limited to prepare obsessively for every possible threat as an Angband player can; you do what you can and then throw yourself into the fray. It's sometimes unfair, but Crawl is a short enough game that occasional unfairness is not so bad.
Another thumbs up for Crawl. Although Rogue was my first Roguelike (with NetHack shortly following), Crawl is the one I've been playing recently. It's so short and skill-based, it almost feels like an arcade game.
It's very fun, even though you'll die a lot. Don't think any of my characters have survived past level four. Last time I got down that far, some sort of Orcish army comprised of hundreds of units appeared and chased me halfway across the level. Then some sort of boss popped up and got me down to like one HP. As I tried to flee, a low level snake bit me.
Just remember, if you're about to die, "Destroyed by Jessica" looks much more impressive on the record than "Killed by a snake"
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Yeah, there's a secret passage somewhere. Look at the level map, and search around any blank areas.
Half-hearted thirding on Achaea. It's not even in "happily ever after" mode, but rather, it's in "okay, now I'm just getting tired of your face" mode. That said, it IS the most developed one out there. You just gotta watch out for PKers, since combat is way more complex than in non-IR MUDs. Also, while you may choose race, class, and house based on fun, be forewarned of people telling you straight up that your choices aren't optimal for whatever reason.
And one last thing. If you ever venture onto their forums, steer clear of the combat and rants sections. These folks have nothing better to do than program zmud into finding more efficient and more esoteric ways of killing you, and if you somehow manage to beat them or flee, you will be hounded till the endtimes. Your skills will be ranted on as being cheap and unfair, no matter what class you are (monk axekick! bard Death From Above! sentinel axethrow!).
Just a warning.
I'll have to knock this down a peg.
Dwarf-Fortress was my first roguelike and it CAN be good for a beginner. While it has a tough interface, you do not have to worry about one single character dying forever and starting completely over, you can use custom object graphics to make it easier to identify stuff, the game does not run in a step by step "turn based" way by default, and you are never really unsure of what it is that you have to do next.
Combat also doesn't consist of pushing your character in the direction of an attacker (in fortress mode). You can build traps and shit, and assign guys to fight. I would love it if there was a mode where you can just wander away from the mountain with a group of adventurer dwarves and you guided them through dungeons and stuff.
That said, I'd say just get a feel for some of the RL out there to see what elements you prefer. Play NetHack because it's a staple that everyone should play at least a few times (enough times to get what's going on, even if you use a guide). Play Castle of the Winds. Try out ADOM. And then see what elements you like or dislike.
The few times I've ventured into MUDs I didn't really enjoy myself, due to the fact that most MUDs become very clique-y and many of the elements of the stories will involve in-jokes that require a fair amount of social interaction with the "main group" of the mud. There's a lot you can do in a MUD -- basically, they're like MMORPGs without the graphics, and lots more options and usually free. But it's easy to get sucked in or completely dislike them due to their dominant qualities.
I'm not sure how realtime makes anything easier. That means you actually have to know the commands, and be able to react to the situation in a split second. As for never being unsure as to what to do next, what are you talking about? You know how long it takes to survive your first winter, because you don't know what to do?
i survived my first winter and had absolutely no clue what i was doing...granted i had like 2 or 3 dwarfs left...but if you're willing to work a bit, DF's commands grow on you very quickly, i think.
Could also try some of it's early incarnates. I still have a special place in my heart for Moria
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Powder??
But what I'm saying is at least I KNEW I had to survive the first winter somehow. And I of course knew that survival was the overall long term goal. And the cool thing about Dwarf Fortress is that you get better and better at it every time you start a new fortress. And when you fail it isn't usually just because of random shitty luck.
In a lot of roguelikes it's difficult to really know what the hell the long term goal is. All I know is I start off in a dungeon and I got to kill some guys until I die. And no matter how many times I die I never learn anything from it, because I just die as a result of some bad rolls or a trap or some douche monster.
The long terms goals are quite obvious: make it to the bottom. Yes, it's true that you're no doubt going to rely on luck a lot of the time, but it's bunk that you don't learn anything from it.
Like, Don't go past level dungeon level 10 without being immune to paralysis.
Don't go past 15 without being able to see invisible.
Don't go past 20 without having all 4 elemental resistances.
Don't go past 30 without max stats.
If you see a lowercase c, run like fucking hell (or tame it).
Etc etc.
Yea.
Also I think a lot of roguelikes are unfriendly to beginners because they do a shitty job of conveying emotion. Dwarf Fortress doesn't. You care about those little dwarves and their plight. You see them burrying their dead dogs or sleeping in their rooms or looking at a waterfall and stuff. I haven't played any other roguelike that makes me give a shit about anyone except myself. Maybe that is why I fail?
No, I fail because I wasn't able to see invisibles past level 15.
Many Nethack players love Nethack because of its huge library of endlessly clever and surprising behavior. I hate Nethack because Nethack mostly teaches you the content of this library through instant death.
(The last time I played Nethack, I was temporarily blinded by eating rotten food, and I happened to stumble across a square on which I had killed a chickatrice a few turns ago. "You try to feel what is lying here on the ground" ... instant death by stoning. Haven't tried again since.)
If story isn't one of your priorities, I maintain that Crawl is the best roguelike out there: despite its ferocious infant mortality rate, it does the best job of any roguelike I've played of continuously presenting you with interesting and new tactical problems. The action is too fast and your resources are too limited to prepare obsessively for every possible threat as an Angband player can; you do what you can and then throw yourself into the fray. It's sometimes unfair, but Crawl is a short enough game that occasional unfairness is not so bad.
Something Awful has a highly informative thread about it (Is that ok? Can I link to it here?), and a pretty graphical version with the fun, cutting edge stuff from Stone Soup compiled in.
It's very fun, even though you'll die a lot. Don't think any of my characters have survived past level four. Last time I got down that far, some sort of Orcish army comprised of hundreds of units appeared and chased me halfway across the level. Then some sort of boss popped up and got me down to like one HP. As I tried to flee, a low level snake bit me.
Just remember, if you're about to die, "Destroyed by Jessica" looks much more impressive on the record than "Killed by a snake"