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"The Pick-Up Artist": Teaching Guys How to Seduce Womenz!
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I've had women comment on my nails. They do notice.
I've had good results running game and I've had good results when I wasn't doing anything. Just discounting it as crap is dumb which is what I'm telling you.
So would you call 'white supermacists' their own term, 'pure blooded'? Or 'holocaust deniers' the 'enlightened' instead? Because those are the terms they use inside their respective cultures. If you agree with the title, then you start using it to refer to them. If not, please use something a little more accurate to describe what these people do.
I don't see any 'art' in what these people are doing, personally.
While I think that in any interaction, personality wins out over looks, taking pride in your appearance can send messages to certain types of people that value that sort of thing, and can give you a leg up.
You managed to Godwin a thread about meeting women. That takes some skill.
I don't find anything offensive in the title, so I will use it. It helps, for sake of clarity, that we all use the same title to refer to the same thing. Since PUA seems to be the accepted nomenclature, then I'm going to continue to use it.
I'm not all that concerned with what you use, since you really don't seem to have much of a clue about the subject, so most of what you say would only be slightly relevant, even if I understood your terminology perfectly.
That to me seems like the glaring flaw in the PUA system.
Basically, "meet as many women as you can, dont get too hung up about getting rejected" is awesome advice, if you follow that to heart you will get laid sooner or later.
Its such great advice that it makes the idea of any kind of "PUA system" pretty worthless, all the "Do this, then this, then look for IOI's then hit her with a neg ect ect" is questionable, because at the end of the day as long as you get someone out of the house and start talking to women their chances of getting laid have already increased exponentially. It doesent say anything as to how well the system works.
Its like those stories where the hero gets an ancient talismen of power and beats the badguys and it turns out the talismen did nothing and the power was inside them all along.
Also if you ever see any kind of interview with Mystery he is an utter charisma vacuum.
What about discounting it as needlessly cynical manipulation and similiar to the ladder theory, if the ladder theory wasn't actually a joke.
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]
Now, replace "game" with "rock" and "keeping tigers away" with "getting women".
I probably couldn't find a link on this to save my life, but I don't think it's entirely bullshit.
It's manipulation if you want it to be. I don't like the idea of being disingenious which is why I've only run ring finger three times. I guess I am a bad human being for doing that and I'd feel worse about it if the two successes I've had weren't giving me positive feedback after running it.
I don't do negs. I hate the idea of deliberately taking away someone's good time feeling.
I definitly think there are people that get interested in this for the wrong reason (manipulation, getting their notches on the bedpost up) and I don't agree with that. I think of it as leveling the playing field.
There's honestly not that much to get, Zonky. These people try and codify the behaviour used to approach and talk to people of the opposite gender, in order to reduce the chances of failure, and increase their chances of 'initimate contact', whatever that might be. Then they pass it on to other men who want to meet women but for various reasons are unsuccessful.
People do it in different ways. I mean, it is by definition the act of picking up women. Whether you do that with canned lines or good conversation, it's all game. I'm more of a natural than anything else, and I have no problem picking up women while wearing like jeans and an undershirt and having not shaved in 4 days, but it's still game.
as far as the nails thing goes: Its a crutch for him. He doesn't have that inner self-confidence needed to throw game no matter what, so going that extra mile as far as looks goes helps him out with it.
And how is this bad? I'm not following you.
That's a pretty awesome summary. Of course, being able to give a very generic high level summary of a topic doesn't mean that you can intelligently debate the nuances of it, which you have proven remarkably well.
As far as "Game" goes, whatever man. If it works for people, good for them, I guess. Honestly I prefer just muddling through like the idiot I usually am. My failures are often spectacular and hilarious, and my successes (few though they may be) are wild adventures where I never know what's coming around the corner. It makes dealing with people exciting. Sure, I may not have very many notches on my belt or whatever, but at least I'm almost always actually enjoying myself, instead of going through a bunch of motions for some eventual gratification down the line.
Conversation is already an exercise in manipulation. I don't think it's horrible to make use of body language and common psychological tricks, as long as your aims are not in themselves horrible.
I guess I just never realized it had such a steep pitch.
Dude nails were just an example of something I do. My self confidance was down until a month ago because of a breakup I had in February. I've since recovered and been normal, but having nice nails is a boost to my confidence. I can throw game normally, but having nice nails helps. I guess what I'm saying is don't paint me as pathetic :P.
You would pick out my choice of words. I would expect nothing less from you.
if a girl is interested in me, i don't want her to be interested in some artificial version of me, i want her to be interested in the real me.
so i don't have any "game" or whatever. if a girl isn't interested in the real me, then she's probably not going to be interested in the game throwing me for much longer than she would normally anyways.
That is some deep shit right there.
Yeah, but I'm not really interested in trading pick-up tips with you, nor am I particularly interested in debating the nuances of 'running ring finger' or 'negging', because even at a high level it's still creepy and lacks every sort of sincerity. The further you delve into the details of it, the less appealing and more appalling this shit becomes.
For most of us, it's not. However, in Fellhand's case...
I'm a brutally honest person. Including with girls, this does not preclude me from throwing game. Mind you, it would for someone like Mystery - the mans whole existence is smoke and mirrors, but you're basically restricting the definition of game to something that it isn't.
I was trying to think of a way to phrase it while working on this hard drive, but I should have said I think it helps males compete with other males and at the same time when talking to a woman there isn't a huge disparity of power in the conversation because the guy is nervous or self defeating.
You want to scar and jar open any lock you come across rather than be provided easy access to a single lock?
O_o
I am in every way glad that we're both uninterested in discussing pickup tips. Discussing the morality behind pickup tips might be interesting. But you've got to have more than a strawman understanding of how it works in order to do that.
You want to fuck lots of chicks rather then just one?
Yeah, not so weird now eh.
ITT we discuss how Zonkytonkman is a serial rapist
I'm sorry, is there some fundamental tenent behind this that I missed?
I thought it apparent that that post was dripping in sarcasm.
Now, at the moment, I happen to be really uninterested in long term relationships, but that's another matter.
i barely even get the definition of "game."
if it means talking to a girl in such a way that you're trying to impress a girl while still being honest, well shit, every guy does that.
if it means stupid "rules" and "techniques" like "compliment her on her pretty hair. then say her breath stinks. then ask for her phone number," then fuck it. that's dishonest and retarded.
I guess if that's what you're into. I can't stand it, though, and the problem I have with stuff like what's in the OP is that it's being taught to guys that being a PUA is the "right" thing to do. As though somehow this is what guys are supposed to be and it's bullshit and does nothign other than to further widen the rift between men and women.
All this does is turn women into people who distrust men, and as someone who's dated a fair amount I can safely say that I've developed quite the hate for PUAs simply due to the fact that so many women simply assume I'm "just like all the others".
-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
The solution to that is to stop being so nervous and self defeating, not to mask your inadequacies with rote memorization and playing games. If the girl isn't that interested in you, when compared to the other males, there might be a good reason for it. Not everyone is compatible with everyone else, and trying to force the situation or hide it probably isn't the best idea. But hey, what would I know. I'm more interested in relationships that might involve sex than I am in sex which might involve a relationship.
That one that every guy does. The level of your game is defined by how good your results are. So somebody with no game cant pick up women worth shit. A guy with great game can bring home any girl in the bar.
Period. Using lines and whatnot is one way, but there are lots of other ways.
Because it's not at all relevant to a discussion of techniques used to make manipulating women into ones bed and/or regarding the picking up of random chicks to be a game that you would refer to them as "successes", synonymous with "victories" and/or "conquests". I just thought it was funny is all.
This statement seems to indicate that you don't really know much about what these guys are into. That, along with your apparent hostility makes me believe that you're not really interested in doing anything other than bashing a strawman of what "pick up artists" actually do. If you've got something insightful to add, then please, accept my apology and be my guest.